Ville Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Whilst I would agree that Nintendo need some 'HD Selects' in their portfolio, I really don't really want them to come at the expense of new titles; whilst some may then argue that they can simply be outsourced it comes at a risk of new artists destroying the original style of the game. Its a difficult balance. This. Yes, it's nice that people can have access to games they've never played before, but this should be more of a side project than the actual point of your game line-up. I mean I want new Wind Wakers, new Majora's Masks, new Star Fox games! Part of why the 3DS has little interest for me is just this: Oot and SF? I've already beat them multiple times, why would I buy them again? There's a limit how many times you can milk your old games, and Nintendo is starting to be a bit too close to it... Just consider the old days: you've got A link to the past. Then comes OoT, fucking awesome! : o Then comes Majora's Mask, even more awesome! Then you have Wind Waker, brilliant. Oracle of Ages / Seasons, Mnish Cap, solid games. All the time something new. Yes, there were reruns as well, i.e. Zelda 1-3 on GBA, but they were advertised more like as being just side projects, "now also available on GBA!". Now, these reruns are hyped like any totally new game would be, "guess what we've got for you, OoT for the millionth time, isn't that awesome?" No. A brand new 3DS Zelda, now that would be awesome. And Star Fox, wow...why create a remake, when you could make a new awesome Star Fox instead? : o And Mario Tennis, and Pikmin, and... In short, new games please.
Cube Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 As Ocarina of Time 3D showed, these projects can be done faithfully by other developers. A company called 4J faithfully ported improved versions Rare's games to the XBLA with zero problems.
pratty Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 As Ocarina of Time 3D showed, these projects can be done faithfully by other developers. The problem for me is that when a game has to be essentially "remade" it takes a lot of work whoever does it, so Nintendo still have to be selective about which titles they makeover. Which means Ocarina gets the makeover treatment and is essentially preserved for the next generation, but a game like Majora's Mask (comfortably Ocarina's equal in my opinion) isn't. Of course some is better than none, but I think all Nintendo's classics deserve HD preservation and Nintendo might leaves fans of certain games disappointed if they miss any out. It might have to be all or nothing.
Grazza Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 Oh yeah, any Virtual Console releases have got to be HD. It's an HD console that will be played on HDTVs... I won't buy anything SD. I kept my GameCube (fully aware that it might be the last-ever good Nintendo console), so I've no need to download Wind Waker in SD. HD though? Bring it on. It may be unfashionable, but I'll say it again - HD is one of the most important things in gaming. I know people don't want to be graphics whores, and they like to say gameplay is more important (which it is), but ever since I strained to see the blurry depiction of Hyrule in Ocarina of Time on the N64, I've considered it very important that a game looks sharp. So, 1080p for N64/GameCube games is a must, ideally running at 60fps (framerate is also very important). Even better would be if they go back to the original textures and improve them for the current generation.
Sheikah Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Yeah, Ville and david.dakota you got pretty much the wrong end of the stick on HD remakes. They're hardly going to have the in-house talent spend their time making sharper textures for remakes; it's left to outside companies in most cases. And because people buy the games, that more than pays off the cost of having people do the work for you. Having HD is not about being a graphics whore, it's about games not looking unpleasant (as they do on the Wii) on larger HDTVs (which almost all new TVs these days people buy these days are). HD should really be a standard, I found it disappointing when PS2 non-remakes started to be released on the PSN store.
Beverage Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 My guess of the definition of 'graphic whore' is; merely wanting all games to merely look goodness-gracious-me awesome with not much focus on anything else. To be fair to graphc whores, though, I would say that us consumers use our own hard-earned money to pay for products that has evident hard-work put into it so if the game has not much focus on anything else (and the game is still not too bad) then if at least better visuals would provide a better experience (I'll explain "better experience" later) - giving the consumer the most out of their money - then by all means make us consumers be able to use our video games with our HD TV's! I'm going to quote @Ronnie from another thread which he posted quite some time ago but it relates to this 'graphic whore' topic. Ronnie was preaching that there are far more important things to focus on before focusing on the graphics, which I do agree with. His post is as follows: I don't pretend to know what would be the best course of action for Nintendo, but if I had to make some suggestions, I'd say the series needs to get back to what makes Zelda games special, the three intangibles: exploration, magic, and a sense of adventure. SS took a huge step backwards in that regard. Take a risk, ditch the hand-holding, bring back elements that make the game world feel alive (NPC routines, receiving mail in a bouncing post-box, reading books in the library after you've pushed them off the top shelf, changing the times of day, using music as a gameplay mechanic and not tacked on pointlessly like TP and SS), bring the MAGIC back into Zelda, both figuratively and literally, develop the mythology and give us something to wrap our head around storyline-wise. Mix up the gameplay and not have it so rigid. I still don't believe Skyward Sword altered the traditional Zelda flow in the slightest, in fact I think it was even more restricted and predictable than previous games, at least until the later bits near the end. Why not take a risk like the moon crashing down, or being thrust straight into the action on a stormy night or in a high speed pursuit, or having a sleeping Wind Fish in a giant egg on a hilltop needing to be awoken, or Link being fired out of a cannon on a pirate ship, storming a fortress to rescue his sister. Skyward Sword and especially Twilight Princess felt lifeless in comparison, in a paint-by-numbers kind of way. I'm a little useless at putting coherent impressions and opinions into words but hopefully the above makes a little sense. Just the ramblings of one Zelda fan, but having been playing for the last 25 years I do have a lot of emotional baggage I guess, as I'm sure most of us on here do as well :-) Now, when you look at it, all these things that Ronnie was talking about all fits under any one catergory - creativity/imagination/effort/enthusiasm/expression. Smash all of those words into one and what do you get? Art. That's what the Nintendo and Zelda Charm is. Not sure about any of you, but to me, the reason why Nintendo games don't seem so great nowadays is because they are using minimum art because they don't have to - people buy and get a fix any old software thus allowing Nintendo to milk your nipples' dry. But sticking to Zelda, Ronnie was mainly talking about three things: Magic, exploration and a sense of adventure - all of which fit under the catergory of art. If maximum effort was put in from start to finish in all aspects of the game then of course it'd be a masterpiece but one'd need a hell of a lot of creativity and imagination to apply these things for every game within a series while also making each installment unique and different. One'd have to be a true genius for that, which now I have developed the eyes though age I can see Nintendo isn't a true genius of art but a top player of hustle So to accept Zelda games the way that they are and will forever be, which is still very good, I'd love to see as much effort and enthusiasm as possible - including the visuals. But I'd just like to point out that visuals are not merely to make things 'look prettier', they aid art in numerous amounts of ways. Firstly, good graphics is art in itself! I won't even start explaining what makes drawing and animation magnificent pieces of art since there's way too much to explain, the sky is the limit with those pieces of art. Basically, if a simplistic style was used with those arts, you could put in bags of efforet, creativity, imaginatioin, effort and enthusiasm to keep the subject fun, lively, attractive, captivating and a bunch of other words which desrcibes an outcome of superb art. But in say, Zelda, splendid graphics (maybe even accompanied by high-end voice acting and top quality music) would convey all emotions (ah, character animations would need to be on top form too!) thus making the captivating story much more compelling. We all expect Zelda (and obviously games in genreal) to be creative, like random things happening at random times blah blah blah but that's just all depends on how much effort Nintendo (or any game dev) puts into a game I'm afraid. I honestly truly believe that utilizing the bleeding technology that is available these days to make outstanding use out of the visuals would be a sweet motivator to form the best piece of art. Just think about drawing a picture, drawing a simple picture you're probably going to keep it short and sweet. But putting maximum detail even in the most simplest of pictures, ideas are just going to keep coming into your mind and you're not going to be able to resist adding that extra detail on the page. In games, detail could be in the form of anything, not just visuals (detail = ideas in general).
dazzybee Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Personally I'd prefer HD collection packs of games the wii missed. Batman pack with both GOTY editions. Bioshock pack. Assassins Creed (all 4 games (not 3 obviously). Portal 1 + 2. Stuff like that. Surely developers could knock them up and provide a ridiculous launch line up of incredible AAA games. Tthere'll be loads of Wii owners who upgrade who haven't played them so why not. If they can be arced to throw in some nice screen stuff or even just to be able to play it on the screen in bed would be an incredible incentive for people to play through them again.
darksnowman Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Donkey....Kong....Country.....HD.....you say? I wanted to say it but that would have been predictable. :p The DKC Trilogy spruced up in HD would be like... the end of gaming. I could retire to a desert island and replay the trilogy for the rest of my days.
Dcubed Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Personally I'd prefer HD collection packs of games the wii missed. Batman pack with both GOTY editions. Bioshock pack. Assassins Creed (all 4 games (not 3 obviously). Portal 1 + 2. Stuff like that. Surely developers could knock them up and provide a ridiculous launch line up of incredible AAA games. Tthere'll be loads of Wii owners who upgrade who haven't played them so why not. If they can be arced to throw in some nice screen stuff or even just to be able to play it on the screen in bed would be an incredible incentive for people to play through them again. Why not? I'd love to be able to play my PS360 games in HD!
Fused King Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I must say, all this talk about HD-graphics has made me remember an important point for me: Not noticing the jaggies/'ugliness' whilst playing a game. Skyward Sword would be a good example, for when I first popped that disc in and I got to the actual hands-on section on my HDTV, I was appalled. I said to myself: 'NINTENDO, seriously, roll on that WiiU because there's so much jagginess on my TV that I could place thousands of Pikmin on each one.' But then you start playing the game, things get into motion and your eyes start to adjust, and suddenly, things don't look as ugly anymore. Granted, one of the things I like to do in most games is just take a look around with the camera whilst standing still, then, usually the jaggies start to return. So, whilst HD-graphics are nice, my eyes usually adjust to a game and make me not see the jagginess and whatnot.
dazzybee Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Why not? I'd love to be able to play my PS360 games in HD! Huh?!?! Did you even read my post?!
-Dem0- Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Granted, one of the things I like to do in most games is just take a look around with the camera whilst standing still I'm not alone.
david.dakota Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Yeah, Ville and david.dakota you got pretty much the wrong end of the stick on HD remakes. They're hardly going to have the in-house talent spend their time making sharper textures for remakes; it's left to outside companies in most cases. And because people buy the games, that more than pays off the cost of having people do the work for you. Having HD is not about being a graphics whore, it's about games not looking unpleasant (as they do on the Wii) on larger HDTVs (which almost all new TVs these days people buy these days are). HD should really be a standard, I found it disappointing when PS2 non-remakes started to be released on the PSN store. I don't think I did get the wrong end of the stick at all. My argument is, regardless of what code house remakes a game, its all man hours and comes at a cost. Or is that cash and development talent better spent put towards a brand new game? A decent HDTV will have decent upscaling capabilities; my Gamecube and Wii games look pretty darn reasonable blown up to 42". Dolphin Emulator goes one better and proves that re-releases are simply not necessary; I'd be quite happy to see some decent video processing for archive titles in WiiU, but actual remakes simply for the sake of saying "look its HD now" seems rather pointless. For the record though, I will be buying ICO and Shadow of the Colossus from PSN. Personally I'd prefer HD collection packs of games the wii missed. Batman pack with both GOTY editions. Bioshock pack. Assassins Creed (all 4 games (not 3 obviously). Portal 1 + 2. Stuff like that. Surely developers could knock them up and provide a ridiculous launch line up of incredible AAA games. Tthere'll be loads of Wii owners who upgrade who haven't played them so why not. Although I have caught up with many of this generations classics, I'd be happy to see these on the Nintendo platform - perhaps even in 1080p .
dazzybee Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Yeah, not for me personally. But just generally for the machine. i really want GTAV on the machine but I doubt I'd buy it. I have a sneaky feeling that the Wii U could be my most expensive console launch ever...
Ville Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I don't think I did get the wrong end of the stick at all. My argument is, regardless of what code house remakes a game, its all man hours and comes at a cost. Or is that cash and development talent better spent put towards a brand new game? Exactly. Also, the advertising costs money too, especially when these games are hyped more and more nowadays. I'd rather they had a full line-up of new titles, and just a short mention of any possible remakes / re-releases. Oh yeah, and then we're also releasing this game again, hurray.
Fused King Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I'm not alone. I'm sure lots of gamers do this. Just sitting back with some tea, and playing with the camera can leave you in awe in certain games. And if you don't do it during Journey you have no soul.
Beverage Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 And if you don't do it during Journey you have no soul. My King, you made a common error. Is not the 'soul' the container for the active force (or spirit) which be inside of uz? i.e "There was not a soul in sight" and "That beautiful melody uplifts my joyous spirit" Sorry everymember and everyguest for this casual talk!
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I'm not too keen on these HD Collections. Don't really care if they handled elsewhere (as Ocarina of Time 3D was). They don't help the medium of gaming push forward, whereas new games will. We are starved of racers on Nintendo systems. We are starved of fighters, as all there is on the Wii is Brawl and Tatsunoko vs Capcom. We are starved of tactical strategy games such as Advance Wars, as there isn't anything like a Command and Conquer style game on the Wii, which I've been waiting a long time for. I would much rather we got those than a HD collection of games we've already played and love already. Ocarina of Time is brilliant, but I've played through it so many times that I know it better than my own family. Would I want to play that in HD? What about the games that never made it to our shores? There's a case for them. Obviously this is just my opinion and many will think differently. But, there are so many gaps on Nintendo systems...so many. Plugging them with HD re-releases is not the answer, I don't think. These are gaps that need filling with quality games in many genres, be it from Nintendo themselves or from a third party.
Fused King Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 We are starved of racers on Nintendo systems. We are starved of fighters, as all there is on the Wii is Brawl and Tatsunoko vs Capcom. We are starved of tactical strategy games such as Advance Wars, as there isn't anything like a Command and Conquer style game on the Wii, which I've been waiting a long time for. I'll tell you what we're starved of: New genres and a mix of genres! Imagine something like people playing Mario Kart online and, at the same time, Smashers are fighting on a Mario Kart stage which become obstacles for the Mario Karters Or an RTS kind of game in which one guy controls the units, and the other can warp between squadrons and get a First Person View of the action and fight.
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I'll tell you what we're starved of: New genres and a mix of genres! Imagine something like people playing Mario Kart online and, at the same time, Smashers are fighting on a Mario Kart stage which become obstacles for the Mario Karters Or an RTS kind of game in which one guy controls the units, and the other can warp between squadrons and get a First Person View of the action and fight. That second idea is what Batallion Wars is, right? It's a great game. Probably would be easier to play using the WiiU's Pad. That first idea is interesting. Sure would be a hell of a mind fuck. We need another type of racer on the Wii. I was hoping that ExciteTruck would set a precedent and there would be more racers of a similar type, considering that the controls were nailed so well. But, nobody bothered.
Hero-of-Time Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I would much rather we got those than a HD collection of games we've already played and love already. Ocarina of Time is brilliant, but I've played through it so many times that I know it better than my own family. Would I want to play that in HD? What about the games that never made it to our shores? There's a case for them. Yes, but many people haven't. There's a whole generation that has never played through such classic games and these re-release give them the opportunity to do so, without having to track another console down on ebay. I can totally see what you are getting at, but at the end of the day if the HD releases are being outsourced and made by other people, which 99% of them do, then I don't see any harm in it. It's not as if they would be taking focus away from the AAA teams.
Grazza Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I think there's a big difference between remakes and HD versions. Anything that runs through the Dolphin emulator surely can't be considered a remake because, as I understand it, it's "just" improving the content that is already on the original disc. (By the way, does it improve textures? If so, how?) As such, I'm pretty sure most people would be happy if Virtual Console games looked as good as that. A remake requires a lot of effort. For instance, Ocarina of Time uses much-improved polygonal models. Naturally, only certain games can be selected for full remakes, but I don't see a problem with this. I suspect Grezzo developing Ocarina of Time 3D didn't even take 1% development time off the first proper 3DS Zelda. It also was a good way of providing the 3DS with an early must-have title. With all this in mind, I am 100% in favour of both remakes and HD versions.
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