Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ronnie said: The PS3 didn't sell out at launch but that was a disaster on their part, but the PS4 did. Edit: yes the PS3 also sold out at launch Can I also just point out that you are proving my point for me, so thanks. As you've shown, their console can sell out (seemingly region-specific, but still). As such, the basis that this scheme is to combat low stock (and scalpers therefore cashing in) has substance.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Not really seeing any proof, just opinions. imo, this is pure FOMO from Sony, something I know @drahkon isn't a fan of. And that's putting aside the dubious tactic of getting people invested without even telling them the price. 3 minutes ago, Sheikah said: I don't doubt for a second that if it was Nintendo doing this scheme for a Switch Pro that you'd be backing them all the way. Not at all. I wasn't even going to bring this weird move up till I read a questionable comment about how Sony have been nailing marketing. If Xbox had done this would you be backing them? Unlikely. Same with backwards compatibility, I doubt you'd be excusing Xbox if the roles were reversed, so don't play the tedious console war card please because you're not one to talk.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Can I also just point out that you are proving my point for me, so thanks. You said Playstation consoles don't sell out, but the last couple have. Most consoles sell out at launch, even with the Wii U did, and probably the Vita too. ok maybe not 5 minutes ago, Sheikah said: As you've shown, their console can sell out (seemingly region-specific, but still). As such, the basis that this scheme is to combat low stock (and scalpers therefore cashing in) has substance The scheme is to offer up a reward for their biggest fans and get people itching to pre-order even more. Nothing to do with scalpers. It's just basic PR in the run-up to any launch. Edited September 1, 2020 by Ronnie
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Ronnie said: Not really seeing any proof, just opinions. I gave you 3 good reasons that suggest stock will probably be low - whereas your opinion is based on nothing other than you unfettered hatred of Sony. 1 minute ago, Ronnie said: imo, this is pure FOMO from Sony, something I know @drahkon isn't a fan of. And that's putting aside the dubious tactic of getting people invested without even telling them the price. That bolded bit is just not true though, is it? You make it sound as though people are handing over their credit card details up front and committing to a payment without knowing the price. By the time they will be offered the chance to pay they'll know the price. If they don't want to pay whatever Sony ask for it then they don't have to. 1 minute ago, Ronnie said: Not at all. I wasn't even going to bring this weird move up till I read a questionable comment about how Sony have been nailing marketing. If Xbox had done this would you be backing them? Unlikely. Same with backwards compatibility, I doubt you'd be excusing Xbox if the roles were reversed, so don't play the tedious console war card please because you're not one to talk. You only have to compare the views and social media metrics of Sony's announcements compared to Microsoft's to see who is handling marketing better. Sony have also nailed their games showings; in contrast, this has been a bit of a disaster for Microsoft, who embarrassingly have had to delay Halo Infinite next year and stand to launch their system with no exclusive software. 8 minutes ago, Ronnie said: You said Playstation consoles don't sell out, but the last couple have. Then you've just proven that in some regions this console will probably sell out, based on past experience. The basis of "low stock" as a means for launching this scheme therefore has substance. In fact, even if Sony's motives for launching this scheme are not honest, the fact remains that this scheme is ultimately "good" if it means fans have a better chance of getting a console if stock ends up being low.
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sheikah said: I gave you 3 good reasons that suggest stock will probably be low I didn't ask you for proof that stock would be low, I asked you as a rebuttal to you asking me for proof, whether you knew for a fact that Sony were doing this to combat scalpers and not just another PR milestone on their hype train. Obviously stock will be low, we've known that for ages. 4 minutes ago, Sheikah said: That bolded bit is just not true though, is it? You make it sound as though people are handing over their credit card details up front and committing to a payment without knowing the price. By the time they will be offered the chance to pay they'll know the price. If they don't want to pay whatever Sony ask for it then they don't have to. Sure, but the trouble is by that point they'll have been selected as a lucky winner to pre-order the console. Don't underestimate the lure of being drawn in with this supposedly rare chance to get a PS5 at launch before anyone else. 7 minutes ago, Sheikah said: You only have to compare the views and social media metrics of Sony's announcements compared to Microsoft's to see who is handling marketing better. Sony have also nailed their games showings; in contrast, this has been a bit of a disaster for Microsoft, who embarrassingly have had to delay Halo Infinite next year and stand to launch their system with no exclusive software. This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Any excuse to have a dig at Xbox though, eh? 7 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Then you've just proven that in some regions this console will probably sell out, based on past experience. Ok? 9 minutes ago, Sheikah said: The basis of "low stock" as a means for launching this scheme therefore has substance. Or, the opposite is true. It'll sell out regardless. They're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, "Be the first to pre-order, just sign up your details here and we'll see if you play enough Playstation games to be in with a chance", it's just marketing spin. But hey, two viewpoints. We've no ida which is correct.
Julius Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Man you two must love talking to each other, every time I come in here it's all I see just teasing though guys, you've both got good points 1 hour ago, drahkon said: And I really hope some people here will never buy a PS5 given the disdain they have for what's been announced/not announced. The incessant complaining and bringing up old news is annoying as hell, especially when most discussions start on a positive note. It's always Sony... Yeah, I've noticed this a lot too, I think it's a little unfortunate. I just hope it's because of us still being light on info about the console and games (a criticism which I think is fair to bring up at this point), and calms down once the console has launched and people are enjoying next gen. PlayStation have killed it this gen with the PS4 and have come out with several first party titles which could be argued to be amongst the best released this generation, but you wouldn't tell it from some of the discussions that go on here. I don't want to start arguments with anyone so I normally stay quiet over it, because I do think there are some genuinely good conversations to be had about what PlayStation can and should do to improve, but the same goes for Nintendo and Xbox. I know this is a Nintendo-focused site and forum, but at the end of the day the Switch is killing it just like the PS4 did, yet how they're discussed on here couldn't be any more different. There are strengths and weakness to all three console manufacturers and their first party titles, and how they handle things, all of which I feel should be discussed a bit more evenly than they are at the moment. The biggest problem I see discussed over in the Xbox thread might be its lack of titles, but it looks like everyone - even those without an Xbox - WANTS there to be more titles and for Xbox to succeed, if only for their fellow forum users who have an Xbox! I think that's great. But at the same time, fans of PlayStation in this thread point to and call out issues they want to see improved, but the discussion always seems to become muddied and a bit on the negative side, even from those who don't own/seemingly have little interest in owning a PlayStation, as you mentioned drahkon. I just want to play games and talk about them with other people who like to play games, couldn't care less about which console they're playing games on 1
Ronnie Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Julius said: Man you two must love talking to each other, every time I come in here it's all I see just teasing though guys, you've both got good points I think the conversation has run its course anyway, from me anyway. 1
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) Apologies up front for the shit show that this is becoming. 13 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I didn't ask you for proof that stock would be low, I asked you as a rebuttal to you asking me for proof, whether you knew for a fact that Sony were doing this to combat scalpers and not just another PR milestone on their hype train. Obviously stock will be low, we've known that for ages. Well I asked for proof purely because you stated it so resolutely. But really, I was getting you to rethink in light of the evidence that stock will likely be low (which you agree on). If stock is going to be low, this scheme will mean that fans have a chance of getting hold of one; and not scalpers. This for me validates the existence of such a scheme. Quote Sure, but the trouble is by that point they'll have been selected as a lucky winner to pre-order the console. Don't underestimate the lure of being drawn in with this supposedly rare chance to get a PS5 at launch before anyone else. If stock will be low then they'll sell all their consoles anyway. So why do they need a scheme to increase the chances of selling their consoles through FOMO tactics? See, your general argument does not seem logically sound. Quote This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Any excuse to have a dig at Xbox though, eh? Yes it does - you said that you objected to Sony's marketing being good. Their marketing has been good so far and can be measured against their competitor by a bunch of different metrics. Quote Or, the opposite is true. It'll sell out regardless. They're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, "Be the first to pre-order, just sign up your details here and we'll see if you play enough Playstation games to be in with a chance", it's just marketing spin. But hey, two viewpoints. We've no ida which is correct. If it will sell out anyway why bother with this scheme, if it existed purely to drum up marketing to lead to console sales? Edited September 1, 2020 by Sheikah
Happenstance Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Julius said: and calms down once the console has launched and people are enjoying next gen. It won't, it's the same old shit.
drahkon Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Julius said: I know this is a Nintendo-focused site and forum, but at the end of the day the Switch is killing it just like the PS4 did, yet how they're discussed on here couldn't be any more different. At least with Sony there's something to talk about. Nintendo doesn't release games anymore so no talk can be had 5 minutes ago, Julius said: fans of PlayStation in this thread point to and call out issues they want to see improved, but the discussion always seems to become muddied and a bit on the negative side, even from those who don't own/seemingly have little interest in owning a PlayStation, as you mentioned drahkon. Yeah, it's tiring But not something we should dive deeper into. Especially not in this thread. It's been derailed way too many times already. 6 minutes ago, Julius said: but it looks like everyone - even those without an Xbox - WANTS there to be more titles and for Xbox to succeed True. Most of us here are gamers without any bias and if the three big gaming companies are competing and pushing out innovations it's a win for all. Personally, I think it's going to be very interesting to see how Sony and Microsoft will fare, given their very different approach to next-gen. 2
Ganepark32 Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 *Opens thread* In all seriousness, I'm hoping for a date and price soon. The rumours of an early September event from Sony seem to have some weight so hopefully we'll find out by the end of the week or next week when that'll be. I'm still very much on board for the console. I know the games will be there through the coming years but losing Deathloop from launch is a bit of a downer from my point of view of buying as I'm not majorly fussed for Spiderman Miles Morales (the first was a decent game but the repetitiveness of the open world, even if it was optional, started to wear on me). Its why I'm weighing up whether I'll pick one up at launch or not. Realistically, its going to be a minimum of £500 but more likely more than that and that stretches my finances a bit (even if I sold my Switch Lite and library of games for that which would be my intention, tho I won't go into that here). So I don't know whether I'll just put the money back and invest early next year when Ratchet and Clank/Deathloop comes along. Some of the other games I'm interested in, Pathless and Kena, will have PS4 versions and with the likes of Cyberpunk there's still enough to keep me playing on current gen at the moment. We'll see. Once the price is out there and release date I'll make my decision. Pre-ordering online will be useless as they'll be gone in seconds and with everything going on, not keen on heading to the likes of GAME to put a pre-order down under a "First come, first serve" promise for launch even with putting a deposit down. Still very much looking forward to getting my hands on the console. Do find it odd that third parties seem to be a bit slow on the draw so far with regards to announcements as it does feel a little barren on that side coming towards launch. Sure, there's some big games coming but there's also a lot of cross gen games and some devs just not really getting out there and announcing/showing anything. The pandemic may have affected plans but I do wonder if some third party devs just aren't quite ready for next gen fully and the pandemic hit their plans hard. 1
Will Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 On the backwards compatibility, I’ve never really cared and don’t see why it causes people such intense pain. I’m buying a new console to play new games. The chart @Sheikah posted pretty comprehensively shows that it’s just not something people really use. It’s maybe a nice thing for the people that buy in the second wave of machines (not early adopters for new tech, have some older games they want to finish and maybe sell the old console to help pay for the new one) but that’s pretty limited. Given how hard Sony are drumming the importance of the generational leap during this transition I’m not at all surprised it’s only PS4 that is supported. The US pre-order thing is of course a marketing move, but it’s not some horrendous act of the devil. They want to make sure the most vocal and taste-setting people get a console, create a bit of a buzz, and do something special for the most supportive of their fans. I’d imagine this will be one of many ways to get hold of the console, but it sure will make it special to those that get the Sony treatment. 1
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, will' said: On the backwards compatibility, I’ve never really cared and don’t see why it causes people such intense pain. I’m buying a new console to play new games. The chart @Sheikah posted pretty comprehensively shows that it’s just not something people really use. It’s maybe a nice thing for the people that buy in the second wave of machines (not early adopters for new tech, have some older games they want to finish and maybe sell the old console to help pay for the new one) but that’s pretty limited. Given how hard Sony are drumming the importance of the generational leap during this transition I’m not at all surprised it’s only PS4 that is supported. It's definitely a "nice to have" feature but it surely must take up time and resources to develop. I can't help but feel that if Microsoft put as much effort into developing games as they did their BC that their new console would be all the better for it.
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Julius said: But at the same time, fans of PlayStation in this thread point to and call out issues they want to see improved, but the discussion always seems to become muddied and a bit on the negative side, even from those who don't own/seemingly have little interest in owning a PlayStation, as you mentioned drahkon. Yeah, good observation. I do feel in the case of today's posts that there wasn't anything to ever really complain about in the first place. It feels reasonable that the PS5 only has backwards compatibility with PS4 - in fact I'm pretty sure that's what everyone was expecting given the complex architecture of PS3. This is how backwards compatibility usually works as well (i.e. only the previous generation is supported) - and has been the case with consoles like the PS2, Xbox One, Wii, Wii U, DS, and 3DS. Edited September 1, 2020 by Sheikah
Dcubed Posted September 1, 2020 Author Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Yeah, good observation. I do feel in the case of today's posts that there wasn't anything to ever really complain about in the first place. It feels reasonable that the PS5 only has backwards compatibility with PS4 - in fact I'm pretty sure that's what everyone was expecting given the complex architecture of PS3. This is how backwards compatibility usually works as well (i.e. only the previous generation is supported) - and has been the case with consoles like the PS2, Xbox One, Wii, Wii U, DS, and 3DS. Considering that Sony already have a PS2 and PSP emulator up and running on PS4; PS2/PSP Classics on PS5 is not an outlandish expectation to have (Nor is PS1 for that matter). Edited September 1, 2020 by Dcubed
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Dcubed said: Considering that Sony already have a PS2 and PSP emulator up and running on PS4; PS2/PSP Classics on PS5 is not an outlandish expectation to have (Nor is PS1 for that matter). But then you're going much further back, and putting in effort testing individual games on these emulators when the overwhelming majority of people won't even play them. As I say, in the past the vast majority of backwards compatibility has always been just to let you play the previous generation, which is what they're doing here.
bob Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 In my opinion, it's only backwards compatibility if you can put your old disks/cartridges in, or transfer your old digital purchases over and play that way. If you have to buy it again, it's not backwards compatible, they've just re-released an old game. Switch isn't backwards compatible therefore, and neither is PS4 (unless you can play PS3 digital purchases? I don't know). Personally, i don't require it, as i rarely re-play older generation's games, so it wouldn't bother me if PS5 didn't have it.
Julius Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) New advert: Short and to the point, just as it should be. Would be so much better with a 'Pre-Order Now' at the end, though Edited September 1, 2020 by Julius 1
drahkon Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Julius said: Would be so much better with a 'Pre-Order Now' at the end, though URGH, shut up already 1
Sheikah Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, bob said: In my opinion, it's only backwards compatibility if you can put your old disks/cartridges in, or transfer your old digital purchases over and play that way. If you have to buy it again, it's not backwards compatible, they've just re-released an old game. Switch isn't backwards compatible therefore, and neither is PS4 (unless you can play PS3 digital purchases? I don't know). Personally, i don't require it, as i rarely re-play older generation's games, so it wouldn't bother me if PS5 didn't have it. Yeah, that's how I'd define it too. Otherwise the games are just ports and you're buying them again. One thing I always thought was that Switch surely could have had backwards compatibility with SNES/NES/gameboy/GBA digital games. We bought them on Wii/Wii U and now you can't access them at all. These are the sorts of low fidelity games that are really easy to emulate, so it's a bit of a shame to see them as part of an incentive to subscribe to access now on Switch. Edited September 1, 2020 by Sheikah
Fierce_LiNk Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 Going forward, I think it's wise for the PS4 games to be playable on a PS5 or at least for the digital games to carry forward, likewise for PS5 into PS6. Do I expect PS5 to play PSOne or PS2 discs? No, not really. It's not designed for that in mind and I'm pretty sure it's not as simple as that. You can't just put the disc in and expect it to work like magic. If it was that easy, it would already be possible. It isn't, so it doesn't work that way. Am I bothered? No, nope really. I think the future of gaming is for games to go digital and for this to be less of a problem. If the games are tied to an account and that can be transferred between consoles, or maybe even games streamed, then that may be an idea. We're not quite there yet, but it's going towards that way of content carrying forward. Let's not kid ourselves and forget that the reason we're buying new consoles is to play new games, new content. Having a new machine, imo, is there for newer experiences and to push things forward. Sometimes I feel that BC is like an anchor that is preventing things from going forward. We seem to be obsessing over this, yet forgetting that the whole idea is to keep pushing things forward. Newer games, newer experiences, newer ideas. I am buying a PS5 to play the next generation of games, not to relive the past. 3
Cookyman Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 When I got the PS4 I never once went back to my PS3. I suspect the same will true with the PS5 replacing my PS4. Backwards compatability in my opinion is not a major issue althought Microsoft would strongly disagree with my opinion!
drahkon Posted September 2, 2020 Posted September 2, 2020 10 hours ago, Fierce_LiNk said: Let's not kid ourselves and forget that the reason we're buying new consoles is to play new games, new content. Indeed. And that's why I'll go with the PS5 since Microsoft doesn't seem to be set on actually making their next-gen worthwhile. 10 hours ago, Fierce_LiNk said: not to relive the past. Not to mention, there's a lot of options to relive video game history. May they be legal or not (depending on whether you own the original)...but for the majority of systems/games there are easy ways to play them.
drahkon Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 Ok, Sony. Microsoft did it. Your move BUT WAIT, HERE'S SOME PSVR INFORMATION. 1
Julius Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, drahkon said: Ok, Sony. Microsoft did it. Your move BUT WAIT, HERE'S SOME PSVR INFORMATION. The true next gen experience! I don't think we'll be waiting too long, I'd have to imagine we know the price and release date by TGS with so much on show there, so maybe by the end of next week? I would expect PlayStation to just match the Series X with the PS5 at £499/€499/$499, and throw the Digital Edition out at £399/€399/$399. Their console margins might be slim, but having a lower priced Digital Edition I'm sure will offset that in the long run. I don't expect them to mess around by pricing the PS5 higher than the Series X, because while I'm sure it will sell, why play to that crowd who are going to be screaming "more expensive for weaker hardware?!" Wouldn't even be that surprised, based on their history, if they positioned PS5 at £449/€449/$449 just to undercut the Series X, but I'm not expecting it Can't be long now...right?
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