Hamishmash Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 McDonalds Happy Meals used to come for boys AND girls and the toys would be separate. I remember specifically asking if I could have the girls toys... I once got an awesome hot-air balloon with a fucking HORSE inside it, which I found far more creative and interesting then a bloody miniature car. This little feminist is awesome. When have you ever been known to go against your gender stereotype, as a kid. And do you think its right to dress babies in blue for boys, pink for girls? Some parents are going so far as to not reveal the gender of their babies until they decide when they're older. Is this a good idea, or going too far? (Also, I've changed to Rosalina these days. She's my queen of space. )
Coolness Bears Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I always play as a woman in games. It only gets awkward in MMO's when I got chatted up by some Italian guy. People annoy me because they think it is odd to have Hello Kitty headphones. Most of my stuff is pink. Pink headphones. Phone case. 3DS holder iPod Notepad. etc. It's not even my favourite colour but people are geniunely confused as to why I should like it!? It's just a colour. My 3rd favourite at that.
Diageo Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 When I used to play Mario Party with my friends I used to always play as Daisy. I can't remember why. Most games I play as a guy. Sometimes on MMOs I play as a girl for the free stuff.
Daft Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Gender isn't binary and on top of that I can't comment on going against a gender stereotype because I don't think of myself as 'not'-something. Do I agree with dressing girls in pink and boys in blue? Well, that's our culture. Other cultures don't view gender as a binary. The Hijra in South Asia are viewed as a 'third' gender, for example. What does this tell me? Stop trying to label and class things, that's the only way gender will be allowed to be as fluid as it really is. That girl is pretty on it, though. Edited December 28, 2011 by Daft
Goafer Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 If given a choice, I always pick a guy in games. Mainly because I'm male and I like the character to be as close to myself (or at least the perfect version of myself) as possible. As far as the rest of the stuff goes: Meh. I was raised on a diet of toy cars and various other boys toys. I'm still obsessed with cars to this day (well, I have 3 of them!) Has it made me even slightly unhappy? No. So it doesn't matter to me. But yeah, each to their own or whatever. As long as the kid is happy, I don't really see the importance of what toy they're playing with.
chairdriver Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I used to be much more likely to pick a female character in video games. Sometimes because I thought they were just cooler. I always had Cloud, Tifa and Yuffie as my main team, because I preferred them to any of the other characters. Sometimes because their move sets were preferable: often gender stereotyped such that they were swifter and more lithe in close combat. For example I always picked Ayame in Tenchu, because Rikimaru feels really slow and shite. I was always the woman in Pandemonium, because she could double jump, therefore was far greater. Saying that, I think it had some bit to do with my personality. I think I always felt "different", in the sense I knew I was a massive queer before it actually happened; I chose the woman because she was the next-best thing to the (near-always) non-existent [/insert term for a guy with a non-stereotypical brand of masculinity] {there's no concise word for what I mean}. The female character was often the person/gender/gender performance I felt closest to. In fact, I remember Zell from Final Fantasy VIII being the first male character I actively thought was cool / wanted to be. I can't specifically work out why in retrospect (he's kinda annoying), perhaps it was because he was bullied and a bit of an underdog, perhaps I just sensed that he was a bit like me? / shut up. Now it's more complex. I'm more-and-more leaning into a more masculine gender; having built muscle I feel a lot more physically empowered, and I feel perhaps this manifests itself into my personality. For example, now I'm far more likely to play as Cyclops or Iceman in X-Men Legends than I am Jean Grey. I'm more and more exploring different aspects of sex[uality], I'm developing relationships and learning more about how people work, and how being a human being works. I've had time to think more about feminist/trans politics etc. Also you feel sometimes female characters are just written in so guys can wank over them. There's a point in Dynasty Warriors playing as/against Xiao Qiao that you kinda think "No, this is just vapid objectification. She's wearing hotpants, speaks with the vocal intonation of a Japanese schoolgirl and she has no story nor reason to be here." --- Gendered toys can die. I really liked how my 8 year old sister got the following presents for Christmas: Harry Potter Lego A stylophone Tracksuit bottoms A bazooka that fires missiles 25 feet A (plastic) axe NOW Disney Hits CD Harry Hill's TV Burp DVDs Chocolate and a few other random shit things. Only the weapons are actively gendered, everything else she got was gender neutral, which is gr8 because it wasn't planned or co-ordinated, it just happened (and she's not even a tom-boy really or anything). Not a pink / "girl" thing in sight. I think blue for boys, pink for girls is a really reductive, stupid thing. Gender isn't that simple, and why would you aspire to have your kids be constrained by such an arbitrary thing? Edited December 28, 2011 by chairdriver
bryanee Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I always play as Zoey in Left 4 Dead. Male Shepard for the win. My two year old niece knows who Batman and the Tranformers are and will watch Batman: TAS and Justice League with me. Thinking about getting her some Transformer toys soon, I'm getting tired of playing with dolls and toy hoovers. It seems odd to me that the vast majority of girls toys seem to be releated to cleaning the house, cooking and taking care of kids. She has a toy iron, cooker, hoover, mop etc.
Shorty Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Male Shepard for the win. Say whaaa. This is the one game where I choose the female avatar because it actually improves the game. Male Shepard's voice acting is so empty...
Ramar Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 When I was a child I once bought a set of Lion King figures, strangely they were in the girls section at Toys R Us. Do I win?
Aneres11 Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Yeah no matter what game I play, I tend to go for the ladiez. You will always find me playing as Daisy on Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Mario party etc. On Double Dash I always used Peach and Daisy. My favourite Nintendo DS game was Super Princess Peach - partly because it was a rare gem that got overlooked, and partly coz it was amazing that Peach had her own game for a change. Super Princess Peach 2 in 3d now please Nintendo! I also had an obsession with She-Ra when I was little. Watch and tell me she is not the greatest thing ever?! Back to Hamishmash's original question though with pink for girls, blue for boys, I personally don't see a problem with that. In my eyes a new born baby could be a boy or a girl - there are no distinguishing features to tell otherwise (aside from the obvious), so the colour simply represents the gender. I wouldn't see the point in dressing my baby boy in pink for instance, only for potential onlookers to say - whats her name? Or, how old is she? You'd be tired of correcting them.
The Bard Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I always found it weird how boys got all the cool shit like superheroes, and girls got saddled with all that domesticity crap. You know, like tea sets and coffee trays and bullshit. Least the marketing companies could do is give em something that'll be useful in future. Y'know, like lingerie.
Jav_NE Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) There's a definite homophobia to parenting at a young age. It's as if they dont want to be responsibile for turning their child gay, like it would be all their fault and they would have themselves to blame blah blah blah. Like it makes any difference though - i dont think playing with girls toys or pink stuff will turn a boy gay, or likewise the otherway round for girls, it may make them more in touch with their feminine/male side, but as for sexual preference, i dont think it would decide that. I have to admit though, i didn't like pink stuff when i was younger. Maybe because that message was drilled into me that it was for girls, but a few years ago i bought my first pink shirt (well, salmon really, as Ross Gellar would say), and now it's one of my favourites. People now say pink is for men comfortable with their sexuality, or pink is for confident guys. I say whatever, it looks nice is all. All this pink talk reminds me of... Edited December 28, 2011 by Jav_NE
The Bard Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I remember all my teenage years were spent trying to touch pink.
Hamishmash Posted December 28, 2011 Author Posted December 28, 2011 Also you feel sometimes female characters are just written in so guys can wank over them. There's a point in Dynasty Warriors playing as/against Xiao Qiao that you kinda think "No, this is just vapid objectification. She's wearing hotpants, speaks with the vocal intonation of a Japanese schoolgirl and she has no story nor reason to be here." I get instantly disappointed in a game when this happens. Like I love Samus, think she's awesome, but I prefer how she looked in Metroid Prime 1. She had a realistically... what's the word... bland face. She just looked like a woman who wore a power suit for 24 hours. Now she's a skin-tight-suit wearing mega-hottie and it just doesn't gel well. She's meant to be muscular, tough... not a playboy model. And Jade from Beyond Good and Evil. I loved her, thought she was a fantastic step forward. Then they got her to "pose" for FHM and it all went a bit down hill. Obviously the argument goes the other way, Street Fighter characters for example, are so muscular, they're just unrealistic depictions of beauty. But to be honest... as anyone REALLY drooled over how hot E. Honda is? Where as all the female characters are super skinny with massive boobs. The worst for this is Soul Calibur I think... And yeah... there are no positive LGBT characters in gaming. Unless you count Birdo. But that's a different matter. And also yes, gender isn't binary. Sex is biological, gender is cultural/social. If I have a kid I'm gonna tell people "it's a baby boy/ baby girl" but I'm not going to really shove it down the kid's throat what gender they are. Gender isn't, or perhaps SHOULDN'T, be seen as important in this day and age.
Paj! Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 We're all pink inside. --- When I was younger I was allowed to play with whatever I wanted. I had a collection of both 'boy' toys AND 'girl' toys, because my parents didn't give a shit and let me play with what I felt like. I had as many Batman figures as I did Barbies/My Little ponies probably! And I remember I was obsessed with Disney princesses. But at a certain point I lost interest completely in that and kept my interest in Batman/super heroes and the associated toys, which carried on I guess...until today? I mean I still play Heroclix (even if I've stopped collecting) casually. But yeah I 'grew out' of actually playing with 'girls toys' but that was because I just naturally pursued what I turned out preferring playing with.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I've never been the most masculine guy in the world, so I've always hated gender stereotypes. I'm loving the whole brony (My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic) subculture - it appears a universal outlet for guys wanting to express their soft/feminine side has finally emerged.
bob Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I really liked how my 8 year old sister got the following presents for Christmas: Harry Potter Lego A stylophone Tracksuit bottoms A bazooka that fires missiles 25 feet A (plastic) axe NOW Disney Hits CD Harry Hill's TV Burp DVDs Chocolate I think your sister might be the coolest 8 year old in the country. Well apart from the tracksuit bottoms...
gaggle64 Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I've never really suffered directly from the gender divide but there are still few things I hate more in this world - because it's so blatantly commercial, because it flies so obviously in the face of reality and because it seems to be mostly designed to feed the prejudices of idiots. It's really interesting when you read back and find the pink/blue trope doesn't occur until the early 50s. I also feel like it's something the clearly carries through into the adult world (men = football, women = yoghurt) and leads to the hideous sexualisation of women in media, assuming they're even ever portrayed. Say whaaa. This is the one game where I choose the female avatar because it actually improves the game. Male Shepard's voice acting is so empty... Female Shep is the superior option but I think Male Shep's become a bit underrated too. Which reminds me - on the subject of gender relations - the person (I'm guessing male) who designed this needs to be castrated. Slowly and painfully. The empress of all information in the galaxy folks.
bryanee Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Say whaaa. This is the one game where I choose the female avatar because it actually improves the game. Male Shepard's voice acting is so empty... Do not agree, crazy foo :P
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Tangentially related: I don't actually have a problem with sexualisation of women in media as long as men get equal treatment. It's like with movies - sometimes they should just be exaggerated and fun.
Magnus Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 But to be honest... as anyone REALLY drooled over how hot E. Honda is? Yes. This is the internet. The answer is always yes. I recently read a blog post about the sexualization of women in comic books, and the writer got so many responses from men about how men are also depicted with ideal bodies in comic books and how that's totally unfair too, that she eventually had to write a follow-up blog post about how it's not really the same thing. Yes, Batman sure is ripped and all, but that's more of a power fantasy for male readers than it is a sexual fantasy for female readers. Batman doesn't usually stand around in suggestive poses with his penis half-covered, talking about how hot sex is. I think the same goes for most characters in fighters/video games in general. ... What were we talking about again? Oh, right - Peach. I always used Peach in Super Mario Bros. 2, but that was only because she could float.
Aimless Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I recently read a blog post about the sexualization of women in comic books, and the writer got so many responses from men about how men are also depicted with ideal bodies in comic books and how that's totally unfair too, that she eventually had to write a follow-up blog post about how it's not really the same thing. Yes, Batman sure is ripped and all, but that's more of a power fantasy for male readers than it is a sexual fantasy for female readers. Batman doesn't usually stand around in suggestive poses with his penis half-covered, talking about how hot sex is. It is kind of the same thing, though, at least in terms of physical appearance. Like it or not a lot of women see attractiveness as empowerment. In that sense both sexes are idealised according to their respective exaggerated ideals, as born of social convention; they are portrayed differently but for the same reason. I'm sure things will change when new generations grow up in a generally more gender neutral society, but if you plonk a man and a woman in front a character creator and ask them to make one of each gender, the final products won't be that divergent. As for my childhood, a lot of my toys were hand-me-downs. I mainly played with Lego which should be standard issue for any parent, no matter what your child.
Jonnas Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Me, I never liked the "girl toys", but I'm pretty sure marketing never had anything to do with it. I never saw the appeal in having my toys enact day-to-day lives or soap opera dramas (because that's what most stereotypical girl toys are for). Sure, there's also the ponies and the fairies, and the Polly Pocket toys looked interesting and really well made, but I never liked fairies, either, and every one of those toys focused on something similar. However, I remember the "Little Pony" cartoon (from what, the '90s?) being fun, and certain princess stories/cartoons also being good, when it was about the main character actually doing something interesting. On the other side of the issue, I never liked the Action Men and race cars that were marketed towards boys, either. Every time McDonalds had "boy toys" being one of those two (very frequently, actually), we'd just ask for two "girl" Happy Meals, so my sister could have two toys she actually enjoyed (and I recall vice-versa happening a few times, too). I even remember one time where the "girl toy" wasn't girly at all, they just wanted an alternative for the main Action Men they were offering. As a small kid, plasticine, legos, k'nex and other "gender-neutral" toys and activities (which includes the comic books I read) were always more interesting, and those were my own tastes. Sure, I also liked Power Rangers, and Dragonball, and Beast Wars (animals turning into dudes in well-made toys were really fun to play with), which would fit the "boy" stereotype, but I liked those toys because I also liked these shows in the first place. The way I see it, if a kid grows up with this stereotypical view of gender, it's not because of all this marketing issue, but because of their upbringing, both at home and in society. The marketing issue stems from society's stereotypical views, not the other way around. Obviously the argument goes the other way, Street Fighter characters for example, are so muscular, they're just unrealistic depictions of beauty. But to be honest... as anyone REALLY drooled over how hot E. Honda is? Where as all the female characters are super skinny with massive boobs. The worst for this is Soul Calibur I think... Chun-li's an exception to this. She's either depicted with a realistic figure or with unusually muscular thighs But this is a general problem everywhere, and it's most obvious in movies where, if a woman is not the main character, but close enough to be in the main cast, she'll be inevitably used as sex-appeal, regardless of the actual theme of the movie (in the worst cases, such a female character will be added exclusively for this purpose). I saw a recent example in this Avengers poster: I mean, why does Black Widow (that's her, right?) need to show off her ass like that? It's so blatant.
Aimless Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 [Comic] I think you misunderstand, I'm not saying that Batman is designed to be sexy. Muscles are a power fantasy for some but so are gravity-defying breasts for others. Both are exaggerations of underlying social conventions that run far deeper than fantastical character design; the sex appeal of female characters is intrinsic yet almost incidental. Lara Croft is an excellent example. She has a very strong female following despite ostensibly being designed to cater to males visually. She appeals to both for different reasons but there is a shared, unrealistic ideal at the heart of it. An ideal that shifts alongside society as whole; the reboot's character design is so much better, which is hopefully a sign of the times. Personally I've never really been a fan of exaggerated characters. I find it to be transparent, distracting and lazy: people don't know/can't be arsed to make interesting characters so they rely on base visual shorthand instead. But I can understand why it works.
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