Sheikah Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Fucking hell, just listening to all these add ons makes you realise they should design the console properly in the first place.
dazzybee Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Yeah, the more you think about it the more frustrating it is. They won't release a CPP XL. So then how do I play Resident Evil?! And with it not being a part of the system developers won't use it, meaning we don't get a good FPS, or good camera control in games because NIntendo are utterly insane and milady retarded!
Retro_Link Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 NIntendo are utterly insane and milady retarded! As in?...
James McGeachie Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 This decision in its entirety is so brutally fucking the fanbase over that I'm actually tempted to just boycott Nintendo products from here on out. Fans wanted 1 thing from a re-design, the extra stick as part of the system. That's it. What we get is something no one asked for, that accomplishes the following amazingly dick-ish outcomes. 1. Create a market for chargers to be sold separately, solely for the sake of selling more chargers 2. Offers a new model that competes with the original 3DS instead of replacing is, therefore giving people reasons to own both, instead of just one of them, yet still with a sense of dissatisfaction even if they do have both. 3. Leaves all the people who were waiting for a redesign STILL waiting for a redesign, except now wondering if Nintendo even give the faintest shit about whether or not they buy the system, even though they actually WANT to buy it. I'm in/was in that group. I want a 3DS, but I was waiting for Nintendo to do the sensible thing. Except, they haven't...and apparently wont? Fuck them.
Retro_Link Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 BTW is the thread title wrong?... it's XL right?
V. Amoleo Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 BTW is the thread title wrong?... it's XL right? In Japan it's LL. Like with the DSi XL. Also, to the people moaning about the lack of second slide pad. If they'd have done that, it would have made the original 3DS obsolete. I honestly think that's a worse situation.
Retro_Link Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Oh ok, I'll change it then. What's LL stand for? Large Large? :p
James McGeachie Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 In Japan it's LL. Like with the DSi XL. Also, to the people moaning about the lack of second slide pad. If they'd have done that, it would have made the original 3DS obsolete. I honestly think that's a worse situation. Yeah, God forbid that they make sub-optimal products obsolete and thus are able to stop wasting shitloads of resources. The original DS Phat was made obsolete. Was that bad? No, no of course it wasn't. No one had to buy an ugly brick anymore. Making the original 3DS obsolete doesn't fuck over people who own it, because they have the circle pad pro as an option. Just like how having Motion plus built into the Wii remote now doesn't fuck over people with original wii remotes, since the attachment still exists.
FireMeowth Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 The thing is, while the DS Lite was made to replace the DS, the 3DS XL isn't made to replace the 3DS. It's made to be a new option for 3DS gaming for the people who want bigger handhelds, like the DSi XL was to the DSi. Besides, when the number of games that can even use the Circle Pad Pro can be counted on one hand (or is it two now?) and the number of games that require the Circle Pad Pro is and will always be 0, there's absolutely no way they'd put it on the 3DS.
James McGeachie Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 The thing is, while the DS Lite was made to replace the DS, the 3DS XL isn't made to replace the 3DS. It's made to be a new option for 3DS gaming for the people who want bigger handhelds, like the DSi XL was to the DSi. Besides, when the number of games that can even use the Circle Pad Pro can be counted on one hand (or is it two now?) and the number of games that require the Circle Pad Pro is and will always be 0, there's absolutely no way they'd put it on the 3DS. So. 1: You're right, the 3DS XL is being made as to 3DS as DSi XL was to DSi. Except, that was after they'd dealt with issues with the 3DS. DSi in particular has a lot over the original DS. With the 3DS it's like HEEEYYY let's just forget the part where we fix genuine faults and just skip to marginal improvements. The 3DS XL isn't the problem in itself, it's what they've basically skipped over that's the issue. 2: So your argument is, the number of games that use CCP is low, so it's not important to have the stick on 3DS. So, (i) that's because it hasn't been out long, (ii) why is that even a valid reason, when fans want it and developers ARE adding support in? It'd gain more support if it was built in, obviously and can always be optional but ALWAYS be a great option to have. On it never being used exclusively, so? The big screen will never be used for essential gaming purposes, but we're getting one right? Why are we getting one? Oh, because some people might buy it. Why would an extra stick be a good idea? OH, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO BUY IT!
Sheikah Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Yeah, God forbid that they make sub-optimal products obsolete and thus are able to stop wasting shitloads of resources. The original DS Phat was made obsolete. Was that bad? No, no of course it wasn't. No one had to buy an ugly brick anymore. Making the original 3DS obsolete doesn't fuck over people who own it, because they have the circle pad pro as an option. Just like how having Motion plus built into the Wii remote now doesn't fuck over people with original wii remotes, since the attachment still exists. A very convincing argument that highlights the flaws to the new model.
david.dakota Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 and developers ARE adding support in iii. Many western developers already utilise dual sticks, its part of how they work, part of how they see video games. They're not going to bring over software that seems stupid - the 'alternatives' offered by Miyam-out-of-touch are frankly ridiculous - using the stylus is cripplingly un-fun and gyro control: just what the fuck is he thinking - its clearly not his retirement. Kid Icarus Uprising is a perfect example; I ended up liking the game but not actually playing it. The level design, the VO work, the visuals and the entire premise were stunning and, although not how I really wanted the franchise revived, its a credit to the developers. But the actual processes required to play the game are flawed to a ridiculous level; killing the 3D effect and generally uncomfortable, it is a chore to play it. Dual sticks would have immediately improved the game and elevated that game to 'classic' status IMO. That game is, lets be honest, let down by poor controls due to poor hardware design - i fail to see how anyone can really defend it against that critisism. There is plenty of real estate on this machine to include a second circle pad and doing do would not have made the original 'obselete', no more so than the annual iPhone update makes the previous version obselete. Dual sticks would please an important minority; label it the 3DS Pro and its clearly aimed at a particular type of gamer. Few games, if any, would be entirely reliant on a second pad anyway. Most would likely include Miyamoto's joke/alternatives. The subject of power cables is an industry wide problem; tons and tons of chargers are sent to landfill each year and - putting on my eco hat for a moment - its a pretty good idea for Nintendo to have done this: you only buy the charger if you need it. However, my view is that we desperately need a global, industry standard for charging devices whether that be simple USB or we push for a wireless alternative: all my devices should be charged by one standard cable (or, ideally, wireless pad).
Mandalore Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 Wait, so is the 3DS XL getting a CPP attachment of its own? Or have Nintendo done a U-turn the Conservative party would be proud of?
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 I'm not sure where I stand with the whole "second control stick" argument. However, it makes more sense to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it there. So, if they are going to a second model/redesign, they may as well include the second stick as part of the unit, rather than having to include a larger slide-pad attachment for games that do use it. What is irritating me is Nintendo's attitude to handheld hardware, particularly releasing re-iterations and newer models. I remember being so proud of my brand new DS, only to then see it trounced on by the DS lite, which is what the original handheld should have been in the first place. Then, they confused the majority of people by releasing the DSi. I haven't committed to buying a 3DS, purely because I know that at some stage Nintendo will release a better version of it. They really need to take a look at themselves here. I won't be happy if they start pulling this shit with their home consoles.
Cube Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 However, my view is that we desperately need a global, industry standard for charging devices whether that be simple USB MicroUSB is the standard that the majority of companies have mutually agreed on for mobile phones (Apple are the obvious exception). Expanding this to all mobile devices would be a nice thing. Having a wireless standard on top of this, too (so it's not a requirement, but many devices will have an optional wireless battery that can be used with a standard charger), would be very nice.
tapedeck Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) In regards to the second circle pad - is it really a "must-have'? I thoroughly enjoyed the DS even with just the D-Pad and remember the arguments stating that it should have had analogue control upon launch (especially when you used the thumb strap to play Mario64). But the portable sold bazillions on it's unique software - and unique design. (Which showed no signs of slowing down sales of software and is seemingly so good the 3DS adopts the design...but with that added analogue control for precision gaming). If the 3DS had dual analogue built in I'm sure we would see a multitude of easy-hashed out PSP ports and shooters which, let's be honest, wouldnt necessarily be a bad thing considering the software lineup appears to be pretty limited at the moment. However, I'm sure the 3DS will have a wealth of innovative, exciting titles in it's lifetime and with the CCPro add-on there IS the alternative option now, for developers who want to design with the add-on in mind - albeit for a limited audience seeking that console experience on the go. (I'm yet to be convinced that approach works in the handheld market.) I'm sure the XL will gain some form of CCPro - time will tell. But going mental about it all now seems to back up Reggie's point earlier in the week about Nintendo fans being Insatiable and complacent. It would be nice if people just enjoyed the systems and the games for what they are instead of what they aren't. I know we debate about Nintendo a lot as we are passionate about the games but damn, they get a hell of a lot of flack these days. Meanwhile I'll be enjoying the 3DS on equal terms with my family as we all adore Mario Land, Mario Kart and the other titles out there. And not once have I heard anyone say 'this machine is terribly designed due to no second analogue'. Just my two cents - which seem at odds with what most people think. Edited June 24, 2012 by tapedeck
dazzybee Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Of course the 3DS is a great machine and will undoubtedly have lots of great games on the market. I have the vita too, which is dual analogue and it is infinitely better than what that has to offer in pretty much every regard. But at the same time, why not? Why limit it? Resident evil is much better to play because of the dual analogue and so is Metal Gear by all accounts. I'd also really like a rest 3D first person shooter, this will be hard using the touch screen however much I enjoyed hunters. Kid Icarus would also gaily benefit from it. It's still early in the life and with a redesign it's there opportunity to add the second stick and give reasons to develop games for it. But they haven't. This for me is a huge mistake which will come to affect it for its whole life now. Ultimately it'll have more than enough classic games for me to love it. But I wouldn't mind the best if all worlds, seems Nintendo refuse to give us that and force a lot of people to look elsewhere.
Fused King Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Can anyone help me here? I haven't the foggiest as to why this 'redesign' was conceived. Who likes BIGGER handhelds? The battery life improved how much? Any SIGNIFICANT upgrades? Who are they targetting this machine at? People from Spain who moved to Britain a long time ago?
FireMeowth Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Who likes BIGGER handhelds? I do! Bigger is always better in these cases (well, at least in the case of the DSi XL)! The battery life improved how much? About 30 minutes (the battery is improved more than that, of course, but the bigger screens require more power). If I remember correctly. Any SIGNIFICANT upgrades? Nope. It's only supposed to be a bigger 3DS, not a new 3DS. If you're happy with the size of your 3DS there is absolutely no (logical) reason to buy the 3DS XL. Who are they targetting this machine at? The same people the DSi XL was targeted at.
madeinbeats Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Can anyone help me here? I haven't the foggiest as to why this 'redesign' was conceived. Who likes BIGGER handhelds? The battery life improved how much? Any SIGNIFICANT upgrades? Who are they targetting this machine at? People from Spain who moved to Britain a long time ago? It's not a redesign, it's just bigger. I always thought the XLs were for the older gamy eyed Touch Generation who play Brain Training etc.. obviously not. They've never appealed to me either. Edited June 24, 2012 by madeinbeats
Aneres11 Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 I went from a DSi to a DSi XL and I much preferred the XL. The larger screen and the bigger hand room made it way more comfortable to play games for a long period of time. The biggest difference was not experiencing hand cramp after playing for a while! I also liked the bigger screen! I will deffo be getting one no doubt. Though I do wish the screen resolution had been improved.
Fused King Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 So it's basically a bigger 3DS which has the same costs of the 3DS because of the seperate sold charger? The decision seems strange, because the 3DS is being sold at a loss and if this XL will take more money to produce then . . .nah, they're not that stupid.
madeinbeats Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Someone was asked recently at or post E3 is they were selling the 3DS at a loss and they said something like they never sell at a loss, it was just stupidly overpriced at launch.
dazzybee Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 No, they have admitted many times they have been selling it at a loss. First time ever. But that come the summer it won't be. So now they won't, and the xl won't.
Retro_Link Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Is the Kid Icarus stand big enough to hold this model, or will we be getting an XL for that too? :p
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