flameboy Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 From Eurogamer: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-01-savour-the-wii-u-and-vita-theyre-our-new-dreamcasts What's your favourite console of all time? There are the obvious candidates - the PlayStation 2 served as the foundation for one of gaming's most fruitful eras, the SNES for its most formative, while the Xbox 360's protracted lifecycle ensures it's built a back catalogue that will be fondly remembered for years to come - as well as some more leftfield contenders. I'm set on what my own personal preferences are: when it comes to handhelds, I can't think of a finer unit than the Neo Geo Pocket, its micro-switch control stick a perfectly tactile interface for SNK's brilliantly robust games. It's an incredible machine, retaining the sense of luxury that built the Neo Geo name despite the obvious limitations of the 16 colours its 256x256 screen was able to display. For home consoles it's the Neo Geo Pocket's sometime partner the Dreamcast that's an obvious choice, and no doubt a common one. Sega's last serious piece of hardware saw it hit a brief purple patch as it poured all its resources into a machine ahead of its time, before the company found itself commercially - and, it's sadly easy to argue, creatively - spent. The legend of the Dreamcast was cemented by the likes of Ikaruga, Rez and Shenmue long before it shuffled off this mortal coil, and its legacy is kept keenly alive by fans today. What's your favourite console of all time? There are the obvious candidates - the PlayStation 2 served as the foundation for one of gaming's most fruitful eras, the SNES for its most formative, while the Xbox 360's protracted lifecycle ensures it's built a back catalogue that will be fondly remembered for years to come - as well as some more leftfield contenders. I'm set on what my own personal preferences are: when it comes to handhelds, I can't think of a finer unit than the Neo Geo Pocket, its micro-switch control stick a perfectly tactile interface for SNK's brilliantly robust games. It's an incredible machine, retaining the sense of luxury that built the Neo Geo name despite the obvious limitations of the 16 colours its 256x256 screen was able to display. For home consoles it's the Neo Geo Pocket's sometime partner the Dreamcast that's an obvious choice, and no doubt a common one. Sega's last serious piece of hardware saw it hit a brief purple patch as it poured all its resources into a machine ahead of its time, before the company found itself commercially - and, it's sadly easy to argue, creatively - spent. The legend of the Dreamcast was cemented by the likes of Ikaruga, Rez and Shenmue long before it shuffled off this mortal coil, and its legacy is kept keenly alive by fans today. Finding champions for the Wii U proves a little tougher, though - or at least it's hard to hear them amidst the overriding din of the doomsayers. They're right, of course. The Wii U, presently, is a failure, and a sizeable one at that. Nintendo, like Sega before it, took a gamble in trying to get the jump on a generation, but despite both consoles being quick off the blocks by the time Sony and Microsoft arrived, third-party support had evaporated and the head-start was for nowt. Even in its darkest hour the Dreamcast was backed by a loyal chorus of supporters, yet the WiI U's patronage has been a little more muted. Perhaps it's because, as was pointed out to me recently, Nintendo's approach to game design is out of step with the current trend, even if its art is as strong as it's ever been. At a time when games are striving hard for high-brow validation, Nintendo's still defiantly and proudly making toys. There's no grand allegory for the human condition on Puffrod Peaks, and no stark peek into the heart of darkness atop Mount Must Dash: there's just peerless craft, and ingenious engineering. It doesn't help that the Wii U's one of Nintendo's more curious toys too, a machine of half-formed ideas and unfulfilled promise. But, like the Dreamcast before it, it's a unique proposition, and thanks to its less than stellar reception, it'll likely always remain that way. Miiverse remains one of gaming's most open-armed and delightful communities, and while the GamePad may have struggled to justify its existence, the few times it has found its purpose the results have been breathtaking. NintendoLand played at full tilt, with four players pitched against one hoarding that infamous second screen, is an experience that deserves to sit alongside the Dreamcast's Samba de Amigo or Chu Chu Rocket as an eccentric classic for the ages. There's nobility in failure, and in those half-baked concepts and dead ends of design that blight beleaguered consoles there are so often sparkling ideas truly worth cherishing. The Vita and Wii U might still struggle, but if you're into the business of enjoying games rather than just dry business, it's worth ignoring the headlines, and instead embracing two future cult classics in the making. Thoughts, feelings, arguments? I think whilst the argument could be made that neither Sony or Nintendo are on their last legs financially like Sega were there could be an argument that both these consoles will be profitable enough to see them through to the next gen. However I have my doubts. For example GameCube didn't set the world alight but sold 21 million worldwide and was a console I think a lot of people were excited for, along with excited during the life of. The Wii U by comparison has been maligned since the start and only apparently sold 5.6 million I can't see it recovering to that "status" at all!
liger05 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Neither come close to matching the quality software output of the DC. The DC was short lived but really was ahead of its time. I didnt suffer any droughts with the DC, just game after game after game. A true gem of a console!!
Cube Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Neither are from companies that are in any kind of real financial trouble. The Dreamcast was a last-ditch effort from a company who was on the verge of death, and had to give up a huge portion of their business after it didn't go as planned. The Wii U and Vita are GameCubes - they won't be huge sellers, but they'll still do decent enough to gain a profit until the next consoles are out.
ZeldaWard82 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I am really scared for the WIIU I dont know what will happen in the future. Even Nintendo cannot survive being 100% ignored by 3rd parties... Even the Cube had some kind of support all the time....
Hero-of-Time Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 It's got a loooong way to go to match this lineup. Capcom were in god mode in this generation.
liger05 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Neither are from companies that are in any kind of real financial trouble. The Dreamcast was a last-ditch effort from a company who was on the verge of death, and had to give up a huge portion of their business after it didn't go as planned. The Wii U and Vita are GameCubes - they won't be huge sellers, but they'll still do decent enough to gain a profit until the next consoles are out. I wouldn't be so sure of that. Vita is stabilising somewhat in Japan but in the West it's practically dead @ retail. The wii u may not even hit the revised forecast and no way is it a guarantee it will well GC numbers.
dazzybee Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 The VITA is in an infinite more dire position than Wii U, so much so it's almost not comparable. Vita is dead outside of Japan, Wii U is loitering in all territories. But the big difference is the support, we think the Wii U doesn't have much coming out but the Vita is even worse. I realise this isn't a comparison, but it kind of underlines my thoughts on it, the VITA will have a couple of games a year that'll be really good but it just won't get much support from 3rd parties or even sony. But I think Nintendo are going to go all out on the wii u and it will see loads of great games, coupled with the improvements of the digital services i think they'll pull it around and it'll do better than the gamecube. As for them consoles which bomb but are great... I personally think the vita is the worst console I've ever bought, and I had Jaguar, mega cd, 32X etc The machine is impressive and there are some great games, but there's barely anything on it! The Wii U i'm really loving, I personally love the gamepad and what it offers, I love Nintendoland, Zombi u as unique games not possible on anything else and think Pikmin and Mario are some of the best of their kind.
Jonnas Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Man, those Power Stone covers... how come the main character is so out of focus?
Wii Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 The Wii U is no Gamecube. I loved the Gamecube at the time and still do. At this moment I don't love the Wii U and when this generation is over I think it'll be even less. The Wii U can only dream of standing in the shadows cast by Gamecube and Dreamcast. It could change but highly unlikely. The great thing is this won't be the end of Nintendo but I hope this serves as a red hot, razor edged poker shoved up Nintendo's @$$ and a lesson they never care to repeat. "Half baked" stood out from that article. That's what Wii U is. Gamecube reached 21 million and turned a nice profit. Wii U will do neither. I doubt it'll be around in at most 2 years.
Retro_Link Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Sorry to quote all these pics again but... It's got a loooong way to go to match this lineup. Capcom were in god mode in this generation. ... my smile just got bigger and bigger as I scrolled through this list *will he remember and include *insert game*... theeeere it is!!*
flameboy Posted February 6, 2014 Author Posted February 6, 2014 The VITA is in an infinite more dire position than Wii U, so much so it's almost not comparable. Vita is dead outside of Japan, Wii U is loitering in all territories. But the big difference is the support, we think the Wii U doesn't have much coming out but the Vita is even worse. I realise this isn't a comparison, but it kind of underlines my thoughts on it, the VITA will have a couple of games a year that'll be really good but it just won't get much support from 3rd parties or even sony. But I think Nintendo are going to go all out on the wii u and it will see loads of great games, coupled with the improvements of the digital services i think they'll pull it around and it'll do better than the gamecube. As for them consoles which bomb but are great... I personally think the vita is the worst console I've ever bought, and I had Jaguar, mega cd, 32X etc The machine is impressive and there are some great games, but there's barely anything on it! The Wii U i'm really loving, I personally love the gamepad and what it offers, I love Nintendoland, Zombi u as unique games not possible on anything else and think Pikmin and Mario are some of the best of their kind. I cannot agree with this at all. The Vita is outselling the Wii U worldwide and slowly finding it's niche as this on the go console for cool indie games that you only have to buy once!!!! (Ever heard of cross buy Nintendo?!) It has a ton of games so much so that Sony can continue to consistently give out 2 new titles every month. Wii U would be done with it's software library in less than a year if they offered a Plus like service! The Wii U is still floundering around trying to find something to latch on to.
dazzybee Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I cannot agree with this at all. The Vita is outselling the Wii U worldwide and slowly finding it's niche as this on the go console for cool indie games that you only have to buy once!!!! (Ever heard of cross buy Nintendo?!) It has a ton of games so much so that Sony can continue to consistently give out 2 new titles every month. Wii U would be done with it's software library in less than a year if they offered a Plus like service! The Wii U is still floundering around trying to find something to latch on to. Really? It's been out a year longer and doesn't have loads more sales, wouldn't surprise me if by the end of 2014 Wii U had outsold it. Be close I guess though. As for games, I really think the Vita lineup is poor. And what is there coming out in the whole of 2014?! I may be wrong, but I thought it was just presumed it had borderline no support!
Sheikah Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I would also very much disagree with that. Vita isn't doing great but realistically there was not too high an expectation for it (even though Sony wanted it to do very well, it had many of the hallmarks of PSP but with fewer potential games like Monster Hunter). It's hard to compare Vita to Wii U since the former is a sequel to a console which never exactly led the handheld market while the latter was a sequel to a console that took the world by storm. When making comparisons, it's all relative. Put it this way - look at any gaming blog and you will see how much criticism there is for the Wii U and what Nintendo should do to make amends. Anything Sony related is usually about how great the PS4 is doing. When it comes down to it, I think a lot of people are actually happy with the Vita console itself (although want more games and better memory card prices). With the Wii U it's getting a lot of hate across the board. Edited February 6, 2014 by Sheikah
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Nostalgia always hampers the senses - However, looking back the Dreamcast had a hell of a lot of shovleware and arcadey games not worth the asking price. Technology-wise, I do wonder how the market would be if Sega were still making hardware...! Sega pretty much had its Wii U 15 years ago!
liger05 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I cannot agree with this at all. The Vita is outselling the Wii U worldwide and slowly finding it's niche as this on the go console for cool indie games that you only have to buy once!!!! (Ever heard of cross buy Nintendo?!) It has a ton of games so much so that Sony can continue to consistently give out 2 new titles every month. Wii U would be done with it's software library in less than a year if they offered a Plus like service! The Wii U is still floundering around trying to find something to latch on to. Selling more than the Wii U isnt exactly something to shout about. The platform may be finding a niche but thats not what Sony had in mind when they launched it. Its sold well below expectations and is now being promoted as a PS4 accessory. I would also very much disagree with that. Vita isn't doing great but realistically there was not too high an expectation for it (even though Sony wanted it to do very well, it had many of the hallmarks of PSP but with fewer potential games like Monster Hunter). It's hard to compare Vita to Wii U since the former is a sequel to a console which never exactly led the handheld market while the latter was a sequel to a console that took the world by storm. When making comparisons, it's all relative. Put it this way - look at any gaming blog and you will see how much criticism there is for the Wii U and what Nintendo should do to make amends. Anything Sony related is usually about how great the PS4 is doing. When it comes down to it, I think a lot of people are actually happy with the Vita console itself (although want more games and better memory card prices). With the Wii U it's getting a lot of hate across the board. The Vita followed a platform that sold 80 mil units. Lets not try and make excuses or downplay its commercial performance. The platform has tanked and even in Japan where handhelds are king its underperformed. In the West it's practically non existant. Just look at how it sold in Nov/Dec in the US. It bombed. Of course there are people happy with it and you could find plenty people who are happy with there wii u but both are failures commercially. Edited February 6, 2014 by liger05
Grazza Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 For example GameCube didn't set the world alight but sold 21 million worldwide and was a console I think a lot of people were excited for, along with excited during the life of. Well said. It was exciting to own the GameCube. I remember boasting to my friends about F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime and Wind Waker (as well as others). When there was a 3rd-party release, like Prince of Persia or a Spider-Man/Hulk game, you could look forward to it and know the GC port would be pretty much as good as the PS2/Xbox version. Of course, the console didn't get everything, but you can't win everyone over. And this is without mentioning that amazing feeling of waiting for Twilight Princess, "knowing" that it'd outclass everything on PS2/Xbox (whatever the reality, it was a fantastic time, generating true excitement amongst the fanbase). Quote from Eurogamer: Nintendo's approach to game design is out of step with the current trend, even if its art is as strong as it's ever been. At a time when games are striving hard for high-brow validation, Nintendo's still defiantly and proudly making toys. There's no grand allegory for the human condition on Puffrod Peaks, and no stark peek into the heart of darkness atop Mount Must Dash: there's just peerless craft, and ingenious engineering. I don't quite agree with this. Just because Nintendo's flimsier titles don't grab me, that doesn't mean I want anything pretentious. There's a middle ground. For example, I said in another thread that many of us became gripped with Nintendo because of the immersive, atmospheric 3D worlds and stories (and yes, gameplay) present in games like Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask. Those titles weren't exactly held up as paragons of storytelling in the same way as The Last Of Us is, but gamers knew they were brilliant, and that's what counts. I don't want the wider media's validation, I just want to be enchanted again. What I'm saying is that it's not a straight choice between "high-brow" or "light". If Nintendo continues to lose fans (and let's be optimistic - it may not), it won't necessarily be because everyone wants acclaimed, high-brow games at the expensive of things like Nintendoland. There's another type of gaming experience that many value, but others (including Nintendo) seem to forget too quickly.
lostmario Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 *will he remember and include *insert game*... theeeere it is!!* I did the same but he did forget one.
EEVILMURRAY Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I feel as if they made half a console properly, and then decided to wing it from that point onward. What it needs is a killer app and soon. The obvious choices - Zelda, Metroid, Mario (Something more 64/Sunshine/Galaxy, not Land/World), and not just HD'ing an old game. You would've thought they would've learnt this by now and had something more than "Q3 2014", or whatever. The next big things which will prove good sellers (I hope) will be Smash Bros. and Mario Kart. Lessee after that. It's got a loooong way to go to match this lineup. Have this for sale if anyone wants it.
dazzybee Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I would also very much disagree with that. Vita isn't doing great but realistically there was not too high an expectation for it (even though Sony wanted it to do very well, it had many of the hallmarks of PSP but with fewer potential games like Monster Hunter). It's hard to compare Vita to Wii U since the former is a sequel to a console which never exactly led the handheld market while the latter was a sequel to a console that took the world by storm. When making comparisons, it's all relative. Put it this way - look at any gaming blog and you will see how much criticism there is for the Wii U and what Nintendo should do to make amends. Anything Sony related is usually about how great the PS4 is doing. When it comes down to it, I think a lot of people are actually happy with the Vita console itself (although want more games and better memory card prices). With the Wii U it's getting a lot of hate across the board. Oh boy... some of the things you post... We weren't talking about execration for one, but you say there wasn't a high expectation? Utter bull. There was massive expectation in it, to build on the success of the vita!! It's just over 7 million units approaching it's third year!! Making comparisons can be relevant when you choose sides and facts that TRY and suit your agreement like you are. It's painful. But forget all that, forget history and expectations, let's just look at the two consoles. Vita is dying and getting no support, the wii u isn't too far behind, year younger and getting pretty much full support from Nintendo.
nekunando Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I did the same but he did forget one. I didn't see Sega Rally 2 or Daytona USA in there either..
Sheikah Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) dazzy, you really need to stop being so rude in your posts. Saying that what someone else thinks is 'utter bull' is just plain disrespectful. And to elaborate on my earlier post... yes Sony expected it to do much better than it did (as did we all), but since it was again following the 'home console portable' route that the PSP did then it's not such a shock that it isn't leading the handheld market (once again, Nintendo is). Worse, unlike when they launched the PSP they've now lost Monster Hunter while Nintendo gained Dragon Quest. Nintendo practically have assured Japan handheld domination as those two games print money. As for why it's doing so bad...the 3DS is also doing pretty badly relative to how well Nintendo handhelds normally do. It's partly down to mobile/tablet gaming, and also a lack of games. I doubt we'll see similar to PSP units shifted with the Vita mainly down to mobile competition. That's why it's hard to directly compare a handheld's (Vita) sales to a home console's (Wii U). Handhelds are suffering with mobile competition, whereas home consoles are still flourishing (see PS4 launch). Edited February 6, 2014 by Sheikah
dazzybee Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 dazzy, you really need to stop being so rude in your posts. Saying that what someone else thinks is 'utter bull' is just plain disrespectful. And to elaborate on my earlier post... yes Sony expected it to do much better than it did (as did we all), but since it was again following the 'home console portable' route that the PSP did then it's not such a shock that it isn't leading the handheld market (once again, Nintendo is). Worse, unlike when they launched the PSP they've now lost Monster Hunter while Nintendo gained Dragon Quest. Nintendo practically have assured Japan handheld domination as those two games print money. As for why it's doing so bad...the 3DS is also doing pretty badly relative to how well Nintendo handhelds normally do. It's partly down to mobile/tablet gaming, and also a lack of games. I doubt we'll see similar to PSP units shifted with the Vita mainly down to mobile competition. That's why it's hard to directly compare a handheld's (Vita) sales to a home console's (Wii U). Handhelds are suffering with mobile competition, whereas home consoles are still flourishing (see PS4 launch). I'm sorry, but I just though it was, seemed like a weird attempt, again, to make out sony aint doing too badly, but nintendo are doing awful. You lack objectivity far too often. This post however, doesn't. And I agree with a lot of it; moving forward though, it doesn't look an rosier, I really expected Sony to start putting some effort in. If the Vita doesn't get much support from now on, do people think it has enough on the system for a potential future cult classic?! One slight problem with this, us that a lot of the best games are also on the ps3/4. When we think of cult classics, it's because of the games solely on that system. And here I think it fails miserable. With the Wii U, I think if you love NIntendos games, I expect the wii u to jump immediately into that status. Nintendo are going to have to try their best with this machine so I expect lots of their games and hopefully new IP to be put on the console. Already I think Pikmin is the best pikmin, Mario 3D world is a borderline masterpiece, Wonderful 1010 is the type of quirky game people remember and even nintenodland will stay in the memory for a long time. Sales may not come, but I fully expect there to be some incredible exclusive games over the years.
Mr_Master_X2 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Dreamcast was fantastic. It was my first at home internet access, too. Games so bloody awesome, and set up properly the picture laser sharp. FOLLOW MY RAINBOW!! I had that tune so stuck in my head.
Sheikah Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I'm sorry, but I just though it was, seemed like a weird attempt, again, to make out sony aint doing too badly, but nintendo are doing awful. You lack objectivity far too often. This post however, doesn't. And I agree with a lot of it; moving forward though, it doesn't look an rosier, I really expected Sony to start putting some effort in. I appreciate it looks biased, but I don't know how else to explain that particular phenomenon. Nintendo just seems to be getting slated across gaming blogs/news sites (also a lot of articles like 'how to save the Wii U'), while Sony are often being praised. Even though both have a struggling piece of hardware.
tapedeck Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Loved the DC. Seeing the graphics for the first time was like seeing your first rainbow. Similarities begin and end here:
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