What was 'wrong' with Twilight Princess?

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Or by 'wrong' I mean missing. Also sorry for all these questions, just things that are on my mind.

 

It seems to be an almost universal fact that TP lacked 'something' that the N64 Zelda games had, even though technically TP is totally superior to at least OOT in possibly every way, well maybe minus the NPC involvement/attachment.

 

What i first noticed while playing TP was the lack of idle animations, ie the movements Link do while the player doesn't press anything. In OOT Link would; arrange his belt, look back and around, stamp his boots, strike his sword, try out his shield, yawn (especially during morning/night), sneeze in cold places and wipe sweat away from his head in hot places and more.

In TP it was reduced down to the boot stamping, and I think just one more movement. Maybe these reductions were a sign of rushing the game. You might think its insignificant but consider the LOL you get when Mario trips occasionally in paper Mario.

 

So, yeah maybe it was rushed a bit, or could it be due to the lack of Miyamoto involvement?

 

I also didn't like the natural barriers of the world... Using a cannon to get to the Desert, to get to the sky temple and using a (cough) cucco to get to the Lost Woods. It was so very restrictive, unlike OOT and MM but a bit similar to Wind Waker.

 

But did TP seem lacking in any specific area to you?

[PeeJ]

I wouldn't call this lacking but the fact that the game itself was a tad too easy. If it wasn't for the overall length of the game it could be completed in about 2 days so personally I would of prefered more of a challenge.

 

Apart from that I agree with King V's opinion and the game itself was lacking more of the little ideas instead of the BIG ideas.

[darksnowman]

Hmm, I didn't actually notice the lack of idle animations so next time I play I'll be leaving Linky boy standing to see what he does- and I'm not expecting much now.

 

You make a good point about the use of the cannon and stuff to get between places. It worked well for the Sky Temple but maybe it would be better if you used it once or twice for the desert, but afterwards you got an item/ opened up a path to the desert.

 

As for my ideas, well one thing that would have been nice would have been if all the people in castle town could have been spoke to. Even though the place was brimming with life as there were so many people, it somehow felt empty when you realised you couldn't talk to them... but you could scare them when in wolf form, which was good.

[Cube]

I wouldn't call this lacking but the fact that the game itself was a tad too easy. If it wasn't for the overall length of the game it could be completed in about 2 days so personally I would of prefered more of a challenge.

 

OoT, MM, WW and TP were all a tad easy, though.

[darksnowman]

A Link to the Past was easy up until Ganon's Tower... which was at the very end of the game. Majora's Mask had its difficult moments- like the bits when you needed to use the Gorons mask.

[Goron_3]

A Link to the Past was easy up until Ganon's Tower... which was at the very end of the game. Majora's Mask had its difficult moments- like the bits when you needed to use the Gorons mask.

 

Link To The Past is a bastard of a game to complete!

 

Oh god TP where to start:

-Lack of voiceovers for characters other than Link.

-Boring music (apart from the gerudo place ).

-Bad guys were so easy to kill. They were barely a challenege.

-The opening few hours of the game (where you're a wolf in the dark world for the first time) are so epic...then after a while it just becomes an 'walk to dungeon, complete dungeon, walk to the next dungeon.

-Could have had some QTE sequences. in the final battle vs ganon you had to rapidly press A but it was always A you had to press and it got annoying because it was so easy to win. With the weapons Link has QTE sequences could work really well.

-Lack of set pieces. There was no 'holy shit its dark link!' moment.

-Virtually no character to areas such as kakariko village; such a shame when you look at the old villages in the games. I mean, Karariko in OoT and Windfall Island where just amazing!

-Awful final boss.

[Retro_Link]

I thought it was pretty soul-less tbh!

 

The overworld was pretty big, but completely deviod of life; there was just nothing going on what-so-ever!

 

Personally I wasn't overly keen on the overall story, wolf link and Midna, the two dimensional twilight idea, the alien like shadow enemies, I dunno I just wasn't keen, it didn't have a Zelda feel to me!

 

And there were just small frustrating things like, why on earth did Epona run so stupidly! why you could barely use some of the weapons, and how you couldn't use the spinner as transport etc...

 

Also sound-wise; the music was completely forgetable and for the first time the voice sound-fx really quite annoyed me, especially Midna!

I'm fine with Link never talking, and things like monkeys etc... but everyone else in the world neede to be given personality!

 

There was also a lack of side-quests, resulting in you not really caring about the world as you never got to know or care about the characters in it.

 

I agree with the overworld 'barrier' thing.

 

Also, the temples and bosses are beginning to feel too familiar on the whole!

 

I'd like the next Zelda to have a FAR greater emphasis on exploration!

[ShadowV7]

QTEs? No way would I want them in a Zelda game at all. All the bad guys are easy to kill in any game :awesome:

 

For me it was the lack of Tri-Force and the legends surrounding it and also the lack of Zelda doing anything in the game, she was there, but just another character and didn't do much.

 

Also Ganon looked horrible I think, and lack of side quests near the end of the game.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

OoT, MM, WW and TP were all a tad easy, though.

 

WW and TP perhaps, but OOT and MM are a bit higher tier.

 

Ocarina of Time Difficulties (during 1st play):

- Lord Jabu-Jabu's Belly

- Barinade

- Forest Temple (more tricky than hard)

- In fact all adult temples were imo harder than every TP temple and WW perhaps minus the Wind Temple.

- Bosses that deal more than 3 hearts of damage ala Twinrova, Bongo-Bongo, Morpha, even Dark Link.

 

Majora's Mask Difficulties:

- All temples minus Windfall and perhaps Snowpeak.

- Collecting all fairies in temple.

- Collecting masks (I'm sure none of you collected all without a guide)

- Bosses.

- Events directly prior to temples. ie Big Goron blocking the path, going through the mazes around the Deku Palace, Pirates and the Zora eggs and meeting the Ikana king.

 

Of course, just my humble opinion. ;P

[Jonnas]

It seems to be an almost universal fact that TP lacked 'something' that the N64 Zelda games had, even though technically TP is totally superior to at least OOT in possibly every way, well maybe minus the NPC involvement/attachment.

 

See, you almost answered your own question, there. The full answer is also related with your other point (although I never notice Link's animations).

 

 

Simply put, the game simply lacks charm, charisma, soul, whatever you want to call it.

 

The blatant lack of side-quests and shops is a sign of this. There are very few NPCs that require your involvement (and those that do, reward you with useless rupees).

Here are a few flaws that make TP's world bland and uninteresting:

 

-Ordon, Goron village, Zora's domain and Hidden Village have nothing for you, therefore, no reason for you to explore these places and become attached to them;

-Huge Hyrule field, but very few details you can actually explore and/or mess with;

-Hyrule market is bustling with people, but suffers from the EXACT problem as the other towns. How is it supposed to feel like a big town, if you can't interact with anyone?;

-Kakariko, the village with some actual side-quests, was deserted, and even the side-quests were few...

-The Twilight World is even emptier than the normal world;

-The Twilight Castle and Hyrule Castle are the worst dungeons ever.

 

So, yeah maybe it was rushed a bit, or could it be due to the lack of Miyamoto involvement?

 

Rushed? I'm not buying that. The game was in development for a long time.

But if Myamoto was there, he could've lessened those bland flaws. Still, Myamoto wasn't the only man behind the brilliance of other Zelda games.

 

I also didn't like the natural barriers of the world... Using a cannon to get to the Desert, to get to the sky temple and using a (cough) cucco to get to the Lost Woods. It was so very restrictive, unlike OOT and MM but a bit similar to Wind Waker.

 

I didn't like those restrictions when I was playing the game, true. It would've been nice if there was some nice way of opening the entrance to the desert or the Lost Woods. (The sky city is understandable, though. It's a dungeon)

 

 

Having said all that, TP still had a few strong points, like good Boss battles, Dungeon design (except for the last two...) and the few characters with personality were enjoyable (Midna, the Ordon kids, etc.).

The bad still outweights the good, though.

 

And I'm glad they aren't working in anymore Zeldas right now. The formula risks getting stale, and unless they actually have a nifty new idea for a new game (like sailing, stylus, 3-day system, etc.), it's better to give it some rest.

[ShadowV7]

Well the Zelda team 'recently got back together' a while back, so there's a chance the next one is in the designing stage.

 

I kinda don't want Ganondorf in this one, I want a break from him. Maybe the next home console game Zelda after the next, with epic Tri-Force involvement like WW and OOT

[Jonnas]

Well the Zelda team 'recently got back together' a while back, so there's a chance the next one is in the designing stage.

 

I kinda don't want Ganondorf in this one, I want a break from him. Maybe the next home console game Zelda after the next, with epic Tri-Force involvement like WW and OOT

 

Ganondorf also needs a break. Unless the next Zelda game ends with someone taking the sword from his forehead, I don't want him involved. Not for a while.

 

They could expand a bit more on Vaati, though...

[Retro_Link]

I kinda don't want Ganondorf in this one, I want a break from him. Maybe the next home console game Zelda after the next, with epic Tri-Force involvement like WW and OOT

Yeah agreed,

 

It's been said many times I know but;

 

For the next game I'd be happy seeing a Fierce Deity Link vs Majora storyline spin-off,

 

 

Then on to a Lord of the Rings esque Great War, major Triforce epic of a Zelda, full of exploration! Where all the races really come into their own, we see the Sheikah fighting, Zora/Goron/Hylian armies etc...

 

 

And yeh Ganondorf didn't look right in TP, for the 5 seconds he was actually in it that is, wtf!

Zant was it? He was rubbish!

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

And I'm glad they aren't working in anymore Zeldas right now. The formula risks getting stale, and unless they actually have a nifty new idea for a new game (like sailing, stylus, 3-day system, etc.), it's better to give it some rest.

 

Sad to admit, but true nonetheless. But honestly I can't see what else they can do with the main Zelda adventure except for spin-offs.

 

Although there are still many unanswered details in the storyline which I and many are very interested in knowing - I would prefer a certain chapter of storyline maybe the same as witnessing some Nintendo ingenuity in the series.

Being a Sheikah freak, I really want to see their story, due to their mystery they are the most interesting race imo.

[Goron_3]

I hope the Zelda team got back together and KNEW what they did wrong in Twilight Princess, instead of thinking 'more of the same due to the good reviews'. They need to bring the series forward, and i hope they can do it They've been daring in the past tbh with Majora's and Wind Waker (what a risk and just LOOK at it) so I really hope they give it their all.

Oh, and i hope they get given a bigger budget, now that they are rich as fuck.

[ShadowV7]

Yea they better get a decent budget for this.

 

I'd be quite happy for a prequel to MM and have the game based on Majoras Mask and Fierce Link. Such a cool character.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Yea they better get a decent budget for this.

 

I'd be quite happy for a prequel to MM and have the game based on Majoras Mask and Fierce Link. Such a cool character.

 

*drooling*

 

Yes, that would be awesome. So really, the Zelda team have a good array of storylines to choose from, its just the challenge and overal gameplay mechanics that need more thought.

[RossK]

im not sure but i thouhgt it was dull i didnt even bother to complete it , i think the comments about the overworld are true its big but ..empty? it feels lonley .

I enjoyed sword fighting but im not sure about the wolf aspect .

[Cube]

I think the main thing they need to do is to make the items a lot smoother to use (something the Wii Remote could really help with - you could be pointing at something while running around tap the hookshot item button to use it instantly on the spot you're pointing at, or stuff like that) and the combat a bit more diverse (TP's few "advanced" moves was a good start, but not enough).

 

And with the Wii Remote they can improve bosses as they can remove the lock-on for them.

[Retro_Link]

I think we were all a little decieved with Twilight Princess, because we certainly didn't get what everyone percieved from this:

 

 

and I myself was just let down by the story that we did end up with because I'd conjured up this awesome scenario that just didn't materialise.

 

And when you look at a screen like this:

 

You just didn't have anything like the freedom it portrays! I want to be able to run and ride up and over the hills and have total freedom to move around; not have to hookshot up to a specific point and only be able to move around the occasional '1st story only' grass ledge!

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Yeah agreed,

 

It's been said many times I know but;

 

For the next game I'd be happy seeing a Fierce Deity Link vs Majora storyline spin-off,

 

 

 

Then on to a Lord of the Rings esque Great War, major Triforce epic of a Zelda, full of exploration! Where all the races really come into their own, we see the Sheikah fighting, Zora/Goron/Hylian armies etc...

 

 

 

And yeh Ganondorf didn't look right in TP, for the 5 seconds he was actually in it that is, wtf!

Zant was it? He was rubbish!

 

 

And in that triforce epic I would love to see more enpowering Triforce-based moves as Link does in Brawl. I mean, at times it doesn't feel like Link gets any form of power from the triforce of courage or at least Nintendo don't emphasise on it. Whilst Zelda gets better magic power through wisdom and Ganondorf goes oozaru! More triforce coverage.

[Jonnas]

I think we were all a little decieved with Twilight Princess, we certainly didn't get what everyone originally percieved from this:

 

 

and I myself was just let down by the story that we did end up with because I'd conjured up this awesome scenario that just didn't materialise.

 

And when you look at a screen like this:

 

You just didn't have anything like the freedom it portrays! I want to be able to run up the hills and have total freedom to move around; not have to hookshot up to a specific point and only be able to move around the occasional '1st story only' grass ledges!

 

If only that. How come the Clawshot doesn't stick to trees or roofs? That was awesome in OoT.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I think we were all a little decieved with Twilight Princess, because we certainly didn't get what everyone percieved from this:

 

 

 

LOL, what a rip! Those visual effects of fog, sunlight and solar flares didn't 'translate' well into the final package. I feel betrayed everytime I see this. XD

[K-project]

I dunno. I love it.

 

Been a big fan of the Zelda games since the SNES and thought Twilight Princess was absolutely lovely. That's not to say that I don't think there's a load of stuff they could do to improve it though. I agree with those who say it needed more life. I want to empathise with the inhabitants of Hyrule, and feel for their struggles etc. I want to feel a part of the life there - make it more unpredictable Nintendo. It's funny, I read a topic on Channel 4's Gamecentral over last weekend, where they asked readers which game world they would love to live in in real life. Loads of people said Hyrule, and I think Nintendo could do so much more to capture that, to make it somewhere you don't want to leave and where you don't know what it's people will do next.

 

That's about the only thing I think is missing from TP for me. Otherwise I love it, and still play it regularly now.

 

As for hardest Zelda - Majora's Mask was the hardest for me so far. All the others are about equal. I certainly don't feel TP is any easier than say, a Link to the Past at all.

[darkjak]

The first trailers for TP suggested a huge war. I'd really like to see this in a game.

I'd also like to see the Gerudos returning. What I was missing was a varried arsenal. Link had two shields and two swords, but both were the same. There basically existed no reason to use the old stuff once you had the new ones. In OOT you had the Master Sword, and the more powerfull Biggoron Sword, which disabled you from using your shield.

There were also no magic weapons. No flaming or ice arrows, no din's fire, and no chargeable sword slash.

And of course, the game was much too short and easy. In OOT there were poes, gold scultulas, four bottles, doubled health and loads of other volountary stuff. TP had... poes. And bugs.

 

Also I think that it's about time to have a bit more character development. Link should show attraction to some female character, preferrably those feelings should be answered.