Death Stranding (PS4 Kojima)

[LazyBoy]

Who's publishing this game? The amount of money that must have been spent on this makes it a significant risk, and I don't think you can rule out the possibility of a commercial failure here. I know Kojima had his fans, and MGS sold well, but every new IP has to win over an audience and this looks very marmite.

[Dcubed]

1 minute ago, LazyBoy said:

Who's publishing this game? The amount of money that must have been spent on this makes it a significant risk, and I don't think you can rule out the possibility of a commercial failure here. I know Kojima had his fans, and MGS sold well, but every new IP has to win over an audience and this looks very marmite.

Sony is publishing it on PS4.  505 Games is publishing it on PC.

 

I'd be shocked if it performs poorly.  The amount of marketing this game has had is bonkers and it is literally Sony's only big game of the Xmas season.  It's the last holiday that PS4 will have to itself and I expect this game to have an advertising campaign to match that sentiment.  I really can't see it being a failure.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Dcubed

[killthenet]

I don't think it'll be a failure either, there is enough curiosity about the games narrative and themes for it to sell even if the critical consensus is mostly negative.

I'm interested to see what the reviews say but it would take a lot to convince me not to play it. Shenmue is out barely a week after this launches so I won't be picking it up at launch but I hope to get round to it by the start of December.

[LazyBoy]

Just for the record I hope Im wrong.

[Hero-of-Time]

Reviews are out and as expected it's a VERY divisive game. Some love it and others hate it. I'll see where I land on it when it arrives next week.

 

 

Danny O'Dwyer says that the game is VERY unique and VERY different.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Hero-of-Time

[drahkon]

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Danny O'Dwyer says that the game is VERY unique and VERY different.

Thank god, it is.

People tend to hate on Kojima (and I get some of the reasons) but there is no denying that he keeps trying to push boundaries. He wants to take video games to the next (or "another") level. And from what I've read, Death Stranding is another successful attempt.

[Dcubed]

Wow! Wasn't expecting the reviews to be so mixed! (Guess Sony's check must've bounced )

 

Very unusual reviews for a game like this.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

1 minute ago, drahkon said:

Thank god, it is.

People tend to hate on Kojima (and I get some of the reasons) but there is no denying that he keeps trying to push boundaries. He wants to take video games to the next (or "another") level. And from what I've read, Death Stranding is another successful attempt.

I'm still not sure if I'm going to enjoy it but I'm willing to give it a go. It's seems like the game is a slow burner which I'm not usually a fan of. The amount of cutscenes in the game is actually something that won't bother me. MGS4 got a lot of flak for the same issue but I loved it. 

3 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Very unusual reviews for a game like this.

I think the scores are in keeping with the game. It's an unusual game that was never going to be to everyone's tastes. It seems like it was a hard to review for a few outlets.

[drahkon]

2 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

 

 

 

That has to be one of the best reviews I've ever seen. Is he always this good at reviews?

15 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I'm still not sure if I'm going to enjoy it but I'm willing to give it a go.

This is pretty much the attiutde I wish everyone had with this game. Death Stranding seems to beunique and with people complaining about how the gaming industry is becoming more of the same people should definitely try it out.

 

17 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It's seems like the game is a slow burner which I'm not usually a fan of.

Oh, really? Never would've guessed  

I'm looking forward to your impression.

[Sheikah]

Wow! Wasn't expecting the reviews to be so mixed! (Guess Sony's check must've bounced )
 
Very unusual reviews for a game like this.

Reviews are exactly what I expected for an unusual game like this.

[Ronnie]

The IGN review is excellent. And was called out as the best video review they've ever done by their editor. But they're going to get a lot of heat for the score. I applaud them for looking beyond the hype and style over substance that this game seems to reek of.

No wonder they weren't telling people what the game is, if a series of fetch quests is what the game amounts to.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Ronnie

[Jimbob]

I'm curious about this, the reviews are what i was expecting.  Probably get this as something to play over the holidays or early next year before Last of Us Part II.  Kojima certainly is one to push the boundaries with each game he creates.

[Ganepark32]

The reviews seem to be pretty much in the ball park that I'd have expected. This is Kojima with the shackles off, free to create the vision he wanted with no one to tell him he couldn't do otherwise.

I liked Danny O'Dwyer's review (great to see him doing more. Hopefully with them in new studio space for Noclip we'll see) and how he likened it to being less aout the end goal or the journey; that it's about the discovery along the way. And sure, there seems to at least be consensus that there are boring points or stretches as you go along so it comes down to whether you want to weather that storm or not for the discoveries or moments interspersed in between.

I imagine it's been a difficult game to review for some because of this. I also imagine that there's a lot of people who've put faith in the Kojima brand to produce something ground-breaking. Given his name carries a lot of cachet, it's no surprise that some may be disappointed in it or not like it as he's made no bone about pumping for weird or wonderful ideas throughout his career and these won't land with many. The art house comparison is very apt and like many indie games that try to do something different or weird, it won't always pay off critically but I imagine there'll be a strong contingent of people that'll gravitate to it heavily and love it.

For me, I've been intrigued along the way but the Kojima name doesn't hold a lot of weight for me. I've never been massively fussed for Metal Gear Solid and I'm all too aware that he perhaps got too much attention for the games when there was a massive tram behind him helping to facilitate his ideas or bringing their own to the table. But the idea of something strange and different does definitely tickle my fancy, especially as we get towards the end of the year. I might not pick it up straight away (it would have to be a toss up between this and Pokemon as money is tight and even Pokemon hasn't managed to wow me as I don't care for gigamaxing or whatever it's called) but it's something I may well try out over Christmas.

[Hero-of-Time]

2 hours ago, drahkon said:

That has to be one of the best reviews I've ever seen. Is he always this good at reviews?

I love his NoClip stuff that he makes but this is the first time i've sat down and watched a review by him. It was very well done.

2 hours ago, drahkon said:

I'm looking forward to your impression.

I'm really looking forward to it. It's not an excitement but more that i'm very intrigued by it. As you said, it looks to be doing something other than the norm and I think this is why some reviewers haven't been able to get along with the game. 

[drahkon]

The Decima engine is a thing of beauty.

[Ronnie]

Apparently EDGE got so bored playing it they refused to finish it.   Sony stipulated you had to finish the game to publish a review so they won’t be publishing one. They’ll do a preview without a final score.

I’m a little surprised for someone who didn’t like BOTW you’re so keen on this @drahkon. I’m getting some Zelda vibes from the traversal-heavy empty-ish openworld (just with seemingly lots of pointless busywork, annoying controls and none of the fun of the shrines and dungeons). I guess there’s obviously much more emphasis on a storyline which is one big difference.

For all the praise Kojima is getting for trying something different it sounds to me like gameplay was an afterthought here. Seems more like a vanity project than a game to me.  at least based on what I’ve read/watched. 

[killthenet]

Although it's pretty funny that Edge stopped playing it, it also seems pretty unprofessional of them not to finish it. Can't imagine Sony being too happy with that outcome. 

As others have said I had expected a pretty mixed reaction. I'm disappointed that it seems a bit light on gameplay but I will definitely still be playing it once I've played Shenmue 3.

[Hero-of-Time]

@Ronnie I wouldn't say the busy work is pointless if it's driving a narrative forward, which seems to be the case here. BOTW and this are both open world games but their approach seems to be very different.

Also, did you happen to play MGSV? That was a pretty barren open world but the moment to moment set pieces and the ways you could tackle missions were fantastic. Kojima has built a barren world before and still managed to made it fun. Here's hoping that is the case here.

[Ronnie]

37 minutes ago, killthenet said:

Although it's pretty funny that Edge stopped playing it, it also seems pretty unprofessional of them not to finish it

I thought so too until they clarified they'd still be doing a write-up on it, just without a score at the end. Sony probably don't mind, it means one less 3 or 4/10 dragging their Metacritic down.

3 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I wouldn't say the busy work is pointless if it's driving a narrative forward

I meant more things like pressing LT and RT to keep your balance and your cargo on your back without dropping everything and having to pick it up, or rocking the baby to keep him quiet, picking up all your scattered gear after a big battle, the long traversal and 4 cutscenes that play every time you want to fast travel etc...

5 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Also, did you happen to play MGSV? That was a pretty barren open world but the moment to moment set pieces and the ways you could tackle missions were fantastic. Kojima has built a barren world before and still managed to made it fun. Here's hoping that is the case here.

I played a little when it was on PS+ but switched it off after an hour never to return. I don't really get the hype around him but I'm sure he has his fans for a reason.

[Hero-of-Time]

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I meant more things like pressing LT and RT to keep your balance and your cargo on your back without dropping everything and having to pick it up, or rocking the baby to keep him quiet, picking up all your scattered gear after a big battle, the long traversal and 4 cutscenes that play every time you want to fast travel etc...

The balance thing I'm quite intrigued by. It's seems to be about you making a decision as to whether to risk carrying a lot and going slow or making multiple trips but without the added hassle of balancing. I think this is why we are seeing such a variety of play times, with some taking up to 60 hours and others finishing it in around 30. It depends on how much cargo and what kind of route you are taking.

As for the baby thing, it would be a little weird if you weren't interacting with it at all. We aren't talking Heavy Rain nappy changing here. It actually seems to be a vital part of the games narrative.

[drahkon]

I've always adored Shinkawas artwork. 

[Hero-of-Time]

9 minutes ago, drahkon said:

I've always adored Shinkawas artwork. 

Indeed. I always wanted a framed piece of some of the various MGS work that was done over the years. Even the Left Alive art was fantastic, despite the game apparently being a train wreck.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Sorry, I think I've missed something here. Why did Sony have to ask for the game to be finished by the reviewer before the reviewer writes the review? Is it commonplace for reviewers to...write reviews without finishing games? 

If you're going to write a review on a game, it should be an absolute given that you finish the game before doing so. (I'm strictly talking about games that contain a story element, not multiplayer only games as that's a whole different situation). 

As for this game, I had very little interest in it before the reviews came out and I'm not brave enough to whack £40 down on a game that I'm quite sure is going to do it for me. It was very divisive when it was revealed, then after each trailer, and then now. It looks like an unusual concept and there are going to be bits that put people off or the opposite. For me, it all hinges on whether the story is gripping and if the journey along the way is worthwhile, which is subjective and I may have to decide for myself if/when I ever get around to playing it.

 

[Hero-of-Time]

22 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

Sorry, I think I've missed something here. Why did Sony have to ask for the game to be finished by the reviewer before the reviewer writes the review? Is it commonplace for reviewers to...write reviews without finishing games? 

If you're going to write a review on a game, it should be an absolute given that you finish the game before doing so. (I'm strictly talking about games that contain a story element, not multiplayer only games as that's a whole different situation).

Sadly that does seem to be the the case these days. Publications want to have something as soon as the embargo is over for maximum clicks and you can tell by reading/watching that a lot of them haven't finished the game. YouTubers are the worst for it. It's a disgusting practice and one that I hate. 

Colin (Sacred Symbols) spoke about this a while back and it's something he seen while at IGN. It's one of the reasons why he loves the trophy/achievement system. You could tell who actually completed the game for a review simply by looking at the trophies/achievements they unlocked.

This whole thing is a big reason why I don't trust a lot of reviewers, especially those from big publications. 

[Fierce_LiNk]

1 minute ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Sadly that does seem to be the the case these days. Publications want to have something as soon as the embargo is over for maximum clicks and you can tell by reading/watching that a lot of them haven't finished the game. YouTubers are the worst for it. It's a disgusting practice and one that I hate. 

Colin (Sacred Symbols) spoke about this a while back and it's something he seen while at IGN. It's one of the reasons why he loves the trophy/achievement system. You could tell who actually completed the game for a review simply by looking at the trophies/achievements they unlocked.

This whole thing is a big reason why I don't trust a lot of reviewers, especially those from big publications. 

I'm very disappointed to hear that. If it's someone's job to review games, they should review the whole thing after finishing it. Imagine if somebody went to see the new Star Wars film and left after 10 minutes saying it was great and we should all watch it. I find that very cheeky and quite deceptive. It just smacks of someone taking a shortcut and not wanting to do their job properly. 

I don't tend to read/watch reviews anyway. I'm much more of a fan of previews where they talk about some elements of the game or how it works, or just going off internet impressions. Forums seem to still be the best way to get impressions of games, tv shows or films. For music, as the typical album length is somewhere between 40-70 minutes, you can as easily Spotify it or YouTube it yourself and form your own opinion that way, as it's quick to do.