Is Nintendo About to go a Generation Down Already?

[Retro_Link]

At the same E3 as Nintendo gears up to launch the Wii U, we've seen some games that have shown a clear levelling up of the current consoles.

 

Games like...

 

The Last of Us

 

 

 

Need For Speed: Most Wanted

 

 

 

Tomb Raider

 

 

 

and others such as Beyond, Far Cry and Splinter Cell Blacklist.

 

All appear to have a new level of polish and take the PS3 and 360 to the upmost limits of what these consoles are capable of achieving.

 

Hopefully Nintendo's own efforts and Retro Studios are well up to the task of matching these games, if not right away, then within a couple of years of the console.

 

However, there were a couple of games at E3 that surpassed all others, and appeared to be the first step towards the next generation of consoles already. These two games were of course...

 

Watch Dogs

 

 

 

and especially, Star Wars 1313

 

 

 

Now whilst these games might be downgraded to run on the PS3 and 360, there's every chance they could well be next gen launch titles in late 2013 (potentially in the case of the PS3, rumoured to want to launch first), or otherwsie 2014.

 

Regarding the Wii U then, you would have to hope that the console is already powered and capable of playing this class of games if it is to remain competitive?

Edited June 6, 2012 by Retro_Link

[Hamishmash]

It's sad how much time Nintendo spent showing a 1-year-old port of a current gen game. WiiU should be NEXT gen... but it's selling point atm seems to be "You can now play current gen games... on a Nintendo console!"

[Debug Mode]

I've insisted that they weren't truly going to be next gen, but it was obvious any way.

 

The Wii, despite being significantly behind, still managed to sell and for quite a while the weakest but cheapest console sells the most. I doubt Nintendo will stray too far from that unless the Wii U bites them on the ass.

[Aimless]

Whilst the console might be capable of it, I don't think you'll ever see a Wii U game with the graphical fidelity of The Last of Us. Power won't get you far without money to push it and Nintendo are a very different company to Sony; Retro are probably the closest the former has to Naughty Dog, but so far they've been working within existing IP which is rather limiting.

 

That said the machine will certainly be capable of impressive games. The biggest ding against the best looking Wii games is they don't tend to fare well blown up on a big TV, which shouldn't be an issue this time around.

 

Multiplatform games ostensibly not looking any better on Wii U does make it unlikely I'll pick one up this year, but then people in my position — those who own multiple consoles and are itching for a new generation — are a fairly niche market. Being a more obvious stopgap system would likely have netted Nintendo some more day-one sales, but ultimately those aren't the consumers they're targeting; that segment's likely to move on to the next Xbox or PlayStation next year anyway.

 

The Wii U very much seems to be the Wii again, albeit far less likely to capture the general public's attention to such a degree. That isn't really a bad thing, though, as the Wii's a great console in its way; it's never been enough for me, but it wasn't trying to be.

[Ashley]

"That being said, the fun and enjoyment you get out of those games isn't only based on how the images look on those screens. To be quite frank, if you start trying to push too much performance, it results in more expensive components which ultimately raises the cost of the hardware.Personally, you need to draw a fine line between the performance and the cost and being able to create the experiences that you want to create."

 

Bill Trinnen.

[madeinbeats]

If the WiiU specs talked about on Gaf are final, then the WiiU hardware leaves PS3&360 eating its dust. I know for a fact Watch_Dogs was demoed on a top end PC, they said so after the show -- what else was? Word is there must be a reason the U games shown looked like they were missing something if it has the hardware it does. I'm just following the conversation to see what's said.

[yesteryeargames]

Im sure the games will blow away anything you see on 360/ps3 when they do come,

 

nintendo sadly didnt do them selves any favours a missed chance with the world watching to blow us all away , im bet im not the only person who thought it would have been a success with just 1 big new nintendo game shown i would not have cared if hey said the release was 2013, but just to show off the graphics, while im sure all the games shown were loads of fun i think they simply wasted a chance here,

 

At least the whole thing was no overcrowded with shooters like the others ,

[sagat]

I don't think it was that terrible as some 'fans' make it to be. Sure they could have done more but they have a games developers conference and more games might be announced for it. I am not too worried as i believe the console will succeed in the long run

[madeinbeats]

Im sure the games will blow away anything you see on 360/ps3 when they do come,

 

nintendo sadly didnt do them selves any favours a missed chance with the world watching to blow us all away , im bet im not the only person who thought it would have been a success with just 1 big new nintendo game shown i would not have cared if hey said the release was 2013, but just to show off the graphics, while im sure all the games shown were loads of fun i think they simply wasted a chance here,

 

At least the whole thing was no overcrowded with shooters like the others ,

 

Nope, that was all that stood between E3 success and failure. They needed 2012 tech demo showcase. They must know by now they need to address it soon if they want any core gamer interest.

[Dcubed]

The leaked tech specs (which have been verified by those in the know and can be seen here: http://www.vgleaks.com/world-premiere-wii-u-specs/) show what amounts to a mid range PC that is a clear jump from the PS360.

 

It is capable of the full shader model 5 featureset (despite technically being a shader model 4 GPU - sort of similar to how the 360 has Direct X 10 features, despite being a DX9 GPU), so it should be capable of running all of those games with relative ease (and very likely should be able to run UE4)

 

The question is not whether or not the system is capable, but rather if 3rd parties can be cajoled into supporting a company that they clearly have some personal beef with...

Edited June 6, 2012 by Dcubed

[Hogge]

I've insisted that they weren't truly going to be next gen, but it was obvious any way.

 

The Wii, despite being significantly behind, still managed to sell and for quite a while the weakest but cheapest console sells the most. I doubt Nintendo will stray too far from that unless the Wii U bites them on the ass.

 

Nintendo are launching the Wii U because they have realised that without the core gamers, a console will fail, as the original Wii has started to do. If the Wii U isn't next gen, then that will bite them in the ass.

[Agent Gibbs]

I doubt Nintendo are a generation down at all, as i just cannot see the PS4/720 being anymore/much more powerful than the wii U!

 

If the WiiU is as powerful as a current Mid Range PC, then this has been chosen for its affordability and power, MS and SONY are surely going to do exactly the same!

 

The PS3 suffered by being so ridiculously over powered and OVER PRICED, so Sony will not do that again

MS got out first and made a console that was very powerful and affordable (like the WiiU) so will follow suit this gen

 

The only leaps they will gain is by price drops in components over the time they take to launch, so if anything they might have the next chipsets up from the WiiU, and have s negligible increase in power (since thats what most people judge consoles on these days).

 

Then there is development costs, current gen games can have the same costs as most Hollywood Movies these days, and that is pushing it.

 

People seem to be expecting the next PlayStation and Xbox to have the same sort of leap we saw to this generation, a level of graphics that is almost photo realistic, and quite frankly anyone who expects that is a complete and utter idiot

 

Firstly the console would need to have the same or greater power than current high end pc's, so it would cost about £1000 minimum per console, then there's development costs - Waterwold sized budgets for every game, which is unsustainable and would see most developers doing bust the moment a game doesn't sell millions.

Its as unrealistic as expecting to walk to the moon!

 

With current trends on gaming moving towards mobile and indy development, purely for speed of delivery and cost of development, its easy to see the next gen consoles will be very similar, especially as multiplatform is now the best way to make money in the industry, first party games are becoming a thing of the past (there are far fewer than there were in the SNES /Genesis days)

 

so i go back to the original question, will Nintendo be a generation behind - Nope they are first to the party with about the right console spec, they just need the support of the third parties now and it could be this/next generations xbox

[Daft]

Where there's smoke there's fire.

 

 

Square, et al., are developing new engines for a reason. Also it's debatable whether development costs for next gen games would really bloat that much, this generation hardware will be structurally much more similar to the current gen than from the current gen to the previous.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Daft

[Cube]

The problem isn't that we know the Wii U is underpowerd (or will be compared to the next Xbox/PlayStation) - it's that Nintendo didn't show us anything to show otherwise. Even a tech demo would have worked.

[gaggle64]

I'll eat somebody else's hat if Tomb Raider & Watch Dogs still look that good when they come off the dev kit and onto my actual at-home Xbox. We're going back into the debate of whether Nintendo are right to deviate from simply having more power in their machines, and I still think the new ideas they're trying to bring are needed. The strategy of marrying new ideas to current tech is proven, but they've got to use them fully. I'm looking at that Star Wars game which has "Next Gen" stamped all over it and all I can see is a prettier version of what we already have mountains of. It just can't go on.

 

My main concern right now is the absence of solid information on price. I'm guessing a touch-screen controller costs more then some pocket change but they'll need to flog that as low as they dare.

[dazzybee]

They SAID they want to cater for the core gamer (which they admitted the Wii didn't do) but then they presented and premiered the Wii U for families, kids and Nintendo fans (but even Nintendo fans were left hugely disappointed). They dropped a bollock. And they need to show a big game trailer as soon as poss, and blow us away with an amazing online service.

[Ganepark32]

Was going to come in and post the Square Enix real time tech demo from yesterday but Daft beat me to it.

 

Don't think it's a case of being a generation behind. I think it's more a question of whether they've (i.e. Nintendo) created hardware which falls in line with what is available and what will come in the next generation and beyond. Developers will want to offset higher production costs by bringing their games to as many platforms as possible and by having hardware following a similar architecture, even if it is underpowered compared to say the PS4 and 720 when they come about, scalability won't be an issue and in fact would probably benefit seeing as they'll still be able to use all of the assets and art they've created but at a lower cost of development, presumably.

 

Looking at these games, though, if Ubisoft are saying Watch_Dogs is coming to 360 and PS3 then the Wii U will get it and probably at a slightly higher resolution. Star Wars 1313, I'd be dubious that the Wii U would be able to run the game that they showed off if those rumoured specs are correct, at least in terms of that level of quality. Same with the Square Enix tech.

 

But as I said, as long as the architecture is following a similar pattern to the current consoles/PC then it's a matter of scalability of the games and whether scaling it down to fit the Wii U's architecture (or scaling it up from the 360 as seems to be what some of the third party rumours are suggesting that's happening with ports) is possible.

 

edit: should also say, there's a picture doing the rounds on the internet from E3 showing a sign for Tomb Raider which says that it's coming to the Wii U as well as PS3 and 360 so that level of visual fidelity appears to be coming to the Wii U pretty early on. Not confirmed if it's real or not so we'll have to see.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Ganepark32

[Retro_Link]

OK, so if the specs are indicating that the Wii U is indeed powerful enough to run Watch Dogs & Star Wars 1313 as they were demoed/to the level intended, and not downgraded (as they will have to be for the current 360/PS3), that's something Nintendo should have shouted from the rooftops about!

 

I can't help but wonder though if the games the Wii U is getting is telling us something though...

 

We're getting Mass Effect 3, Batman AC and Assassins Creed III, where what we should really be getting/hoping to see is Tomb Raider, Far Cry and Splinter Cell.

 

Is there a reason for this?

Is it because Dev Kits came in too late to these developers?

 

... And if that's the case, what games are Nintendo going to use to fill the gaps that those games will leave in the Wii U calender when they are released? Because they're all BIG games that make up significant sales of the year.

[Mandalore]

Just seeing Nintendo games in glorious HD, I don't really care what the competition is doing.

[Diageo]

Hey Assassin's Creed III looks amazing. It's a new game, not like Batman AC and ME 3.

[Dcubed]

Where there's smoke there's fire.

 

 

Square, et al., are developing new engines for a reason. Also it's debatable whether development costs for next gen games would really bloat that much, this generation hardware will be structurally much more similar to the current gen than from the current gen to the previous.

 

I'm still waiting for FF8 PS2 and FF7 PS3...

[Retro_Link]

Hey Assassin's Creed III looks amazing. It's a new game, not like Batman AC and ME 3.

There are a couple of examples yes, ACIII and Aliens is another, but I would argue that neither of these look as good as The Last of Us, Splinter Cell and Tomb Raider.

 

However, my main point is with the games we saw that take that next step, Watch Dogs and Star Wars.

 

Of course the PS4/720 won't be the same kind of step up as we saw this generation, but they'll make the necessary step to be able to play the PC version of those games, as they were shown at E3.

 

So is Nintendo in the same position to be able to run the PC versions of those games, and if so, man should they have told us that!!

 

I just wish we knew more about the console and could be confident in its future. If they've missed the boat to play these in terms of specs then they're in trouble. Alternatively if they truely are first out of the blocks then great!

[Diageo]

Why would they show games for consoles that aren't even announced yet? At worse these games will be PC only and by the time the new generation of consoles rolls in these games will be 2 years old and we'll be getting their sequels on the next machine.

[Daft]

I'm still waiting for FF8 PS2 and FF7 PS3...

 

I'm still waiting to play my bloody copy of FF7 on my Vita.

 

Sooooooon,

[Dcubed]

 

I'm still waiting to play my bloody copy of FF7 on my Vita.

 

Sooooooon,

 

You and me both buddy. I need something other than Monster Hunter Freedom Unite to play on the damn thing!