drahkon Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, Sheikah said: I've said before but BC is important as a method to ease the transition between generations but beyond that it is of little concern to most. Oh sure, BC as in "play the games from the previous generation". And we all know that we'll be able to with the PS5. Games from further back, as shown in the chart, are barely worth mentioning with regards to BC, though.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sheikah said: This sounds like a perfect way to combat scalpers in a situation where stock will be limited. Did you consider that as a possibility, or just default to the worst possible assumption? Hardly combating scalpers, presumably this will be a small fraction of the general pre-order numbers. Still weird marketing to put out when everyone is bored of waiting about dates and prices.
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ronnie said: Hardly combating scalpers, presumably this will be a small fraction of the general pre-order numbers. Still weird marketing to put out when everyone is bored of waiting about dates and prices. Of course it would be combating scalpers. If you need to have historical activity on your PlayStation account to get the invite link then it's not like you can create a bunch of new accounts right now to buy a lot of consoles this way and sell the consoles on eBay. We don't know how many or even if the first wave of consoles will be sold any other way in the US. But for the invite method at least, the stock will at least be going to the fans. I have seen comments that this invite system is ensuring people who are already enamoured with the system will be the ones who get it, and that they will then leave positive reviews. I don't really buy that - people who already like PlayStation are already going to buy one anyway, and it doesn't feel like Sony need the positive spin after their recent showings. This actually feels like something they're doing because they anticipate stock will be low due to the COVID situation. Edited September 1, 2020 by Sheikah
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) I got the impression this will end up being like 1% of worldwide stock and is just a bit of marketing PR to get people talking. Edited September 1, 2020 by Ronnie
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I got the impression this will end up being like 1% of worldwide stock and is just a bit of marketing PR to get people talking. But what percentage of US stock will it be? Worldwide is not a fair comparison as so far this invite scheme is only limited to the US. If stock ends up being plentiful in the US after all then Sony should rightfully get called out for this. However due to COVID we know that manufacturing parts have been in short supply and that Sony have recently upped production of their consoles. It's not unreasonable to believe that they're being truthful that they expect some shortages for the console. And I say this knowing that Sony's systems don't usually sell out at launch.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Sheikah said: And I say this knowing that Sony's systems don't usually sell out at launch. The PS3 didn't sell out at launch but that was a disaster on their part, but the PS4 did. Edit: yes the PS3 also sold out at launch 17 minutes ago, Sheikah said: But what percentage of US stock will it be? I just mean this pre-order thing will account for a small fraction of total units, both in the US and certainly worldwide. It's not done to combat scalpers it's done to get people talking on this drip feed hype train they're on. Edited September 1, 2020 by Ronnie
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, Ronnie said: I just mean this pre-order thing will account for a small fraction of total units, both in the US and certainly worldwide. It's not done to combat scalpers it's done to get people talking on this drip feed hype train they're on. Got any proof for that comment?
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Sheikah said: Got any proof for that comment? It's an opinion, of course I don't have any proof. Do you have any proof they do it to combat scalpers? It's the same reason any company gives someone a chance of being first in line, or winning something eagerly anticipated, it's done for buzz. Now I could be wrong and you'll only be able to buy the console direct from Playstation, and this pre-order thing accounts for half of their stock, but I'd be surprised.
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, Ronnie said: It's an opinion, of course I don't have any proof. Do you have any proof they do it to combat scalpers? It's the same reason any company gives someone a chance of being first in line, or winning something eagerly anticipated, it's done for buzz. Now I could be wrong and you'll only be able to buy the console direct from Playstation, and this pre-order thing accounts for half of their stock, but I'd be surprised. Well in defence of this being to combat scalpers and low stock - first, they said as much (that the preorder system is due to anticipated low stock). Second, the COVID situation will have impacted production, and third, we saw that they have increased production of the consoles, suggesting they think they didn't have enough stock to meet demand. So for me it's not a big leap to think that low stock is the primary reason they're doing this. I don't doubt for a second that if it was Nintendo doing this scheme for a Switch Pro that you'd be backing them all the way. Regarding the last bit you said, I expect retailers will sell PS5s as well but this scheme will at least give fans another way to get their hands on a console when stock may be hard to come by.
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ronnie said: The PS3 didn't sell out at launch but that was a disaster on their part, but the PS4 did. Edit: yes the PS3 also sold out at launch Can I also just point out that you are proving my point for me, so thanks. As you've shown, their console can sell out (seemingly region-specific, but still). As such, the basis that this scheme is to combat low stock (and scalpers therefore cashing in) has substance.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Not really seeing any proof, just opinions. imo, this is pure FOMO from Sony, something I know @drahkon isn't a fan of. And that's putting aside the dubious tactic of getting people invested without even telling them the price. 3 minutes ago, Sheikah said: I don't doubt for a second that if it was Nintendo doing this scheme for a Switch Pro that you'd be backing them all the way. Not at all. I wasn't even going to bring this weird move up till I read a questionable comment about how Sony have been nailing marketing. If Xbox had done this would you be backing them? Unlikely. Same with backwards compatibility, I doubt you'd be excusing Xbox if the roles were reversed, so don't play the tedious console war card please because you're not one to talk.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Can I also just point out that you are proving my point for me, so thanks. You said Playstation consoles don't sell out, but the last couple have. Most consoles sell out at launch, even with the Wii U did, and probably the Vita too. ok maybe not 5 minutes ago, Sheikah said: As you've shown, their console can sell out (seemingly region-specific, but still). As such, the basis that this scheme is to combat low stock (and scalpers therefore cashing in) has substance The scheme is to offer up a reward for their biggest fans and get people itching to pre-order even more. Nothing to do with scalpers. It's just basic PR in the run-up to any launch. Edited September 1, 2020 by Ronnie
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Ronnie said: Not really seeing any proof, just opinions. I gave you 3 good reasons that suggest stock will probably be low - whereas your opinion is based on nothing other than you unfettered hatred of Sony. 1 minute ago, Ronnie said: imo, this is pure FOMO from Sony, something I know @drahkon isn't a fan of. And that's putting aside the dubious tactic of getting people invested without even telling them the price. That bolded bit is just not true though, is it? You make it sound as though people are handing over their credit card details up front and committing to a payment without knowing the price. By the time they will be offered the chance to pay they'll know the price. If they don't want to pay whatever Sony ask for it then they don't have to. 1 minute ago, Ronnie said: Not at all. I wasn't even going to bring this weird move up till I read a questionable comment about how Sony have been nailing marketing. If Xbox had done this would you be backing them? Unlikely. Same with backwards compatibility, I doubt you'd be excusing Xbox if the roles were reversed, so don't play the tedious console war card please because you're not one to talk. You only have to compare the views and social media metrics of Sony's announcements compared to Microsoft's to see who is handling marketing better. Sony have also nailed their games showings; in contrast, this has been a bit of a disaster for Microsoft, who embarrassingly have had to delay Halo Infinite next year and stand to launch their system with no exclusive software. 8 minutes ago, Ronnie said: You said Playstation consoles don't sell out, but the last couple have. Then you've just proven that in some regions this console will probably sell out, based on past experience. The basis of "low stock" as a means for launching this scheme therefore has substance. In fact, even if Sony's motives for launching this scheme are not honest, the fact remains that this scheme is ultimately "good" if it means fans have a better chance of getting a console if stock ends up being low.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sheikah said: I gave you 3 good reasons that suggest stock will probably be low I didn't ask you for proof that stock would be low, I asked you as a rebuttal to you asking me for proof, whether you knew for a fact that Sony were doing this to combat scalpers and not just another PR milestone on their hype train. Obviously stock will be low, we've known that for ages. 4 minutes ago, Sheikah said: That bolded bit is just not true though, is it? You make it sound as though people are handing over their credit card details up front and committing to a payment without knowing the price. By the time they will be offered the chance to pay they'll know the price. If they don't want to pay whatever Sony ask for it then they don't have to. Sure, but the trouble is by that point they'll have been selected as a lucky winner to pre-order the console. Don't underestimate the lure of being drawn in with this supposedly rare chance to get a PS5 at launch before anyone else. 7 minutes ago, Sheikah said: You only have to compare the views and social media metrics of Sony's announcements compared to Microsoft's to see who is handling marketing better. Sony have also nailed their games showings; in contrast, this has been a bit of a disaster for Microsoft, who embarrassingly have had to delay Halo Infinite next year and stand to launch their system with no exclusive software. This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Any excuse to have a dig at Xbox though, eh? 7 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Then you've just proven that in some regions this console will probably sell out, based on past experience. Ok? 9 minutes ago, Sheikah said: The basis of "low stock" as a means for launching this scheme therefore has substance. Or, the opposite is true. It'll sell out regardless. They're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, "Be the first to pre-order, just sign up your details here and we'll see if you play enough Playstation games to be in with a chance", it's just marketing spin. But hey, two viewpoints. We've no ida which is correct.
Julius Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Man you two must love talking to each other, every time I come in here it's all I see just teasing though guys, you've both got good points 1 hour ago, drahkon said: And I really hope some people here will never buy a PS5 given the disdain they have for what's been announced/not announced. The incessant complaining and bringing up old news is annoying as hell, especially when most discussions start on a positive note. It's always Sony... Yeah, I've noticed this a lot too, I think it's a little unfortunate. I just hope it's because of us still being light on info about the console and games (a criticism which I think is fair to bring up at this point), and calms down once the console has launched and people are enjoying next gen. PlayStation have killed it this gen with the PS4 and have come out with several first party titles which could be argued to be amongst the best released this generation, but you wouldn't tell it from some of the discussions that go on here. I don't want to start arguments with anyone so I normally stay quiet over it, because I do think there are some genuinely good conversations to be had about what PlayStation can and should do to improve, but the same goes for Nintendo and Xbox. I know this is a Nintendo-focused site and forum, but at the end of the day the Switch is killing it just like the PS4 did, yet how they're discussed on here couldn't be any more different. There are strengths and weakness to all three console manufacturers and their first party titles, and how they handle things, all of which I feel should be discussed a bit more evenly than they are at the moment. The biggest problem I see discussed over in the Xbox thread might be its lack of titles, but it looks like everyone - even those without an Xbox - WANTS there to be more titles and for Xbox to succeed, if only for their fellow forum users who have an Xbox! I think that's great. But at the same time, fans of PlayStation in this thread point to and call out issues they want to see improved, but the discussion always seems to become muddied and a bit on the negative side, even from those who don't own/seemingly have little interest in owning a PlayStation, as you mentioned drahkon. I just want to play games and talk about them with other people who like to play games, couldn't care less about which console they're playing games on 1
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Julius said: Man you two must love talking to each other, every time I come in here it's all I see just teasing though guys, you've both got good points I think the conversation has run its course anyway, from me anyway. 1
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) Apologies up front for the shit show that this is becoming. 13 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I didn't ask you for proof that stock would be low, I asked you as a rebuttal to you asking me for proof, whether you knew for a fact that Sony were doing this to combat scalpers and not just another PR milestone on their hype train. Obviously stock will be low, we've known that for ages. Well I asked for proof purely because you stated it so resolutely. But really, I was getting you to rethink in light of the evidence that stock will likely be low (which you agree on). If stock is going to be low, this scheme will mean that fans have a chance of getting hold of one; and not scalpers. This for me validates the existence of such a scheme. Quote Sure, but the trouble is by that point they'll have been selected as a lucky winner to pre-order the console. Don't underestimate the lure of being drawn in with this supposedly rare chance to get a PS5 at launch before anyone else. If stock will be low then they'll sell all their consoles anyway. So why do they need a scheme to increase the chances of selling their consoles through FOMO tactics? See, your general argument does not seem logically sound. Quote This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Any excuse to have a dig at Xbox though, eh? Yes it does - you said that you objected to Sony's marketing being good. Their marketing has been good so far and can be measured against their competitor by a bunch of different metrics. Quote Or, the opposite is true. It'll sell out regardless. They're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, "Be the first to pre-order, just sign up your details here and we'll see if you play enough Playstation games to be in with a chance", it's just marketing spin. But hey, two viewpoints. We've no ida which is correct. If it will sell out anyway why bother with this scheme, if it existed purely to drum up marketing to lead to console sales? Edited September 1, 2020 by Sheikah
Happenstance Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Julius said: and calms down once the console has launched and people are enjoying next gen. It won't, it's the same old shit.
drahkon Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Julius said: I know this is a Nintendo-focused site and forum, but at the end of the day the Switch is killing it just like the PS4 did, yet how they're discussed on here couldn't be any more different. At least with Sony there's something to talk about. Nintendo doesn't release games anymore so no talk can be had 5 minutes ago, Julius said: fans of PlayStation in this thread point to and call out issues they want to see improved, but the discussion always seems to become muddied and a bit on the negative side, even from those who don't own/seemingly have little interest in owning a PlayStation, as you mentioned drahkon. Yeah, it's tiring But not something we should dive deeper into. Especially not in this thread. It's been derailed way too many times already. 6 minutes ago, Julius said: but it looks like everyone - even those without an Xbox - WANTS there to be more titles and for Xbox to succeed True. Most of us here are gamers without any bias and if the three big gaming companies are competing and pushing out innovations it's a win for all. Personally, I think it's going to be very interesting to see how Sony and Microsoft will fare, given their very different approach to next-gen. 2
Ganepark32 Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 *Opens thread* In all seriousness, I'm hoping for a date and price soon. The rumours of an early September event from Sony seem to have some weight so hopefully we'll find out by the end of the week or next week when that'll be. I'm still very much on board for the console. I know the games will be there through the coming years but losing Deathloop from launch is a bit of a downer from my point of view of buying as I'm not majorly fussed for Spiderman Miles Morales (the first was a decent game but the repetitiveness of the open world, even if it was optional, started to wear on me). Its why I'm weighing up whether I'll pick one up at launch or not. Realistically, its going to be a minimum of £500 but more likely more than that and that stretches my finances a bit (even if I sold my Switch Lite and library of games for that which would be my intention, tho I won't go into that here). So I don't know whether I'll just put the money back and invest early next year when Ratchet and Clank/Deathloop comes along. Some of the other games I'm interested in, Pathless and Kena, will have PS4 versions and with the likes of Cyberpunk there's still enough to keep me playing on current gen at the moment. We'll see. Once the price is out there and release date I'll make my decision. Pre-ordering online will be useless as they'll be gone in seconds and with everything going on, not keen on heading to the likes of GAME to put a pre-order down under a "First come, first serve" promise for launch even with putting a deposit down. Still very much looking forward to getting my hands on the console. Do find it odd that third parties seem to be a bit slow on the draw so far with regards to announcements as it does feel a little barren on that side coming towards launch. Sure, there's some big games coming but there's also a lot of cross gen games and some devs just not really getting out there and announcing/showing anything. The pandemic may have affected plans but I do wonder if some third party devs just aren't quite ready for next gen fully and the pandemic hit their plans hard. 1
Will Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 On the backwards compatibility, I’ve never really cared and don’t see why it causes people such intense pain. I’m buying a new console to play new games. The chart @Sheikah posted pretty comprehensively shows that it’s just not something people really use. It’s maybe a nice thing for the people that buy in the second wave of machines (not early adopters for new tech, have some older games they want to finish and maybe sell the old console to help pay for the new one) but that’s pretty limited. Given how hard Sony are drumming the importance of the generational leap during this transition I’m not at all surprised it’s only PS4 that is supported. The US pre-order thing is of course a marketing move, but it’s not some horrendous act of the devil. They want to make sure the most vocal and taste-setting people get a console, create a bit of a buzz, and do something special for the most supportive of their fans. I’d imagine this will be one of many ways to get hold of the console, but it sure will make it special to those that get the Sony treatment. 1
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, will' said: On the backwards compatibility, I’ve never really cared and don’t see why it causes people such intense pain. I’m buying a new console to play new games. The chart @Sheikah posted pretty comprehensively shows that it’s just not something people really use. It’s maybe a nice thing for the people that buy in the second wave of machines (not early adopters for new tech, have some older games they want to finish and maybe sell the old console to help pay for the new one) but that’s pretty limited. Given how hard Sony are drumming the importance of the generational leap during this transition I’m not at all surprised it’s only PS4 that is supported. It's definitely a "nice to have" feature but it surely must take up time and resources to develop. I can't help but feel that if Microsoft put as much effort into developing games as they did their BC that their new console would be all the better for it.
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Julius said: But at the same time, fans of PlayStation in this thread point to and call out issues they want to see improved, but the discussion always seems to become muddied and a bit on the negative side, even from those who don't own/seemingly have little interest in owning a PlayStation, as you mentioned drahkon. Yeah, good observation. I do feel in the case of today's posts that there wasn't anything to ever really complain about in the first place. It feels reasonable that the PS5 only has backwards compatibility with PS4 - in fact I'm pretty sure that's what everyone was expecting given the complex architecture of PS3. This is how backwards compatibility usually works as well (i.e. only the previous generation is supported) - and has been the case with consoles like the PS2, Xbox One, Wii, Wii U, DS, and 3DS. Edited September 1, 2020 by Sheikah
Dcubed Posted September 1, 2020 Author Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Yeah, good observation. I do feel in the case of today's posts that there wasn't anything to ever really complain about in the first place. It feels reasonable that the PS5 only has backwards compatibility with PS4 - in fact I'm pretty sure that's what everyone was expecting given the complex architecture of PS3. This is how backwards compatibility usually works as well (i.e. only the previous generation is supported) - and has been the case with consoles like the PS2, Xbox One, Wii, Wii U, DS, and 3DS. Considering that Sony already have a PS2 and PSP emulator up and running on PS4; PS2/PSP Classics on PS5 is not an outlandish expectation to have (Nor is PS1 for that matter). Edited September 1, 2020 by Dcubed
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Dcubed said: Considering that Sony already have a PS2 and PSP emulator up and running on PS4; PS2/PSP Classics on PS5 is not an outlandish expectation to have (Nor is PS1 for that matter). But then you're going much further back, and putting in effort testing individual games on these emulators when the overwhelming majority of people won't even play them. As I say, in the past the vast majority of backwards compatibility has always been just to let you play the previous generation, which is what they're doing here.
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