Nolan Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Absolute shit. Not much different than steam (honestly a couple benefits?) other than Steam require 30 days (so I learned in this thread haha) regardless of the PC. Well hell....almost entirely different I guess. TO BE FAIR they absolutely could possibly patch in that the console/games no longer need authentication 10 years down the line, or even transfer the authentication to the next console iteration....IF they want to...IF they thought ahead unlike the Xbox which can't go online anymore. Hell...I wonder how long 360's can go online for. Sure the XBL account is carried over, but it was carried over before too. I'm just disgusted by the idea of requiring online so often. Yes I have it constantly, but that doesn't mean I can always afford it. And there are still plenty without either Highspeed Access, or just plain access. Maybe it's not available. Maybe they can't afford it. And it's shit. And yes Steam is like that at the very least. Authenticate, update, and play. But people without internet damnwell stayed away from steam/PC gaming and played Consoles for that reason. I'm rambling dammit...I'm sorry but whatever.
Shorty Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I agree with all the above, if all this stuff is true then I ain't buying one, unless they have some kind of barely imaginable ace up their sleeve for E3... and it would have to be like... "games are £20 and here's Perfect Dark 2, a Banjo Kazooie Platformer and Halo 5 on launch day and XBL Gold customers will start getting free games a la PS+". I'm not suggesting that's remotely possible, just that's what it would take to balance all the shit. Best part about this is that it doesn't even mention the ramifications of what will happen when the servers go down You think 300,000 servers will go down at once?
Serebii Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 You think 300,000 servers will go down at once? Knowing Microsoft, all 300,000 will be plugged in through a single multiport plug on the wall...not even surge protected :p Seriously though, they selling games to friends bit is shit. I don't get how a company can screw up this badly
MindFreak Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 That Nintendo allows used games must be the reason that EA has stopped supporting the Wii U. Also, the PS4 will have some DRM not totally unlike XBOne, that's for sure. I think it's bad that I can't buy games cheaply and easily in future but then I'll just buy fewer games. The online once every 24 hours is no problem to me but it seems a bit harsh. I really like the idea that you can play you games on any Xbone-console you are logged on to even without the discs. That is pure genious.
James Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Seriously though, they selling games to friends bit is shit. I don't get how a company can screw up this badly Didn't the MS statement just say friends can play your games? Or has something gone way over my head.
Happenstance Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 As I expected its sounds like a slightly crappier version of Steam. I expect Sony to announce similar stuff at E3. I'm still not getting an Xbox One but the DRM stuff was never going to be the reason why as its just something I think we'll have to live with from now on. The only thing that worries me I guess is the lack of an offline mode and the 24 hour limit before online checks which just seems too short if you have a problem with your connection.
Serebii Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Didn't the MS statement just say friends can play your games? Or has something gone way over my head. It's complicated. You can sell a friend your game so they can play it. They have to have been on your friend list for a month and it's one way, you can never get that game back. They then cannot sell the game on themselves. What you read is that you can have up to 10 people on your Xbox One console and content can be shared there. As such, if the person on your console is playing on another, they can play a game from your console. However, not at the same time as you
Hero-of-Time Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Eurogamer has an opinion piece on the whole thing. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile Almost exactly a year ago, at the end of an E3 press conference in which Microsoft heralded fitness software, Kinect, Internet Explorer, Bing and dying action games as the future of entertainment, I wrote that anyone who has paid attention to Microsoft's business over the years should not be surprised by its apparent lack of self-awareness. "If we are entertained by what Microsoft chooses to do for its own gain," I suggested, "then that is simply a happy coincidence." Guess what? The coincidence is over. The fact that Microsoft's policies governing game ownership, sharing and privacy are not surprising does not make them any less devastating to consumer rights, should they be formally adopted and become a standard. They sacrifice our freedom to own and trade games for no other reason than corporate self-interest. To save you skimming large tracts of condescending prose about how much Microsoft loves and respects you as a human wallet, here is a summary: You do not own the games you buy. You license them. Discs are only used to install and then license games and do not imply ownership. People can play games installed on your console whether you're logged in or not. 10 people can be authorised to play these games on a different Xbox One via the cloud, but not at the same time, similar to iTunes authorised devices. Publishers decide whether you can trade in your games and may charge for this. Publishers decide whether you can give a game you own to someone for free, and this only works if they have been on your friends list for 30 days. Your account allows you to play the games you license on any console. Your Xbox One must connect to the internet every 24 hours to keep playing games. When playing on another Xbox One with your account, this is reduced to one hour. Live TV, Blu-ray and DVD movies are exempt from these internet requirements. Loaning and renting games will not be possible at launch, but Microsoft is "exploring the possibilities". Microsoft may change these policies or discontinue them at any point. There is also a promise that Microsoft Studios games will all allow you to trade them in and give them away for free, bringing a whole new emphasis to the expression, "It's the least we could do!" The only positive thing in the whole document is confirmation that you can turn off Kinect and its data will never be uploaded without your permission. Let us all applaud Microsoft's "OK, fine!" decision not to intrude on our privacy. The suggestion that these changes to game ownership have been taken to combat piracy or limit the damage that used game sales do to the primary market do not stand up to much scrutiny - at our most charitable, we can say that the data is merely inconclusive, but analysis of other industries that have dealt with these issues for much longer is pretty clear that the overall benefits at least balance out the risks of allowing piracy and used markets to flourish. The more likely reason for this unprecedented new attitude to console game ownership and sharing is that Microsoft wants to turn its game business into the equivalent of iTunes. The signs are already there in the merger of Xbox, Windows and Windows Phone app stores and the decision to run Xbox games off a Virtual Machine 'game OS' within Xbox One, which could easily be included in new hardware derived from the same architectural roadmap. This is a neat business way of getting everything to line up. It is done in service to Microsoft's corporate objectives. It is not even done with any particular malice towards you and I. Nevertheless, it signals the most significant divergence to date of Microsoft's goals for the Xbox business from our own. It also puts an unspecified expiry date on every Xbox One game ever made and gives you no control over it. Yes, at a point in time where consoles are becoming less relevant, Microsoft's solution is to make them less permanent. The addition of cloud gaming functions, the avoidance of DVD or Blu-ray disc access times, the convenience of global access - these are the rewards we are being offered for our complicity in Microsoft's decision to eradicate the concept of console game ownership. They are not good enough and very little ever will be. Digital marketplaces like Netflix, iTunes and the present Xbox Live are a good thing, but they should be additive. They allow us to form a different kind of relationship with art - a more convenient, expansive and often cheaper one that includes better tools for exploration beyond the borders of our current interest. We should and I do celebrate these things. But a critical reason that I accept them is that I still have the option to own an untouchable physical copy of the things I find there as well. You can say this is no worse than what Steam does, you can say that it is no worse than what a lot of 'content' companies do, and those statements are true, but they do not engage with the most important detail of this news, which is what we are being told to give up in exchange for this new arrangement: the opportunity to form tangible, lasting relationships with art that matters to us. If you never had that, then why would you miss it? But we do. And soon we won't. Collectors will still be able to buy Xbox One games on disc, of course, and we may line them up happily on our shelves so that our friends and families can admire our dedication and taste forever more. But under Microsoft's new rules, we are no longer building a collection of games - we are building a collection of loans that may be recalled from us at any time, leaving us with nothing but distant memories. And that loss will be simple, instant and complete.
James Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 It's complicated. You can sell a friend your game so they can play it. They have to have been on your friend list for a month and it's one way, you can never get that game back. They then cannot sell the game on themselves. What you read is that you can have up to 10 people on your Xbox One console and content can be shared there. As such, if the person on your console is playing on another, they can play a game from your console. However, not at the same time as you Fair enough, the whole microsoft statement released makes zero sense to me it's as bad as it was when they talked about it in there XBone reveal.
Cube Posted June 7, 2013 Author Posted June 7, 2013 One thing I've been thinking about: The EU are usually great when it comes to consumer protection. I can see them having a big problem with this system - especially the "approved retailers" part of it.
Serebii Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 The thing that worries me is how silent Sony are about this. You'd think they'd be pushing it as a marketing ploy for the PS4...but their silence makes me think they essentially have the same thing
Shorty Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 The big danger is millions will still buy this console because they won't even know about this stuff. The backlash from that will be bad, but the sales figures might be enough to make people, inside and outside of Microsoft, think "hey, this model works". As we move into this new generation of games and entertainment, from time to time, Microsoft may change its policies, terms, products and services to reflect modifications and improvements to our services, feedback from customers and our business partners or changes in our business priorities and business models or for other reasons. We may also cease to offer certain services or products for similar reasons. In the months ahead, we will continue to listen to your feedback as we meet with our partners in the ecosystem to bring additional detail about our policies. This part really does make me think it could be one big marketing strategy. Launch the console like this, and a few months back strip it all away so that you're "a company who listens" and "a console by gamers for gamers" blah blah.
Hero-of-Time Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 The thing that worries me is how silent Sony are about this. You'd think they'd be pushing it as a marketing ploy for the PS4...but their silence makes me think they essentially have the same thing Yup, this is also a major worry of mine. Although they may be certain things that are different between the two, I think for the most part we could be faced with a very similar approach from Sony.
S.C.G Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I'm 99.99% sure that I won't be getting an XBone now, the 00.01% is purely because of E3 but I don't think even that will save them or change peoples minds, I really don't think it'll change mine anyway. If Sony are going to do exactly the same thing then I won't be buying from them either, however if they can at least assure me that I'll be able to play my games offline in single player without restriction then I'd still definitely consider getting a PS4, it looks like the better out of the 'two' consoles anyway. :p As for the Wii U? i.e the console that's available right now I really think that this will be Nintendo's year, conversely though the main thing I want to see from them is a simple unified account system along with a load of game announcements, if they give us that then they really can't go far wrong. : peace:
Serebii Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Yup, this is also a major worry of mine. Although they may be certain things that are different between the two, I think for the most part we could be faced with a very similar approach from Sony. Which will just leave Nintendo, but most ignore them due to cost and/or the console being "underpowered". It also makes sense as to why so many publishers are avoiding the console (even before it had issues with sales) This could signify the end of console gaming as we know it if Sony adopts similar practices
not_so_tiny Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 The thing that worries me is how silent Sony are about this. You'd think they'd be pushing it as a marketing ploy for the PS4...but their silence makes me think they essentially have the same thing I am pretty sure Sony have said that they understand the state of internet stability in other countries and that you will be able use the PS4 with no internet connection at all, but PR speak and all that so who knows. I wait with baited breath for Sony to make their stance clear. I have read in a few places, people saying that this doesn't effect them personally so why are we all complaining. This whole 24 hour check etc doesn't effect me for the most part, but I am not happy with a console that restricts gameplay and usability, therefore will not support it.
Serebii Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I am pretty sure Sony have said that they understand the state of internet stability in other countries and that you will be able use the PS4 with no internet connection at all, but PR speak and all that so who knows. I wait with baited breath for Sony to make their stance clear. I have read in a few places, people saying that this doesn't effect them personally so why are we all complaining. This whole 24 hour check etc doesn't effect me for the most part, but I am not happy with a console that restricts gameplay and usability, therefore will not support it. It's mostly the principle. This whole thing changes game ownership to ownership of a license to play the game. Games you buy now will not work in 10 years when their servers close. You cannot lend games out to friends. It's all ridiculous
not_so_tiny Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 It's mostly the principle. This whole thing changes game ownership to ownership of a license to play the game. Games you buy now will not work in 10 years when their servers close. You cannot lend games out to friends. It's all ridiculous Absolutely, it feels like such a backwards system. They are taking the convenience out of gaming and that's what stings the most. This gen has boiled down to: "You can do this, but..."
Agent Gibbs Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I don't know where to begin with just how bad this is, and if Sony adopt this too then is depressing for the entire industry might explain the EA nintendo split some what, they wanted to block reselling their published product, and nintendo didn't want to restrict the consumer........shame average people won't recognize this and just love EA forever more
Ville Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 And the shit just keeps on piling up. Yeah I'm a bit worried about Sony's silence as well, I mean people are hyping them like crazy when it could be a total bomb just like this abomination of a TV box / water dispenser. We'll just have to wait and see...Anyway, I think it's fairly safe to cross XBone of the list now, there's simply just too much stupid crap involved.
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 Just before Christmas I had a minor operation, and was bed ridden for 3 days. Had my Wii U at that point, and had kept Assassins Creed aside knowing I would want some entertainment while unable to move about freely. Then the internet went down in the house for 2 of those 3 days. I was bashing through Assassins Creed 3 and having a great time, cheered me up no end. The thought that, if I had been playing on XboxOne, I wouldn't have been able to play my game after the first day and been essentially sat in bed with nothing to do, purely because the internet went down and it was out of my control, seems absolutely against any basic right as a consumer. If I pay £40 for a game, I want to play it whenever I bloody want to! As long as Nintendo don't suddenly start with this nonsense, and if I could create gifs, I would have one from The Dark Knight Rises. The scene on the ice between Batman and Gordon, with Satoru Iwata's face under the cowl saying "Light it up!" Gordon throws the flare, and it lights up a huge 'Nintendo' sign over Gotham bridge. Then cut to Steve Ballmer in Bane get up mumbling "Impossible!".
Agent Gibbs Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 The whole cloud gaming concerns me in the long run too, Titanfall states that is uses the cloud to run AI for the game. Now this is a multiplayer game so its always online obviously, but M$ have said the cloud can do this for singleplayer, so imagine if the next say Halo comes out and the single player AI is handled by the cloud....thus its always online for single player just like C&C4, Sim City etc and we know how that worked..... but worse still if to function single player you need "the cloud" dedicated servers, then what happens in 5/6/7 years when the xboned (assuming it survives that long) is being phased out in favor of a new console...so they shut down the servers.....thus no working game..... but then the 24 hour online check thing also would result in the same problem, a console with a specific shelf life and microsoft sat on a switch that can shut it all down Imagine if Anon/lulsec hack the cloud and its offline for the same amount of time the psn was down.... As long as Nintendo don't suddenly start with this nonsense, and if I could create gifs, I would have one from The Dark Knight Rises. The scene on the ice between Batman and Gordon, with Satoru Iwata's face under the cowl saying "Light it up!" Gordon throws the flare, and it lights up a huge 'Nintendo' sign over Gotham bridge. Then cut to Steve Ballmer in Bane get up mumbling "Impossible!". Someone please make that
Happenstance Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I think its all going to come down to how much Sony has learnt about the online needs and availability for their customers. With the publishers pushing for this so hard it seems pretty certain that Sony will also have similar stuff in place for used games so Im hoping where they will do better will be the online check times and maybe take a page from Valve's book instead. I dont think this will be some massive thing that destroys the console market. Its been mentioned time and time again but this stuff has been like this on Steam for years and that is extremely popular. Of course its not being done as well here by any standard but I expect it will get refined over time and work a hell of a lot better the more the industry moves from physical disks to digital only.
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