Fused King Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Phew, just caught up with this thread and it was a joy to read over breakfast. I think that people who come here and get slandered as 'anti-nintendo' are really not so at heart. They're simply concerned. Concerned about the company that has brought them so much joy in their childhood and they'd really hate it for NINTENDO to quietly dissapear in the gaming industry seeing as we all know they can do better. The fact that all of us, in this thread, are intensly discussing NINTENDO's position right now is a sign of sheer love for the company and nothing less. We all want them to do better and regain those glory days they had during our childhood, but of course there are variations in satisfaction when it comes to this. I've said this many times, but for me, on a personal gaming level, I had never really had to worry about droughts and whatnot. Having only bought NINTENDO systems in the last 10 years or so there has always been something to play for me, and this is no different with the WiiU and 3DS. I am, however, in line with @Happenstance, very interested in what happens when NINTENDO 'fails' with the WiiU and what lessons they will get out of this. As others have said, realising the true meaning of the Wii brand in the industry, getting to know your audience better, seeing the holes in your line-up and most notably seeing your relations with 3rd parties in a new light is what the WiiU might do to NINTENDO. Will this be enough for NINTENDO to drastically change the coming years? Who knows, but what is certain is that, sadly/luckily, NINTENDO is a business and when the money is down in this world, big companies feel the need to make a drastic change here and there in order to come back with a bang and showcase that new gadget everybody would like to experience (Wii). I wonder if NINTENDO will try this again, this kind of 'Wii tactic'. After they have realised that the Wii brand isn't working anymore to reel in the desirable sales, they either have to adjust their forecasts or they might just surprise with some batshit Virtual Reality/Handheld/Home Console/Vitality Senser/Toaster thing which sets fire to the charts again, sees a couple of interesting experiences and has us, once again, wonder where Captain Falcon is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zell Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 The impression I get is that the current culture at Nintendo is so deeply rooted that it will take many years for a significant culture shift to take place. This may sound cliched but many of the strategic decisions that happen at Nintendo are based on maintaining and preserving the Nintendo Brand in the eyes of both gamers and developers (with a bigger focus on the Japanese audience). Nintendo see themselves as and independent free spirit within the world of electronics: they do not follow anyone; they believe in "lateral thinking with withered technology"; they make games with the intention of being fun for everyone etc. These philosophies play a major role in how their consoles are designed, what types of games they choose to make, and how they market themselves. The board at Nintendo clearly think this is a strong brand and in many ways it is. The trouble is, I think that the higher-ups at Nintendo believe that they do not have a brand problem when they clearly do. Western audiences are shunning Nintendo consoles and third party developers are not supporting them. These relationships won't improve unless Nintendo make significant changes to their corporate strategy. And I feel that, if Nintendo keep sticking with the same people, culture and principles that have served them for the last 30 years then nothing with fundamentally change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 To the people saying Nintendo can't afford to make a high spec machine...Sony admitted if you buy a PS4 and a game then they're into profit. Whereas didn't people say Nintendo were losing money initially or something because of the gamepad? I don't buy that Nintendo can't afford to make an equally high spec machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 To the people saying Nintendo can't afford to make a high spec machine...Sony admitted if you buy a PS4 and a game then they're into profit. Whereas didn't people say Nintendo were losing money initially or something because of the gamepad? I don't buy that Nintendo can't afford to make an equally high spec machine. Would people really pay $399.99 for a Nintendo console, though? No, they wouldn't. As such, it'd have to be at a lower price like $299.99 where the big losses start to come into effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Nintendo already launched it at like 300. An extra 50 is no concern, especially if what you're getting is worth an extra 200 at least and it gets considered next gen And case in point - PS4 and Xbone sold, Wii U didn't. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzybee Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Nintendo already launched it at like 300. An extra 50 is no concern, especially if what you're getting is worth an extra 200 at least and it gets considered next gen And case in point - PS4 and Xbone sold, Wii U didn't. Go figure. But the wiiu DID sell et launch. Didn't it sell more than the xbone has? It's what happens in the next 6 months... Though I do agree with your point, I think gamers WILL pay a high price for a gaming console,and I think nintendos and would pay a higher price. Most Wii u owners bought the console at its highest price (at launch)... I think the fix is simple, release a steady flow of games and it'll get sales, just like the 3ds. I genuinely believe sales willbe decent but they need the games. Slowly improve the digital and online services and get ready for a the next generation of their inevitable join home console handheld super beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goron_3 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Gamers will buy a console at any price if they see value in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I don't think the Wii U sold as well at launch, at least not here in the UK, otherwise the PS4 wouldn't have outsold it in the UK in 2 days. Really though, what's the difference between 300 and 350, especially if you get so much more? Even the included Blu Ray drive alone would nearly cover that extra 50 quid. That just shows how badly priced the Wii U originally was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kav Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 As @Zechs Merquise has said all along, the price and marketing for the WiiU was always terrible. It's plain to see why it didn't sell. However, with it being the only place to play Nintendo games, it's a great console to have for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Gibbs Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 if nintendo came out at e3 with a console with the same spec as the PS4, if not slightly higher, same price,and had third party games on it...people would buy it, just look at the PS4 and how its managed to gain former 360 owners due to its potential Nintendo really need to sit down with some business advisers that are independant and get some advise, because their culture is stifling their own business, sure theyll survive but they aren't keeping up or growing in the console market...a market they effectively created/popularised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liger05 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Why the obsession with power draw? Who buys a console based on the power output. Unbelievably stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestneb Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Good for you I however like to see a bit deeper into the industry, I find it interesting. There isnt a focus on Nintendo, I talk about all the companies in various places, this just happens to be a Nintendo forum and the Wii U thread. hmm :/. So Nintendo are a company that no longer interest you per se as a gamer, but the interest you in the broader industry sense? well... good for you I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 hmm :/. So Nintendo are a company that no longer interest you per se as a gamer, but the interest you in the broader industry sense?well... good for you I guess. I don't see an issue with this. It's like saying just because I support Liverpool I shouldn't keep track of what the other teams are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 As long as what you are saying is valid and on topic I don't see why you need an interest in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 if nintendo came out at e3 with a console with the same spec as the PS4, if not slightly higher, same price,and had third party games on it...people would buy it, just look at the PS4 and how its managed to gain former 360 owners due to its potential Nintendo really need to sit down with some business advisers that are independant and get some advise, because their culture is stifling their own business, sure theyll survive but they aren't keeping up or growing in the console market...a market they effectively created/popularised They'd just say "Go on smartphones", since that's "where the money is" at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Why the obsession with power draw? Who buys a console based on the power output. Unbelievably stupid. Because they wanted the console to be as small, reliable/durable and quiet as possible. Just like the original Wii. They assume that their audience doesn't want huge, loud and gigantic bricks like the PS4 and Xbone (and to a lesser extent the PS3 and 360 before them, which were huge and loud in comparison to all past game consoles except for the original Xbox: Speaking of which, the PS3 slim also marked a turning point for the console's sales...). Edited January 11, 2014 by Dcubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 People weren't buying the Wii because it was small and quiet. Oh, Nintendo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Because they wanted the console to be as small, reliable/durable and quiet as possible. Just like the original Wii. They assume that their audience doesn't want huge, loud and gigantic bricks like the PS4 and Xbone (and to a lesser extent the PS3 and 360 before them, which were huge and loud in comparison to all past game consoles except for the original Xbox: Speaking of which, the PS3 slim also marked a turning point for the console's sales...). The PS4 isn't much bigger than the Wii U, although obviously the One is a different story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 There's also Nintendo wanting to be responsible, following the Fukushima quake. After the rolling blackouts, there is still somewhat of a cap on the amount of power that can be used. Typically at peak times, it's at around 80% of the country's actual capacity, so I guess they don't want to make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestneb Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 The Wii U launched at a very high price, not much less than the PS4. If they substituted the gamepad costs for higher specs, you would be left with a very powerful system for a great price. But back in that link about how bad it was developing, they were saying they loved the pad. Nintendo's mistake was looking at PS3/360 and believing that the diminishing returns from improved hardware would mean that the next consoles would move elsewhere in terms of competing. Thing is they didn't seem to consider where their competitors would turn. Microsoft, to be fair, did want that omnipotent omniscient omnipresent thing, but it creeped people out. But Sony were obviously going to push the power so... idk. I would like to know where Nintendo believed the competition was going to turn really. The power route wouldn't do irreparable damage to the company. Goron... this is surely a case of speculation. "might" not have done irreparable damage would be a better qualified argument, no? Extra power = greater outlay, both in R&D and unsold stock. There is a sweet point all the companies have to guess at, Nintendo appear to have made a bad guess, but the situation is complex, if Nintendo were in this position but the Wii U was twice as expensive for them to produce, they would be in twice as much do do. The 'Nintendo can't compete with MS and Sony' is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard and Iwata needs to be held responsible for that awful philosophy. And before people come in and say 'Oh but they need a gimmick to succeed...a unique selling point!'. Well Nintendo have that..and it's called software. They have the most historic and best exclusives of any gaming company, that's all they need. It's worth remembering just why Sony, a Japanese company, conquered the western gaming world. They listened to 3rd parties, the gaming audience and then built up exclusives. Nintendo already have the latter, they just need to act on the first two points. Surely the bottom line is profit. I understand a small loss on an annual basis to create a greater profit over say a decade makes sense, but going bust is never a good business move.If the losses Nintendo see they would need to incur to engage directly with MS and Sony would lead to too great a risk of them getting k.o'd, it makes sense for them to step aside for a while, surely? Also to those shocked they don't know about the PSN and X360. There weren't specific examples given, so its hard to know the scale of ignorance. I also don't imagine Sony or Microsoft would have sat down with Nintendo to tell them how to better compete. The only way they could learn is through 3rd parties, discussing ideas. It may be they were playing dumb to try and get this 3rd party to unwittingly disclose a few useful tidbits. Also seeing as they have never made games for those consoles (understandably) and they may not play extensively on the competitions consoles, it seems pretty reasonable, to me, for them not to be experts on the tech being used there. The basics, sure they should know, but I would expect a 3rd party developer, who has been fully briefed on AND has employed certain techniques, ought to be a lot more familiar. Particularly with the existence of NDA's etc, I imagine it would be tricky to get concrete examples of what exactly can be done and how it is acheived. idk, maybe I'm being naive here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drahkon Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 There's also Nintendo wanting to be responsible, following the Fukushima quake. After the rolling blackouts, there is still somewhat of a cap on the amount of power that can be used. Typically at peak times, it's at around 80% of the country's actual capacity, so I guess they don't want to make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 It's a valid point and reasoning and I believe many Japanese companies have tried to lower power consumption on their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestneb Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 The GamePad streamlines things that we take for granted. No more do we have to wait for cumbersome map menus to open, or inventory. It also provides various cool new things as seen in NintendoLand and of course Off TV Play, the original concept behind it, is very useful for families who don't have 15 TVs in every room. Nintendo shouldn't sacrifice their experimentation just to put out a console that's pretty much the same as others but with Nintendo software. Do we really want three near identical consoles? I love off tv play, even though I have my own tv, I enjoy sometimes having a simple game on while watching something a little less interesting. I don't think I could go back to tv screen compulsory now, I love the freedom that it gives, I'm no longer tethered to the screen. And second point totally. If Nintendo had released a console with comparable specs to the ps4/x1, what would be its usp? why buy it, not ps4/x1? ps4/x1 lovers would have bought those consoles. really I think the number of people who would be encouraged to buy the Wii U if it had improved specs would be pretty insignificant tbh. the change would have to be slow, and I think Nintendo would do better to look at gaps in their line up and buy up promising studios to fill those gaps as 2nd party developers. imo obviously. What they chose to do is their problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drahkon Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 It's a valid point and reasoning and I believe many Japanese companies have tried to lower power consumption on their products. Oh ok, I wasn't sure if you were serious. And just to make this clear: I wasn't trying to be funny or make fun of your comment. ok, I was trying to be funny :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestneb Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I don't see an issue with this. Nor do I. I'm glad to hear that we agree H-o-T. It's like saying just because I support Liverpool I shouldn't keep track of what the other teams are doing. Really? hmm. Why shouldn't you keep track of what the other teams are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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