Pokemon X & Y

[Ashley]

As I wrote in ONM, why should they change the entire genre of the game. You don't see people asking that of the other video game franchises, so why Pokémon?

 

It's more changing approach, than changing genre (i.e. turn based RPG to action RPG or whatever they call it, rather than asking for it to suddenly become a visual novel).

 

Plus, people ask for everything to be changed. There's always people complaining. Your point is moot :p

[Aneres11]

I personally feel like the series has dramatically changed with each game.

 

Black and White were totally fresh experiences for me - everything from the travel from town to town to the new Pokemon to the story line to the unique lairs of the Elite 4 - it was brilliant!

 

And Black and White 2 added upon this and made one of, if not the best Pokemon yet!

 

Early signs of this look very promising.

The Pokemon look interesting, the battling finally looks like you will want to keep your eyes on the screen throughout all of it rather than just selecting your move and looking at the TV for a few seconds! The possible character customisation is pretty cool (if true / available) and some of the environments look lovely indeed.

 

Consider me very excited. This looks to freshen everything up and fix the major gripes people have had with the games for a while. Roll on October!!

[-Dem0-]

Oh look, more of the same! Again.

 

Pass. Again. Way to completely kill my interest in a franchise, Nintendo. You've got the touch... you've got the power.

 

Am I really the only one who's annoyed that the Pokemon series has seemingly become part of the "Yearly Sport Title" bunch? The main games have all essentially been the same since the first gen with incremental graphical and character roster upgrades tacked on.

 

Red/Blue and Silver/Gold are still some of my favourite games of all time, but this formulaic approach to the series has completely stopped me from truly enjoying any of the other games as much as I did the first 2 gens. I'll admit I did have some fun with Ruby and Diamond, but the series has felt hollow for me since the 3rd gen and by the time B&W came around I just completely lost interest in it 6 or 7 hours into the game due to familiarity. I want something different, something new. I want Nintendo to make me love the Pokémon games again and this is not the way to do it.

 

Sorry for being such a negative Nancy about this, but it really does irk me. Especially because Pokémon used to be one of my favourite IPs and now it's just... barren (imo, obviously).

 

I see your point, but if this 'formula' changed then it won't be Pokémon would it?

At it's core Pokémon is a turn based RPG. That's what it is and what it set out to be.

 

Masuda:

"Everyone can play, everyone knows the rules. It transcends age, era, and culture. This gives the games huge longevity."

 

Generations 1-4 had seen a few major innovations, but with Gen 5 and especially the recently released Black 2 & White 2, I think the Series is heading in the right direction.

Especially with the Story and direct sequels, thanks to this I think Unova has a lot more going for it when compared to some of the other regions simply because we get to see how the region changed after 2 years, it gives you a sense of 'importance' or 'liveliness' everything isn't the same, it has changed this isn't a one-time-visit it's more dynamic.

 

Also thanks to the improved infrastructure of the 3DS, we should see some other changes that are brought to the table and new, innovative ideas are born thanks to its many features.

 

I think you should give Black/White & Black/White 2 another chance.

[Fused King]

As I wrote in ONM, why should they change the entire genre of the game. You don't see people asking that of the other video game franchises, so why Pokémon?

 

Ashley puts it nicely.

 

It's more changing approach, than changing genre (i.e. turn based RPG to action RPG or whatever they call it, rather than asking for it to suddenly become a visual novel).

 

Plus, people ask for everything to be changed. There's always people complaining. Your point is moot :p

 

And I must say, if have all sorts of ideas for a wide range of franchises

 

I guess all I'd like to see is them changing the battle system in someway which makes it more dynamic and, perhaps, real-time.

And when-o-when will they finally incorporate all the different regions into one game?

I thought it would be the standard starting with Gold and Silver, ...but it wasn't

 

Still, I'm optimistic about X and Y and am very curious as to how they'll utilise the extra power of the 3DS.

[Serebii]

Ashley puts it nicely.

 

 

 

And I must say, if have all sorts of ideas for a wide range of franchises

 

I guess all I'd like to see is them changing the battle system in someway which makes it more dynamic and, perhaps, real-time.

And when-o-when will they finally incorporate all the different regions into one game?

I thought it would be the standard starting with Gold and Silver, ...but it wasn't

 

Still, I'm optimistic about X and Y and am very curious as to how they'll utilise the extra power of the 3DS.

Different battle systems belong in the spin-offs

 

Multiple regions won't be in one game because the balance would be horrific. Either they'd have to increase max level to like 500 or stop you using your Pokemon in each new region

[Ashley]

Multiple regions won't be in one game

 

Other than Gold/Silver...

[Captain Falcon]

I get what you mean Fused/Oxi.

 

When I was watching the stream, it really hit home when they showed Platinum 2009, Gold/Silver 2010, Black/White 2011, Black/White2 2012, and now this 2013 - we're approaching Activision/Ubisoft territory here with releases.

 

What doesn't help is the lack of progression in the core gameplay elements over the years and whilst I know there have been changes, they soon get lost in the sea of familiarity which is the rest of the game.

 

I do think it needs to change but ultimately, the turn based battle system really can't be changed much without turning it into a different game. What can be worked on though, is the overworld. One thing I always felt with Pokémon games is that the world feels rather static and that I'm the only thing moving - basically, it doesn't feel alive. It needs a living, breathing world to explore. Let me see Pokémon rear their head out of the grass as I walk by, some stop what they are doing to watch me whereas others run off nervously. Why can't I hear the bird ones chirp as you walk through the forests or see Goldeens and Margikarp jump out of rivers as I wander past.

 

Secondly, and I don't know if this has been recitifed with the Black/White series but they need to abandon HMs altogether infavour of a far more robust system that sees a much wider variety of creature moves, and even themselves, being capable of being used in the field. A water creature shouldn't need to know Surf for me to be able to swim on it's back - if it's big enough and strong enough, it should be able to carry me - same goes with Flying Pokémon needing to know Fly. And then you look at moves like Cut - why should only cut work when there are moves like Slash, Fury Swipes, X-scissor etc. All these should be usable but you can't. Need to like up a dark tunnel? Sure, your Charmander may have a flame on its tail but unless it knows Flash, it will always be dark - it's not needed.

 

Basically, I think the overworld should take a leaf out of Golden Sun's book and just open itself up more to player interaction via their Pokémon but without the archaic restrictions - it would also allow for far better puzzles just than using Strength to shift blocks around.

 

The original games were held back by system limits but it seems it's had a consequential impact on any actual proper evolution in the series as they fear from straying from it even remotely saving the better ideas for spin offs that don't get the same level of treatment and exposure.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Captain Falcon

[Fused King]

Different battle systems belong in the spin-offs

 

Multiple regions won't be in one game because the balance would be horrific. Either they'd have to increase max level to like 500 or stop you using your Pokemon in each new region

 

It's a difficult point indeed, but I bet it could work in some way.

 

One could perhaps need more EXP to level after level 50 or something.

 

How else are we going to get our Pokémon rainbow one day?

 

I do think it needs to change but ultimately, the turn based battle system really can't be changed much without turning it into a different game. What can be worked on though, is the overworld. One thing I always felt with Pokémon games is that the world feels rather static and that I'm the only thing moving - basically, it doesn't feel alive. It needs a living, breathing world to explore. Let me see Pokémon rear their head out of the grass as I walk by, some stop what they are doing to watch me whereas others run off nervously. Why can't I hear the bird ones chirp as you walk through the forests or see Goldeens and Margikarp jump out of rivers as I wander past.

 

Secondly, and I don't know if this has been recitifed with the Black/White series but they need to abandon HMs altogether infavour of a far more robust system that sees a much wider variety of creature moves, and even themselves, being capable of being used in the field. A water creature shouldn't need to know Surf for me to be able to swim on it's back - if it's big enough and strong enough, it should be able to carry me - same goes with Flying Pokémon needing to know Fly. And then you look at moves like Cut - why should only cut work when there are moves like Slash, Fury Swipes, X-scissor etc. All these should be usable but you can't. Need to like up a dark tunnel? Sure, your Charmander may have a flame on its tail but unless it knows Flash, it will always be dark - it's not needed.

 

Beautiful, and the overworld is indeed another thing that needs to come more alive. THE ANIME DAMNIT!

[Serebii]

Other than Gold/Silver...

Yeah and look at how bad the balance is there. Elite Four at low 40s. Empty second region barring a few trainers. Half the areas gimped.

[Ashley]

Yeah and look at how bad the balance is there. Elite Four at low 40s. Empty second region barring a few trainers. Half the areas gimped.

 

I enjoyed it. Felt like an in-game sequel.

 

As suggested, you could just leave all your Pokémon at Oaks or whatever tree the new professor will be named after.

[Jonnas]

Why does it look like the Eiffel Tower in the CGI part, but not in game?

 

I'm guessing they made the CGI segment for this announcement alone, it's not actually part of the game.

 

Cheskin is an otter with a green hat =\ how is that grass.

 

That's clearly a chestnut, of course it's grass. And I think that's a chipmunk.

 

(Also, I'm totally getting dat Frog)

 

As I wrote in ONM, why should they change the entire genre of the game. You don't see people asking that of the other video game franchises, so why Pokémon?

 

When people ask for radical changes (like changing the battle system to be real time), what they actually want are spin-offs, but they either don't realise it or won't admit it.

 

That said, Captain Falcon's suggestions regarding the overworld are actually far more sensible and feasible. Definitely the sort of thing that can be done inject life into the franchise without forgetting the roots.

[Serebii]

Why does it look like the Eiffel Tower in the CGI part, but not in game?

 

Looks it, albeit slightly altered, to me

[Fused King]

Perhaps a mix of the Eiffel Tower and Tokyo Tower?

 

 

 

When people ask for radical changes (like changing the battle system to be real time), what they actually want are spin-offs, but they either don't realise it or won't admit it.

 

That said, Captain Falcon's suggestions regarding the overworld are actually far more sensible and feasible. Definitely the sort of thing that can be done inject life into the franchise without forgetting the roots.

 

You love me too much to call me out on this one, don'tcha

Edited January 8, 2013 by Fused King
Automerged Doublepost

[Serebii]

When I was watching the stream, it really hit home when they showed Platinum 2009, Gold/Silver 2010, Black/White 2011, Black/White2 2012, and now this 2013 - we're approaching Activision/Ubisoft territory here with releases.

 

To be fair, in the land of the rising sun, it's like this

 

Platinum: 2008

HGSS: 2009

BW: 2010

B2W2: 2012

 

What doesn't help is the lack of progression in the core gameplay elements over the years and whilst I know there have been changes, they soon get lost in the sea of familiarity which is the rest of the game.

 

That's crazy, the games change loads, especially between generations

[Ashley]

 

That's crazy, the games change loads, especially between generations

 

There are plenty of new mechanics, but actual gameplay? I mean really, who the fuck cares about dressing up your Pokémon or making them dance?

[Jonnas]

You love me too much to call me out on this one, don'tcha

 

Just saying, a different battle system radically alters a game.

[Dcubed]

There are plenty of new mechanics, but actual gameplay? I mean really, who the fuck cares about dressing up your Pokémon or making them dance?

 

You obviously don't frequent Smogon...

 

The battle machanics change hugely with each game (the sole exception being Black & White 2, for obvious reasons)

 

To name the more blatantly obvious changes that anyone should notice...

 

Gen 2: Two new Pokemon types (Dark & Steel), Separation of Defence and Special Defence, equipable items

 

Gen 3: Double Battles, Tag Battles, Abilities, Natures, addition of cups and rules during linked battles

 

Gen 4: Overhaul of Special/Attack damage system (It's not just based on type anymore, but rather is based on logic), Online battles, Auto-Levelling up/down

 

Gen 5: Triple Battles, Rotation Battles, The Wonder Launcher, Online battling with randoms, Online Tournaments, TMs now have infinite use

 

And those are just the tips of their respective icebergs!

Edited January 8, 2013 by Dcubed

[Diageo]

Meta changes can be exciting for very avid Pokemon fans who battle competitively, but for the average Pokemon player that just plays through the story, it changes very little.

[Retro_Link]

 

Looks it, albeit slightly altered, to me

No but it is the Eiffel Tower in the CGI video, that isn't. However you look at it they aren't the same. Not a big deal, but why not just do the CGI tower to match.

[Ashley]

Meta changes can be exciting for very avid Pokemon fans who battle competitively, but for the average Pokemon player that just plays through the story, it changes very little.

 

This essentially. If you delve into Pokemon it's a deep game, with a lot of changes. For your average Joe (no pun intended ) they're all quite similar.

 

It's all perspective/interpretation really.

[Aneres11]

Then it most definitely comes down to interpretation as my level of play with all the Pokemon games has been start, beat gyms, beat elite 4, do some post game content, try and level up, give up, finish. On to next one.

 

And as per my last post I've definitely felt the changes with each generation.

 

I would only really class myself as a casual Pokemon fan too. You wont see me delving into stat changes and IV things and move-sets etc. Breeding is hard enough :p

[Agent Gibbs]

I'm so with Captain Falcon on doing away with HM's or opening more moves up to doing their action e.g all cutting moves can cut down bushes, although i still find it so irritatingly stupid how a bush can stop someones travel on a path, especially when to the side is a wooden fence a small boy could climb....... please some damn logic once in a while

Edited January 9, 2013 by Agent Gibbs

[Oxigen_Waste]

As I wrote in ONM, why should they change the entire genre of the game. You don't see people asking that of the other video game franchises, so why Pokémon?

 

Well, if you include me in "people" that's not quite true, as I pretty much complain about every single series if it becomes formulaic.

 

I personally feel like the series has dramatically changed with each game.

 

Black and White were totally fresh experiences for me - everything from the travel from town to town to the new Pokemon to the story line to the unique lairs of the Elite 4 - it was brilliant!

 

I'm not saying it hasn't changed at all... but it most certainly hasn't changed dramatically or even significantly.

 

I see your point, but if this 'formula' changed then it won't be Pokémon would it?

At it's core Pokémon is a turn based RPG. That's what it is and what it set out to be.

 

I completely disagree with that entire reasoning. The true identity of a gaming series/IP doesn't reside in it's gameplay. It's all about the mythology, imo. Your school of thought is the reason we live in a world where developers keep making the same Zelda game over and over. And that's just fine, but I think along different lines... sequels should be the stuff of evolutionary leaps of faith, instead of merely attempting to remake what was previously achieved. Sure, there's a high risk factor and many times, when tinkering with new concepts you'll end up with duds like Other M, Zelda 2, Deus Ex 2 or Splinter Cell Conviction... but those are worth the price of admission if the positive result of undergoing such processes are true works of art like Resident Evil 4, Shadow of the Colossus or Metroid Prime. These are the games you'll remember!!!! The Mega Man 2s and Uncharted 2s of this world, the games that dared to go way above and beyond what their predecessors' success dictated they should be. It's the myth of Icarus all over again, and while some times things end up burning, I'd much rather risk a flop if that meant there was a chance I could be enjoying something that felt truly unique and refreshing. Instead, we have this production line mentality where most developers play it safe and we end up with stuff like Bioshock 2 or the Assassin's Creed sequels... perfectly adequate games that ultimately fail to impress.

 

Now, I'm not saying every single game should be a radical departure from it's predecessors, not at all! Some concepts only really come alive after maturing, and it's always awesome to see truly great sequels like Dark Souls so adequately perfecting the design of the games that preceded it, however, once a concept peaks, I personally believe there ceases to be a point and if the developers keep pushing that same button over and over it will eventually lose all of it's charm. Pokémon peaked with it's first 2 gens, and it's sad to see it go down the same route the Mega Man franchise did... haplessly ticking the same checkboxes over and over and over again, for as long as they can still turn a profit while performing the same old tricks.

 

Yeah and look at how bad the balance is there. Elite Four at low 40s. Empty second region barring a few trainers. Half the areas gimped.

 

I've noticed this before, you don't seem to like the 2nd gen games that much...

 

(which is odd, considering who you are and how much most of the Pokémmunity loves the 2nd gen).

 

Just saying, a different battle system radically alters a game.

 

And that's exactly what the IP needs. A complete overhaul.

[Jonnas]

Gen 2: Two new Pokemon types (Dark & Steel), Separation of Defence and Special Defence, equipable items

 

I'm pretty sure the ability to breed pokémon and the introduction of an in-game clock kind of trump all of what you said combined...

 

And I'd say that the most important additions throughout the years were the Abilities, Special/Physical split and Online. Nothing else came close to the immense evolution that Gen 2 did. Generations since add mostly its and bits, here and there.

I think it's a fair point, even if I think that Pokémon's slow and steady evolution works.

 

I'm all for spin-offs, though. "Paper Mario"-ize that shit. "WarioWare" the fuck out of it. I don't care how you call it, this should be encouraged.

[Mr_Master_X2]

Advancement is there, it's just not as fast as most would like.

 

I do like the battle system, and yes I pretty much agree with Serebii (other battle systems are for the spinoffs!) but I'm guessing there are still plenty of ways to improve the experience.

 

For one, the constant wall of texts explaining stuff. Sometimes it just becomes so bloody draining. It'd be nice if the damage you did just came up, whether you did a critical or not, and instead of saying "you got this effect status" simple show it with a little stat icon and the obvious "oh look he's purple, he must be poisoned!". So much time could be shaved off battles this way, and with the switch to 3D I have a feeling we're going to need to trim battle time.

 

They should have done it with the 3DS but; touchscreen attacks. I'm not talking every attack, I'm talking a few unique ones here and there. SMEARGLE has a drawing/paint attack and how you draw the symbol chooses what status effect it does. CHATOT shouting into the mic alters the attack percentage etc. Obviosuly the can be turned of for their default versions, but if you choose... Maybe wild/grass Pokemon can be seen bobbing about the grass and you have to stylus aim the pokeball. Obviously boss ones would be different and would need to be stationary.

 

I like the way Gyms are going; more interaction, expanded themes. In my mind EVERY gym should have its own gym and boss music theme. Each gym needs to keep its "unique look" and puzzles. More trainers, and you get LOCKED IN. You lose? Those trainers are back when you re-enter! First 3 Gym leaders have 3-4 Pokemon, second 3 have 4-5 Pokemon, last 2 have all 6 Pokemon each. i'd also like an Orange League style task/puzzle for every gym that's mini game for your Pokemon.

 

That's what Gamefreak need to remember; the 3DS is the console KING OF INTERACTION.

 

HMs. While they can still be taught to Pokemon as moves they use in battle, world map usage is done by simply selecting whatever has HM used against it whether the HM is taught to a Pokemon or not. If you have a Pokemon that can use the move, it will use it, learnt or not. I LIKE HMs, just NOT how they're implemented. Make plenty of them, lots of new ones and I can see plenty of world map puzzles.

 

My main problem with the Pokemon games, and one I see NEVER being fixed is the DELIBERATE gimping of the first versions so they can add stuff for the expanded version. Don't get me wrong, I love both the normal and special editions, it's just (OCD) I go for everything. Knowing the "proper" version is still to come puts a dampener on things because I know by the time I get to it, not enough will have changed to make the game feel fresh. I love all the new stuff in BW2, but I'm trudging through the post game because it feels like I've just completed the same game twice in quick succession...and this is the one with the most changes! (I can only imagine the love you have for these games Serebii, since don't you go through the Jap, then English version of the normal AND special editions?)

 

Oh, and they need to stop removing the good mini game competitions and replacing them with rubbish ones! The games definitely need alternate competitions to the main gyms. Pokeathlon/PROPER Musical with the dancing moves and stuff! Pokestar was decent, but where would they go for the sequel?

 

Also, I want a 3DS "OFFICIAL POKEMON TRAINER CARD" app. that stores all my badges/achievements and stats from ALL pokemon games I've played and completed (DS>3DS and the inevitable E-Shop Classic versions of the older games). Just something classy about having a Trainer Card and Case with 48 Gym badges on it, and an "I woz ere" for every region, and little piccies of ALL the E4 with bruised faces. Yes, I really did win Pokemon and here's proof!