Raining_again Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 The results do not give licence for people to be racist from a minority of those who may have voted Leave nor does it give licence for a minority from those on the Remain side who are venting their anger and being ageist against the old. Regardless of however right you think you are do not move to hate. I agree with you but it is what is happening, the very few racists out there think that all the leavers think the way they do, and its given them what they feel is an opening to behave that way. Never said it was right. I have no hate against anyone, & I didn't bring age into it?
sumo73 Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) I have no hate against anyone, & I didn't bring age into it? I wasn't directing this against you (sorry), I was just making a wider point from what I see online and in the media in general right now that these results do not give people regardless of how they voted to hate others. Edited June 27, 2016 by sumo73
nekunando Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 I worry for my european friends who think this means something against them.. I work in Spar, as you know, but since the result of the referendum I've had a strange feeling when serving customers who aren't originally from this country. I see these people several times a week and treat them just as I would anyone else (Why wouldn't I? ) but all of a sudden I wonder if they're feeling unwanted or if they're wondering what really motivated people who they see during their daily lives to vote leave.
sumo73 Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I've been following the turmoil of the Labour campaign with @Blade and I can't believe how bad it seems to be going. It's an absolute fucking shambles. My family has a history (obviously, growing up in Wales) of being Labour voters. My Dad was a Labour voter til the day he died, my Mum, brothers, friend is in the Labour party, etc. I feel completely let down by how little effort they seemed to be putting into this campaign to keep us in the EU and they've done a poor job of getting the people from Wales on side. I do think some of the blame falls at Corbyn's door, but it's been a very poor performance from the party (and Remain, in general) throughout this campaign. I can't help but feel we're stuck (or on the way to that) on an island with the Scots wanting to leave and the Conservatives in full power and control. Historically the Labour party was for a time anti EEC/EU but the party got drunk off of the pro EU story from Tony Blair. Corbyn was EU sceptic but the rest of the party wasn't really. The final result was a compromise during the EU Campaign. The Labour party in Wales has had a long and proud history but with the Labour party in a mess right now it gives parties like Plaid Cymru opportunities to exploit the situation. If the vote in Wales had been closer I'm sure Leanne Wood, would be saying similar things as Nicola Sturgeon is saying right now, first leader or not.
Blade Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Yeah it is definitely due to the result in Wales why Plaid aren't spouting their usual stuff and supporting Sturgeon. The state of the Labour Party saddens me. I would have preferred there not to be calls for Corbyn's resignation. The party should have taken this opportunity to be an effective opposition and have a plan of what should happen next. Now the PLP has called for his head I think it now should roll. Corbyn being in post just undermines the Labour Party and it cannot be effective opposition and definitely not a government in waiting whilst these clear divisions exist. What I have found shocking and I have touched on this before is the clear evidence that the UK Government does not have a plan of what to do next. It is almost like they did not consider that a Leave vote would happen. Osbourne confirmed this morning that "we need a plan" No shit!
Pestneb Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I read somewhere that whitehall were told not to draw up contingency plans. If you call a referendum you should draw up plans for what to do in the change scenario.. seems pretty simple to me. If Cameron wanted this change as little as he evidently did.. why call a referendum in the first place? This whole situation seems utterly crazy! So instead of 3 months of well planned out reaction, we have spur of the moment hope everything pans out ok reaction. The only way the "no planning" instruction to whitehall things makes sense to me, would be if the plan had always been to make sure a leave referendum resulted in disaster so that the successor (quite possibly Boris) would be set up for a spectacular fail?
Daft Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 The Labour party should split, leave it to Corbyn, then the poisonous nu-Blairites can go form their own party.
Ashley Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Yeah it is definitely due to the result in Wales why Plaid aren't spouting their usual stuff and supporting Sturgeon. The state of the Labour Party saddens me. I would have preferred there not to be calls for Corbyn's resignation. The party should have taken this opportunity to be an effective opposition and have a plan of what should happen next. Now the PLP has called for his head I think it now should roll. Corbyn being in post just undermines the Labour Party and it cannot be effective opposition and definitely not a government in waiting whilst these clear divisions exist. What I have found shocking and I have touched on this before is the clear evidence that the UK Government does not have a plan of what to do next. It is almost like they did not consider that a Leave vote would happen. Osbourne confirmed this morning that "we need a plan" No shit! I read somewhere that whitehall were told not to draw up contingency plans. If you call a referendum you should draw up plans for what to do in the change scenario.. seems pretty simple to me. If Cameron wanted this change as little as he evidently did.. why call a referendum in the first place? This whole situation seems utterly crazy! So instead of 3 months of well planned out reaction, we have spur of the moment hope everything pans out ok reaction. The only way the "no planning" instruction to whitehall things makes sense to me, would be if the plan had always been to make sure a leave referendum resulted in disaster so that the successor (quite possibly Boris) would be set up for a spectacular fail? The whole thing has been a mess. During the campaigning Leave were saying "we'd spend money on this and that instead" and Remain told them they're not in charge of the Treasury and they can't platform on something they won't control but they continued to do so and evidently nothing was planned. Just two stubborn camps having a pissing contest rather than showing leadership.
bob Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I thought everyone knew the Leave camp didn't have a plan. They pretty much said as much before the vote, but it got lost among all the shit flinging.
Ashley Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I thought everyone knew the Leave camp didn't have a plan. They pretty much said as much before the vote, but it got lost among all the shit flinging. I think the argument is both sides should have had one and neither side did.
Nicktendo Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 The Labour party should split, leave it to Corbyn, then the poisonous nu-Blairites can go form their own party. Or just get over with it and finally join the Tories.
Ashley Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I've not watched Farage's speech from today because I feel it may tip my rage over the edge but seen some comments and he said that most of the people there have never really had a real job. Yes he used to be a trader, but for the last 17 years he's been a MEP in which he is paid by the EU to attend meetings and votes most of which he doesn't attend and then claims the EU is wasting money. Which is why Guy Verhofstadt saying this was so satisfying: [tweet]747730179779338240[/tweet] But its the infuriating thing. We (as a nation) seem to have elected European MEPs to go moan to the EU about the EU. And not in a productive "hey this isn't good, we should be trying to do this" kind of way but in a "NO I DON'T LIKE YOU I HATE YOU SHUT UP" kind of way and that is (from what I hear) what his speech was like today. It's like having a debate to discuss road safety and sending only truck drivers that hate cyclists.
Rummy Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I've not watched Farage's speech from today because I feel it may tip my rage over the edge but seen some comments and he said that most of the people there have never really had a real job. Yes he used to be a trader, but for the last 17 years he's been a MEP in which he is paid by the EU to attend meetings and votes most of which he doesn't attend and then claims the EU is wasting money. Which is why Guy Verhofstadt saying this was so satisfying: [tweet]747730179779338240[/tweet] But its the infuriating thing. We (as a nation) seem to have elected European MEPs to go moan to the EU about the EU. And not in a productive "hey this isn't good, we should be trying to do this" kind of way but in a "NO I DON'T LIKE YOU I HATE YOU SHUT UP" kind of way and that is (from what I hear) what his speech was like today. It's like having a debate to discuss road safety and sending only truck drivers that hate cyclists. No way has he been MEP for the last 17 years?! He wasn't even on the radar 17 years ago! I recall when he got the election to position, and I was definitely much older than I was 17 years ago....wasn't I?? Had seen one of the comedy folks on The Last Leg say the same on Friday though. One thing annoying me a bit atm - apparently I can't post anything political on facebook without it automatically being just about a Remain/Leave thing -.- I am amazed at how solidly this has shifted some people's pre-concepted mindsets to read automatically assume the nature of something and immediately go on an offensive/defensive. I've specifically tried to avoid being a 'bad Remainer' since Friday but for some reason that also means I'm maybe apparently supposed to shut up about anything remotely political!
Ashley Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 No way has he been MEP for the last 17 years?! He wasn't even on the radar 17 years ago! I recall when he got the election to position, and I was definitely much older than I was 17 years ago....wasn't I?? Had seen one of the comedy folks on The Last Leg say the same on Friday though. One thing annoying me a bit atm - apparently I can't post anything political on facebook without it automatically being just about a Remain/Leave thing -.- I am amazed at how solidly this has shifted some people's pre-concepted mindsets to read automatically assume the nature of something and immediately go on an offensive/defensive. I've specifically tried to avoid being a 'bad Remainer' since Friday but for some reason that also means I'm maybe apparently supposed to shut up about anything remotely political! You're old and you need to shut up. Accept these truths in life Rummy.
Kav Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I still post on Facebook about the Referendum aftermath and will keep doing so as long as I feel things need be brought to people's attention... and it's always good to discuss matters. If they don't want to see it they can always unfollow me.
Blade Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Farage is a disgrace to this country. Everyone knows anyway but after his performance in the European Parliament this morning it is beyond doubt.
sumo73 Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I still post on Facebook about the Referendum aftermath and will keep doing so as long as I feel things need be brought to people's attention... and it's always good to discuss matters.If they don't want to see it they can always unfollow me. I made a very conscious decision at the end of last year not to post anything about politics on my facebook page for this year and maybe beyond. It was something that I do not regret especially now. If you've read anything that I've posted in the last few days then you know that I am interested in politics but from what I've read on facebook it makes me sad from what I've read from others but I've enjoyed the discussion here, it makes me a bit more optimistic about the future.
gaggle64 Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Watched Farage's speech live, pretty much confirmed everything I suspected - No mention of what might be best for Britain or readying for the upcoming negotiations, almost entirely dedicated to insults and stroking his own ego. The speech by the Scottish MEP was like a soothing balm afterward, even while watching as an Englishman in England.
Serebii Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Sigh, I really do want my country back. This has been a catastrophe from the get-go. It has caused racists to feel validated and output that validation. We are a nation that has been built on the migration of others. Vikings, Romans, Normans, Celts etc. all were fundamental to this country and yet how many of them originated here. Not a damned one of them. The idea of Britain for the British is laughable at best. What is British? Parliament needs to nip this in the bud. Other EU countries have had referendums pertaining to the EU where the slim majority said No but it was overturned. This NEEDS to be the outcome. The economy is crashing. The promises will be unfulfilled due to being unfeasible. Taxes will rise. The pound will continue to drop. I am a sad panda
Rummy Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I still post on Facebook about the Referendum aftermath and will keep doing so as long as I feel things need be brought to people's attention... and it's always good to discuss matters.If they don't want to see it they can always unfollow me. Yeah I've always shared stuff that could be called political - but I guess it's because I feel some people don't consider or think about it all enough, and tbh I think this referendum has shown that in some ways. I'm slightly trying to avoid taking any sides now the decisions in or fighting that corner and just going forwards generally - absolutely like you I think the best thing is to discuss things. One of my mates on facebook was vehemently on the opposite side of the vote to me, but it hasn't tinged us at all(if anything, made us closer!) - I am struggling to actually understand how or why people are having to get so caught up and personal about things, like how you can hate someone so vehemently simply for having a different view to you! If we just all got along and agreed then life would be boring! I just wish some people would conduct themselves with decorum - I've seen absolutely despicable and vile behaviour post decision from both sides, and that's one of the things that upsets and maybe even angers me the most. I abhor all this name calling and absolute and utter self-belief that they're not just an opinion, but that they're right! I know I can and have been very passionate on the whole topic, but I've never taken an approach of dismissing someone for a different opinion and I'm amazed seeing the absolute spectrum of people doing so!
bob Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I made the mistake of reading through more Brexit racism accounts on Facebook and now I'm all depressed at work.
Daft Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Farage is a disgrace to this country. Everyone knows anyway but after his performance in the European Parliament this morning it is beyond doubt. this morning this morning
Ashley Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Speaking of David Tennant (kind of...) And speaking of random celebrities, Keanu Reeves has turned up to fix things: [tweet]747787175601770496[/tweet] And speaking of deplorable cuntbags, Jeremy Hunt has said we should have a second referendum once we know the terms of exit (would have been nice to have that before the first but hey ho) which sounds nice in its idealism, but EU member states are already saying they won't have informal talks so the best we can offer is "this is how it is now, and this is what we think we can get but can't guarantee until after we trigger article 50". He's also considering running for PM because he wants to ruin more than just the NHS.
Serebii Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Speaking of David Tennant (kind of...) And speaking of random celebrities, Keanu Reeves has turned up to fix things: [tweet]747787175601770496[/tweet] And speaking of deplorable cuntbags, Jeremy Hunt has said we should have a second referendum once we know the terms of exit (would have been nice to have that before the first but hey ho) which sounds nice in its idealism, but EU member states are already saying they won't have informal talks so the best we can offer is "this is how it is now, and this is what we think we can get but can't guarantee until after we trigger article 50". He's also considering running for PM because he wants to ruin more than just the NHS. It's not like he can ruin it anymore than Brexit already has
bob Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Hang on, are you calling Keanu Reeves a deplorable cuntbag?
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