Looking back on Pokémon Starters (Paldea - Gen 9)

[Glen-i]

1 hour ago, Jonnas said:

(can't get over Treecko's little stubby fingers/toes, though, are these supposed to be pods like a gecko's? They don't look right at all).

Yes, pretty much. The Pokédex entries refer to it being able to climb walls and ceilings a lot.

[RedShell]

On 23/02/2024 at 5:12 AM, Glen-i said:

What's your favourite?

Not grass type this time!

Yep, Torchic wins cutest starter for Gen 3.

[Glen-i]

Hah! You thought I was going to talk about Gen 4? You foolish fool! We're not done with Gen 3 yet!
Because if the likes of Legends and Let's Go count as mainline games, then the Gamecube RPG's totally count.

Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon XD take place in Orre, a mostly desert region that's inhospitable to wild Pokémon. The games have a heavy focus on Double Battles, so Colosseum didn't really give you a choice of starter Pokémon, but it does give you two.

 

Espeon (ESS-pee-on) and Umbreon (UM-bree-on) were the latest evolutions of Eevee at the time, and just like all of the others, are thoroughly mid. In a game with severely limited options for moves, these two Pokémon are effectively dead weight. Umbreon, especially. That thing is dreadful in Colosseum. Replace it as soon as you can!

Of course, these are notable in that they're already evolved and have levels in the mid-20's, but not having a choice of what Pokémon you want kind of sucks, so Pokémon XD addressed that with...

Eevee (EE-vee) is what you start the second Orre game with, so while you don't have an initial choice, you eventually do get a choice of what to evolve it into.
Problem is, they're all kinda lame, and only Jolteon and Espeon are even worth considering in XD. You'd likely be better off using 6 other Pokémon instead.

Seriously, they're rubbish Pokémon. Coasting by purely on perceived cuteness and marketing.

Anyway, that's all there is to say, really. I promise, Gen 4 will be talked about this week. Just wanted to get this side note out of the way.

Edited April 12 by Glen-i

[Ashley]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

Hah! You thought I was going to talk about Gen 4?

No because I read the title. 

[Glen-i]

On 29/02/2024 at 5:52 PM, Ashley said:

No because I read the title. 

Curse my informative thread titles!
Anyway, moving on.

Generation 4, or Pearl, Diamond, and Platinum, are DS games that take place in the Sinnoh region. Weirdly enough, it's not really got a cohesive loacale theming like the previous game. Well, if it has, I can't tell what it is.
Now, I've mentioned this before, but this generation was the one that introduced the "Physical-Special Split". This is still the most radical change to the battle system that we've seen as it gave a lot of Pokémon a lot more options as far as type coverage goes. Pokémon that had stats that didn't compliment their typing (Feraligatr) could now utilise those types to their fullest.

  

Turtwig (TUR-twig) is the Grass type's take on a turtle Pokémon. It's a more interesting take, because the "shell" is dirt that's hardened over time.
Weirdly enough, in Generation 4, the first couple of gyms are set up in such a way that no matter which starter you pick, they'll do almost equally well. So it's hard to recommend picking it based on the opening hours. So I won't bother.

Grotle (GRAH-tul) is yet another middle evoultion that I will not go into.

Torterra (tor-TER-ra) gets Ground added to it's Grass typing. A type combination so at odds with each other, that Torterra ends up with less resistances and more weaknesses then if it just stayed as a Grass type. Which is pretty bad when you're one of the slowest starter Pokémon ever. You kinda need good defenses when you're certain to go last. And this big massive downside is why Torterra gets eclipsed by a certain other Pokémon here.

Still, there is one thing that saves Torterra from being as awful as Meganium, and it's quite recent. When all the starters were added to Scarlet and Violet, Torterra was suddenly given the move "Shell Smash". Shell Smash is a move that lowers Torterra's Defense and Special Defense by 1 stage, but raises the other three stats by 2 stages. This has been a godsend for Torterra, it hasn't made it the greatest Pokémon ever, sure, but it's actually decent now. It took 5 generations, but it got there.

  

Chimchar's (CHIM-char) butt is on fire...
What? You want more!?

Well, like the other Gen 4 starters, it's good against one early gym. Seriously, there's not much that differentiates these starters in the early game. I wish there was, but they're remarkably well balanced in those first two gyms.

Monferno (mon-FUR-no) becomes Fire/Fighting. Yeah, just like the Fire starter in the previous generation. It's really weird that they went with the same type combination two times in a row. I have no idea why, but the martial artist monkey is quite the popular trope in Japanese culture, so I'm gonna assume Game Freak liked the idea enough that they didn't care about the repeat.

Whenever I see Infernape (in-FUR-nape), I immediately think of this.
For all intents and purposes, Infernape is essentially a faster, slightly weaker Blaziken. Which makes it better then Blaziken in Gen 4. Which also makes it the best starter in Gen 4 by far. Blaziken would claim that "Best starter ever" throne in Gen 5, but Infernape is the only sensible choice for these games.
You see, in Diamond and Pearl, there are precisely 2 fire Pokémon you can use. Rapidash, which kinda sucks, and Infernape. So not choosing Infernape as your starter means you don't plan on using Fire types ever. This doesn't apply to Platinum, that has a much better type distribution, but still, Gen 4's Pokémon choices are wack.

  

Piplup (PIP-lup) is the first Penguin Pokémon that doesn't completely suck. (Seriously, Delibird is one of the worst Pokémon you could ever send into a battle) Anyway, not much to say as far as the mainline games go, but Piplup features in the two PokéPark games as a somewhat major NPC. That's about it as far as spin-off appearences for the Gen 4 starters go. Arguably, the most forgotten generation as a whole.

Prinplup (PRIN-plup) is there. That's about it on that nonsense.

Empoleon (em-POH-lee-on) becomes Water/Steel, which means Infernape now naturally hits it for super effective damage! You're a pretty crummy Water starter if the corresponding Fire starter can totally floor you. And when you're barely faster then Torterra, you're not going first. It's physical Defense isn't even that good! One Close Combat from Infernape or an Earthquake from Torterra, and you'll quickly wish you chose them instead of this rubbish excuse for a Water Pokémon.

Seriously, choose Chimchar. And if you don't want Chimchar, then for the love of Arceus, don't choose Piplup! Because I officially declare it, the worst Water starter in all of Pokémon. Meganium has company at last!

So yeah, that's Gen 4. Favourites are very much encouraged to be shared.

As a whole, I think these are the weakest starter Pokémon. There's no real standouts, design wise. Infernape is neat, but there's no escaping the fact that it's a Blaziken rehash. Even if I do prefer Infernape to Blaziken.

Torterra is a better design then Blastoise though, and that's final!

Edited April 12 by Glen-i

[Dcubed]

Torterra’s design is rad as hell.  He’s a World Turtle with attitude!

Shame he was kinda booty competitively, all the way up until Gen 9 at least, but he gets by on rule of cool alone.

I also love the Fire Butt Monkey line.  Yes, Blaziken does render Monferno a bit redundant, but any Pokemon line with its arse and head permanently on fire is A-OK by me!

Piplup is cute & cuddly, but its evolutions are pretty unremarkable unfortunately.

Edited March 1 by Dcubed

[Ashley]

11 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Torterra’s design is rad as hell.  He’s a World Turtle with attitude!

Shame he was kinda booty competitively, all the way up until Gen 9 at least, but he gets by on rule of cool alone.

I also love the Fire Butt Monkey line.  Yes, Blaziken does render Monferno a bit redundant, but any Pokemon line with its arse and head permanently on fire is A-OK by me!

Piplup is cute & cuddly, but its evolutions are pretty unremarkable unfortunately.

Disappointed you didn't go for a clean sweep and find some way of referencing butts in your comments on Piplup. 

[Dcubed]

Well this is good timing... False Swipe Gaming just did an updated video on Swampert's competitive history...

Turns out that Swampert and Mega Swampert did a lot better in the competitive scene than me or @Glen-i gave 'em credit for!

[Jonnas]

My personal attachment to these starters is basically zero. And I don't find any of them to be that hot.

Turtwig line is okay. I like the concept of a large tortoise that carries an ecosystem on its back, but the art itself always looked odd to me. It's just the one tree? And it's not even centered? Would be cool if Torterra had caterpies and stuff living on its shell, but instead, it's just the one uneven tree.

Chimchar line is admittedly consistent, and I can't find much fault in it. I'm just not that into fighting monkeys (unless they have a magic staff that can alter its size).

Piplup... I liked this little critter when I first saw the trio. Penguins are cute and lovely. Empoleon, however, is a mess, in the sense that it does not look like an animal. It looks like a machine or a scarecrow that's meant to only somewhat resemble a penguin, and I don't like it one bit.

[Glen-i]

2 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

Would be cool if Torterra had caterpies and stuff living on its shell, but instead, it's just the one uneven tree.

Actually, they do. The Pokédex mentions it a few times. This is the entry from Platinum.

Quote

Some Pokémon are born on a TORTERRA's back and spend their entire life there

 

[Jonnas]

4 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Actually, they do. The Pokédex mentions it a few times. This is the entry from Platinum.

 

Oh, so it's an informed attribute... I mean, I accept stuff like Machamp's 1000 bullet-punches, so that's fine.

But I dare Game Freak to draw some bugs and birds on that turtle's back! Make it feel gargantuan.

[Dcubed]

9 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Actually, they do. The Pokédex mentions it a few times. This is the entry from Platinum.

It was even a prominent plot point in the Detective Pikachu movie.

[Cube]

I think this is where I reached the end of watching the show, so these don't have much meaning to me. Torterra is by far the coolest in terms of design and concept. Although large Pokémon have always been a bit odd in terms of the games, which is probably why scale isn't a factor in how the games are designed. 

[bob]

My personal attachment to these starters is basically zero. And I don't find any of them to be that hot.

If it helps, I don't think you're supposed to find any of them hot.

[Glen-i]

7 hours ago, Cube said:

Although large Pokémon have always been a bit odd in terms of the games, which is probably why scale isn't a factor in how the games are designed. 

Obviously, the DS could never pull it off, but Scarlet/Violet have Pokémon to scale, so they're working on it.

Probably why Wailord isn't in that game.

[Ashley]

7 hours ago, bob said:

If it helps, I don't think you're supposed to find any of them hot.

 

Do not look for Vaporeon on the internet

[Glen-i]

15 hours ago, Ashley said:

Do not look for Vaporeon on the internet

Probably the best advice you'll ever see on this thread.

[Glen-i]

Generation 5, or Pokémon Black, White, Black 2, and White 2, are set in Unova. This was the beginning of the series basing the regions off of actual countries (Well, countries that aren't Japan). Unova is based off of America, not that you could ever tell from the starters here.

A key thing to note is that this is the first generation where TM's are infinite use. Like all cool things in Generation 5, this isn't a thing any more. (Another reason Scarlet/Violet sucks), but this is important for viable movesets in the next 4 generations, because you no longer had to consider if using a TM on a Pokémon was worth it.

  

Snivy (SNY-vee) made quite the impression, before we even knew what it's name actually was. A lot of Pokémon fans dubbed it "Smugleaf" when the Unova starters were first revealed. It's actual name is nowhere near as silly.

As far as the early game goes in Black/White, all the starters are equally bad, the second gym is Normal type, and the first gym actually changes it's type purely to counter your choice of starter. So tough beans there. As for the sequel games, Snivy is the only starter that's weak to one of the opening gyms, so it has the rougher start.

Snivy shows up in the fourth Smash Bros and in Smash Ultimate as one of the many Pokémon that can appear from the Poké Ball item. (That's why @BowserBasher knows of it, even if he got the name wrong, he got Piplup right though) It's pretty effective if you get an opponent caught up in the Razor Leaves it throws.
Anyway, nerdy moment here. Snivy can't learn Razor Leaf. Smash needs to get it's act together!

Servine (SUR-vine) is a bigger Snivy, and that's all there is of interest.

Serperior (sur-PEER-ee-ur) is a very strange Pokémon, design wise. It loses the limbs the previous evolutions have. Or does it? You see, the arms are still there, they always have been.

The legs are definitely gone though, so still a strange evolution.

Serperior is also pretty bizarre with it's stat spread. It's got very high speed, but it also focuses more on the defensive stats instead of the offensive ones. Coupled with it's poor movepool, Serperior makes for an awful revenge killer. Honestly, it doesn't really excel at anything instead of hoping to use it's high speed to get a stat boosting move in there, which isn't the most reliable of strategies.
But it does have one party trick, and that comes in the form of it's Hidden Ability, Contrary.
Contrary reverses all stat reductions and gains. So moves that lower stats will raise them instead. Combine this with Leaf Storm, a 140 power Grass move that lowers the Special Attack stat of the user by 2 stages, and you can imagine the devestation it can cause if it gets some momentum.
Don't expect to pull that off in a normal playthrough. Probably the worst choice of starter should you play a Gen 5 game.
The Grass type really can't catch a break.

  

Tepig (TEH-pig) likes to roast berries before eating them, good thing it's a Fire type then.
Not much to say apart from that, so I'll use this opportunity to point out that the base forms of the Unova starters featured quite heavily in the Wii game "PokéPark 2: Wonders Beyond". Alongside Pikachu, they were full fledged playable characters, and actually more useful then Pikachu by a long shot.
That game is solid, BTW. Wish it got more entries.

Pignite (pig-NYTE) gets the Fighting type added to it. Yes, that's now the third Fire starter in a row to become Fire/Fighting. Getting a bit much now.
Also, Pignite and it's evolution are the kind of Pokémon that might be wearing clothes. The series as a whole is kind of vague about whether that's a thing with Pokémon. Machamp is the prime example. The official word on that particular Pokémon is that the pants are actually just a pattern on it's skin.

No-one buys that explanation.

I can't tell if Emboar (EHM-bohr) is meant to be based off of Sumo Wrestling, or the kind of wrestling you'd see in America. You'd think the American variety would be the obvious answer, but given the water starter, I can't be certain.
Anyway, Emboar has an excellent variety of moves thanks to TM's. It has no less then 8 different types of viable endgame attacks. It's positively spoilt for choice!
Great in casual playthroughs, but not good in competitive play. It's speed and defensive stats are just rubbish, so it goes down too quickly.

  

Oshawott (AH-shah-wot) rounds off Gen 5. That scalchop on it's stomach is supposedly quite sharp.
Doesn't look it, but I'll take their word for it.

Oshawott is also in the latest two Smash Bros. titles (Sorry, Tepig). It's the easiest thing ever to dodge, but if it does hit, it can be devestating, and hilarious!

Dewott (DOO-wot) has two scalchops! That's literally all I've got.
OK, not quite. A few people think that Dewott is one of those starters that has a signature move. In this case, Razor Shell. But this isn't the case, even in Gen 5, Shellder could learn it. And that's before the many Pokémon that would co-opt the move in future games.

Samurott (SAM-uh-rot) decides to actually have sharp implements to hit things with. They're hidden in the little sheathes on it's forelegs, and Black 2/White 2 calls them "Seamitars". Why does the American based region have a literal samurai otter? It really bothers me! Feels like it's meant to be in one of the earlier games.

For some bizarre reason, Samurott has slightly higher Special Attack then Attack. It's Attack is still great though, so it's a fantastic choice of starter for a playthrough, especially with it's great TM options, probably the one I would recommend picking.

And yes, I know about that form, much like Typhlosion, I'll cover that later.

So, those are the Gen 5 starters. Design-wise, these are very solid, even if they don't remotely fit in the America style region. I dig them all. I'd say Emboar is my favourite. Something about the fiery beard just makes me smile.

Also Gen 5 as a whole is just the best generation. Game Freak skipped over it, because they're too scared to have to live up to that. And I don't blame them.

Anyway, forgot to post artwork I did for the Gen 4 starters, so I'll just shove it in here.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited April 12 by Glen-i

[Cube]

I don't really know these Pokémon, but if I saw these designs out of context, I would have guessed that they were all early game Pokémon, not starters.

Snivy alone I could see as a starter, but the evolutions just look odd.

[Ike]

Emboars design was inspired from Zhu Bajie from Journey to the West, I believe. Ties in with Infernape.

Definitely not inspired from American wrestling, the Tepig line designs have a Chinese influence.

incineroar is the one based on wrestling.

[Glen-i]

1 minute ago, Ike said:

Emboars design was inspired from Zhu Bajie from Journey to the West, I believe. Ties in with Infernape.

Definitely not inspired from American wrestling, the Tepig line designs have a Chinese influence.

incineroar is the one based on wrestling.

Huh, the more you know. Makes a lot more sense, but still a dreadful fit for Unova.

[EEVILMURRAY]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

Also, Pignite and it's evolution are the kind of Pokémon that might be wearing clothes. The series as a whole is kind of vague about whether that's a thing with Pokémon. Machamp is the prime example. The official word on that particular Pokémon is that the pants are actually just a pattern on it's skin.

No-one buys that explanation.

 

Did they ever address the WWE belt he magically gets when evolving?

[Glen-i]

17 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

Did they ever address the WWE belt he magically gets when evolving?

I assume they meant both the pants and the belt when they claimed that it's part of Machamp's body. They never specified, so I'm gonna go with both.

Still silly. If you don't want people to question why it's there, maybe don't design a Pokémon that's wearing the tightest speedos you ever did see!

EDIT: Found the image!

Spoiler

That image cracks me up, did it have to be pointing at it's crotch?

Here's a rough translation.

Quote

It may look like Machoke and Machamp are wearing underwear, but they’re actually not wearing anything. What looks like underwear is just a pattern. After all, Pokémon don’t wear clothes to begin with, right? ‘It’s not wearing anything!

 

 

Edited March 8 by Glen-i

[BowserBasher]

8 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

Did they ever address the WWE belt he magically gets when evolving?

He must have beat Incineroar for it  I’m sure he must be based of some kind of wrestler. 

[EEVILMURRAY]

4 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Still silly. If you don't want people to question why it's there, maybe don't design a Pokémon that's wearing the tightest speedos you ever did see!

I think there are some even sillier ones. How does Farfatch'd hatch with a leek? Or Cubone with their "mum's" skull, especially when the mum is a Ditto ¬_¬