COVID-19 (The artist formally known as Coronavirus)

[Rummy]

31 minutes ago, Goafer said:

I think that's the thing with leaders. When people aren't sure what to do, they turn to the leaders for an example. When our leaders are changing their mind every 5 minutes and telling us to "Eat out to help out", "go back to work" and god knows what else, then telling us that we need to play by the rules to avoid another lockdown, is it any wonder no one knows what to do or isn't taking it seriously? 

Add the Dominic Cummins thing on top and they've made an absolute joke of the whole thing. No one is taking it seriously and you can hardly blame them when the very people we turn to for leadership aren't either.

Curiously on this note I've been wondering - how many people here have got/are getting the tracking app? What are you reasons for your choices if so if not or even if just indifferent?

[Jonnas]

Is Cummings the government official who broke the government's own policy on Covid to bring his kids to another house? I recall reading a news story on the subject a while back.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Jonnas

[Rummy]

23 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

Is Cummings the government official who broke the government's own policy on Covid to bring his kids on another house? I recall reading a news story on the subject a while back.

Yep. A long way too. He also took a luxury trip to Barnard Castle(and some sources will even tell you he was up there signing secret deals with Roche - but who am I to consider the ethics of Big Pharma when they heal us all right?) and all sorts. Shady fellow imo; but I'll just chuck a top google result in for ye.

Also btw...he DROVE to Barnard Castle to 'Test his eyesight'. He thought he may not be able to see properly so he got inside a vehicle with his wife and kids and drove them over there to 'test his eyesight'.

Apparently opticians are a thing of the past; and whilst the mildest of medicines would advise you not to drive or operate heavy machinery - if you think you have poor eyesight the most sensible and rational thing to do is to load your family up into the car and go for a wee little drive in an area you don't even live. Then look at a castle.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/52828076

[Rummy]

Technically a 'special adviser' btw not a govt official - but tbh the ideas of official and order seem to be getting blurred as is the point - resulting in chaos amongst those expected to follow the rules.

[Jonnas]

Quote

In his prepared statement at the recent press conference Mr Cummings said: "For years I have warned of the dangers of pandemics. Last year I wrote about the possible threat from coronaviruses and the urgent need for planning."

Journalists quickly found a blog by the adviser from last year that mentioned SARS a single time. But it was soon established by a bit of internet sleuthing that the blog had been edited to contain this coronavirus reference on the evening of 14 April this year, the day Mr Cummings returned to work from Durham. When originally published it had contained just a link to another article.

Mr Cummings has not revealed why he made the edit when he did.

Holy shit, this part's hilarious. That last sentence does it for me, the sheer deadpan "This man has yet to give an excuse to this thing we just found".

[Rummy]

41 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

Holy shit, this part's hilarious. That last sentence does it for me, the sheer deadpan "This man has yet to give an excuse to this thing we just found".

Yeah. Kinda hard to want to trust that the people telling us what to do are trustworthy and have our actual collective macro best interests at heart over their own individual micro selfish/egotistical ones isn't it?

[Dog-amoto]

This comic from Viz a couple of months ago had me howling with laughter. Can’t find it in its entirety but the general gist is that Dominic Cummings is operating this mechanical arse that shits on people from a great height from Barnard Castle, and Boris solves the mystery by hastily drawing the word “Opti-shun” on the castle door and deducing that Cummings was merely providing brown coloured eye drops to the public, declaring him a public hero. 

 

[Ronnie]

6 hours ago, Rummy said:

Nice post edit following my response to try and make yourself look better there Ronnie. I will sure be remembering to use the 'quote' function for you in future - interesting to see in this discussion you are of the 'dirty delete' brigade whilst also complaining elsewhere of cancel culture. But hey, you keep doing you. People here love it.

What are you talking about.

I added "There's a greater cause here than sticking two fingers up to the government." maybe 45 seconds after my original post, certainly not after your reply and nothing to do with making myself look better, just an additional point I thought I'd add, shortly after my original post. 

As for the actual subject matter, seems we disagree, and that's fine. No need for the usual sniping.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Ronnie

[Rummy]

40 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

No need for the usual sniping.

Glad we agree across the board. Do keep yourself behaving according to the measure you accord to others - that was the point we were actually making after all!

Back to it tho - peoples thoughts on the Covid app? Are folks downloading it or not? I presume most of us here are fairly tech aware and whatnot so I'm curious how many are actually going to choose to engage, actively avoid, or remain indifferent?

[Dog-amoto]

The 2200 closing of pubs is insane. All it does is move a lot of people out on to the streets/public transport/off licences at the same time. If they insist on keeping them open (probably to appease leading virologist, Tim Martin) then really they should be allowed to open 24 hours. At least then you’re staggering the times that people spill out onto the streets.

[Rummy]

1 hour ago, Dog-amoto said:

The 2200 closing of pubs is insane. All it does is move a lot of people out on to the streets/public transport/off licences at the same time. If they insist on keeping them open (probably to appease leading virologist, Tim Martin) then really they should be allowed to open 24 hours. At least then you’re staggering the times that people spill out onto the streets.

I kinda agree(tho not been to a pub too much recently) - the blanket EVERYONE out at 10pm surely just concentrates peoples and crowds? Not sure what it's like for people locally genenerally but a pub tends to be much bussier at 21.30 than 23.30 if kickout is half hour after - besides which the last orders/doors around my ends can vary depending where you're at - surely encouraging everyone to go home on public transport(hope too many arent driving!) at the same time again encourages the virius' potential?

 

Apparrently on top of that the 22.00hrs thing actually never had any basis in anything - govt set it arbitrarily. Again - how do you expect people to have faith in a govt. or rules that seem to be laid out without any real justifiable rationale?

[Rummy]

Was back on the ol' LBC and Maajid Nawaaz yesterday as still at my mums(last 10 mins);

https://vocaroo.com/16dEt7mtQaS6

https://www.globalplayer.com/catchup/lbc/uk/b8FPiKG/

 

The idea/topic was about how apparently companies are surveilling people who work from home? I'm obvs idle atm due to covid and health etc. so not working/able to compare or relate to it - but has anybody found themselves in WFH situations where you employer is still breathing down your neck??

(if you listen to whole show it is 3 hours with the topics hour by hour so tune into the last hour to get a better/fuller debate than just me talking; a lot of good points made by some of the callers)

[Will]

Quite enjoying your weekly spot on LBC, @Rummy. Anything you’re looking forward to covering next time?

It’s an interesting topic and I’ll probably listen to the whole thing when I have time. I think a lot of it comes down people being of their time and what they value. I’d say we’re coming to the end of people who value time at work to being almost fully into a situation of people that value things done at work. Interestingly Asia (in my experience) is still very much in the mindset of valuing time at work regardless of whether you’re actually doing anything or not. Even so, I think it would be a red flag for me to get the hell out of any company that was surveilling people on what they were doing right now.

Personally I’m very much of the opinion that people just need to get there obligated work done by the time they say they will and outside of that they can do whatever the hell they want.

22 hours ago, Rummy said:

Back to it tho - peoples thoughts on the Covid app? Are folks downloading it or not? I presume most of us here are fairly tech aware and whatnot so I'm curious how many are actually going to choose to engage, actively avoid, or remain indifferent?

I’d definitely use it in the UK as there are so many people you could come into contact with I’d rather have some form of potential warning when my risk levels are higher and I should stay away from vulnerable friends and family. I also trust that the level of incompetence in the government is such that I don’t have anything to worry about from their mis-use of any data.

Here in Singapore I’ve actively steered clear of the app. There are so many other things they track about us and through sheer manpower of government workers I believe they could, if they wanted, mis-use the data in a way I would not be happy about.

[Cube]

I don't trust the company behind the app. The company behind it isn't big or component enough for it, they were  picked due to the owner being friends with the government and being given a contract greater than their white worth. Then the NHS name was slapped onto it to mislead people.

 

The app itself should be far more anonymous, the code more open and the data being done by a trusted independent third party.

 

The data is 100% going to be misused.

[Raining_again]

I have the NI app, but I don't rely on it, its effectiveness is only as honest as everyone around us, and i have heard of many many people not abiding by the isolation rules, even some with damn positive tests, so that kinda renders it useless. 

Work are screwing me over again.  I sat in a temp desk, the people in that space have come back to work today, they're sitting in the other seats that are not 2m away from my seat.  They have NO COMPUTERS there so literally NO NEED to be in there.  They could work at fucking home with paperwork for the love of god.  We're already in a room that's not covid safe without adding 2 people in.  My boss has swapped with me for the time being, his desk is 2m away from seated people but its a high traffic area so people are walking by me, and they aren't wearing any face coverings while doing so.  Boss has asked his boss to authorise me WFH, but I know she will do anything to avoid that.  

Alright last time I got a cold I had a breathing crisis and nearly died.  I got a flu in December that nearly went for round 2 (not covid), I have health complications that I'm still living with from both of those events.  I'm just emotionally worn out, tired of constantly having to fight battles just to have a safe working environment.  Oh and we have had a potential case today, one of our girls went home sick earlier on with a bad headache and a raging cough. 

[Ashley]

3 hours ago, Cube said:

The app itself should be far more anonymous, the code more open and the data being done by a trusted independent third party.

The code is on GitHub...

[Rummy]

14 hours ago, Will said:

Quite enjoying your weekly spot on LBC, @Rummy. Anything you’re looking forward to covering next time?

It’s an interesting topic and I’ll probably listen to the whole thing when I have time. I think a lot of it comes down people being of their time and what they value. I’d say we’re coming to the end of people who value time at work to being almost fully into a situation of people that value things done at work. Interestingly Asia (in my experience) is still very much in the mindset of valuing time at work regardless of whether you’re actually doing anything or not. Even so, I think it would be a red flag for me to get the hell out of any company that was surveilling people on what they were doing right now.

Personally I’m very much of the opinion that people just need to get there obligated work done by the time they say they will and outside of that they can do whatever the hell they want.

I’d definitely use it in the UK as there are so many people you could come into contact with I’d rather have some form of potential warning when my risk levels are higher and I should stay away from vulnerable friends and family. I also trust that the level of incompetence in the government is such that I don’t have anything to worry about from their mis-use of any data.

Here in Singapore I’ve actively steered clear of the app. There are so many other things they track about us and through sheer manpower of government workers I believe they could, if they wanted, mis-use the data in a way I would not be happy about.

lol - depends if I'm still at my mum's and she's listening or reminds me about the show! I always give her a shout as its mostly the only reason I listen/call - I may call in again if the Armenian stuff comes up(and Maajid has a good history of islamic geopolitics iirc) but I'd really like I said have to do some reasearch into the topic even at a base level before I comment on it - the suggestion of Erdogan flaming conflict to stretch Russia is curious to my militant/martial views on society and our potential future progression; but that's really not for here

I'm with you on the 'get work done' aspect. We see increasing moves to 'gig economy' too which is probably what we need - the issue is we still need to have sensible legal and human rights protections to workers(sick, holiday, company benefits etc) - but the current way systems work they just are not set up for that and ofc companies/corporations mostly on average are driven by bottom lines - which is actually why I think it's weird you'd hardcore surveil workers in lockdown; its surely not going to be good for mental health and subsequent productivity? Or maybe it is again a thing about squeezing out worker efficiency for maximum profit per time unit of worker etc - if they dont observe work rate how can they get more out of it etcetc.? I can sort of see the balance but I really think home surveillance for covid WFHers is going too far for a productive work environment. Resent can be a powerful force in people.

 

Curious hearing people's thoughts on the app - I too am dissuaded by it due to our Govt's arrogant handling of it AND it being technically in private hands. I understand the data is pseudoanonymised etc and you'd have to be determined to crack it open etc - but in the currrent age of big data and not enough real legal safeguards(plus Brexit removing us from GDPR and potentially holding new laws to come in future that could potentially be retrospectively/retroactively applied to the data etc) against it in my feeling I am not keen to get the app. Even understanding much of what it does and how it works - I'm becoming a big big data and ethics skeptic. I feel our tech/science is marching faster than our societal ethics around the tech is keeping up - but this is something that it seems often tends to happen with all new techs and revolutions over history? So we may just be going through the growing pains - I just feel unkeen not knowing where it goes next.

I realise whilst rationalised some of that is, by some people's measures, silly and nonsensicle. However this I guess is part of the original point I was elaborating - erosion of public trust in authority leads to various and increasing forms of non-compliance. Trying to heavy hand it after this seems to make it worse?

 

[Rummy]

Btw a few here will know I study and self-teach a fair few things these days with maths and logic being a bit of a focus/love of mine(mainly classic paradoxes too). However there is an absolute legend of a guy I came across recently very young for a a Professor but I love his stuff(he was doing daily 'Ask Maths Anythings' and it was all mostly at understandable school level essentially then went weekly and stopped a bit cos...hes still a Prof and has work to do but Covid got in the way too).

 

For anyone who might be curious to learn, in a pretty common sense and visual sort of way(Prof Po is so good for that), about some of the mathematical ideas/modellings/approaches being taken to Covid here's a vid he did back ij March iirc(~hour and a half long). Srsly love Prof Po Shen;

 

[Rummy]

More confusion for the public from the leaders...🤦🏾‍♂️

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/29/tories-competence-questioned-as-minister-fails-to-clarify-lockdown-rules

[Cube]

Local lockdown for me. Although not much will change for me anyway. Although technically I should be working from home from Friday so I'll see what the boss says. Hopefully numbers will go down by the time my holiday is due.

[Glen-i]

Welp, Donald Trump just tested positive for Covid.

Anyway, who here's playing Super Mario Bros 35? It's crazy fun!

Edited October 2, 2020 by Glen-i

[Julius]

2 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Welp, Donald Trump just tested positive for Covid.

I hope he recovers, I wouldn't wish ill health on anyone. 

But the irony isn't lost on me, and I would hope this would make him take it more seriously (it won't). 

There is a niggling thought in the back of my mind, though, that this is some kind of stunt, and it speaks to the ignorant malice of Trump that this would even cross my mind for a moment.

This administration has been everything except honest, so it's hard to not have that doubt lingering: is it really that farfetched to think that they would announce Trump as testing positive to avoid the next debate, before he can come back in a few weeks, having "fully recovered", and say "coronavirus is weak, it wasn't even that bad"? It's something his supporters would certainly lap up. 

Hate that's where my mind goes, but here we are 

[drahkon]

My sister tested positive for Covid. I've spent a few hours with her last Saturday so chances are I have it, too, especially since I've been sick since Tuesday.

Contacted my doctor and they told me I have to wait until the local health authorities get in touch with my sister and eventually with me
???
Why can't I just get tested?

Anyway, already notified my best friend. I've spent Sunday evening at his place.
And my flat mates are in the know, as well.

Thankfully this is all the contact I have these days.

Edited October 2, 2020 by drahkon

[Goafer]

On 22/09/2020 at 8:55 PM, Goafer said:

Looks like I've been selected for a random test as part of a Imperial College London study. Figured I may as well take part, as it only involves a quick survey and doing a home test. I suppose it would be nice to verify that I don't have it and if it helps a study, then we all win.

Got my results. All clear. Pretty much as expected really, given that I didn't have any symptoms.

It did occur to me that maybe I shouldn't have done the test, as maybe others need it more and my test would just be an extra one to process for a system that's already struggling.

My reasoning is that this study was by Imperial College London and probably isn't being carried out by the same staff that are struggling to keep up with "normal" tests not sure how accurate that is though.

 

[Goafer]

3 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Welp, Donald Trump just tested positive for Covid.

Here's hoping Melania makes a full and speedy recovery.