What was 'wrong' with Twilight Princess?

[Zero]

The fish in the Zora Temple is easy as pie.

 

I can't believe you just said that. I still don't know how you are meant to hit it.

 

The last boss, Majora, was hard without the Fierce Deity mask.

[...]

I can't believe you just said that. I still don't know how you are meant to hit it.

 

The last boss, Mahora, was hard without the Fierce Deity mask.

 

Hit it with the Link's Zora fangs (preferably before he hits the central platform where you are standing or it will damage you and make you fall in the water). This will stun it, now just jump in the water, swim up to it and buzz it with Zora Link's electric attack. Do this 3 times and you're done.

 

 

 

 

As for Majora, I used to think that too, until I tried it. you see the first time I completed the game, I completed it with all masks, so I had the Fierce Deity Mask and used it on MM. it was easy. And then I never really tried beating the game without the Fierce Deity Mask, for a long time. Until one day, I did try it, and I actually found the MM boss easy, all stages.

 

Majora's Mask is a game that takes its toll in mental stress provided by its time limit, even with the time slowed down, not in difficulty of its bosses.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Majora's Mask seperates the men from the boys. Infact, you haven't truely lost your virginity until you finish that game.

 

My favourite Zelda. Infact, I may go off to play some of it now. Hoo haaaaar.

 

By the way, there's nothing 'wrong' with Twilight Princess. It's a good Zelda. Maybe not the best, but it's still very, very good. Even if it isn't the best Zelda, it's like saying Return of the Jedi isn't the best Star Wars film. It doesn't mean its bad.

 

I love it.

[darksnowman]

Majora's Mask isn't impossible to beat without the Fierce Deity mask but it sure does help. First time I did it was without all masks and it was a test alright. What a game. Zelda games are so hard to separate!

[Chris the great]

see, my problem with the bosses in mm was they were kinda dull, not the fight itself but the design on them felt slightly lacking, like EA had done them, not terrible, just not breath taking.

 

the water temple boss in tp was epic, really felt like a monster to slay, against all odds, made link seem more of a hero too me.

[Sheikah]

Majora's Mask seperates the men from the boys. Infact, you haven't truely lost your virginity until you finish that game.

 

My favourite Zelda. Infact, I may go off to play some of it now. Hoo haaaaar.

 

By the way, there's nothing 'wrong' with Twilight Princess. It's a good Zelda. Maybe not the best, but it's still very, very good. Even if it isn't the best Zelda, it's like saying Return of the Jedi isn't the best Star Wars film. It doesn't mean its bad.

 

I love it.

 

Yeh, MM is the best. The sidequests and the whole time system made it very interesting (knowing person X would be at a certain place at a set time - quite original).

 

People who said the time system was hard....they weren't doing it right! Limit yourself to only starting a dungeon once you have obtained the melody to get there and have reset to the first day and slowed time. It's really, really hard not to complete a dungeon in that time. Such a cracking game.

[Hellfire]

MM was amazing, a fantastic concept, very very original, yet a lot of people seem to forget that. Great setting and characters. Also, that fucking fish boss was haaaaaard. Possibly the only boss in a Zelda game I had real trouble with. That I can remember.

 

Also, I don't really see eye to eye with this "Ganon was forced thing". Do people realize that Ganon rarely appears throughout Zelda games? He's a manipulative bastard, he mostly uses puppets (literally in WW), if he doesn't have to get his hands dirty, he doesn't. He appears mostly at the end of the games saving an appearance here and there. In OoT he appeared a few times though, but still it was rare, he uses Aghanim in ALTTP only appearing in the end, like he uses Zant in TP.

 

I don't mind new villains, hell I want new villains now and then, Vaati is great, but in Zelda, ganon is the personification of evil. Same goes for the most big characters in TP, namely Zelda (and in MM Skull Kid), when they actually appear, since it's so rare, they actually feel like important characters in the game world and they seem so much "bigger", drawing the player in. If I saw the King of Evil that's either ruling the world or pulling some strings to do so every 15 minutes, he wouldn't feel all that grand and the final battle would be much less climatic. Same goes for Zelda, which is also usually busy ruling, being kidnapped or hiding, what exactly is the point of having a key persona in the series (it's named after her, well, them!), a character that is of royalty and legend if she's always with you? There's a reason why, if you followed the story in WW you only saw her as a princess a few times.

 

What matters isn't how many times you see a character, but the what you feel when you see them and the effect they have on the world.

 

In OoT's future you saw the devastated world, the zombies, the migrations, in WW you saw the shit stirring up, bokoblins and pirates, in ALttP you saw Aghanim kidnapping the maidens in Ganon's stead and what Ganon did to the dark world and in TP you have Zant also being controlled by Ganon, taking an entire race and turning them into mindless beasts, creating the twilight in Hyrule, killing most people in Kakariko, making Goron's hostile and forcing Zelda to bargain with him to save Hyrule city. The effect of the villains are always there, I don't need to see them. Kinda like in Mario, granted they don't care about dramatics, but when I face off against Bowser, considering I alredy battled him 125 times in the same game, it's just another battle.

 

This isn't just a Zelda specific "rant" though, it's about the way villains are wrote are usually badly done. There are many ways of doing it right, but just sticking a guy at the end or just have pop up all the time doesn't do shit.

 

Majora's Mask isn't impossible to beat without the Fierce Deity mask but it sure does help. First time I did it was without all masks and it was a test alright. What a game. Zelda games are so hard to separate!

 

I beat it without the fierce diety mask when the game was launched (if it was 2000 that means I was 12/13) without all the hearts at my first try and it wasn't hard, in fact I only got the fierce diety mask when I was waiting for TP to launch, so I 100% MM and WW :P

[Jonnas]

Also, I don't really see eye to eye with this "Ganon was forced thing". Do people realize that Ganon rarely appears throughout Zelda games? He's a manipulative bastard, he mostly uses puppets (literally in WW), if he doesn't have to get his hands dirty, he doesn't. He appears mostly at the end of the games saving an appearance here and there. In OoT he appeared a few times though, but still it was rare, he uses Aghanim in ALTTP only appearing in the end, like he uses Zant in TP.

 

I don't mind new villains, hell I want new villains now and then, Vaati is great, but in Zelda, ganon is the personification of evil. Same goes for the most big characters in TP, namely Zelda (and in MM Skull Kid), when they actually appear, since it's so rare, they actually feel like important characters in the game world and they seem so much "bigger", drawing the player in. If I saw the King of Evil that's either ruling the world or pulling some strings to do so every 15 minutes, he wouldn't feel all that grand and the final battle would be much less climatic. Same goes for Zelda, which is also usually busy ruling, being kidnapped or hiding, what exactly is the point of having a key persona in the series (it's named after her, well, them!), a character that is of royalty and legend if she's always with you? There's a reason why, if you followed the story in WW you only saw her as a princess a few times.

 

What matters isn't how many times you see a character, but the what you feel when you see them and the effect they have on the world.

 

In OoT's future you saw the devastated world, the zombies, the migrations, in WW you saw the shit stirring up, bokoblins and pirates, in ALttP you saw Aghanim kidnapping the maidens in Ganon's stead and what Ganon did to the dark world and in TP you have Zant also being controlled by Ganon, taking an entire race and turning them into mindless beasts, creating the twilight in Hyrule, killing most people in Kakariko, making Goron's hostile and forcing Zelda to bargain with him to save Hyrule city. The effect of the villains are always there, I don't need to see them. Kinda like in Mario, granted they don't care about dramatics, but when I face off against Bowser, considering I alredy battled him 125 times in the same game, it's just another battle.

 

This isn't just a Zelda specific "rant" though, it's about the way villains are wrote are usually badly done. There are many ways of doing it right, but just sticking a guy at the end or just have pop up all the time doesn't do shit.

 

You are right in what you're saying. But Ganon was still badly presented in TP. All those things you said, it was Zant's will and doing (or at least it's what the player sees).

When it all culminates in the battle against Zant, it goes all "Oh yeah, it really wasn't Zant, it was Ganon. Go fight him, now". It makes sense, but it was quite anti-climatic.

At that point, Ganon had only appeared in flashbacks and some references. If the final battle had been something like "Puppet Zant" or a fight against both Zant & Ganon, it could've been more meaningful. Zant was the main villan, not Ganon.

 

But yeah, I agree with the rest. Villans should be better, but Zelda usually does it right.

[ViPeR]

Something i've always wondered about the Zelda games is the heart pieces at the end of boss fights. Is it possible to simply not pick them up, giving you a lesser health bar essentially making the game harder. If so i'd probably use it with TP. I thought the only thing missing as such was the lack of recogniseable music and side quests for items/weapons you don't necessarily need but are fun to have. Despite their best efforts I couldn't really give a shit about the characters in the game like I did with OOT and MM.

[Coolness Bears]

Something i've always wondered about the Zelda games is the heart pieces at the end of boss fights. Is it possible to simply not pick them up, giving you a lesser health bar essentially making the game harder. If so i'd probably use it with TP. I thought the only thing missing as such was the lack of recogniseable music and side quests for items/weapons you don't necessarily need but are fun to have. Despite their best efforts I couldn't really give a shit about the characters in the game like I did with OOT and MM.

 

I don't think you can dodge the Heart container at the end of the boss battle because you have to pick it up in order for the thing to appear to send you back from there into the outside again!?

 

Though You can just not search for extra heart containers which should make it a bit harder? I don't know I did this anyway and it's still easy really.

[Zell]

Actually I think most Zelda games allow you to skip the heart container at the end of each dungeon (you can reclaim it later though if you want). The only exception as far as I'm aware is Link's Awakening.

[Coolness Bears]

Actually I think most Zelda games allow you to skip the heart container at the end of each dungeon (you can reclaim it later though if you want). The only exception as far as I'm aware is Link's Awakening.

 

You could be Right!

 

I'm not sure as I've always gone for the Heart Container! :p

[Invisible Painting]

There is something called the 3 heart challenge, in which you have to play through OoT with some very strict limitations which you cannot break (the most obvious one being don't get any heart containers or pieces), others being not upgrading any items/magic meter and certain items you're not allowed to get. More details here.

 

So you definately can avoid them in that game, and I believe you can in most as well. But again, I don't really try to

[tapedeck]

To get a better look at Beta Twilight princess and therefore a LOAD of ideas that never made the finished product read HERE.

 

Interesting that they initially wanted the dark to be pitch black with only Link's lantern lighting the way through dingy villages etc, and the notion that all wood would be perishable with a fire arrow and bombs would shatter pretty much all wood.

 

Well worth the read. Relates to many things said here...

[Retro_Link]

Ordon Village- mostly consisted of herding goats, helping villagers and collecting animals, "a cat named Link, a hawk and a dog." In the screenshot, Link rescues the dog via row-boat. These boats made it into the game, just not in Ordon.

Should of been in the game, and more of the same.

Yusuke goes on to say that Link will be more expressionistic than he was in Wind Waker.

Bollocks.

We're also thinking about using motion capture with real dogs and a horse -animals are such an essential part of the game."

They must have found the only unnatural horse on the planet!

I imagine this means the team was still debating whether or not to end Twilight Princess with the flooding of Hyrule; seeing as how this would flow into Wind Waker's storyline much more smoothly, I really can't imagine why they didn't end it this way.

Hopefully we'll get this scene in a future game.

[Hellfire]

You are right in what you're saying. But Ganon was still badly presented in TP. All those things you said, it was Zant's will and doing (or at least it's what the player sees).

When it all culminates in the battle against Zant, it goes all "Oh yeah, it really wasn't Zant, it was Ganon. Go fight him, now". It makes sense, but it was quite anti-climatic.

At that point, Ganon had only appeared in flashbacks and some references. If the final battle had been something like "Puppet Zant" or a fight against both Zant & Ganon, it could've been more meaningful. Zant was the main villan, not Ganon.

 

But yeah, I agree with the rest. Villans should be better, but Zelda usually does it right.

I don't agree I think both Zant and Ganon were great in TP, but this is of course, completly up to personal taste. Ganon was a more interesting villain in WW, in fact he was amazing, but as an evil mastermind he was at his best in TP. He killed a sage, manipulated a weakling into usurping a throne, destroying the Twili civilization making everyone into beasts, invading Hyrule and in turn forced Zelda against the wall. Of course if this was all Zant, OK nice, he's a generic badass, that came out of nowhere with amazing powers. Now, by revealing Ganon after the Stalord everything makes sense, not only re-estabilishing Ganon as the root of evil, but tying the game into the continuity (which isn't all that important except for a handful of fans I suppose), but explaining how Zant got his powers which made him and Midna deeper characters.

And like I said, the main villain is who's behind all of it, which is of course Ganon and the fact the was shown in flashbacks made it clear that Zant wasn't working alone.

Tbh I really love ganon in TP, he acted with a sly plan just like in TP, which is freaking awesome

 

To get a better look at Beta Twilight princess and therefore a LOAD of ideas that never made the finished product read HERE.

 

Interesting that they initially wanted the dark to be pitch black with only Link's lantern lighting the way through dingy villages etc, and the notion that all wood would be perishable with a fire arrow and bombs would shatter pretty much all wood.

 

Well worth the read. Relates to many things said here...

 

It would be nice wouldn't it :P It would be nice to have access to most ideas that dont make it into games, because it's always a bucketload, some pass to the next games, some don't.

 

Retro what's the problem with the horse, she looks amazing! And Link was incredibly expressive as were the NPCs, they had better facial expressions that most games out there. Of course that WWs is more flashy, but still.

 

(TP defense force!)

[Retro_Link]

Retro what's the problem with the horse, she looks amazing! And Link was incredibly expressive as were the NPCs, they had better facial expressions that most games out there. Of course that WWs is more flashy, but still.

 

(TP defense force!)

Links expressions were great, and whilst at times they matched WW Link in terms of emotion, they didn't surpass them.

 

Yeah Epona looked like a horse, but the gallop was horribly unrealistic and exagerated!

Assasins Creed got the horse movements spot on and the sense of speed and energy you get from that gallop really adds to the excitment of being on horseback.

[Hellfire]

Assassin's horse doesn't look minimally realistic it seems like he's made of air, TP and SotC really nailed the animations, they actually actually look like heavy steeds that are going fast.

[Jonnas]

I don't agree I think both Zant and Ganon were great in TP, but this is of course, completly up to personal taste. Ganon was a more interesting villain in WW, in fact he was amazing, but as an evil mastermind he was at his best in TP. He killed a sage, manipulated a weakling into usurping a throne, destroying the Twili civilization making everyone into beasts, invading Hyrule and in turn forced Zelda against the wall. Of course if this was all Zant, OK nice, he's a generic badass, that came out of nowhere with amazing powers. Now, by revealing Ganon after the Stalord everything makes sense, not only re-estabilishing Ganon as the root of evil, but tying the game into the continuity (which isn't all that important except for a handful of fans I suppose), but explaining how Zant got his powers which made him and Midna deeper characters.

And like I said, the main villain is who's behind all of it, which is of course Ganon and the fact the was shown in flashbacks made it clear that Zant wasn't working alone.

Tbh I really love ganon in TP, he acted with a sly plan just like in TP, which is freaking awesome

 

Yeah, as I said, Ganon's appearance made sense, but it was anti-climatic. I still think Zant should've been in the final battle.

For the record, Ganondorf is one of my favourite villans ever. His manipulative plans work most of the time, and you never notice them until he reveals them (especially in OoT where he tricked you twice into doing his bidding).

But c'mon, Zant was more important to the whole "Twilight" situation than Ganon was. Kinda reminds me of the final boss of Starfox Adventures (although not as bad as SFA).

[Retro_Link]

Assassin's horse doesn't look minimally realistic it seems like he's made of air, TP and SotC really nailed the animations, they actually actually look like heavy steeds that are going fast.

Perhaps a little light looking yeah, but I think that's largely due to the constant undulation of the ground.

But I just think Assassins looks much more realistic:

 

[Blue_Ninja0]

I'm impressed by the ammount of easter eggs I didn't know about of TP here. Makes it all the better!

 

- In the fishing hole, Hena has a picture of the fishing pond owner from Ocarina of Time. If you quickly look over at Hena after looking at the Legendary Fisherman from OOT, she will be scratching her back. If you talk to her when she scratches, she makes a comment about it. In OOT, the Fisherman always was scratching his back.

 

- Fire a bomb arrow in to the sky for an instant firework!"

 

- When you ask the fortune teller in Hyrule Castle town for your 'love' fortune, her chant is actually "Wait....loading takes a while" spelled backwards.

 

Okay, I have to try these right away!

[nekunando]

This is so frustrating.. I was 33 hours into Twilight Princess (obtained mainly within the first month or 2 of owning it.. back at the launch of the Wii) ..however, after completing Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition last night I thought that the time has finally come to finish this game.

 

I really should have got to the end of it back when I was really into it and loving every second because having gone back to it an hour ago I just don't have that desire for it.. I don't know where it has gone but it just isn't inviting me in! I hope I can start enjoying it again.. but at the moment I can't see it happening which is a huge shame

[darkjak]

Majora's Mask isn't impossible to beat without the Fierce Deity mask but it sure does help. First time I did it was without all masks and it was a test alright. What a game. Zelda games are so hard to separate!

 

I've finished MM without the FD mask. I think that MM more tested your patience than it was difficult. Which is why I don't quite like it.

 

I've finished MM without the FD mask. I think that MM more tested your patience than it was difficult. Which is why I don't quite like it.

 

@Nando

 

I too only played the game back at launch. After my christmas off, I was back in the military. When I came back on weekends, I didn't feel the urge to play anymore. However, after Muck (when your military training is over and you go home and carry on with your civilian life) I started playing again. So far I've put 60 hours into the game. After a year at the university, without my Wii (I left it behind since I don't have a TV @ my appartment), I stopped playing for a year. I think it's time to get playing again soon.

[Coolness Bears]

This is so frustrating.. I was 33 hours into Twilight Princess (obtained mainly within the first month or 2 of owning it.. back at the launch of the Wii) ..however, after completing Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition last night I thought that the time has finally come to finish this game.

 

I really should have got to the end of it back when I was really into it and loving every second because having gone back to it an hour ago I just don't have that desire for it.. I don't know where it has gone but it just isn't inviting me in! I hope I can start enjoying it again.. but at the moment I can't see it happening which is a huge shame

 

This is exactly the same with me. I still nedd to finish the game. >_____<

 

But I have no motivation to, the game doesn't draw me in like it did for the first few months I was playing it!

 

I'm going to go off and try and get into it now as I really need to complete it. It is getting ridiculous. :p

[nekunando]

..would you believe Prince of Persia: Rival Swords has jumped above this game in my priority list? I'm probably closer to the end of it and having just played through a couple of sections of it there after Zelda I just feel more interested in running along walls at the moment..