James McGeachie Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 The Bow and Arrow Demo was pretty much exactly the same as how it was done 2 hours before in the Wii Sports Resort demo though...apart from the Sony one made the bow horizontal The bow and arrow one sadly had one big advantage over Wii Sports Resort. As Sony's one was using 2 "wands" they both had the benefits of the same technology and how far you pulled back with one wand determined the tension on the string and therefore the speed and height of the shot. I don't think Wii Sports Resort has that due to the nunchuk sadly.
Will Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 To be fair this is by far the best of the three motion controllers. Taking the key bits of the other two and using them for (actually working) prototype games. Looking at the demo's they were showing I don't think they actually intended to show it off at E3, but after seeing Natal thought they may as well as it blows it away in terms of right nowavailable applications. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this has already been shown to 3rd parties and there will be a few games available from both Sony and others next year when it launches.
Serebii Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 The thing what people are forgetting is that you have what is similar to WiiMotionPlus but with the power of the PS3 behind you (or 360 for that matter). It is possible to have ridiculously accurate gameplay. For example did you see the demo where he was using the sword and shield and he used the sword to lift up the enemies head from the chin, then slashed him to the ground? Things that accurate couldn't really be done on the Wii. Same for the physics when the enemies got a arrow to there leg and fell over. The Wii is fully capable of that kind of gameplay
Choze Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Yeah i thought it was going to be silly next to motionplus and Natal at first. But they managed to top them both. Would love to see more on it later. Anyone noticed how it looks similar to the leaked patent pictures a long time ago?
McPhee Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Ah, but thats only for the IR features not for the 1:1 on Wii Motion Plus. While this one has motion sensing technology in it, they said in the conference that it has to be seen. There is a difference between the two. Motion Plus tracks the change in location of the Wiimote whereas Sony's system tracks the location of the two sticks. Basically the PS3 will know where these controllers actually are in the room whereas the Wii only knows where Motion Plus is relative to where it was. That and Sony have two sticks to Nintendo's one. I see a 'Nunchuck+' coming
BeerMonkey Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 if ninty added a motion sensor to the nunchuck as mcphee said lo and behold you got playstations "idea". i find it funny how some people suggest that the playstation one is the best...its just a wiimote..but two of them. Wiimotionplus can do everything 1 playstation "wand" can do when the guy was writing and moving it around etc.
Ganepark32 Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) What a surprise. All the fanboys are trying to s**t all over the Wiimote and MotionPlus. Get a grip would you. For the record, Sony's system only tracks the little ball at the top of the casing. I say casing and not motion controller because all the work is being done by the camera and apart from some buttons, the thing really is just a case to house those. So basically, it is more akin to Microsoft's Natal than Nintendo's Wiimote. Everyone saying that it's better than the Wiimote with motionplus for whatever reason, there are no specifics to the thing as it's a WIP so cool it. @ Mcphee - You can't say that the PS3 will detect the sticks in terms of where they are in the room because as far as I'm aware the PS3 Eye is just a bog standard camera and not truly capable of detecting full 3d and so therefore from that, it won't be able to do what you say unless Sony bring out another camera that can do that. I'm not trying to pick holes in Sony's controller (but believe me it's hard not to given that it's still a WIP) but I feel that it is completely unnecessary for the console because it's not going to bring anything new that can't be done elsewhere. All it'll do is offer that same thing with HD graphics which isn't going to be a pull for the casual gamers, if they have a PS3 which is unlikely. The Wiimote started the motion thing in gaming and Microsoft's Natal seems to be the most obvious advancement of the idea whereas this seems like a starting point that was hit back in October 2005. Personally, I feel they should ditch it. And to whoever said it, the Motionplus can and does determine the tension and speed of the arrow in Wii Sports Resort based on how far back you pull, effectively doing everything that was done at Sony's conference. Edited June 3, 2009 by Ganepark32
Aimless Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 If you consider the posts in here fanboyism I wonder if you've so much as dipped a toe in the wider cesspool of the internet. I'm not sure why people feel the need to be defensive. The tech Sony showed was at least on par or better than Nintendo's, I'm not sure how you could disagree with that. I would be very, very surprised if it meets a fraction of the success of the Wii for various reasons, but I thought it was a good demonstration despite clearly being rather cobbled together — the Natal showing most likely forced Sony's hand. We probably won't hear any more about this controller for a while now, but just because we don't have a final retail product in our hands doesn't mean we can't discuss what was shown. Personally I'm interested to find out more about the technological side of things. The patents from a few months ago had an ultrasonic element and if that's still the case the controller would have three methods of positioning: visual, sonic, and kinetic.
dwarf Posted June 3, 2009 Author Posted June 3, 2009 I'm not trying to pick holes in Sony's controller (but believe me it's hard not to given that it's still a WIP) but I feel that it is completely unnecessary for the console because it's not going to bring anything new that can't be done elsewhere. I'm sorry but that is bullshit. Sony and it's 2nd/3rd party developers have actually developed a lot of unique games, and this can help those companies. Why should the PS3 not have them?
Shino Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 The Eyetoy engineers always did great tech demos, way more impressive than Nintendo. But the truth is, if a game requires two light batons, you can use two wiimotes, obviously the nunchuck+ will be the next step as it allows 4 players instead of 2 with 4 wiimotes. I want to see what happens to multiplayer games with this tech. GanePark, I believe this batons also have some motion sensing stuff inside them, you can't detect pitch with just a light source.
McPhee Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 @ Mcphee - You can't say that the PS3 will detect the sticks in terms of where they are in the room because as far as I'm aware the PS3 Eye is just a bog standard camera and not truly capable of detecting full 3d and so therefore from that, it won't be able to do what you say unless Sony bring out another camera that can do that. It uses a bog standard camera, yes. Now what happens if we move an object of set size closer to the camera? It looks bigger. What happens if we move it away from the camera? It looks smaller. Unless i'm mistaken this is how Sony's system judges distance. Combine that with vertical and horizontal position and we have full 3D mapping of the unit's position. It's a fool-proof system that has one single downside; you need line of sight between the camera and the wands. This is where the Wiimote wins out (barring pointer functionality, which has the same disadvantage).
Ellmeister Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I still wonder what will happen when your sword gets blocked.... how will the remote react then because surely everytime it slashes it has to go through something otherwise it will be out of place?
Aimless Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 I still wonder what will happen when your sword gets blocked.... how will the remote react then because surely everytime it slashes it has to go through something otherwise it will be out of place? That's more of a software thing, just like how a character stops moving forward even if you're pressing the analogue stick into a wall. You can't really have any feedback via the hardware other than rumble, so the pressure is on the developer to find the best solution to their specific problem. In your example that would probably be taking control away from the player for a moment but making it very clear that is what's happening, a bit like if you're thrown in a fighting game. It's the same problem that all motion controllers face, from Wiimote to Natal: lack of physical feedback. I can't see there being a solution appearing any time soon, unless you really want to play games in some sort of mechanised bodysuit.
Choze Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Looks like we may even get cross Wii and PS3 development. http://www.developmag.com/news/32075/Sony-adds-LiveMove-2-to-PS3-SDK AiLive – company which co-developed the Wii MotionPlus together with Nintendo – will make its LiveMove 2 motion recognition software available for free to all licensed PS3 developers thanks to a new deal with Sony Computer Entertainment.
Zechs Merquise Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 What a surprise. All the fanboys are trying to s**t all over the Wiimote and MotionPlus. Get a grip would you. For the record, Sony's system only tracks the little ball at the top of the casing. I say casing and not motion controller because all the work is being done by the camera and apart from some buttons, the thing really is just a case to house those. So basically, it is more akin to Microsoft's Natal than Nintendo's Wiimote. Everyone saying that it's better than the Wiimote with motionplus for whatever reason, there are no specifics to the thing as it's a WIP so cool it. @ Mcphee - You can't say that the PS3 will detect the sticks in terms of where they are in the room because as far as I'm aware the PS3 Eye is just a bog standard camera and not truly capable of detecting full 3d and so therefore from that, it won't be able to do what you say unless Sony bring out another camera that can do that. I'm not trying to pick holes in Sony's controller (but believe me it's hard not to given that it's still a WIP) but I feel that it is completely unnecessary for the console because it's not going to bring anything new that can't be done elsewhere. All it'll do is offer that same thing with HD graphics which isn't going to be a pull for the casual gamers, if they have a PS3 which is unlikely. The Wiimote started the motion thing in gaming and Microsoft's Natal seems to be the most obvious advancement of the idea whereas this seems like a starting point that was hit back in October 2005. Personally, I feel they should ditch it. And to whoever said it, the Motionplus can and does determine the tension and speed of the arrow in Wii Sports Resort based on how far back you pull, effectively doing everything that was done at Sony's conference. Too right. This PS3 wand is basically just piggy backing on Nintendo's idea. Ultimately i highly doubt it will have any real impact as it is not the standard control set up, leaving it with a HUGE disadvantage. What's more if it was used in games like the Wii remote it would make online matches idiotic as no one with a standard pad would be able to compete against anyone in an FPS using the wand.
dwarf Posted June 3, 2009 Author Posted June 3, 2009 Those 'issues' are so trivial Zechs. At the end of the day, as someone else has said, why should Sony not use this? If you're bitter that the PS3 has this and it looks decent just say it aloud instead of hinting it. Knocking it before it even has a proper reveal...
Charlie Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Wow.This is the most shameless clone of all time. It's a black Wiimote with a lightbulb on top! Of course, it did seem to be very accurate, but I think the Wiimote will be as well with the WM+. I hope someone has had the sense to comment on this already but I don't have time to read through the rest of the thread.. "shamless cloning" of ideas is called benchmarking. It's a standard thing for businesses to do and as you can see here generally what happens is they improve on the original product and make something which is even better. It's just because you're all Nintendo fans at heart you can't see past that properly because it's happened over and over with Nintendo. Every time Nintendo have come up with a great innovation, Joystick, Wiimote etc, someone comes up with something better. It's good for the industry.
dwarf Posted June 3, 2009 Author Posted June 3, 2009 Look, if Nintendo came out with an amazing graphics system that topped the other consoles I'd take my hat off to them, maybe even rejoice. If Sony does the Nintendo fans sneer and can't swallow their own pride (as if there is pride in being with a company) and say that something looks good. Shino and Zechs I'm talking to you, and you're bound to deny it, but it's just so blatant.
Shino Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Look, if Nintendo came out with an amazing graphics system that topped the other consoles I'd take my hat off to them, maybe even rejoice. If Sony does the Nintendo fans sneer and can't swallow their own pride (as if there is pride in being with a company) and say that something looks good. Shino and Zechs I'm talking to you, and you're bound to deny it, but it's just so blatant. I never denied my fanboyish ways. But I never have a problem admitting I like a game from the competition. And graphical improvement is hardly innovative.
dwarf Posted June 3, 2009 Author Posted June 3, 2009 Well graphics were just a bad example (but relevant because it isn't what Nintendo are excelling in atm) but if I like the look of something they do I will say it and have said it. You want to not like something despite your best interests. You feel like you need to tell everyone that you aren't impressed despite the euphoria that the conference caused. It was unanimous that the conference was funny, well presented and layed back. For example when you saw Trico or Guardian whatsitsface you at first said it looks good but then followed by making it sound dumb... It's exasperating.
Shino Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Well graphics were just a bad example (but relevant because it isn't what Nintendo are excelling in atm) but if I like the look of something they do I will say it and have said it. You want to not like something despite your best interests. You feel like you need to tell everyone that you aren't impressed despite the euphoria that the conference caused.It was unanimous that the conference was funny, well presented and layed back. For example when you saw Trico or Guardian whatsitsface you at first said it looks good but then followed by making it sound dumb... It's exasperating. What euphoria?! They talked 1 hour about Uncharted and then a lot about MAG, talked about the PSP Go which quite frankly is the same system it was before that plays the same home console games you don't want on a portable, and then it picked up with the motion sensing, Trico, and GoW3. Trico would have been awesome had it not been a leaked footage and that was basically the big problem with Sony's conference, there was barely anything surprising, you knew most of the games, even the trailers.
Chris the great Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) And graphical improvement is hardly innovative. too true, however, a more powerfull amchine does allow more to be done, which puts less constraints on creative vision. just to clarify, ive been a nintendo fan (boardline fanboy) since the snes, and up to last year. im by no means a sony fanboy just because i like the ps3 more then the wii. i just happen to think, from the footage ive seen, that the sony motion system looks more competent then the origional wiimote, better then what ive seen of the wii motion plus. i also think that the natal from microsoft looks interesting, certainly more advanced cameras then sony, but the lack of any handset made it hard to tell how it'l be with games. what i liked about sony's was that it seemed to have the strengths of both and less of the weakneses. the demonstration itself was badly done, i think it was probebly always a backup thing, to be shown if microsoft revealed motion stuff, but in terms of how it all geled, particularly when using the sword and the arrows, it beat microsoft in a sheer actualy application sense, and it beats nintendo due to the amount of response its capable of. going on one knee to fire an arrow for example, havent see that on the motion plus yet. only time will tell how it'l go. could be that it dosent get any good games, but i'll keep an eye on it. What euphoria?! They talked 1 hour about Uncharted and then a lot about MAG, talked about the PSP Go which quite frankly is the same system it was before that plays the same home console games you don't want on a portable, and then it picked up with the motion sensing, Trico, and GoW3. totaly ignoring the agent, ff14, metal gear, that racing one and GT. also, uncharted and MAG both got alot of attention cos they looked you know, impressive. i wanted to know about uncharted, its a great looking game. MAG is somthing im interested in. sony did what i wanted there Trico would have been awesome had it not been a leaked footage and that was basically the big problem with Sony's conference, there was barely anything surprising, you knew most of the games, even the trailers. trico footage was 18 months old, the last guardian that was shown was hugely graphicaly enhanced, and contaied extra footage not in the leaked trailer. also, the agent was supprise, that racing one i didnt supprise, motion was a supprise. and dont forget ff14. litteraly no one in the audience knew what was going on. dont know what sony confrence you watched, but it blew microsoft and nintendo's out the water, showed fans what they wanted to see, gave us supprised and was actualy well presented and funny in places. Edited June 3, 2009 by Chris the great
dwarf Posted June 3, 2009 Author Posted June 3, 2009 Who cares if you know most of the games before the conference? The fact is that the trailers looked sublime, the motion controls were a massive surprise and well demoed, 2 unheard of exclusives were shown (FF14, Modracers), and there were tonnes of games that little was known about that were revealed further. The fact that many Wii owners from the Wii board were convinced that they needed a PS3 shows that the conference was a hit.
Zechs Merquise Posted June 3, 2009 Posted June 3, 2009 Those 'issues' are so trivial Zechs. At the end of the day, as someone else has said, why should Sony not use this? If you're bitter that the PS3 has this and it looks decent just say it aloud instead of hinting it. Knocking it before it even has a proper reveal... No, I'm not bitter at all. In a way it's actually great news as it just goes to show how right Nintendo got it with the remote. However I stand by earlier stance - this will not alter the course of this generation of games as it's not the standard input for the system.
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