Wii U General Discussion

[Wii]

Call of Duty: Ghosts - 0.33% on wii u - Roughly 20K sold on Wii U opening month

 

Assassin's Creed 4 - 1% on wii u- Roughly 6K sold on Wii U opening month

 

Batman: Arkham Origins - 1.8% on wii u - Roughly 11K sold on Wii U opening month

 

Now I would hope people at Nintendo HQ look at this and ask themselves 'why does our install base not buy major third party releases?

 

They should really look at this and try communicating with the wii u owners and ask the question.

 

Not saying it's the only reason but it's partly down to gimped versions of said 3rd party games and many others.

 

It is also true that a lot of Nintendo console owners don't look at 3rd party games. I was like that pretty much up until Gamecube bar a few exceptions on SNES and N64.

 

I'm pissed as hell with the 3rd party support and it's Nintendo's fault. It's worse for me as I'm exclusively Nintendo. Games like RE4 and Okami rival Nintendo's own games. Not to mention I need my sporting fixes of Tiger Woods and PES. I'm not going to get any of them this generation more than likely so it's worse than it's ever been.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Wii

[Fused King]

Could the reign of Mario finally be coming to an end?

[Serebii]

Could the reign of Mario finally be coming to an end?

Absolutely not.

[Pestneb]

The thing is though, Nintendo have little else other than Nintendo games on their console and you'd expect this to be the one game that lots of Wii U owners wanted to get hold of when it came out - a must have system seller, somewhat the GTA of the console. Except it wasn't, and here at least was at leaat i initially bested in sales by Knack.

 

Yes, it went on to sell reasonably, but it sure doesn't help the dev perception that neither the console nor its games are faring well.

 

knack: less than 500k

SM3DW: more than 1.5m

 

It perhaps shows Wii U owners are more patient and appreciate that games aren't like apples, they don't rot if you leave them too long.

The UK is about the worst "big" market for the Wii U.

 

I would hope game devs were a bit more professional than that. The guys making decisions on what platforms to develop for are likely to look at fact and figures rather than hyperbole. A dev will be more interested in the historical fact that

1) consoles tend to sell in the region of 10 games. (anecdotally this may vary greatly - I know its false of me, I have a far higher attach rate, but its the averages they are interested in)

2) the top ten games for a Nintendo console tend to consist of Nintendo games.

as an example, the GC's top ten:

 

1 Super Smash Bros. Melee Nintendo 33%

2 Mario Kart: Double Dash!! Nintendo 33%

3 Super Mario Sunshine Nintendo 30%

4 The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker Nintendo 25%

5 Luigi's Mansion Nintendo 25%

6 Animal Crossing Nintendo 15%

7 Metroid Prime Nintendo 15%

8 Sonic Adventure 2 Battle Sega 15%

9 Pokémon Colosseum Nintendo 10%

10 Mario Party 4 Nintendo 10%

 

statistically an average collection could be assumed to own two of these games.

 

In an earlier I implied (or did I state?)that devs were "scared" of Nintendo. Perhaps this was a poor choice of throw away words, particularly given the forum it was posted on, but it is a pretty compelling argument, looking at the above. Software developer are fighting, mainly, to be in one of those ten games, one of the games most owners of that platform own. the GC is pretty representative of Nintendo platforms - possibly the snes being the most generous to 3rd party offerings.

Both xbox and ps are far more friendly - particularly to take two and activision, and in ps3's case, EA.

 

Rather than scared/fear, intimidated is perhaps a closer word. seeing a wall of "Nintendo" in the top ten sellers is hardly encouraging. Looking at Sony and Microsoft, they each had 1 top ten seller.

Take two only release a handful of titles, Activision seem to be the "Nintendo" of PS and xbox land, with their name plastered somewhat intimidatingly across the top sellers. So why are PS3 and XBOX showing more potential? well, partially because the dominant publisher focuses on shooters. That leaves plenty of space to be the number one racer etc.

 

look at Nintendo.

FPS - Metroid.

racer- Mario kart/F-zero

adventure - zelda

platformer - dk, mario

fighter - smash bros

 

thats just a starter. I'm not going to compare cod to metroid prime, but that broad area is crowded. Someone suggested Nintendo ought to move into other genres. I think the problem is they already cover too much.

someone plays a platformer. They like it. They fancy a racer. Oh, look, that's kinda racing, I liked Nintendo's platformer, I wonder what their racer is like....

 

So Nintendo's strong brandis perhaps its weakness?

Only Nintendo owners who own other consoles are knowledgable enough to research and find those occassional gems? idk.

[Serebii]

Not saying it's the only reason but it's partly down to gimped versions of said 3rd party games and many others.

 

It is also true that a lot of Nintendo console owners don't look at 3rd party games. I was like that pretty much up until Gamecube bar a few exceptions on SNES and N64.

 

I'm pissed as hell with the 3rd party support and it's Nintendo's fault. It's worse for me as I'm exclusively Nintendo. Games like RE4 and Okami rival Nintendo's own games. Not to mention I need my sporting fixes of Tiger Woods and PES. I'm not going to get any of them this generation more than likely so it's worse than it's ever been.

That is a major factor. I know of a few people who were going to get Assassin's Creed 4 on Wii U, but aren't because no DLC (they like the story). Same deal with Batman and its lack of the multiplayer.

 

I'm not saying that it'd have made the games sell brilliantly with it, but it's definitely a factor that needs to be considered.

[Retro_Link]

Well, I can explain the latter.

 

Each Virtual Console game is run on its own emulator which is fine tuned so the game works perfectly on the hardware.

 

As such, for a game to be on the Wii U, it has to be recoded with the emulator recoded so they have to do some work to do it and I guess they still want to be paid for the work so it's not just a drain in their financials.

 

I agree it shouldn't exist and that Virtual Console games should be cheaper (just by like £1...let's not get ridiculous and turn into the iOS argument "lolz it should be 99p"), but I can see why it does exist.

It's cringeworthy to think that within a year or two of it's launch the PS4 will have the vast majority of the PS1/PS2/PS3 backcatalogue available to it via Playstation Now, where as 1 year into the Wii U life and there's literally just the same old same old NES and SNES games on there (and not even that yet, ALttP only just got there) plus a couple of nice additions like Earthbound.

 

It even seemed like the Wii got it's virtual console built up quicker than this... maybe we were just all to busy playing Wii Sports to notice, but Nintendo really should have been on the ball out of the gate with the Wii U. We should be anticipating Gamecube games now, let alone not even having one N64 game!

Edited January 8, 2014 by Retro_Link

[Sheikah]

knack: less than 500k

SM3DW: more than 1.5m

 

It perhaps shows Wii U owners are more patient and appreciate that games aren't like apples, they don't rot if you leave them too long.

The UK is about the worst "big" market for the Wii U.

 

It's a nice sentiment but in practice it does not reflect well. Any company wants their games to chart highly upon release, and on top of that, if the best game on the system shifts somewhat mediocre numbers upon release then it sends a pretty bad message. If people are buying the system for mostly Nintendo games and people aren't exactly pushing and shoving to get the best one then third parties aren't going to be filled with confidence about how their games would fare.

 

A few other things to bear in mind - Knack is very poor and SMW is excellent, and that SMW got a rather weighty discount shortly after its release over here (£30 or so, although not sure if it was temporary). Most PS4 games remain around £50.

[Pestneb]

It's cringeworthy to think that within a year or two of it's launch the PS4 will have the vast majority of the PS1/PS2/PS3 backcatalogue available to it via Playstation Now, where as 1 year into the Wii U life and there's literally just the same old same old NES and SNES games on there (and not even that yet, ALttP only just got there) plus a couple of nice additions like Earthbound.

 

It even seemed like the Wii got it's virtual console built up quicker than this... maybe we were just all to busy playing Wii Sports to notice, but Nintendo really should have been on the ball out of the gate with the Wii U. We should be anticipating Gamecube games now, let alone not even having one N64 games!

 

Yeah, I have to say, I was pretty dissappointed with the vc.. kinda looked around and figured I must be missing something.

As for the emulator thing... thats uber dumb. I had a PC over a decade ago that could run a snes emulator. you could map all the inputs, output was perfect, no issues. They were able to illegitimately make a hardware emulator AND obtain rom files. Why can't Nintendo do the same? I presume it would reduce download size if I downloaded essentially 1 snes emulator + 5 roms, than 5 snes emulators and 5 roms????

and I heard the wii U is 100% capable of running gc games natively, just has problems on the disc front. So what excuse is there for delaying GC games?

Perhaps Nintendo are waiting for a drought period to announce it. I would however say gc games before n64 games is likely as not.

[Sheikah]

I know, I pointed that out to Serebii before that SNES/NES emulation at least has been totally perfected. They aren't releasing any more SNES or NES games - perfect emulation has long since been achieved. I'm pretty sure he knows that Nintendo elves aren't tinkering away at each title hence the staggered release, but he'll keep telling us if anyway. :p

 

If they really wanted they could have all their SNES and NES games up in less than a month.

[Wii]

Yeah, I have to say, I was pretty dissappointed with the vc.. kinda looked around and figured I must be missing something.

As for the emulator thing... thats uber dumb. I had a PC over a decade ago that could run a snes emulator. you could map all the inputs, output was perfect, no issues. They were able to illegitimately make a hardware emulator AND obtain rom files. Why can't Nintendo do the same? I presume it would reduce download size if I downloaded essentially 1 snes emulator + 5 roms, than 5 snes emulators and 5 roms????

and I heard the wii U is 100% capable of running gc games natively, just has problems on the disc front. So what excuse is there for delaying GC games?

Perhaps Nintendo are waiting for a drought period to announce it. I would however say gc games before n64 games is likely as not.

 

This. It can't be that hard to make an emulator. If pirates can do it then surely the Nintendo the makers of all these consoles can do likewise and having an emulator makes no sense to me.

 

We have another drought at the minute so now would be a good time to do this and after a year I expect better at this point.

[liger05]

Knack was bundled which explains many of its sales.

[Aneres11]

N-Europe Nintendo thread...

 

 

[Sheikah]

This. It can't be that hard to make an emulator. If pirates can do it then surely the Nintendo the makers of all these consoles can do likewise and having an emulator makes no sense to me.

 

We have another drought at the minute so now would be a good time to do this and after a year I expect better at this point.

 

Yup, the Wii Homebrew channel let you load many functional emulators all of which ran the games flawlessly. SNES9X for instance was superb. With a good emulator then there's really nothing to fine tune.

 

Knack was bundled which explains many of its sales.

 

But again, SM3DW wasn't something people were rushing out to buy the Wii U for, nor were many existing Wii U owners eager to get it. It wasn't a good message.

[Ashley]

N-Europe Nintendo thread...

 

 

 

I think being disappointed in what Nintendo is doing with the VC is reasonable.

 

We all just want to play Beetle Adventure Racing god damn it!

[liger05]

But again, SM3DW wasn't something people were rushing out to buy the Wii U for, nor were many existing Wii U owners eager to get it. It wasn't a good message.

 

No doubt thats why I mention active install base. SM3DW is near 500k in Japan which good considering the small install base. In the west the game didnt sell great at launch like many other wii u titles and i tend to think people got so pissed off with the drought that any excitement they had for the console has gone and its been packed way or they have sold/traded it in.

[Pestneb]

I think being disappointed in what Nintendo is doing with the VC is reasonable.

 

tbh I don't mind the library size, more the library quality. I don't buy titles multiple times over.

Nes wish list=

duck hunt

tmht 2

galaxy 5000

 

snes=

mario kart

top gear (not entirely sure on the name.. but a fairly fun racer.. I'd know it if I saw it!)

starwing

tmht in time

 

N64=

smash bros

rogue squadron

blast corps

 

GC

Paper Mario

 

 

so actually vc wouldn't really keep me occupied all that long after all

[Kav]

@Pestneb the Top Gear game was amazing! Awesome music in it too!

[Pestneb]

@Pestneb the Top Gear game was amazing! Awesome music in it too!

tbh I can't remember the music. But if it turns up on the vc, I'll have it!

 

In defence of the slowness, with nes and snes titles there can be licensing complications, companies gone bust so rights are transferred etc etc.

So that can slow down 3rd party titles at least... and maybe they want to give the less popular/appealing titles a chance to be sold.

 

 

mm. I hope releases aren't tied to numbers of wii Us sold though :/

N64 games at 25 mill. GC at 50

and whats up with Tvii???

 

 

to clarify - I am loving my wii U at the moment - too much in fact. Perhaps a temporary drought will be good for me!!

[Josh64]

Well, I can explain the latter.

 

Each Virtual Console game is run on its own emulator which is fine tuned so the game works perfectly on the hardware.

 

As such, for a game to be on the Wii U, it has to be recoded with the emulator recoded so they have to do some work to do it and I guess they still want to be paid for the work so it's not just a drain in their financials.

 

I agree it shouldn't exist and that Virtual Console games should be cheaper (just by like £1...let's not get ridiculous and turn into the iOS argument "lolz it should be 99p"), but I can see why it does exist.

 

I don't know much (or really anything :P) about the development side of things, so thanks for giving some insight into why they charge the extra, I suppose it does actually make sense, but I feel as though, for being a long-term supporter, they should offer it for free anyway. It's not as though they'd be making no money, they'd still be making money from the new Wii U purchases.

[Serebii]

I don't know much (or really anything :P) about the development side of things, so thanks for giving some insight into why they charge the extra, I suppose it does actually make sense, but I feel as though, for being a long-term supporter, they should offer it for free anyway. It's not as though they'd be making no money, they'd still be making money from the new Wii U purchases.

What Nintendo should do is either lower the price of Virtual Console games by £1/£1.50, or offer an alternative (so you can do both)...a subscription akin to PS+ which gives you access to all Virtual Console games.

 

Playstation Now isn't much of a better alternative seeing as, from what I read, each title will have a rental fee so you'll have to continue paying that for each game rather than a single price.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Serebii

[Dcubed]

Here's something nice and cheery; a new interview with Next Level Games!

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/205707/Next_Level_Games_Working_with_Nintendo_making_a_studio_great_for_developers.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GamasutraNews+%28Gamasutra+News%29

 

A few choice quotes...

 

KY: It's funny. I said this on one of the previous interviews... People always talk about Nintendo as "Nintendo," this one big great entity. From a production standpoint, they've got tons of teams. And just like any other company out there that has multiple teams, they all actually can run very differently.

 

So the experience on this last project was very different than the previous three that I worked on, because the group, the creative and production group at Nintendo that we worked with was different than the previous three. So it was markedly different. The standard things that you have to deal with are cultural differences, way of working -- you know, the standard type of things. So it's just about getting in a good dance step with them.

 

**

 

Jason Carr: Yeah. When we first started the company, about 10 years ago, we worked on NHL Hitz for Midway, and it was a very arcadey kind of hockey game. Canadians don't mind working on hockey games, it's kind of in our blood.

 

All the stuff that we really focused on was very gameplay-centric; it wasn't massive RPG storytelling and all that. It was really what feels good in your hand, you know what I mean? Nintendo has a very similar approach. So definitely we like to make the same sort of games, so that's a good fit.

 

***

 

KY: When we work with them, it is strictly about the game, throughout the entire process. Obviously, on the production side, we have to talk about that. But the focus, when you're talking about the game is driven by the quality of the game, and what is cool, and what feels good, not how much money is this going to cost or how long is it going to take.

 

JC: We did get bigger for a while. We got up to four teams. We were about 115, 120 people. We spread ourselves way too thin. We had heard from other developer friends, "You need to have at least three teams -- that's the magic number, blah blah, blah," just from a financial perspective.

 

JC: Totally. All that sort of stuff. We just ended up making shitty games, really. We spread ourselves way too thin. It wasn't fun. I didn't know everyone's name anymore. We lost a little bit of that family kind of culture feel, so it wasn't great for us. Paring back down to a two team company... one and a half, whatever... 70 people, depends on the game, right? For some games these days, that's half of a company.

 

I have no real interest in growing. If we did grow it would be small and because we're working on products that need more people. And in a lot of cases, there's so much talent that's up in Vancouver we hire contract people in, and we can grow that way as well.

 

JC: We have worked with a lot of other companies before, and we're super happy with our relationship with Nintendo. There's no reason to look anywhere else. They keep giving us better and better IP to work with, and as long as we do our job and make good games for them there's no reason for us to venture out.

 

Because we're still a small shop. We're under 70 people. We like that size. For us, we're like, why would you want to go and talk with these other guys? What's it doing for your business? The guys in the company are just really, really proud of the company and proud of the games they work on.

 

And for a lot of guys, when they come to work, they're fresh, they're immersed in it, they're excited by it. They want to come to work -- they're not dragged in. It's worked out really, really well. And it's the kind of place where people want to stay -- not all the time, but when they're there, they're happy.

 

Again, another Miyamoto-san quote, but he always asks us, "Is the team having fun? Are they having fun making the game?" It's really important that the team's enjoying themselves there, because they feel -- and I agree -- that if you're miserable it'll follow suit in your job. How are you supposed to make an engaging Nintendo game that's actually fun? We don't do the gimmicky stuff that you hear a lot.

 

JC: Yeah. And don't get me wrong. We have the odd late night here and there, and finally, it's still video games. [but] we're not set up to incent people just to stay and demand long hours.

 

KY: It's over the long term, what we've built. When I come into the company, the reason I was brought in was more about that, to help establish. They had a vision of the culture, what the culture was that they wanted the company to be about. I think we take care of people, more so.

 

It's a good read

[Retro_Link]

We all just want to play Beetle Adventure Racing god damn it!

I LOVED that game!!

 

Only second on the N64 to Diddy Kong Racing!

[drahkon]

Is there any reason why Nintendo is not able/does not want to bring all SNES games (let's just forget N64 and GC for the sake of simplicity) to VC - and by VC I mean: available for Wii, Wii U and 3DS?

 

Would it be too expensive? Would it be not profitable?

 

This isn't meant to be provocative :p I seriously don't understand what's keeping Nintendo from making that move.

[Hero-of-Time]

Next Level Games output for Nintendo has been outstanding. Mario Strikers, Luigi's Mansion 2 and finally, my personal favourite, the Punch-Out reboot on the Wii.

 

I'm quite excited/eager to see what is next for these guys.

 

Any word on what Monster Games are doing at the moment?

[Retro_Link]

Next Level Games output for Nintendo has been outstanding. Mario Strikers, Luigi's Mansion 2 and finally, my personal favourite, the Punch-Out reboot on the Wii.

 

I'm quite excited/eager to see what is next for these guys.

 

Any word on what Monster Games are doing at the moment?

It's true what they said they've been given bigger and bigger franchises by Nintendo an it's exciting to think what they've been given next. You'd have to think it'll be a Wii U project