Super Mario 3D All-Stars (RIP)

[drahkon]

Calling "Mr. I'm so good at these Mario games you can call me 'Mr. I'm so good at these Mario games'", also known as @Glen-i
Answer me this, my friend:

In Super Mario Sunshine, is it possible to ignore all blue coins and collect all other shines? I.e. are blue coins actually needed to finish the game?
IIRC, lots of blue coins are locked behind certain abilities/unlocks and because I'm a fucking nutjob, I only want to start collecting them once I have access to all of them.

[Rummy]

4 hours ago, drahkon said:

Calling "Mr. I'm so good at these Mario games you can call me 'Mr. I'm so good at these Mario games'", also known as @Glen-i
Answer me this, my friend:

In Super Mario Sunshine, is it possible to ignore all blue coins and collect all other shines? I.e. are blue coins actually needed to finish the game?
IIRC, lots of blue coins are locked behind certain abilities/unlocks and because I'm a fucking nutjob, I only want to start collecting them once I have access to all of them.

Absolutely yes. I am still baffled by the stupidity of the blue coins - collectibles in Banjo-Kazooie and DK64 worlds made sense but the blue coins are absolutely arbitrary, stupid, and completely irrelevant except I guess essentially being an 'extra quest' type thing. If anything I'd maybe say specifically ignore them all until you come to get them and then use a guide to do so.

(so you wont spend ages going round looking for coins you accidentally already got and forgot)

[Rummy]

On 21/09/2020 at 11:41 PM, Julius said:

Didn't get around to playing yesterday, but played some more 64 this evening. Grabbed another 15 stars, taking my total to 37 now; so far, I've just been going so far as getting the star for the red coins before moving on, because it feels like a good point where I know the level well enough to move on - and if I have to come back at some point for more, it's no big deal! 

Today it was Big Boo's Haunt, Hazy Maze Cave, Lethal Lava Land, and I'm just at the end of Shifting Sand Land getting those red coins. Big Boo's was honestly really charming, with a lot of character, and some fun puzzles. Hazy Maze Cave looked a little bland, but had some fun Stars to get, and an area you can only traverse with a Long Jump was really cool (love the Long Jump!). Lethal Lava Land could get a little annoying as it's quite easy to find yourself falling in the lava, but got used to it after a couple of tries. 

But screw Shifting Sand Land. So. Much. Sinking. Sand. It honestly felt a bit too much at times, especially when it came to traversing outside of the pyramid. And I've lost a lot of 1-Ups there too...

Oh, and the camera has been pretty tough to handle, and on a couple of occasions I feel like I've been fighting the Lakitu for control. It is what it is, and probably the worst part today (as a newcomer) of a game that had aged really well in its mechanics and level design. 

Still having a great time so far 

Tbh the whole chopping and changing in SM64 is what can make it really fun - tho how can you not like Hazy Maze Cave for its Metal Cap Funk??? It can be a horrible level at times(red coins annoying too; if you mess up). It too me a while to get used to Shifting Sand Lands originally but it later became one I actually quite liked(maybe that's because I'd just come from Dire Dire Seriously They Did Mean It With Dire Docks :p) but there's a few hidden little things you can get away with on it that can make it less annoying - tho maybe also takes out the challenge too. I really liked the Boss and Inside the Pyramid generally too tho iirc - tho maybe that IS cos I enjoy the fun of shortcutting

Have you seen the rabbit yet? Also think you're really gonna like some of the upstairs levels when you get there!

[Glen-i]

11 hours ago, drahkon said:

Calling "Mr. I'm so good at these Mario games you can call me 'Mr. I'm so good at these Mario games'", also known as @Glen-i
Answer me this, my friend:

In Super Mario Sunshine, is it possible to ignore all blue coins and collect all other shines? I.e. are blue coins actually needed to finish the game?
IIRC, lots of blue coins are locked behind certain abilities/unlocks and because I'm a fucking nutjob, I only want to start collecting them once I have access to all of them.

You only need 50 specific Shines to reach Bowser. And I do mean specific. If you don't get those Shines, you'll never reach Bowser.

None of them are Blue Coin related.

Spoiler

The first Shine on the Airstrip and the first 7 episodes of each of the 7 main worlds are what you need.

Simply put, you need to do each of the Shines where you chase Shadow Mario.

Oh, and @Rummy. You're totally right. Dire Dire Docks sucks. My least favourite level.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Glen-i

[Rummy]

I dunno I still like it cos of the JRB throwback and the classic water level music - and some of the stars are a fun challenge! It's just the sub door and lack of sub that makes it a bit suck for getting around later - but it still isn't as bad as the last two

(i think i dislike RR because and TTC cos you have to wait on rides or can only go with how the stage was set when you came on relatively - WDW maybe would be more annoying too if it didnt have its in level switches tho).

[Jonnas]

@drahkon, it might be hard to ignore every Blue Coin, as some are just randomly lying around in easy (possibly mandatory) places. I'm also thinking it might be more tedious to search for all of them later instead of grabbing them as they come along... but it's your call, I can't tell you what to enjoy...

...except for all these Super Mario 64 hot takes. What's all this about Dire Dire Docks sucking? Y'all are crazy, that level's great.

[drahkon]

26 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

I'm also thinking it might be more tedious to search for all of them later instead of grabbing them as they come along

Maybe, maybe not.

I just like to start collecting stuff once I actually have access to all abilities (especially when those collectibles are locked behind abilities...)

[Glen-i]

6 hours ago, Jonnas said:

@drahkon, it might be hard to ignore every Blue Coin, as some are just randomly lying around in easy (possibly mandatory) places. I'm also thinking it might be more tedious to search for all of them later instead of grabbing them as they come along... but it's your call, I can't tell you what to enjoy...

...except for all these Super Mario 64 hot takes. What's all this about Dire Dire Docks sucking? Y'all are crazy, that level's great.

It's a more restrictive Jolly Roger's Bay. The 100 coins are incredibly stingy with it's coin amount. (Less than 110) and then there's the sub door which sucks Mario in way stronger than anything else  in the game and spits you out in the castle grounds. So naturally, there's 5 coins placed right near it!

It's awful.

[bob]

I read that if you're aiming for 100%, it's best to leave all the blue coins til the end so you can follow a guide to go around and get them all. It's harder to follow a guide if you've already picked up 70% of the coins.

[Julius]

After putting a few more hours in on Friday night and a decent amount more yesterday, I can now say that I've finished Super Mario 64 for the first time. 

This game is a classic, and even as a first time player nearly 25 years after the game's initial release back on the N64, I could still get an overwhelming sense of just how special this game is: charming and (mostly!) upbeat soundtrack, diverse and masterful course design, and this great sense of exploration all come together into this great game which stands the test of time to this day. Mario himself controls just as tightly as you could want him to, even by modern standards, which is a feat I'm still astonished by after finishing the game.

I feel like a large part of this game's timelessness comes down to just how sprawling some of these areas are, in every direction. You have the wide grassy fields of Bob-omb Battlefield to test and acclimatise your skills and power over the controls, the sweeping depths of Jolly Roger Bay (the water levels in this game are GOOD! I think that's the first time I've ever said that ), and the heights of Whomp's Fortress and Cool, Cool Mountain to experience all of that in the earliest parts of this game. Grabbing Power Stars is a lot of fun, as is familiarising yourself with courses. I generally would at least get to the point where I got the Power Star awarded for collecting for the Red Coins in each course, just because it feels like a good test of your understanding of the course.

And Mario's moveset perfectly complements that. You have the Backflip to get to new heights in tight spaces; the Triple Jump to audaciously flip over obstacles, and keep momentum; the Cartwheel Flip to sharply return to the direction you were running from, then flip over anything in your way; and - my favourite move in the game by far - the Long Jump to instantly thrust yourself through the air at a breakneck pace. Chaining these moves together and gaining some level of mastery over them instills a great sense of awe and accomplishment which feels great to this day. 

The way all of this is accessed is through Peach's Castle, which is an interesting enough place to explore, but my favourite part of Peach's Castle by far is jumping through paintings into new levels, and especially those ones when/where you enter the paintings having an actual impact on the course. It took me a few tries to notice when they were doing this, but once I did, I was honestly taken aback a bit, because it's such a simple thing which could easily go overlooked, yet has such a huge impact in that you can then influence courses once you have it figured out. The level design is fairly consistent in layout, mechanics, and theme, but almost all of them feel distinct, and so you end up with a great catalogue of courses to explore. It just feels so fresh to enter a new course, and even somewhat similar ones (such as Jolly Roger Bay and Dire Dire Docks, or Whomp's Fortress and Tall, Tall Mountain) are spaced far apart in a way that it stills manages to feel fresh. Throw the caps into the mix for good measure and each course feels so different to the next, I really enjoyed that aspect of it. 

All of this being said, my least favourite parts of the game - and those which I think have aged the worst - are those tighter spaces where you can't exhibit this mastery over jumping around and leaping long distances which I feel the stronger courses in the game offer consistently, because it is so difficult to control Mario in those scenarios when you have so little control over the camera. These tighter spaces also typically find themselves matching up with some puzzle platforming, and the camera just doesn't work with you on some occasions where in more modern games it would. It's definitely most noticeable in Tick Tock Clock I feel, which is a shame, because I enjoyed so much of what that level was trying to do (though I have to question why they didn't slow the music down when you slowed the mechanical components in the course...).

It's a shame, it really is my only biggest knock against this game as a first time player. The skill-based platforming far outclasses the puzzle-based platforming in my mind: in more open areas when traversing across narrow spaces (a small land bridge on Tall, Tall Mountain comes to mind) the camera sweeps in this organic way which perfectly matches the gameplay, and in those moments this game is unstoppable.

The only other thing which comes to mind is very minor, and that being forced out of a course after picking up a Star, but I know that's something Odyssey doesn't do. It's not really an issue now that I think about it, and an worst it just helps you familiarise yourself with the courses. 

I understand that this is a port, and that this game is a revered classic with a storied history and longstanding fan base (and as someone who wants to support game preservation and has been wanting to play this game for a long time, I'm glad I've finally got the chance to!), but something as simple as giving the option for more camera control and not having it switch between fixed angles would have modernised this game and done away with what is by far my biggest problem with it. I know that wouldn't have been an option on the N64, but it is now, and I don't think this is at all like the fixed camera angles of the older Metal Gear Solid games. Heck, default it to the classic camera by all means, but in a third-person 3D platformer being ported nearly 25 years after release, again, it would have fixed what is by far my biggest issue with the game. I would have been happy to continue to collecting Stars if not for the camera, but I'm still really happy with how much I enjoyed of the game, and it's certainly not something I'll let sour my experience. I just hope Sunshine's camera will be better!  

But, not wanting to end on a sour note, I've got to mention some of my favourite moments in this game. Tall, Tall Mountain is easily my favourite course of the game, its variety of short and long horizontal areas while spiralling up this huge mountain is awesome. Even falling from way up in the course to near the bottom back at the start didn't feel too bad, because it was just so much fun to run around the course! I would say that discovering the underwater town in Wet-Dry World was one of my favourite moments, and collecting all 8 Red Coins to get that Power Star with some precise platforming was a whole load of fun. It was probably my favourite Power Star to get in the game. Getting frustrated for 30 minutes at being unable to get to the Star above the Thwomp in Tick Tock Clock wasn't so fun, but was fun was taking a short break, and doing it first time when I got back. The most typical gaming thing of all  and lastly, getting to the spinning platform on Rainbow Ride for the second time after not figuring out how to get to the Tricky Triangles area, and taking this enormous Long Jump of faith across the course and landing felt so good. Getting over there and immediately realising that I just couldn't see the path over because of the draw distance from where you start? Certainly gave me a chuckle!

There is so much charm, and fun, and game to this video game. I had such a great time with it, and camera issues aside, it's a timeless classic with movement which I'm sure would make most other 3D platformers - both modern and of the era - blush. 

Look forward to giving Sunshine a go next in the coming weeks! 

[martinist]

Passed the 100 star threshold in Mario 64. Just have Rainbow Ride and Tick Tock Clock to get through now along with the last secret star, the one opposite Rainbow Rides entrance called "Wing Mario over the Rainbow" it's one of those 8 red coin stars with heavy emphasis on the wing cap. After doing all that I just gotta get the 8 red coins during the last bowser level and I'm all done.

Will be the first time I legitimately finished Mario 64 in my life.

[Dcubed]

Man, Mario Sunshine feels awkward without a GCN controller.  The FLUDD controls just feel wrong without the analog shoulder buttons...

Also, whose bright idea was it to reverse the aiming controls and make them non-inverted with no option to change them back to the original inverted controls!? Shit is driving me completely batty!

Playing this game with a standard button orientation really highlights how confusing the standard layout can be.  I keep pressing the wrong button by mistake!

You can really tell that SMS was built around the GCN controller.  It just doesn’t feel right here.

At least the game looks lovely.  Really shines in HD!

Edited September 27, 2020 by Dcubed

[Scratch]

I reached 120 on Galaxy yesterday!  Never played it before, really enjoyed it a lot. I'm gonna save continuing playing Galaxy for a while now. But I do hope they release Galaxy 2 sometime for Switch.

[BowserBasher]

52 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Man, Mario Sunshine feels awkward without a GCN controller.  The FLUDD controls just feel wrong without the analog shoulder buttons...

Also, whose bright idea was it to reverse the aiming controls and make them non-inverted with no option to change them back to the original inverted controls!? Shit is driving me completely batty!

Playing this game with a standard button orientation really highlights how confusing the standard layout can be.  I keep pressing the wrong button by mistake!

You can really tell that SMS was built around the GCN controller.  It just doesn’t feel right here.

At least the game looks lovely.  Really shines in HD!

I agree with this 1000% I got to around 70 stars in 64 and thought I’d start on Sunshine to break it up. Still loving the game after all these years but it just feels off playing with the pro controller. I have the GC one and adapter but if the analogue sticks aren’t used to the fullest then I don’t see the point. They have done an OK job of mapping the buttons but it could hav;e been perfect if they just used the GC one with the analogue triggers. 
Playing Sunshine with the more free roaming camera I do wish we had gotten a 64 remaster to take advantage of things like that. It’s my main gripe of 64. 

[stuwii]

The non fludd levels in Sunshine are very hard , the controls just feel too loose sometimes . Not registering jumps and sliding off platforms for no reason 

[Dcubed]

3 hours ago, stuwii said:

The non fludd levels in Sunshine are very hard , the controls just feel too loose sometimes . Not registering jumps and sliding off platforms for no reason 

Sunshine’s camera really leads to a lot of deaths in the no FLUDD sections because it does such a poor job of giving you a sense of depth.

Playing the game again really makes me pine for a 3DS version, because the depth perception here is just so incredibly poor! I can’t tell how far away objects are from myself! So I keep ending up running off of platforms all the time!

SM64’s camera is much much better than Sunshine’s (and Mario Galaxy is in a whole other league to both of them).

Edited September 28, 2020 by Dcubed

[EEVILMURRAY]

Do it to the whole soundtrack Nintendo. I know you can do it 

 

[Rummy]

16 hours ago, Julius said:

After putting a few more hours in on Friday night and a decent amount more yesterday, I can now say that I've finished Super Mario 64 for the first time. 

This game is a classic, and even as a first time player nearly 25 years after the game's initial release back on the N64, I could still get an overwhelming sense of just how special this game is: charming and (mostly!) upbeat soundtrack, diverse and masterful course design, and this great sense of exploration all come together into this great game which stands the test of time to this day. Mario himself controls just as tightly as you could want him to, even by modern standards, which is a feat I'm still astonished by after finishing the game.

I feel like a large part of this game's timelessness comes down to just how sprawling some of these areas are, in every direction. You have the wide grassy fields of Bob-omb Battlefield to test and acclimatise your skills and power over the controls, the sweeping depths of Jolly Roger Bay (the water levels in this game are GOOD! I think that's the first time I've ever said that ), and the heights of Whomp's Fortress and Cool, Cool Mountain to experience all of that in the earliest parts of this game. Grabbing Power Stars is a lot of fun, as is familiarising yourself with courses. I generally would at least get to the point where I got the Power Star awarded for collecting for the Red Coins in each course, just because it feels like a good test of your understanding of the course.

And Mario's moveset perfectly complements that. You have the Backflip to get to new heights in tight spaces; the Triple Jump to audaciously flip over obstacles, and keep momentum; the Cartwheel Flip to sharply return to the direction you were running from, then flip over anything in your way; and - my favourite move in the game by far - the Long Jump to instantly thrust yourself through the air at a breakneck pace. Chaining these moves together and gaining some level of mastery over them instills a great sense of awe and accomplishment which feels great to this day. 

The way all of this is accessed is through Peach's Castle, which is an interesting enough place to explore, but my favourite part of Peach's Castle by far is jumping through paintings into new levels, and especially those ones when/where you enter the paintings having an actual impact on the course. It took me a few tries to notice when they were doing this, but once I did, I was honestly taken aback a bit, because it's such a simple thing which could easily go overlooked, yet has such a huge impact in that you can then influence courses once you have it figured out. The level design is fairly consistent in layout, mechanics, and theme, but almost all of them feel distinct, and so you end up with a great catalogue of courses to explore. It just feels so fresh to enter a new course, and even somewhat similar ones (such as Jolly Roger Bay and Dire Dire Docks, or Whomp's Fortress and Tall, Tall Mountain) are spaced far apart in a way that it stills manages to feel fresh. Throw the caps into the mix for good measure and each course feels so different to the next, I really enjoyed that aspect of it. 

All of this being said, my least favourite parts of the game - and those which I think have aged the worst - are those tighter spaces where you can't exhibit this mastery over jumping around and leaping long distances which I feel the stronger courses in the game offer consistently, because it is so difficult to control Mario in those scenarios when you have so little control over the camera. These tighter spaces also typically find themselves matching up with some puzzle platforming, and the camera just doesn't work with you on some occasions where in more modern games it would. It's definitely most noticeable in Tick Tock Clock I feel, which is a shame, because I enjoyed so much of what that level was trying to do (though I have to question why they didn't slow the music down when you slowed the mechanical components in the course...).

It's a shame, it really is my only biggest knock against this game as a first time player. The skill-based platforming far outclasses the puzzle-based platforming in my mind: in more open areas when traversing across narrow spaces (a small land bridge on Tall, Tall Mountain comes to mind) the camera sweeps in this organic way which perfectly matches the gameplay, and in those moments this game is unstoppable.

The only other thing which comes to mind is very minor, and that being forced out of a course after picking up a Star, but I know that's something Odyssey doesn't do. It's not really an issue now that I think about it, and an worst it just helps you familiarise yourself with the courses. 

I understand that this is a port, and that this game is a revered classic with a storied history and longstanding fan base (and as someone who wants to support game preservation and has been wanting to play this game for a long time, I'm glad I've finally got the chance to!), but something as simple as giving the option for more camera control and not having it switch between fixed angles would have modernised this game and done away with what is by far my biggest problem with it. I know that wouldn't have been an option on the N64, but it is now, and I don't think this is at all like the fixed camera angles of the older Metal Gear Solid games. Heck, default it to the classic camera by all means, but in a third-person 3D platformer being ported nearly 25 years after release, again, it would have fixed what is by far my biggest issue with the game. I would have been happy to continue to collecting Stars if not for the camera, but I'm still really happy with how much I enjoyed of the game, and it's certainly not something I'll let sour my experience. I just hope Sunshine's camera will be better!  

But, not wanting to end on a sour note, I've got to mention some of my favourite moments in this game. Tall, Tall Mountain is easily my favourite course of the game, its variety of short and long horizontal areas while spiralling up this huge mountain is awesome. Even falling from way up in the course to near the bottom back at the start didn't feel too bad, because it was just so much fun to run around the course! I would say that discovering the underwater town in Wet-Dry World was one of my favourite moments, and collecting all 8 Red Coins to get that Power Star with some precise platforming was a whole load of fun. It was probably my favourite Power Star to get in the game. Getting frustrated for 30 minutes at being unable to get to the Star above the Thwomp in Tick Tock Clock wasn't so fun, but was fun was taking a short break, and doing it first time when I got back. The most typical gaming thing of all  and lastly, getting to the spinning platform on Rainbow Ride for the second time after not figuring out how to get to the Tricky Triangles area, and taking this enormous Long Jump of faith across the course and landing felt so good. Getting over there and immediately realising that I just couldn't see the path over because of the draw distance from where you start? Certainly gave me a chuckle!

There is so much charm, and fun, and game to this video game. I had such a great time with it, and camera issues aside, it's a timeless classic with movement which I'm sure would make most other 3D platformers - both modern and of the era - blush. 

Look forward to giving Sunshine a go next in the coming weeks! 

Bruv; I really enjoyed this post. You mentioned so many moments I expected you to love, too! Obvs I haven't played this version but much(except the camera cos I played at the time - but yes it is certainly outdated) of what you've expressed is very akin to my own affinity with the title. One question - did you ever start utilising somersault+wall jumps? They can sometimes add a nice bit of height and distance - tho ofc as you mention you can long jump everywhere too(especially in races!) - one thing overlooked about SM64 at the time and still now imo is actually the fluidity in the physics engine when it comes to comboing/chaining/interrupting moves - its so clean barely anyone notices.

Really really REALLY loved you enjoying the painting mechanics - specifically found it difficult to contain my excitement in my earlier post knowing you hadn't been upstairs yet without accidentally spoiling Wet Dry World/BigLittleLand/Snowman's World's 'invisible' painting(plus a look at that useless cameraman :p) and then TickTockClock too - all such little bits of charm! So glad you loved the experience

[Rummy]

In fact - I spoke of arsebastard stars earlier but here's a Q for you @Julius(assuming you got all 120) - what were your top 5 or top 10 stars to chase?? I honestly feel like I can play this game in my head lol so I'm loving people's experiences. It's kind of what's so mad about it(no not you Sunshine and your blue coin buffoonery) - despite having 120 stars in it youu almost can easily remember/recall each one. Probably aided again by that 'shunting' out of the level between stars(and I understand why it was done in parts) but it'll be interesting to hear from you! I also btw never partocularly liked Tall Tall when I was younger because I found the stars hard - but the monkey the slide the ascension idea etc is pretty cool. Not a favourite(and being quite...brown and stony its kinda boring) but I came to appreciate it far more when I was playing through when I was older. Hell, if you like go and rate all 15 courses in order! I love seeing others' appreciatons for games I love

[Scratch]

Just playing some Super Mario Sunshine. I've competed it a couple of times (minus the Blue Coins, I'm going to get my revenge on them this time lol). Could you always not long jump in it? I don't remember noticing not being able to do that last time I played it. O_o

[BowserBasher]

32 minutes ago, Sckewi said:

Just playing some Super Mario Sunshine. I've competed it a couple of times (minus the Blue Coins, I'm going to get my revenge on them this time lol). Could you always not long jump in it? I don't remember noticing not being able to do that last time I played it. O_o

Yeah. The long jump is kinda replaced by the hover nozzle, though really it’s just not the same. You can do the forward slide and jump move which is a bit more like it. Run, press Y to dive forward, then press the jump button. 

[Rummy]

5 hours ago, Sckewi said:

Just playing some Super Mario Sunshine. I've competed it a couple of times (minus the Blue Coins, I'm going to get my revenge on them this time lol). Could you always not long jump in it? I don't remember noticing not being able to do that last time I played it. O_o

One thing I will say for Sunshine - and I hated it at the time but came to appreciate them more later - the red coin tasks are very frustrating in some places but they're still infinitely better than blue coins and very satsifying when you finally manage them. I think I only played sunshine once/twice through; and they were some of the most challenging shines iirc. Definitely have some weird torturous memories at the back of me head of disappearing sand blocks and time limits...

[drahkon]

Started my FUCK YOU, BLUE COINS! I'LL NEVER COLLECT YOU play through of Super Mario Sunshine.

10 Shines in.

For whatever reason, I remembered the Sand Bird Red Coins shine to be quite difficult. It wasn't. I'm the best.

[Glen-i]

10 hours ago, drahkon said:

For whatever reason, I remembered the Sand Bird Red Coins shine to be quite difficult. It wasn't. I'm the best.

It's difficult until you figure out the tell that the bird is gonna turn 90 degrees, and it does so slowly that if you on the neck, it's a piece of cake to stay on.

I only died once, and that's because the clouds in Sunshine are completely solid for some silly reason. So I dived into the side and bounced off of it to my death.

[drahkon]

Finished it. No Blue Coins, no optional Shines.
I liked this game a lot more as a kid. Playing through Super Mario Sunshine now is not very fun.

Did capture a couple of highlights, though:

(I actually remember this happening when I played the Game Cube version as a child)