Metroid Dread

[drahkon]

Acquired the bomb and am now travelling through my most hated chemical in video games: Water  It sucks in all the games (except Rayman Legends) and it sucks here as well  

Anyways, as expected I did the same things as before: E.M.M.I. area, section with no power and powering it up, boss, get new item - order may vary. Not very exciting, to be honest. Good thing that the core gameplay (i.e. movement and shooting) is solid.  

Might end up just like Bowser's Fury: a solid experience for me  

[bob]

I'm intrigued that this has a demo. It really isn't my type of game at all, but given all the praise it's been getting, I really want to give it a try. When I'm back home with my Switch I'll download the demo.

[Kounan]

1 hour ago, bob said:

I'm intrigued that this has a demo. It really isn't my type of game at all, but given all the praise it's been getting, I really want to give it a try. When I'm back home with my Switch I'll download the demo.

Will do the same, as usually I stop playing these games quickly. But anyway, I have to finish something like 30 games before I can start anything new :D.

[drahkon]

Progressed quite a bit and the game got a little better when...

Spoiler

...the E.M.M.I.s got disabled.

Pretty sure this won't last long but for now it's great  

I stand by what I said: It's a Metroid game. I feel like I've played it all before. However, the pace is a lot better. Quicker gameplay and less cryptic exploration make for a much more enjoyable experience.

One big problem I have with Metroid Dread: The difficulty. You know me, I enjoy a difficult game, if it's difficult in the right way. Here, however, it's a matter of enemies hitting hard. Especially bosses. One attacked me for 1 1/2 E-tanks? Didn't even have time to figure out its patterns and I was dead after a few hits. This happened quite often as bosses usually take some time to defeat (duh).
This means that some sections (not only bosses) are just a matter of repeating them again and again to get them right, instead of having some time to figure things out. 

Also: The controls suck at times...The grapple hook is a nightmare and don't get me started with Shinespark  

 

It's not a bad game and I'll hold off my final judgement after I've seen the credits, but so far I simply can't agree with the high scores Metroid Dread got.

[Mokong]

1 hour ago, drahkon said:

Progressed quite a bit and the game got a little better when...

  Spoilers (be careful, I don't know how far I'm into the game) (Hide contents)

...the E.M.M.I.s got disabled.

Pretty sure this won't last long but for now it's great  

I stand by what I said: It's a Metroid game. I feel like I've played it all before. However, the pace is a lot better. Quicker gameplay and less cryptic exploration make for a much more enjoyable experience.

One big problem I have with Metroid Dread: The difficulty. You know me, I enjoy a difficult game, if it's difficult in the right way. Here, however, it's a matter of enemies hitting hard. Especially bosses. One attacked me for 1 1/2 E-tanks? Didn't even have time to figure out its patterns and I was dead after a few hits. This happened quite often as bosses usually take some time to defeat (duh).
This means that some sections (not only bosses) are just a matter of repeating them again and again to get them right, instead of having some time to figure things out. 

Also: The controls suck at times...The grapple hook is a nightmare and don't get me started with Shinespark  

 

It's not a bad game and I'll hold off my final judgement after I've seen the credits, but so far I simply can't agree with the high scores Metroid Dread got.

I actually think the controls are smooth, especially the Shinespark. This the first 2D Metroid where I was able to both figure out and execute Shinespark puzzles on first play

Anyway I have discovered something awesome regards the 2nd big boss fight.

There is a possibile sequence break before that fight that the devs have accounted for in the fight!

 

Spoiler

It is possible to get the Morph Ball Bomb (and grapple beam...you need the GB to get the MBB) Before the Kraid fight.

And if you have the MBB there is a hidden Morph Ball Launcher on the lower level that you can use to launch Samus into Kraid and damage him from the inside!

Def gonna try this on my next play

[drahkon]

22 minutes ago, Mokong said:

I actually think the controls are smooth, especially the Shinespark.

I must disagree, but it is interesting to hear. Usually I don't struggle much with controls but in Metroid Dread I do.  

Quick question: I've just beaten...

Spoiler

...that underwater boss thingy.

How much of the game is left (I won't go for 100%)? Possible to do in 3-4 hours until Bundesliga starts?  

Edited October 30, 2021 by drahkon

[BowserBasher]

8 hours ago, Mokong said:

There is a possibile sequence break before that fight that the devs have accounted for in the fight!

Yeah mentioned this a page or so back too. The fact they put it in there is great. Will have to try it out next time I play. 

[Mokong]

13 hours ago, drahkon said:

I must disagree, but it is interesting to hear. Usually I don't struggle much with controls but in Metroid Dread I do.  

Quick question: I've just beaten...

  Boss spoilers (Reveal hidden contents)

...that underwater boss thingy.

How much of the game is left (I won't go for 100%)? Possible to do in 3-4 hours until Bundesliga starts?  

I'd say that boss is round the half way mark, maybe a little before.

I started up another game on Hard. Main goal is sub 8 hours. Was kinda hopeful for sub 4 but doubt I'll get that now.

I'm at 2 hours 10 mins, just got past the mini boss when you enter Ferenia

Spoiler

The Chozo soldier after you meet Quite Robe.

 

 

Beat him quick enough too as I realised it was possible to Shinespark him Took two Shinesparks but def faster

The main thing I did was I did successfully manage to sequence break the Morph Ball Bomb and got it before the 2nd boss so I did get to use it for the alt insta kill and it was satisfying

I did mess up a bit though that in after I got the bomb I wasn't sure on way back as I was blocked by a Grapple Block from the way I came.

There are two potential ways to sequence break the Bombs, one involves sequence breaking the Grapple Beam first, this seems to be the method that comes up most if you search for it. I decided not to do that cuz there was a lava room withna trick jump that I couldn't get

Found an alt method to get it without Grapple Beam, in spioler tag below.

But on way back as said thought I was stuck without Grapple Beam and thought I had to continue on. Did so and ended up in Burenia and got the Flash Shift and then realised I was stuck without the Diffusion Beam.

Checked map and realised there was an EMMI door that I missed that if I took would have brought me back to route to Cataris.

Unfortunately I used a save room in Burenia so couldn't even just reload so had to make my way back on foot, so that probably cost me the sub 4 time.

Spoiler

To get to the bombs without Grapple Beam, you gotta time this jump just right to hit the drone at the right time so that it bounces you up to grab the ledge. Once you done that you can go up and left, turn on power and get the bombs.

 

To get there in sequence you would need Diffusion Beam to break a wall on right on same room to get up.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonnas]

On 30/10/2021 at 8:46 AM, drahkon said:

Especially bosses. One attacked me for 1 1/2 E-tanks? Didn't even have time to figure out its patterns and I was dead after a few hits. 

Also: The controls suck at times...The grapple hook is a nightmare and don't get me started with Shinespark  

Bosses hit hard, but they also produce a lot of health pickups. If you're low on health, try focusing on retrieving those, or avoiding everything until you get that Melee counter.

The Shinespark controls are fine... It's the Speed Booster that's the problem 

[drahkon]

8 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

Bosses hit hard, but they also produce a lot of health pickups. If you're low on health, try focusing on retrieving those, or avoiding everything until you get that Melee counter.

Oh, I noticed that, too, but I dislike having to switch to 100% defensive mode when the entire pacing is constantly telling you to run and gun. Just personal preference.

Played some more yesterday and acquired...

Spoiler

...the Screwattack.

The game turned for the better once...

Spoiler

...the E.M.M.I.s where shut down.

Enjoyed it quite a bit during that time, but it was obvious that it would change eventually. Now I'm back to "meh".

Feels like I'm kind of close to the end looking at my equipment screen. Maybe I'll finish it today, if I'm right with that assumption.

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, drahkon said:

I dislike having to switch to 100% defensive mode when the entire pacing is constantly telling you to run and gun

 what a strange nitpick.

[Jonnas]

1 hour ago, drahkon said:

Oh, I noticed that, too, but I dislike having to switch to 100% defensive mode when the entire pacing is constantly telling you to run and gun. Just personal preference.

Hm, normally I associate "running" (moving in general) with defensive maneuvers. When I'm all-out attacking, I often forget to dodge. I guess it is a personal thing, like you said.

[drahkon]

4 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

Hm, normally I associate "running" (moving in general) with defensive maneuvers.

Same, but in this case "run and gun" is meant as an offensive maneuver  

 

[Mokong]

And that is my 3rd play done. I swear I am having more fun with this game on every play

Beat Hard mode in 4 hours 24 mins!!!!

Holy frak didn't expect that. Sub 8 hours was a target with 4 a dream, getting so close, def think I can go sub 4 now.

If I didn't take a wrong turn after I sequence broke the Morph Ball Bomb I likely could have gotten just under 4 hours.

 

One thing I was loving on this run was ttying to Shinespark some bosses. Realised even if their boss room didn't have enough to charge a Shinespark some it was possible to do the run from previous room and you could Shinespark at start of fight.

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

That just felt so frakking epic to pull off. That was a solid boss run too, somehow managed to do enough damage in phase 1 he jumped right to phase 2 without a grab sequence.

Tried to see could I Shinespark the final boss, there's def room to charge it in second phase of fight but I just couldn't hit with it. Every time I charged it I would love it from getting hit

 

def be going for a sub 4 hour run next weekend

[Ronnie]

It's so much fun watching clips like that and what speedrunners and sequence breakers can get up to in this game. It's similar to Celeste in that the standard gameplay is obviously brilliant fun on its own, but there's added depth that they don't explain to you for the pros to master.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Ronnie

[LazyBoy]

@Mokong that last one was awesome

Edited October 31, 2021 by LazyBoy

[Mokong]

10 hours ago, LazyBoy said:

@Mokong that last one was awesome

Especially the way the camera pans down. Like it is an extension bof the end fight cutscene. I seen vids of others using Shinespark on him but they did it from the left side hitting from the side. It still looks cool, but the extra camera pan you get from this positioning just adds to it.

Again I love those little touches they have done.

[Ronnie]

That uppercut is definitely cooler than side on.

It's so satisfying spending a dozen tries on a boss and learning their moves inside out, then putting it all to use in one fluid run where you finally beat them, and usually with plenty of health to spare.

[bob]

I gave the demo a go, but it really wasn't for me. I hate side-scrollers, and this didn't have enough other mechanics in it to distract me from the fact that it was one.

[Dufniall]

Boss Keys has a pretty interesting video up about the linearity of Dread, and what mechanisms it uses to accomplish this:

Spoiler warning for those who have not played the game, but if you have this is a nice one to watch. I also felt that Dread was far more linear than other Metroidvanias, but it's cool to see how the devs did so. Although so many one-way routes does feel a bit cheap.

[Dcubed]

Spoiler

It is finally done! (Haven't had much opportunity to play over the last few weeks!)

I finished with about 60% of items; so now it's back to achieve 100% Item Completion...

My big writeup will be coming later on, probably after I get 100% and after 

Spoiler

Hard Mode... And also maybe after a speedrun, or a low% run.

I'll save the big words for later, but needless to say, I've generally loved my time with this game.  Huge improvement over Samus Returns.  It's not my favourite 2D Metroid (that title still belongs to MZM), but it's definitely up there with the best in the series.

A few general things I have to say do bother me though...

Spoiler

Whoever's bright idea it was to have the Speed Booster be tied to a stick click press deserves to be fired; it's not intuitive at all! What was wrong with just having it activate after running for some time like in the GBA games!?!? Bloody annoying! I always keep forgetting to press it, and it's not comfortable to use at all.

Also, while the final battle against Raven Beak was really cool and fun; I was stuck for a good while thinking that I was actually damaging him with the Storm Missiles during his first phase.  Nope.  Turns out that you have to counter him and only during the cutscenes can you actually damage him and trigger the second phase.  Very unintuitive and pretty much completely goes against the boss design seen throughout the rest of the game.  Not the most well designed part of the game really.

Next.  The game's control scheme is overly complicated for no good reason.  There really wasn't a need to use every single button on the Switch controller.  I never ended up getting used to this and constantly found myself pressing the wrong button for the Grapple Beam over and over again; and constantly fumbled with doing finger pretzel motions during battles all the way up until the end.  Sure, it means that you don't need to manually select items one at a time and you can use them all on the fly, but honestly? I'd much rather have had a simplified control scheme and had the classic item menu by cycling with one of the shoulder buttons.  Just because you have a million buttons available, it doesn't mean that you have to, or even should, use them all!

Finally, the new map is actually kinda bad.  I get that Nintendo & Mercury Steam wanted to take advantage of all that shiny HDness and make the map super detailed, but it actually just makes it really cluttered and difficult to read.  I spent so much time scouring the map because I couldn't tell what was what on there! All of the icons are tiny, poorly contrasted and look too similar; and you can tell that the designers realised that this was a problem because they included an icon highlight feature after realising that the icons are too difficult to differentiate from each other.  A huge step backwards from Samus Returns in that regard.  Gimme the good ol' block map of past Metroid titles any day over this mess!

Ultimately though, these are all nitpicks in the grand scheme of things.  I thoroughly enjoyed my time with the game.  It's certainly not perfect by any means, and there are some suspect design choices (not all of which I have mentioned here today; that's for later), but overall, this game is a blast! Amazingly enough, I think it was worth the 19 year wait  

Edit:  Just went back and read through all the Metroid Dread Dev Diaries and watched all of the pre-release trailers... the amount of stuff that Nintendo actually spoilt prior to release is an absolute joke! Dev Diary 6 literally spoils almost every single item in the entire game!  

Edited November 1, 2021 by Dcubed

[MindFreak]

2 hours ago, Dcubed said:

  Clear Time End Screen (Reveal hidden contents)

It is finally done! (Haven't had much opportunity to play over the last few weeks!)

I finished with about 60% of items; so now it's back to achieve 100% Item Completion...

My big writeup will be coming later on, probably after I get 100% and after 

  spoiler (Reveal hidden contents)

Hard Mode... And also maybe after a speedrun, or a low% run.

I'll save the big words for later, but needless to say, I've generally loved my time with this game.  Huge improvement over Samus Returns.  It's not my favourite 2D Metroid (that title still belongs to MZM), but it's definitely up there with the best in the series.

A few general things I have to say do bother me though...

  Mini rant (Reveal hidden contents)

Whoever's bright idea it was to have the Speed Booster be tied to a stick click press deserves to be fired; it's not intuitive at all! What was wrong with just having it activate after running for some time like in the GBA games!?!? Bloody annoying! I always keep forgetting to press it, and it's not comfortable to use at all.

Also, while the final battle against Raven Beak was really cool and fun; I was stuck for a good while thinking that I was actually damaging him with the Storm Missiles during his first phase.  Nope.  Turns out that you have to counter him and only during the cutscenes can you actually damage him and trigger the second phase.  Very unintuitive and pretty much completely goes against the boss design seen throughout the rest of the game.  Not the most well designed part of the game really.

Next.  The game's control scheme is overly complicated for no good reason.  There really wasn't a need to use every single button on the Switch controller.  I never ended up getting used to this and constantly found myself pressing the wrong button for the Grapple Beam over and over again; and constantly fumbled with doing finger pretzel motions during battles all the way up until the end.  Sure, it means that you don't need to manually select items one at a time and you can use them all on the fly, but honestly? I'd much rather have had a simplified control scheme and had the classic item menu by cycling with one of the shoulder buttons.  Just because you have a million buttons available, it doesn't mean that you have to, or even should, use them all!

Finally, the new map is actually kinda bad.  I get that Nintendo & Mercury Steam wanted to take advantage of all that shiny HDness and make the map super detailed, but it actually just makes it really cluttered and difficult to read.  I spent so much time scouring the map because I couldn't tell what was what on there! All of the icons are tiny, poorly contrasted and look too similar; and you can tell that the designers realised that this was a problem because they included an icon highlight feature after realising that the icons are too difficult to differentiate from each other.  A huge step backwards from Samus Returns in that regard.  Gimme the good ol' block map of past Metroid titles any day over this mess!

Ultimately though, these are all nitpicks in the grand scheme of things.  I thoroughly enjoyed my time with the game.  It's certainly not perfect by any means, and there are some suspect design choices (not all of which I have mentioned here today; that's for later), but overall, this game is a blast! Amazingly enough, I think it was worth the 19 year wait  

Edit:  Just went back and read through all the Metroid Dread Dev Diaries and watched all of the pre-release trailers... the amount of stuff that Nintendo actually spoilt prior to release is an absolute joke! Dev Diary 6 literally spoils almost every single item in the entire game!  

I didn't watch any interview or much of the trailers and still wasn't surprised by the powerups. Weren't they pretty much the usual suspects when it comes to Metroid? 

I agree with the controls, I fumbled with them right until the very end and dreaded for GB puzzles. Luckily, it as well as a bunch of other stuff wasnt really used that much. 

[Jonnas]

9 hours ago, Vileplume2000 said:

Boss Keys has a pretty interesting video up about the linearity of Dread, and what mechanisms it uses to accomplish this:

Spoiler warning for those who have not played the game, but if you have this is a nice one to watch. I also felt that Dread was far more linear than other Metroidvanias, but it's cool to see how the devs did so. Although so many one-way routes does feel a bit cheap.

Yeah, I noticed a lot of what he was saying as I first played the game. I figured the one-way routes were a way to keep the player trapped in dangerous zones (like with the EMMI), not to mention, allowing players to more easily reach new fast-paced segments. I thought it worked well only because Dread is so action-focused.

The thing is that it doesn't really stop the game from being sequence broken, or even new players from getting momentarily lost (I did read a lot of impressions that said as much). I do wonder if this sort of design will become more common in the genre because of it.

3 hours ago, Dcubed said:

  Mini rant (Hide contents)

Also, while the final battle against Raven Beak was really cool and fun; I was stuck for a good while thinking that I was actually damaging him with the Storm Missiles during his first phase.  Nope.  Turns out that you have to counter him and only during the cutscenes can you actually damage him and trigger the second phase.  Very unintuitive and pretty much completely goes against the boss design seen throughout the rest of the game.  Not the most well designed part of the game really.

 

Huh

Spoiler

I thought that part was pretty obvious. The sound effects "tink"-ed all over the place. Sure, it took me a while to realise the counter was the one weakness too, but the fact that he wasn't getting damaged in Part 1, 2nd Half (he actually is damaged during the first half, you'll notice) was crystal clear. He laughs and grandstands at you, even.

 

[Dcubed]

10 hours ago, Jonnas said:

Yeah, I noticed a lot of what he was saying as I first played the game. I figured the one-way routes were a way to keep the player trapped in dangerous zones (like with the EMMI), not to mention, allowing players to more easily reach new fast-paced segments. I thought it worked well only because Dread is so action-focused.

The thing is that it doesn't really stop the game from being sequence broken, or even new players from getting momentarily lost (I did read a lot of impressions that said as much). I do wonder if this sort of design will become more common in the genre because of it.

Huh

  Hefty spoiler (Hide contents)

I thought that part was pretty obvious. The sound effects "tink"-ed all over the place. Sure, it took me a while to realise the counter was the one weakness too, but the fact that he wasn't getting damaged in Part 1, 2nd Half (he actually is damaged during the first half, you'll notice) was crystal clear. He laughs and grandstands at you, even.

 

Spoiler

The colour of the aura and effects around him make it very hard to tell if you’re dealing damage or not; since enemies usually flash white if you’re damaging them.

It was only after I pulled off the counter and his aura/colour changed back to grey that I could tell that I was now damaging him.  And I tested my theory out by doing no damage to him outside of counter cutscenes and it turns out that I was right; the only thing that triggers his second phase is the damage you deal during those counter cutscenes.  Anything else is just a waste of missiles.

He’s the only enemy in the whole game that absolutely requires you to counter him to deal damage.

Once the second phase starts though, then you can just damage him normally.

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Dcubed

[Mokong]

Spoiler

I could be wrong, but I am fairly sure the only time he is invincible in the first phase is when he has the gold aura.

I think the other colours lessen the damage he takes but he still takes damage.

I am pretty sure I have triggered the 2nd phase after missing a counter and while doing normal damage.

Also checking speed run advise for the final boss there seems to be a consensus to start by hitting him with exactly 9 missiles.

Anymore and you do too much damage and will trigger his gold aura.

The 9 missiles do just enough damage to trigger a counter move and if you can do enough damage during that (wave beam mashing recommended over missles) you can get to the 2nd phase without triggering the gold aura.