Xbox One Console Discussion

[Dcubed]

Here's the link... http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/main

 

Here are our platform policies and capabilities for game licensing – all of which will be made available when Xbox One launches later this year:

 

Buy the way you want—disc or digital—on the same day: You’ll be able to buy disc-based games at traditional retailers or online through Xbox Live, on day of release. Discs will continue to be a great way to install your games quickly.

 

Access your entire games library from any Xbox One—no discs required: After signing in and installing, you can play any of your games from any Xbox One because a digital copy of your game is stored on your console and in the cloud. So, for example, while you are logged in at your friend’s house, you can play your games.

 

Share access to your games with everyone inside your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you. (Oh gee, how fucking thoughtful of you MS!)

 

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

 

Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

 

Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

 

In our role as a game publisher, Microsoft Studios will enable you to give your games to friends or trade in your Xbox One games at participating retailers. Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends. Loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners.

 

As we move into this new generation of games and entertainment, from time to time, Microsoft may change its policies, terms, products and services to reflect modifications and improvements to our services, feedback from customers and our business partners or changes in our business priorities and business models or for other reasons. We may also cease to offer certain services or products for similar reasons.

 

In the months ahead, we will continue to listen to your feedback as we meet with our partners in the ecosystem to bring additional detail about our policies.

 

We are excited about this new generation of games and entertainment and look forward to sharing more news with our fans.

 

So in short, no private selling, no renting, no borrowing, but you can, at the discretion of specific publishers, trade in your game at "participating retailers" and with a friend on your friends list (who has been on there for at least 30 days) - but only once, where access is removed from your account forever as a result; oh and the default is set to not allow trading of any kind whatsoever (the publisher has to "opt-in" to the scheme...); oh and the publishers take a cut of the retailer's trade-in value (so expect used game prices to rise and trade-in value to plummet)

 

Also the 24 hour reconnection requirement is true (with it only allowing 1 hour of offline access on any console other than the one that was used to purchase/authenticate the game originally), meaning that your entire Xbone collection will be turned into useless coasters as soon as they shut down the servers.

 

So yeah... it's more or less exactly as we feared. Go fuck yourself MS (and fuck you anyone who buys this anti-consumer/book burning POS, YOU are the problem!)

Edited June 6, 2013 by Dcubed

[Daft]

Personally I'm less bothered about the used game thing and more bothered about the online thang.

[Rowan]

It does sound like the publishers have pressured Microsoft to implement the selling games restrictions as the article seems to go out of its way to explain that Microsoft won't be receiving any money from trade ins. Does not bode well for PS4.

[Dcubed]

Personally I'm less bothered about the used game thing and more bothered about the online thang.

 

Yup, game preservation in general is fucked as a result of this. Want to play your favourite Xbone game 10 years from now? Nope, the servers are gone and thus the game does not exist anymore, you're screwed.

 

Pirates and hackers will have a field day with this console. We can only hope that they are able to preserve the games released for the hardware and can save them from MS' tyrannical ticking time bomb cloud...

[Cube]

So, what they're essentially saying is that the XBone is not powerful enough to properly play XBone games.

[bryanee]

 

I aint buying thiiiiiis. For the love of god don't let me down Sony.

[Dcubed]

 

Best part about this is that it doesn't even mention the ramifications of what will happen when the servers go down

[Diageo]

Yeah. This is the least appealing console I've seen to date.

[Nolan]

Absolute shit.

 

Not much different than steam (honestly a couple benefits?) other than Steam require 30 days (so I learned in this thread haha) regardless of the PC. Well hell....almost entirely different I guess.

 

TO BE FAIR they absolutely could possibly patch in that the console/games no longer need authentication 10 years down the line, or even transfer the authentication to the next console iteration....IF they want to...IF they thought ahead unlike the Xbox which can't go online anymore. Hell...I wonder how long 360's can go online for. Sure the XBL account is carried over, but it was carried over before too.

 

I'm just disgusted by the idea of requiring online so often. Yes I have it constantly, but that doesn't mean I can always afford it. And there are still plenty without either Highspeed Access, or just plain access. Maybe it's not available. Maybe they can't afford it. And it's shit. And yes Steam is like that at the very least. Authenticate, update, and play. But people without internet damnwell stayed away from steam/PC gaming and played Consoles for that reason. I'm rambling dammit...I'm sorry but whatever.

[Shorty]

I agree with all the above, if all this stuff is true then I ain't buying one, unless they have some kind of barely imaginable ace up their sleeve for E3... and it would have to be like... "games are £20 and here's Perfect Dark 2, a Banjo Kazooie Platformer and Halo 5 on launch day and XBL Gold customers will start getting free games a la PS+". I'm not suggesting that's remotely possible, just that's what it would take to balance all the shit.

 

Best part about this is that it doesn't even mention the ramifications of what will happen when the servers go down

You think 300,000 servers will go down at once?

[Serebii]

You think 300,000 servers will go down at once?

 

Knowing Microsoft, all 300,000 will be plugged in through a single multiport plug on the wall...not even surge protected :p

 

Seriously though, they selling games to friends bit is shit. I don't get how a company can screw up this badly

[Daft]

I wonder how many of those 300,000 servers are virtual.

[MindFreak]

That Nintendo allows used games must be the reason that EA has stopped supporting the Wii U. Also, the PS4 will have some DRM not totally unlike XBOne, that's for sure.

 

I think it's bad that I can't buy games cheaply and easily in future but then I'll just buy fewer games. The online once every 24 hours is no problem to me but it seems a bit harsh. I really like the idea that you can play you games on any Xbone-console you are logged on to even without the discs. That is pure genious.

[James]

 

Seriously though, they selling games to friends bit is shit. I don't get how a company can screw up this badly

 

Didn't the MS statement just say friends can play your games? Or has something gone way over my head.

[Happenstance]

As I expected its sounds like a slightly crappier version of Steam. I expect Sony to announce similar stuff at E3. I'm still not getting an Xbox One but the DRM stuff was never going to be the reason why as its just something I think we'll have to live with from now on. The only thing that worries me I guess is the lack of an offline mode and the 24 hour limit before online checks which just seems too short if you have a problem with your connection.

[Serebii]

Didn't the MS statement just say friends can play your games? Or has something gone way over my head.

It's complicated.

 

You can sell a friend your game so they can play it. They have to have been on your friend list for a month and it's one way, you can never get that game back. They then cannot sell the game on themselves.

 

What you read is that you can have up to 10 people on your Xbox One console and content can be shared there. As such, if the person on your console is playing on another, they can play a game from your console. However, not at the same time as you

[Hero-of-Time]

Eurogamer has an opinion piece on the whole thing.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile

 

Almost exactly a year ago, at the end of an E3 press conference in which Microsoft heralded fitness software, Kinect, Internet Explorer, Bing and dying action games as the future of entertainment, I wrote that anyone who has paid attention to Microsoft's business over the years should not be surprised by its apparent lack of self-awareness.

 

"If we are entertained by what Microsoft chooses to do for its own gain," I suggested, "then that is simply a happy coincidence."

 

Guess what? The coincidence is over.

 

The fact that Microsoft's policies governing game ownership, sharing and privacy are not surprising does not make them any less devastating to consumer rights, should they be formally adopted and become a standard. They sacrifice our freedom to own and trade games for no other reason than corporate self-interest.

 

To save you skimming large tracts of condescending prose about how much Microsoft loves and respects you as a human wallet, here is a summary:

 

You do not own the games you buy. You license them.

 

Discs are only used to install and then license games and do not imply ownership.

 

People can play games installed on your console whether you're logged in or not.

 

10 people can be authorised to play these games on a different Xbox One via the cloud, but not at the same time, similar to iTunes authorised devices.

 

Publishers decide whether you can trade in your games and may charge for this.

 

Publishers decide whether you can give a game you own to someone for free, and this only works if they have been on your friends list for 30 days.

 

Your account allows you to play the games you license on any console.

 

Your Xbox One must connect to the internet every 24 hours to keep playing games.

 

When playing on another Xbox One with your account, this is reduced to one hour.

 

Live TV, Blu-ray and DVD movies are exempt from these internet requirements.

 

Loaning and renting games will not be possible at launch, but Microsoft is "exploring the possibilities".

 

Microsoft may change these policies or discontinue them at any point.

 

There is also a promise that Microsoft Studios games will all allow you to trade them in and give them away for free, bringing a whole new emphasis to the expression, "It's the least we could do!"

 

The only positive thing in the whole document is confirmation that you can turn off Kinect and its data will never be uploaded without your permission. Let us all applaud Microsoft's "OK, fine!" decision not to intrude on our privacy.

 

The suggestion that these changes to game ownership have been taken to combat piracy or limit the damage that used game sales do to the primary market do not stand up to much scrutiny - at our most charitable, we can say that the data is merely inconclusive, but analysis of other industries that have dealt with these issues for much longer is pretty clear that the overall benefits at least balance out the risks of allowing piracy and used markets to flourish.

 

The more likely reason for this unprecedented new attitude to console game ownership and sharing is that Microsoft wants to turn its game business into the equivalent of iTunes. The signs are already there in the merger of Xbox, Windows and Windows Phone app stores and the decision to run Xbox games off a Virtual Machine 'game OS' within Xbox One, which could easily be included in new hardware derived from the same architectural roadmap.

 

This is a neat business way of getting everything to line up. It is done in service to Microsoft's corporate objectives. It is not even done with any particular malice towards you and I. Nevertheless, it signals the most significant divergence to date of Microsoft's goals for the Xbox business from our own. It also puts an unspecified expiry date on every Xbox One game ever made and gives you no control over it. Yes, at a point in time where consoles are becoming less relevant, Microsoft's solution is to make them less permanent.

 

The addition of cloud gaming functions, the avoidance of DVD or Blu-ray disc access times, the convenience of global access - these are the rewards we are being offered for our complicity in Microsoft's decision to eradicate the concept of console game ownership. They are not good enough and very little ever will be.

 

Digital marketplaces like Netflix, iTunes and the present Xbox Live are a good thing, but they should be additive. They allow us to form a different kind of relationship with art - a more convenient, expansive and often cheaper one that includes better tools for exploration beyond the borders of our current interest. We should and I do celebrate these things. But a critical reason that I accept them is that I still have the option to own an untouchable physical copy of the things I find there as well.

 

You can say this is no worse than what Steam does, you can say that it is no worse than what a lot of 'content' companies do, and those statements are true, but they do not engage with the most important detail of this news, which is what we are being told to give up in exchange for this new arrangement: the opportunity to form tangible, lasting relationships with art that matters to us. If you never had that, then why would you miss it? But we do. And soon we won't.

 

Collectors will still be able to buy Xbox One games on disc, of course, and we may line them up happily on our shelves so that our friends and families can admire our dedication and taste forever more. But under Microsoft's new rules, we are no longer building a collection of games - we are building a collection of loans that may be recalled from us at any time, leaving us with nothing but distant memories. And that loss will be simple, instant and complete.

[Happenstance]

Giant Bomb guys talking about it

 

[James]

It's complicated.

 

You can sell a friend your game so they can play it. They have to have been on your friend list for a month and it's one way, you can never get that game back. They then cannot sell the game on themselves.

 

What you read is that you can have up to 10 people on your Xbox One console and content can be shared there. As such, if the person on your console is playing on another, they can play a game from your console. However, not at the same time as you

 

Fair enough, the whole microsoft statement released makes zero sense to me it's as bad as it was when they talked about it in there XBone reveal.

[Cube]

One thing I've been thinking about: The EU are usually great when it comes to consumer protection. I can see them having a big problem with this system - especially the "approved retailers" part of it.

[Serebii]

The thing that worries me is how silent Sony are about this. You'd think they'd be pushing it as a marketing ploy for the PS4...but their silence makes me think they essentially have the same thing

[Shorty]

The big danger is millions will still buy this console because they won't even know about this stuff. The backlash from that will be bad, but the sales figures might be enough to make people, inside and outside of Microsoft, think "hey, this model works".

As we move into this new generation of games and entertainment, from time to time, Microsoft may change its policies, terms, products and services to reflect modifications and improvements to our services, feedback from customers and our business partners or changes in our business priorities and business models or for other reasons. We may also cease to offer certain services or products for similar reasons.

 

In the months ahead, we will continue to listen to your feedback as we meet with our partners in the ecosystem to bring additional detail about our policies.

 

This part really does make me think it could be one big marketing strategy. Launch the console like this, and a few months back strip it all away so that you're "a company who listens" and "a console by gamers for gamers" blah blah.

[Hero-of-Time]

The thing that worries me is how silent Sony are about this. You'd think they'd be pushing it as a marketing ploy for the PS4...but their silence makes me think they essentially have the same thing

 

Yup, this is also a major worry of mine. Although they may be certain things that are different between the two, I think for the most part we could be faced with a very similar approach from Sony.

[S.C.G]

I'm 99.99% sure that I won't be getting an XBone now, the 00.01% is purely because of E3 but I don't think even that will save them or change peoples minds, I really don't think it'll change mine anyway.

 

If Sony are going to do exactly the same thing then I won't be buying from them either, however if they can at least assure me that I'll be able to play my games offline in single player without restriction then I'd still definitely consider getting a PS4, it looks like the better out of the 'two' consoles anyway. :p

 

As for the Wii U? i.e the console that's available right now I really think that this will be Nintendo's year, conversely though the main thing I want to see from them is a simple unified account system along with a load of game announcements, if they give us that then they really can't go far wrong. : peace:

[Serebii]

Yup, this is also a major worry of mine. Although they may be certain things that are different between the two, I think for the most part we could be faced with a very similar approach from Sony.

Which will just leave Nintendo, but most ignore them due to cost and/or the console being "underpowered". It also makes sense as to why so many publishers are avoiding the console (even before it had issues with sales)

 

This could signify the end of console gaming as we know it if Sony adopts similar practices