Jonnas Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 To be fair, there were 4 in Melee ( Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pikachu and Pichu ) and 4 in Brawl ( Trainer, Lucario, Pikchu, Jigglypuff ). We have 4 now, so i'm just hoping it's not upped any further. You said something about 4 slots despite it being 6 characters... That doesn't really matter. The developers didn't settle on the arbitrary number of 35 when making the game, they just tried to make as many characters and movesets they could. So, Pokémon Trainer still got 3 times as much time and effort as, say, Ike, despite how many slots in the Menu he takes. In practice, that was 6 Poké-characters worth of effort put into Brawl (4 of which were new). I feel it's WAY too much Now you know how I felt when Starfox (a series I was never fond of) got 3 reps in Brawl despite not having a big game since 64 It's just one franchise like fire emblem, fzero etc well, except those franchises actually have main entries on a home console and not just handheld..... On a more serious note, I won't accept that a franchise is somehow "bigger" for favouring home consoles over handhelds. Pokémon was a huge franchise, and it's still pretty darn big, especially since Pokémon X/Y is being considered one of the best entries in the franchise. F-Zero hasn't had a release in two generations, and Fire Emblem has been favouring (and selling better in) handhelds in recent years as well, its biggest game ever being for the 3DS (in fact, I think we have plenty more to see of FE in Smash) I respect your opinion, but please don't throw silly arguments like that.
dazzybee Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 You said something about 4 slots despite it being 6 characters... That doesn't really matter. The developers didn't settle on the arbitrary number of 35 when making the game, they just tried to make as many characters and movesets they could. So, Pokémon Trainer still got 3 times as much time and effort as, say, Ike, despite how many slots in the Menu he takes. In practice, that was 6 Poké-characters worth of effort put into Brawl (4 of which were new). Now you know how I felt when Starfox (a series I was never fond of) got 3 reps in Brawl despite not having a big game since 64 On a more serious note, I won't accept that a franchise is somehow "bigger" for favouring home consoles over handhelds. Pokémon was a huge franchise, and it's still pretty darn big, especially since Pokémon X/Y is being considered one of the best entries in the franchise. F-Zero hasn't had a release in two generations, and Fire Emblem has been favouring (and selling better in) handhelds in recent years as well, its biggest game ever being for the 3DS (in fact, I think we have plenty more to see of FE in Smash) I respect your opinion, but please don't throw silly arguments like that. You put "" around it, but when did I say they were bigger? I never. I just meant smash is a home console game (up until now) and Pokemon is a handheld game, just saying Pokemon doesn't deserve such prominence in response to serebii saying it's bigger than starfox fzero etc.
Jonnas Posted April 9, 2014 Posted April 9, 2014 You put "" around it, but when did I say they were bigger? I never. I just meant smash is a home console game (up until now) and Pokemon is a handheld game, just saying Pokemon doesn't deserve such prominence in response to serebii saying it's bigger than starfox fzero etc. Bad use of quotation marks on my part, true enough, but you sure implied that those other franchises were somehow worthier of whatever just because they had home entries. That was literally your argument. A poor argument, being handheld or not doesn't even factor into anything in Smash Bros. Popularity and Sakurai's opinion are bigger factors, at any rate.
Cube Posted April 10, 2014 Author Posted April 10, 2014 Isn't that the thing that replaced Sakurai for part of the direct?
Serebii Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Isn't that the thing that replaced Sakurai for part of the direct? Yeah, it's a Pokémon move. It will take a chunk of the Pokémon's Hit Points and replace itself with that substitute to absorb hits
RedShell Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Isn't that the thing that replaced Sakurai for part of the direct?Yeah, it's a really annoying move in Pokémon (especially when playing online ) called substitute. *EDIT* Beaten by the Pokémon Master.
Jonnas Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 And Greninja is using it as a Ninja Log of sorts, which is pretty awesome.
Phube Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 I just loved the fact that he refused to say "Di-rect-ly" and skirted around it!
dazzybee Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Bad use of quotation marks on my part, true enough, but you sure implied that those other franchises were somehow worthier of whatever just because they had home entries. That was literally your argument. A poor argument, being handheld or not doesn't even factor into anything in Smash Bros. Popularity and Sakurai's opinion are bigger factors, at any rate. Handheld or home console doesn't factor in smash bros? That's funny because I could've sworn the stages were from handheld games and the home console for Wii u in the main.... So it clearly does. But that wasn't my point anyway, I don't care what you thought I implied, and how the fact you've taken one line out of a broader argument, I'm just saying Pokemon shouldn't have as big a presence, now you're clearly very defensive about this issue. I wasn't saying fzero or starfox should have bigger presences, in fact I said 2 fighters and the pokeballs would be reasonable, which is still more than any bar mario, and I would argue equal, or more as the pokeballs are so varied and prevalent.
Jonnas Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Handheld or home console doesn't factor in smash bros? That's funny because I could've sworn the stages were from handheld games and the home console for Wii u in the main.... So it clearly does. But that wasn't my point anyway, I don't care what you thought I implied, and how the fact you've taken one line out of a broader argument, I'm just saying Pokemon shouldn't have as big a presence, now you're clearly very defensive about this issue. I wasn't saying fzero or starfox should have bigger presences, in fact I said 2 fighters and the pokeballs would be reasonable, which is still more than any bar mario, and I would argue equal, or more as the pokeballs are so varied and prevalent. If I'm getting defensive, it's because people tend to dismiss handheld games for little reason. But we're definitely digressing (and reaching the point where we split hairs), so I'll stop pushing it. Regarding the importance of Pokémon, I think representation of the franchise is just fine. They have stages and one of the most relevant items. Considering how big the franchise is, and how much it focus on the creatures themselves instead of locations or personalities, I think it's fair to have so many of them represented. If we take items into account in this, I think Donkey Kong, Kirby and Zelda are also above Pokémon in representation (especially Kirby). Brawl had 6 characters (the mascot, three starters, one particularly popular one... and Jigglypuff ), so I'm not expecting anything above that number. I'm guessing Mewtwo and Jigglypuff are the remaining ones, but I wouldn't be surprised if a Grass pokémon (like Sceptile) made the cut instead of one of those.
ArtMediocre Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 ...if a Grass pokémon (like Sceptile) made the "cut" instead of one of those. Sorry, i just had to :3
Fused King Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Isn't the 'substitute' rendered the same way as food in the sense that they basically use photographs of the items and then put them straight into smash. That's why it looks so realistic, I reckon.
Jonnas Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 That's what the substitute looks like in the Pokémon games too, though. But that idea of photographing real-life items is better.
Serebii Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Isn't the 'substitute' rendered the same way as food in the sense that they basically use photographs of the items and then put them straight into smash.That's why it looks so realistic, I reckon. Nope, it's different Check Greninja's use of it here at approx. 1m 45s It's clearly its own 3D model. Unlike the food, the substitute is meant to react to the ground, to attacks etc. and move accordingly so an image like food doesn't fit.
Serebii Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 I really want one now. http://www.amazon.co.jp/ポケモン-ポケモンセンターオリジナル-エルフーンのみがわりぬいぐるみ/dp/B00B49GU28/ Or a 12" tall one: http://www.amazon.co.jp/ポケモン-ポケモンセンターオリジナル-12インチ-エルフーンのみがわりぬいぐるみ/dp/B00E58UGSE/
dazzybee Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 If I'm getting defensive, it's because people tend to dismiss handheld games for little reason. Just so you know, that's not what I was doing, I love handheld games and consoles. Do we think we'll get any 3rd party characters now? Bayonetta EDTA and pacman have to be in with a shout surely?
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Just so you know, that's not what I was doing, I love handheld games and consoles. Do we think we'll get any 3rd party characters now? Bayonetta EDTA and pacman have to be in with a shout surely? Bayonetta's moveset would be a bit too similar to Zero Suit Samus, I reckon. Especially as they'd move and play very similarly. I think there's only room for one of the two.
Ike Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 http://www.amazon.co.jp/ポケモン-ポケモンセンターオリジナル-エルフーンのみがわりぬいぐるみ/dp/B00B49GU28/ Or a 12" tall one: http://www.amazon.co.jp/ポケモン-ポケモンセンターオリジナル-12インチ-エルフーンのみがわりぬいぐるみ/dp/B00E58UGSE/ Won't ship to the UK.
Serebii Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Just so you know, that's not what I was doing, I love handheld games and consoles. Do we think we'll get any 3rd party characters now? Bayonetta EDTA and pacman have to be in with a shout surely? Pac-Man, probably. Others? No. Sakurai has spoken out about putting too many third party characters in the game. I wouldn't expect more.
Jonnas Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Speaking of Pac-Man, I just remembered that he has precedent for being in a fighting game. On a Mokujin (Tekken) mecha, no less. If Pac-Man is in, I'm thinking this will be his Final Smash, at least.
Serebii Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Speaking of Pac-Man, I just remembered that he has precedent for being in a fighting game. On a Mokujin (Tekken) mecha, no less. If Pac-Man is in, I'm thinking this will be his Final Smash, at least. I'd have thought that, if he was in it, he'd eat a power pellet, grow into a large retro pacman, and akin to Ganon, race through from side to side once, taking out anyone he hits
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