MoogleViper Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 A 20-year-old Greek footballer has been banned for life from playing for his national team after a controversial goal celebration in which he appeared to give a Nazi salute. The player says he hadn't understood the meaning of the gesture - but is it possible, in 2013, for a European to be so poorly informed? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21829682 Whether or not he knew of the meaning, should he be banned? Personally I think absolutely not. I think anybody should have the right to hold any opinion they like, as long as they aren't directly harming anyone. It's funny how they're banning him for a fascist salute, yet by doing so, they're little short of political oppression themselves. When does it become totalitarianism? Who's to say what political opinions are correct, or should be allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 People have a right to hold any opinions they like, but likewise, employers have a right to expect a certain conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 People have a right to hold any opinions they like, but likewise, employers have a right to expect a certain conduct. That's true, but I don't really see the national team as an employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I don't really know how football works. I assume the logic is that he's representing them when he's playing football or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Greek people shouldn't be allowed free speech. /Different topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Did he do it in Greece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Did he do it in Greece? Yeah in Athens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I'd understand it in Germany where it's illegal but in Greece it's a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 The moment this (supposedly) innocent kid's arm went erect, he was fucked. Just outta curosity, did the referee respond to this celebration in any way? Can they send you off for rude gestures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 If what you say with your free speech is despicable enough, society will punish you as it sees fit. I was going to say something about how that punishment shouldn't be enforced by any football federation because I thought he had been banned from playing the sport in Greece entirely, but then I reread the article. In this case, sure, banning the player from that one organization is the sort of social punishment I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kav Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think it's the correct decision to ban him. He could be inciting racism which in turn could hurt someone. Free speech is dangerous. How would people feel if someone said "I'd never do it myself but I find sexual assault on children hilarious"..? Just a bit wrong isn't it, probably shouldn't be said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I don't think this is a free speech issue, it's more of a freedom of expression thing, as he didn't actually say anything. Should you be free to express yourself all the time? No, absolutely not. You may hold your opinion, and hold it rightly, but there are times when you just should keep your mouth shut. For example: 1 Walking into Harlem and shouting "FUCKING NIGGERS EVERYWHERE" 2 Going to Jerusalem and saying "Look, Jews are responsible for so many of the world's ills" 3 Sitting in an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and muttering "Jesus Christ, you guys need to lighten up, have a drink or something" Freedom of speech and freedom of expression are nice, but there are a few limits to them. Be sensible. One of the most important things to know about your "rights" is when to appropriately exercise them. Back to this specific case, I think the reaction was over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Zaha (a footballer who plays for Crystal Palace) was recently banned for one or two games for making a naughty gesture (of the one fingered kind) at fans. As far as i know, naughty gestures aren't illegal, but he was still banned for it. I think Magnus is right, if he did it (the Naziness) in the street, it wouldn't be illegal, but whomever his employers are have a right to fire him/ban him if he does it while at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zechs Merquise Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Free speech and freedom of expression is of the highest importance. It's his right to express himself in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Luckily for him, he'll have more time for Nazi salutes now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Free speech and freedom of expression is of the highest importance. It's his right to express himself in that way. And the person in charge of the team has the right to express his disgust by throwing him off the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Free speech and freedom of expression is of the highest importance. It's his right to express himself in that way. He'll have a clause in his contract (like most of us at work) that will say his conduct has to be in-line with the clubs policy. If I walked around work nazi saluting I'd expect punishment or the sack, so should he. I can't actually believe people are advocating nazi salutes in football.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Banning him for life seems quite extreme...especially if he had no idea of the salute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zechs Merquise Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 And the person in charge of the team has the right to express his disgust by throwing him off the team. So what you are saying is that someone deserves to be sacked because of their opinion? Now before you say - 'well his opinion is awful', just remove your personal moral compass from the equation. How would you feel if you expressed an opinion and were sacked for it? Once you set a precedent that it is OK to punish people for their opinion you are moving down a dangerous road which can have far reaching implications on every one. Finally please don't say that 'Nazis killed people so it's wrong for people to hold those opinion'. There are many people that espouse the opinions of Lenin, Stalin and Mao who all killed far more people than the Nazis did. Are you going to punish them too for their opinions? What about those who follow literal interpretations of religion? Are they in line for punishment for expressing their opinions? The educated human acknowledges there are lots of different viewpoints in the world, and that although we may all have different views, it is everyone's right to hold their view and express it in a reasonable manner. To quote Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hahaha. I assume this is a brilliant attempt at showing that while it's okay to hold stupid opinions, maybe sometimes you shouldn't voice them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Now before you say - 'well his opinion is awful', just remove your personal moral compass from the equation. How would you feel if you expressed an opinion and were sacked for it? It depends on the opinion. For example, if I told a customer that, in my opinion, a competitor was better and they should go with them, then I would expect to be sacked for that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Peeps Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 It's not wrong for him to hold that opinion - if he does. It's wrong for him to express it while representing his team/country or whatever it was. As people have pointed out, he's free to do what he wants but not when he's at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 So what you are saying is that someone deserves to be sacked because of their opinion? Now before you say - 'well his opinion is awful', just remove your personal moral compass from the equation. How would you feel if you expressed an opinion and were sacked for it? Once you set a precedent that it is OK to punish people for their opinion you are moving down a dangerous road which can have far reaching implications on every one. Finally please don't say that 'Nazis killed people so it's wrong for people to hold those opinion'. There are many people that espouse the opinions of Lenin, Stalin and Mao who all killed far more people than the Nazis did. Are you going to punish them too for their opinions? What about those who follow literal interpretations of religion? Are they in line for punishment for expressing their opinions? The educated human acknowledges there are lots of different viewpoints in the world, and that although we may all have different views, it is everyone's right to hold their view and express it in a reasonable manner. To quote Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." I was always rankled by this at 6th form, people used to walk around with hammer and sickle logo jumpers and tshirts, without seemingly realising what an awful man Stalin was. If I had turned up with a swastika on my arm or chest, I would have been expelled! Not that I would of mind you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 So what you are saying is that someone deserves to be sacked because of their opinion? Now before you say - 'well his opinion is awful', just remove your personal moral compass from the equation. How would you feel if you expressed an opinion and were sacked for it? Once you set a precedent that it is OK to punish people for their opinion you are moving down a dangerous road which can have far reaching implications on every one. Finally please don't say that 'Nazis killed people so it's wrong for people to hold those opinion'. There are many people that espouse the opinions of Lenin, Stalin and Mao who all killed far more people than the Nazis did. Are you going to punish them too for their opinions? What about those who follow literal interpretations of religion? Are they in line for punishment for expressing their opinions? The educated human acknowledges there are lots of different viewpoints in the world, and that although we may all have different views, it is everyone's right to hold their view and express it in a reasonable manner. To quote Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Congratulations for missing the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think people are missing the fact that it wasn't the government who issued the ban. The government isn't doing shit to hold this man down. His employers fired him, simple as that. And honestly, they have the right to do that. People have much as a right to be offended as they have to offend. This is what I mean by "society will judge your views". So yes, he has the right to Free Speech and he employed it in a rather stupid way. Much like I would employ my right to buy anything, if I bought Mentos and Coke to eat at once. Nobody's stopping me from doing it, it's just that actions have natural consequences. All of that said, I have to agree with Ville: a lifetime ban really is a too much for this idiot. To make matters worse, players have gotten away with much worse (like assaulting someone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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