Fierce_LiNk Posted June 1, 2017 Posted June 1, 2017 I've just realised that we don't have a thread on this. Today, he's decided to pull out of the Paris Climate deal. [Tweet]870364200060809218[/Tweet]
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 1, 2017 Author Posted June 1, 2017 Did anyone catch his speech where he announced that he was pulling out of the Paris deal? It's excruciating. He sticks to his script and then just keeps throwing in these little one-liners which are just painful to listen to.
MoogleViper Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 @Nolan, may I ask, what's the general feeling and thoughts towards/around Trump over where you are?
sumo73 Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 Knew it wouldn't be long before Arnold Schwarzenegger said something about it-
Tales Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 Knew it wouldn't be long before Arnold Schwarzenegger said something about it- Saw that earlier today, excellent message.
Jimbob Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 If someone could just get rid of Trump, that'll be grand.
Nolan Posted June 2, 2017 Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) @Nolan, may I ask, what's the general feeling and thoughts towards/around Trump over where you are? Sadly, there are many supporters of him. Blue collar workers the exact people he's built a fortune on the backs of and will continue to step on think he is the greatest. Some of my union coworkers voted for him knowing full well he's likely to break the union and in their words they're thinking about having a job now not the future. Many were also terrified for their guns. I'm actually ashamed to admit my own mother is own if his supporters. Not one of the outward ones, but if she gets on the subject it's very me/us anti-social programs. Ironic given at one point she legitimately was on food stamps. There are a decent number of other people that are through his shit and realize just how toxic he and is policies are though. The problem is, he's in. Republicans have majority controls. It's kinda hard to do anything against him as of now. His cabinet choices are rather atrocious as well many of them being rather backwards thinking people. I tend not to follow most of this shit, but I do recall him removing the secretary of defense and replacing him with someone with no experience or reason to be in that position. The scarier part is Mike Pence, his VP. This guy is so hard right Christian that he believes homosexuality is a curable disease essentially. Now to be fair its based on a statement from his 2000 campaign and of course he denies supporting Conversion Therapy now but no one has seen anything in the way of good faith from him that he has changed his stances. On the other choices, basically no one liked Hilary. At all. Bernie was fighting an uphill battle and was the opposite of Trump. All about the social programs, so people like my mom who think "Well I worked hard for my money, why should it go to anyone else?!" Weren't going to cast in with him. People in the US are also fucking idiots. Socialism is still a tainted word that quickly gets smeared in people's minds as being communist or nazi. And they don't know the difference between socialism and communism. I'm going to paraphrase a little because I don't recall verbatim; a coworkers statement on socialism: "Throughout all of history if you look at anytime socialism was attempted the first things they did was control the media and then the weapons and took the power from the people and made them reliant on the government. And the government always fails. It's proven to fail." I didn't bother arguing with him. He's a self proclaimed redneck and thinks he can't be wrong. I was told to add that Canada does not agree with Trump. Edited June 2, 2017 by Nolan
sumo73 Posted June 3, 2017 Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) My hope is that the political left can actually stop attacking each other and come together. What is currently happening at Evergreen State College is quite bizarre. Also for the mainstream media to stop trivialising anything and everything that the President does as news. The news out that President Trump eats two scoops of ice cream when everyone else gets one is not fake news, it's trivial. What's more important the US not signing the Paris climate agreement or 'Covfefe' on Twitter? Edited June 4, 2017 by sumo73 ' missing 1
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 3, 2017 Author Posted June 3, 2017 My hope is that the political left can actually stop attacking each other and come together. What is currently happening at Evergreen State College is quite bizarre. Also for the mainstream media to stop trivialising anything and everything that the President does as news. The news out that President Trump eats two scoops of ice cream when everyone else gets one is not fake news, its trivial. What's more important the US not signing the Paris climate agreement or 'Covfefe' on Twitter? I guess the media are following it up because it's unheard of for a President to conduct themselves in such a way. His behaviour is highly unusual and it's strange that he's connecting with his "audience" in such a bizarre way with his strange tweets. It's even more concerning that he makes remarks about his opposition and other world leaders in such a way. The media focus on it because it is interesting due to it being unusual. At the same time, I think the focus that they've given to him not supporting the Paris Climate deal, and the fallout, has been good. There has been a lot of attention on it and also how other countries (and even states in the USA) have reacted to it.
killthenet Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 To paraphrase Bill Hicks, any one dumb enough to want to be in the military should be allowed in. 2
Fierce_LiNk Posted July 27, 2017 Author Posted July 27, 2017 Nothing Trump does anymore shocks me. However, there wasn't an awful lot of build-up to this, so the timing of it is quite odd. At this stage, Trump just seems to be going through a checklist of Obama-era policies and is reversing them one-by-one. This is quite a useful link that details the progress made under Obama and how it's being reversed under Trump. Clearly the costs involved are way under 1% of the total military budget, so it's not a reasonable argument to blame it on costs. I just wonder what happens next after this.
Rummy Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 What worries me be most about all of this is how seemingly ok it is to be a massive prick in office in the West without too much accountability? Trump and May mirror each other muchly (heh) at the moment. I think whilst it doesn't seem so obvious it is a turning point of seeing whether the right can still dominate or not. Though on that note Obamacare is apparently continuing as the vote to repeal has failed. As our country slowly bleeds, underfunds and kills our NHS the US apparently seem to be gripping their system by the horns and holding on to the closest semblance of nationalised healthcare they have for the greater good of society. 1
killthenet Posted July 27, 2017 Posted July 27, 2017 The thing is Obamacare is a trash policy because the US is beholden to the health insurance system, which is weighted in favour of corporations instead of individuals. Yes its good that the policy means all people can now get health coverage, but the market is still dictated by insurance companies more interested in making money than the health of their customers. Before the election Trump's views on healthcare actually sounded progressive but it flies in the face of what he stands for to most Americans so there is no way that they could ever implement a system like the NHS, it's unfortunately viewed as far too socialist a policy for a country still so obsessed with the negative sides of communism. 2
Agent Gibbs Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 Trump scares me more and more each day, how he implemented a plicy that blatantly discriminates against trans people, that has gone unchecked is disgusting and does not paint America (the land of the free) in a good light! I'd suspect he has the idea to reinstate don't ask don't tell as well His posts about not worshiping the government worship god (the christian one) again shows America is no longer a free society, its becoming a secular one All in all Democracy seems to be dead for American's, Trump is running it like a Kingdom! do as you are told or get sacked, he makes policy on a whim, he makes proclamations on a whip, he threatens people/states with the financial chopping block if they opposing him and he is truely obsessed with how much the people love him! Over night America lost the war of Independence and installed a King
Fierce_LiNk Posted July 28, 2017 Author Posted July 28, 2017 On 27/07/2017 at 3:32 PM, killthenet said: The thing is Obamacare is a trash policy because the US is beholden to the health insurance system, which is weighted in favour of corporations instead of individuals. Yes its good that the policy means all people can now get health coverage, but the market is still dictated by insurance companies more interested in making money than the health of their customers. Before the election Trump's views on healthcare actually sounded progressive but it flies in the face of what he stands for to most Americans so there is no way that they could ever implement a system like the NHS, it's unfortunately viewed as far too socialist a policy for a country still so obsessed with the negative sides of communism. Let's get real for a moment, there was no way that Obama could have ever changed the way health insurance works in the way that you wanted or expected it to. You're not being realistic. Obamacare is as good as it gets with the way that things work currently. For things to not work this way, America would have to change it's entire medical industry overnight and dozens of corporations would go bust. There are too many people who wanted Obamacare to fail in the first place, could you imagine how many more there would have been if he had tried to change the market by moving it out of favour of corporations? It's deeply rooted into their culture and it will takes years, if not a decade, (maybe more) to weed out. Trump said a lot of things.
killthenet Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 39 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said: Let's get real for a moment, there was no way that Obama could have ever changed the way health insurance works in the way that you wanted or expected it to. You're not being realistic. Obamacare is as good as it gets with the way that things work currently. For things to not work this way, America would have to change it's entire medical industry overnight and dozens of corporations would go bust. There are too many people who wanted Obamacare to fail in the first place, could you imagine how many more there would have been if he had tried to change the market by moving it out of favour of corporations? It's deeply rooted into their culture and it will takes years, if not a decade, (maybe more) to weed out. Trump said a lot of things. Obamacare isn't the NHS but its still preferable to the system that was in place before. It's probably one of the best things that can be done with the current insurance based system. It would obviously take a huge overhaul, tearing down the current system and be incredibly time consuming and expensive to move to a truly patient based healthcare system, which would face so much opposition from the public and the senate that it would have taken years to even put the legislation through, by which time Obama's terms would have been up. So Obamacare is a decent policy for the US, but it's still a dreadful system compared to what we have in the UK. And yeah, Trump said a lot of things during the campaign that obviously don't hold true now, but I was just saying it was one part of his campaign dialogue that would actually present an improvement to the current situation. Even so, it would be the single positive change among the numerous backward steps his administration has taken.
Fierce_LiNk Posted July 28, 2017 Author Posted July 28, 2017 1 minute ago, killthenet said: Obamacare isn't the NHS but its still preferable to the system that was in place before. It's probably one of the best things that can be done with the current insurance based system. It would obviously take a huge overhaul, tearing down the current system and be incredibly time consuming and expensive to move to a truly patient based healthcare system, which would face so much opposition from the public and the senate that it would have taken years to even put the legislation through, by which time Obama's terms would have been up. So Obamacare is a decent policy for the US, but it's still a dreadful system compared to what we have in the UK. And yeah, Trump said a lot of things during the campaign that obviously don't hold true now, but I was just saying it was one part of his campaign dialogue that would actually present an improvement to the current situation. Even so, it would be the single positive change among the numerous backward steps his administration has taken. If anything, we're more likely to implement a pseudo-American system of healthcare than America is likely to have an NHS style system. The NHS is being starved of funds and I'm bracing myself for the day where we start seeing large chunks of it sold off to corporations and investors.
killthenet Posted July 28, 2017 Posted July 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Fierce_LiNk said: If anything, we're more likely to implement a pseudo-American system of healthcare than America is likely to have an NHS style system. The NHS is being starved of funds and I'm bracing myself for the day where we start seeing large chunks of it sold off to corporations and investors. That's why I'm pleased that the Tories only have a minority government for the next parliament, so they can't continue to push through those kinds of legislation as easily. The comparative success of Corbyn in the election makes me far more optimistic for the future of this country than I was a year ago, and I'm clinging on to that optimism as hard as I can while cowering in fear of nuclear war at the other end of things.
Jonnas Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 On 27/07/2017 at 4:32 PM, killthenet said: The thing is Obamacare is a trash policy because the US is beholden to the health insurance system, which is weighted in favour of corporations instead of individuals. Yes its good that the policy means all people can now get health coverage, but the market is still dictated by insurance companies more interested in making money than the health of their customers. Before the election Trump's views on healthcare actually sounded progressive but it flies in the face of what he stands for to most Americans so there is no way that they could ever implement a system like the NHS, it's unfortunately viewed as far too socialist a policy for a country still so obsessed with the negative sides of communism. I just wanted to say "We're gonna have health coverage for everybody!" (which is what Trump said during the campaign, IIRC) is not a progressive stance to take as much as it is an easy claim to make. Obamacare detractors may argue against a plan's wastefulness or lack of effectiveness, but they can't argue against the principle of giving health to voters (not successfully, anyway). If his claim had been "Let's take money away from infrastructure maintenance to pay for healthcare", people from both sides of the political spectrum would disagree with the notion of doing that, since that might not be the best way to go about it. But simply "Let's do healthcare!" is clean and easy. It's up there with claims such as "Jobs for everybody!" or "I'll lower taxes!" in easy promises to make. In fact, Bernie's promises about free college education are similar in that regard, in that he never really said how he planned to do that (which is why I never liked the guy either, tbh) (Mind you, I'm only talking about rhetoric. Whether those promises are lies or not is another matter) On 28/07/2017 at 10:47 AM, Agent Gibbs said: Trump scares me more and more each day, how he implemented a plicy that blatantly discriminates against trans people, that has gone unchecked is disgusting and does not paint America (the land of the free) in a good light! I'd suspect he has the idea to reinstate don't ask don't tell as well His posts about not worshiping the government worship god (the christian one) again shows America is no longer a free society, its becoming a secular one All in all Democracy seems to be dead for American's, Trump is running it like a Kingdom! do as you are told or get sacked, he makes policy on a whim, he makes proclamations on a whip, he threatens people/states with the financial chopping block if they opposing him and he is truely obsessed with how much the people love him! Over night America lost the war of Independence and installed a King Trump's actions have not gone unchecked. His travel ban was quickly repealed, his pushes for Obamacare repeal have been unsuccessful, and his cabinet is unstable as hell. Sure, he's done some damage while in office (mostly in international relations), but the US governments' checks and balances have been effective in reigning in his actions. Also, I'm not sure what you tried to say there, but "secular" means "separate from religion". If the US were to become more secular, I'd certainly call it a good thing 1
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