#04 - N-Europe: Let's Talk Games (Pokémon Ruby & Sapphire)

[Fused King]

Let us venture into the realm of Serebii:

 

 

I don't see much use in posting average scores anymore if only 5 or so people post them...

 

Thus let's just get rid of that stupid rule and just TALK SOME GAMES!!!

[Retro_Link]

I think @ReZourceman will like this choice of topic!

[Jonnas]

For reference, for those of you who missed the previous threads in this series:

 

#01 - Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

#02 - Super Mario Sunshine

#03 - Chrono Trigger

 

I will also post a review on this thread, in a couple of days. As a preview, I will say that in my opinion, this is the most interesting Pokémon Generation that Fused King could've chosen.

[Debug Mode]

Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire are those Pokemon games I love to hate, but when you look back on it, this should have been the defining point of the Pokemon franchise. I shit on it all the time because I fucking hate the encounter rate when I surfed (which is a pain in the fucking ass considering just how much of it you'll be doing), the god awful sound font that they used for what could have been an epic soundtrack, no day and night cycle (still a huge step back in my opinion) and a really lacking post game content which made me long for the mind blowing journey to another region that was pulled off in Gold and Silver. But it was the start of a new direction of Pokemon.

 

I first played Sapphire with a Japanese ROM I found on the internet. I blitzed through it in the same manner I did with Pokemon Gold when I found out there was a sequel to Blue we were going to have to wait for a while to play. Understood shit, reached the end, stopped. I picked up Ruby after much procrastination a couple of months after its UK release (the first ever Pokemon main series title I wasn't in a rush to get). I've now sold that cartridge, coincidentally the first and only time I've sold a copy of Pokemon as I really didn't care much for it after I bought Fire Red and Leaf Green. Yeah, I disliked it that much at first.

 

If I had just been a little bit older, or just waited a little longer, this might have all been very very different. Ruby and Sapphire was a treasure trove of new, very much hidden at the time, features that has made Pokemon as competitive and as deep as it is today. I couldn't grasp why they didn't bother continuing with the time machine mechanic that allowed Gold and Silver to interact with Blue and Red, it annoyed me that I couldn't get those bros over to Ruby and Sapphire, I had no idea that the system that dictated the way Pokemon are generated and stored had been completely over hauled. Every Pokemon now has an ability or two, they have one of many natures that influence stat growth, the behind the scenes stat system widened the Individual Value range that was essentially the Pokemon's DNA and the effort value system was also reworked so trainers had more obvious control over the growth of their Pokemon. Every Pokemon was now one in a billion, and I assume this is what Spinda was supposed to visually demonstrate to the player. This was completely lost to my young teenager self, all I ever looked for on the internet was Pokemon data, I never dug deep enough to find out this stuff. Oh, and lets not forget Double Battles.

 

And now all that stuff is the main stream. Every one knows how to do it, every one regards it as absolutely essential to make competitively viable Pokemon but yeah it has no bearing on the core game itself for those who don't want to invest that much time and just want to have a little fun (Like Smash Bros Melee, it's pure Nintendo magic).

 

The Pokemon design was pretty good as well. I don't get the hatred for the newer generations of Pokemon design, they're all very fun and charming creatures, but there was just something about the theme of Generation III's designs that resonates well with me. The Regi's, the event Pokemon, Latios & Latias, it all felt very spacey (even more so than Diamond and Pearl, which was supposed to be all Space & Time focussed).

 

Other shout outs as to what made Ruby and Sapphire pretty fun was the little house full of puzzles, the hidden bases (even if I only had one person to play with), record mixing, the acro bike, it's beyond me how Game Freak hasn't reimplimented some of these features now that we have the internet to maximise the enjoyment of these features.

 

But I can't play Ruby and Sapphire any more. I can still see the appeal in MOST original versions of the Pokemon games like GS, DP, BW, but Ruby and Sapphire were just so dry once you finished. This only becomes more of a problem when you go back through nostalgia, because all the stuff we have now in Pokemon just makes that end game even more lacking. Emerald, however, was a fucking amazing third version to these games and I can now understand why a lot of people consider it the ultimate version of Pokemon. I used to not understand, until Gen V and VI came around and got me slightly into breeding. I've actually got Emerald lined up to play again at some point soon, maybe now I'll stand a chance at the Battle Frontier (which no version since has managed to live up to and Game Freak hasn't even tried in 2 generations).

 

Conclusion:

Ruby and Sapphire have some very annoying issues, and took a couple of steps back from what I loved most in Generation 2. But it was just a little too ahead of its time for me, as I didn't notice the huge step forward that is the foundation of what Pokemon is today.

 

Edited February 3, 2014 by Debug Mode

[S.C.G]

@Debug Mode has summed up the games perfectly so all I will say about Pokemon Ruby & Sapphire is...

 

This was the first Pokemon generation when I didn't 'catch 'em all!' so for all of their brilliance these games basically represent the beginning of the end regarding what the series actually meant to me.

 

Every generation since it seems that I have ended up playing each title less and less - with perhaps a slight surge after the latest games - so while I certainly enjoy the main game, when it comes to the post-game where things are supposed to get even better I just don't see much point in carrying on.

 

However I remember R&S post-game to be rather good, but just not as amazing as G&S was at the time, the diving element was cool though as were the newly introduced natures of Pokemon, secret bases etc so while it was a leap forward perhaps it just didn't feel like it at the time for whatever reason.

 

Verdict: Probably the greatest Pokemon games of their time, relatively unappreciated but still a significant series milestone.

[Ike]

My least favourite games in the series, although for some reason I enjoyed Emerald a lot more. Wasn't hyped for these before release but once it came out I bought it that weekend.

 

Wasn't a fan of the Pokemon designs minus the legendaries.

 

I did like the area that was covered in volcanic ash, and secret bases were cool but not got much out of them. Would work great with Streetpass, I still don't know what X&Y's Streetpass does.

[Blue Rogue]

I enjoyed my Sapphire version when I did my first run through all those years ago. As I have every Pokemon game. With the exception of Diamond and Pearl that was the one generation I don't think I played all the way through.

 

One thing I really liked in these versions was Contests. I know I'm in a minority when it comes to them but I really had fun with them. I wish they expanded upon them more in future generations. Unfortunately they didn't have enough fans to justify keeping them in.

[ReZourceman]

Man Debug just smashed it.

 

Yeah basically.

 

For some reason, at the time this came out I just wasn't into Pokemon. I must not have got it for a good long while, maybe even a year or something, and when I eventually got it, my feels were much the same as Waffle's - I liked it, it had some cool stuff, but it didn't blow me.

 

It is a weird one, it really is.

 

 

 

I fucking LOVED Emerald though.

[Sheikah]

I think the initial Pokemon fans of red and blue had sorta grown up by this point to teenagers, the only time in your life when it seems uncool to like Pokemon. I didn't play this at the time, actually...much later on I think.

 

I didn't like the transition to be honest. Blue/Gold were my favourite games and I felt like Ruby/Sapphire was the start of bad looking Pokemon (possibly artist switchover or something), particularly the legendaries which looked a bit ridiculous/almost computer generated. I think by this point too, having had two previous games where the objectives/gameplay were mostly the same meant I was left burnt out on Pokemon. It also felt like a downgrade from Gold, which had more gyms and the day/night cycle.

 

I actually preferred Pokemon when it was far less complicated like in Blue; it was more fun. Having a Pokemon you have to arduously track down across maps, having berries (fuck berries) to learn what they do, and god knows there were loads, and an ever expanding encyclopaedia of Pokemon such that getting them all between generations had started to become difficult and tedious....shit. Keep it simple, that's what I like. The first 151 Pokemon were the best anyway, and 151 was enough for me.

 

Pokemon was much more fun before this game hit, is pretty much my feelings.

 

6.9/10

Edited February 4, 2014 by Sheikah

[The Peeps]

I really liked Ruby and Sapphire. The secret bases were a brilliant addition... it's diamond and pearl that I don't get on with. Bland and boring!

[Fused King]

Apparently, we seemed to have lost most of the NINTENDO gaming boards people now

[Jonnas]

Apparently, we seemed to have lost most of the NINTENDO gaming boards people now

 

I think it's more a case of less people having played Ruby&Sapphire. Though I'd love to hear @Serebii's opinion.

 

-------------------

 

For starters, some context. I got into the Pokémania when Blue first came out and I was hooked. The main reason I kept playing it was mostly because of my friends, who also got into Pokémon. So we watched the cartoon, played the card game, the spin-offs, etc.

 

RBY lasted for a while, and when Gold&Silver came out, we were less into the franchise... But that second generation was so amazing, we stuck with it (and since this is not a GSC review, I will refrain from saying more).

 

Eventually, Pokémon made the leap to the GBA... a console none of us had. Some of us considered getting it, but... the lack of compatibility with previous versions, as well as old favourites not appearing, turned us off the franchise.

 

Years later, I got introduced to roms, and I decided to see what I missed with Sapphire (and also play Fire Red for nostalgia). I left the franchise alone again afterwards, until last year, when I had the itch to play them again (this time on my phone).

 

	Audio

 

The core Pokémon gameplay is intact. You catch, train and battle as you always did. The only difference that really shook things up was Natures (and what a fine addition it was, it allowed for so much more variety in design, and much more interesting battles). Another significant difference was the fact that enemies were smarter and more difficult (Steven will not take any of your shit).

 

In terms of sidequests, there were some cool things to explore. The secret bases, the puzzle/labyrinth house, that mystery island (which I didn't quite figure out) and that weird braille puzzle (I've also heard of the Frontier League, but I didn't really play Emerald). The Pokémon contests also looked really interesting, seemed like they had their own metagame going on.

But for some reason, they removed the day/night cycle. Man, that was a major step back.

 

How about the new Pokémon? I thought a good handful of them looked good and fun (Metagross & Dusclops ftw), but the majority was... so useless, or a one-trick pony (Yes, Luvdisc, Chimecho and Kecleon, I'm talking to you), so there's not much point in their existence other than their rarity. Plus, stuff like Beautifly replacing Butterfree...

 

Graphically, these games were impressive. Details like leaving footprints and seeing your reflection in the water were so cool. But I also remember the awful sound output (so annoying and unpleasant) and the horrible font they chose (though I know they changed it for future games).

 

But here's what is most important. This generation is interesting because it wiped the slate clean as well as it could. It was a fresh start for the franchise, which was both a good and a bad thing. On one hand, it allowed them to redefine a few core aspects of the franchise (introducing EVs and Natures, for example) and determine what the future was going to be (to prevent more full reboots from being needed).

 

On the other hand, they essentially alienated their previous fanbase, what with needing a new console, being unable to transfer your old Pokémon, removing/replacing the old favourites (at first), removing the real time system... even removing Team Rocket! It felt so different for the sake of being different.

 

And that's a pretty major flaw. Pokémon is a social game, it always has been. If your friends aren't playing it, it's not worth it. By making the transition so difficult, it creates a vicious cycle where you won't get the new one because your friends likely won't, and they in turn are convinced by you, etc.

 

I'd say this was a necessary step, even if it wasn't apparent at first. It was a rough transition that paid its dividends in the long run, but this rocky start feels like...

 

6/10

 

Because all things considered, Pokémon is a pretty fun formula, and even when things reach a low point, it's still a pretty enjoyable experience. Just not a great one.

[Serebii]

Apparently, we seemed to have lost most of the NINTENDO gaming boards people now

 

Yep, didn't know it was still being done :p

 

======

 

Ruby & Sapphire are a mixed bag. They introduced a load of amazing staples to the Pokémon franchise that exist today such as Natures, Abilities, Berries and Double Battles.

 

There were also a load of changes to the mechanics that caused them to have to cut off compatibility with the previous generation (which I wish they had done BW into XY due to the hacks, but that's another issue). They increased the IVs per stat from 15 to 31 and added a cap to Effort Values at 510 total (in Gens 1 & 2 you could max out each stat) which added a layer of strategy to work out how best to train your Pokémon.

 

Pokémon-wise, I was very critical of it. Though while it has absolute stinkers like Grumpig (the only Pokémon I hate, and I don't know why), it has many awesome designs and awesome Pokémon.

 

Now, the game itself...this is where things get a bit iffy. Hoenn, as a region, just never sat right. It felt its order was convoluted for the sake of being convoluted. There wasn't that much variety and the characters were a bit bland...and the water, oh god there was way too much water to navigate. While the underwater aspects were cool, the amount of surfing, especially with random encounters, is unacceptable.

 

Story wise, it was over far too quickly. There weren't enough Magma/Aqua encounters, and you never faced your rival with them having fully evolved Pokémon, which is utterly ridiculous.

 

Ruby & Sapphire almost killed my love of the franchise. FireRed & LeafGreen kept me hanging in there, and Diamond & Pearl brought me back. I will always resent these games for that.

[Retro_Link]

Only Pokemon games I've experienced are Red and Blue :p

 

However I do feel I can somewhat offer an opinion on the game, in terms of why I didn't feel compelled to pick the game up.

 

For me after Red and Blue a number of the gameplay and design choices they made with Pokemon just didn't really appeal to me. Whilst the designs of the 100 new Pokemon in Gold and Silver were ok'ish, I didn't really feel the game needed the addition of Pokemon breeding and gender specific pokemon etc.. and in order to get some of the Pokemon. It just didn't feel like something I wanted to be doing in the game. I kind of wanted to play as the same character from Red and Blue as well.

 

Move forward to Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire and this time especially the designs I was seeing of the new Pokemon really didn't appeal to me, the ones on the cover were enough to make me see they were headed in the wrong direction. Again new features like double battle on top of ones already introduced in gold and silver just further lessoned the appeal.

 

It's sounding like I just wanted Pokemon to stay the same, which obviously a series should never do... however maybe the only way I can describe it was that Pokemon Red was just the perfect gameplay experience for me, the pokemon were incredible, and the TV series accompanied it in the perfect way at the time. It was exactly what I wanted and I loved that game. Maybe that was all I needed from this series, because I've never really been compelled to return to it (although I did think Black and White looked pretty good).

 

 

Yep, didn't know it was still being done :p

Why is this out of interest? (just trying to understand peoples movements on here) because you come in this board all the time for the Sales thread, as do numerous other members?

 

People just don't bother looking at the rest of the board as well or?

Edited February 7, 2014 by Retro_Link

[Retro_Link]

Moved this thread back to Nintendo Gaming for now. I don't know if the fewer post for this game are a result of less people having played it or because less people go into General Gaming (although that doesn't really appear to be the case, as there are quite a few often used threads in there).

 

It's a good thread series, so it's a shame if anyone's overlooking it.

[Mandalore]

It's the last generation I actually liked the designs of the main legendary Pokemon. Everything after just looks like overcomplicated digimon rubbish. The starters were also pretty cool. I don't really remember that much of the games, but the desert, volcano and long grass areas were nice.

 

I remember thinking the double battles were gimmicky rubbish. Now they're the standard at international tournaments.

 

As others have mentioned, those secret bases are so asking for StreetPass. If the next 3DS games are remakes of Ruby and Sapphire, those secret bases better be in it!

[M_rock]

I actually loved Ruby and Sapphire alot! Albeit I was very young when they came out in Europe.

I bought my GBA together with pokemon Ruby, and it was really everything I wanted as a kid!

Of course I didn't understand the drastic change in the way pokemon were coded back then(with the natures, EV's and IV's),

but it's still very relevant and important to the gameplay of today's pokemon games.

 

I really liked the story with a more supportive rival, instead of the jerktype we got in previous version, and the region felt really diverse and unique! I mean we had ocean city's, jungle area's, a volcano, desert, and oh yeah lots of sea

Seriously though, about the sea: It's frickin awesome? There even was an abandoned wreck of a ship. The random encounters made me crazy too, but repels can help hahah.

The designs of the new monsters were really good at that time, and I still like them alot compared to other weaker generations of designs.

 

Ruby and Sapphire just felt like a huge fun adventure, way more than X/Y ever did. The music sounds epic and the harsh environment of the region only complements that. Finding out I needed to read Braille to get to the 3 regi's and uncovering their secret still remains one of my most fond gaming memories as a kid. This generation dropped some important innovations (day'n night cycle...), but it also proposed alot and alot of new ones! (Types of bikes, secret bases, double battle, battle tower, pkmn natures...................)

 

So yeah, the games are obviously not without flaws, but the total package still remains a very good game that has been the funding for today's games as well. They'll always have a special place in my collection

 

8.5/10

[Guy]

Too much of a step back from what was offered in Gold and Silver. This generation was when my Pokemon fatigue set in and it stayed around until X and Y which felt like the first true evolution of the series since Johto.

 

I know all the competitive stuff was born in this generation, but I never even started thinking about that until later games. If anything it just made the games more complicated for someone like me.

 

My brother and I, like Gold and Silver, imported Japanese copies of the games. Only they turned out to be fakes with NinFendo written across the back. I was mad back then, but it makes me laugh now. Says a lot about Ruby and Sapphire that the fake cartridges are my only real memory. Probably still have them somewhere.

 

What the hell was the main male guy wearing on his head? Is that a hat or hair? To this day I don't even know.

 

Some of the new designs were cool though. I think Mawile showed by here and Mawile is definitely one of my favourites.

 

60/100.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Guy

[Goron_3]

People say this game was a step back for G&S but I disagree; this game was a huge step forward, minus the day/night mechanic which imo didn't add much (and also required the cartridge to have a battery, I believe).

 

First, G&S were hugely over rated. The Johto story was so short compared to Kanto in Red/Bue; the Elite 4 were incredibly low levelled (level 40's vs Kanto's level 50's) and the post game was nostalgic but was just a wasted opportunity; there was no flow to it at all.

 

Now, Ruby and Sapphire...I loved them. Firstly the music was brilliant and some of my favourite of the series. The starters were great (Blaziken was ridiculously overpowered, but the other two were very good as well) and I loved the range of new Pokemon. Nintendo gave us more Ghost, Dragon and Steel types which I appreciated although the one thing I didn't enjoy as much was the art style; it just seemed a bit off.

 

I liked Hoenn; okay, the world had a lot of water but the variety in the towns was amazing! A town made in a forest, one near a volcano with ash sprayed everywhere...I just loved the variety. The water was frustrating but that's what repel's are for, right?

 

I think the best thing about the game was that I felt compelled to explore the world. Discovering new bases (a fantastic idea), the Regi's and of course Rayquaza were hugely rewarding, but so was discovering Bagon and other rare Pokemon. I also really enjoyed the changes that we saw regarding mechanics, and EV training great as it allowed you to customise how you wanted you pokemon to be. I also found some of the gyms to be pretty difficult and the pacing of the game was great.

 

So, to summarise....I loved these games, and they are probably my favourite since Red/Blue

[Ville]

Ruby and Sapphire were released on July 25th 2003, which was just bad timing overall. I was trying to get into university, me and my brother weren't living in the same room or even house anymore etc. RB and GS were awesome because we both had a copy and could trade with each other. With RS, however, the possibility wasn't there anymore plus the games felt like mishmashes of old and new. Also, they were on the GBA and I didn't buy that until the Wind Waker came along, so the end result was skipping Gen III altogether.

 

Well, I did end up buying Emerald some years ago, and finished it just now. I tried playing it properly at some point, but of course it's gonna feel rather hollow now when the newer versions are out already. This time I just soloed most of the game with Blaziken and took Rayquaza with me to the Elite 4, worked pretty well. The music in the game is awesome, just like in Gen IV, otherwise it was ok.

 

Like people have been arguing, the trading / collecting mechanic is the soul of the games in my opinion. Catching them all in RB and GS was pretty darn fun, so when the option wasn't there anymore, I ended up skipping RS and the later gens as well. I did buy Pokemon Y now though, in the hopes of the GTS and Poke Bank bringing the trade aspect back...we'll see what happens.

[Jonnas]

R

Well, I did end up buying Emerald some years ago, and finished it just now. I tried playing it properly at some point, but of course it's gonna feel rather hollow now when the newer versions are out already. This time I just soloed most of the game with Blaziken and took Rayquaza with me to the Elite 4, worked pretty well. The music in the game is awesome, just like in Gen IV, otherwise it was ok.

 

Did you play the Frontier League? Those challenges sounded interesting, but I haven't played Emerald.

[Ville]

Nope, like I said it's kind of hard to get exciting about it since the newer gens are out there already. The challenge stuff in Emerald does seem cool, but I just beat Elite 4 and that was that...

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Hated the coastal, southern European feel of the map, as well as all the hideout and berrie drivvle. Disliked seeing those hyena-like Pokemon EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

However for me, the advent of Ninjask and the evolution of Shedinja redeems these titles.

[ChloboShoka]

I loved playing Ruby and Sapphire. Emerald was even better though. I loved the water type pokemon there. I love the starters and their evolution lines are exceptional. Milotic is wonderful and so is the glorious wailord.

Edited April 13, 2014 by ChloboShoka