Jonnas Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Having to be dashing to roll, just seems like an unnecessary complication... why can't I just roll from walking (which isn't even walking it's fast enough).It's just cumbersome because you actually have to go further out of your way to distance yourself from the tree before you can turn around and dash-roll into it. You can roll as soon as you press A. It's how you break pots in homes But anyway, yeah like all these things I'll get used to it, it's just it seems like the controls have been made more complicated, which isn't really the way you expect games to progress! Not more complicated, just different. Things like throwing pots wasn't that intuitive the first time around, you're just been playing Zelda ever since you were a child/teen, and it's hardwired by now. Yeah I found the horizontal Skyward Strikes. It's not so much that it's bothersome, it's the fact that running and swinging your sword around as you go is just something fun to do, something that seems to have been needlessly removed, and in the process made the gameplay clunkier. A step back from Twilight Princess in that regard that I don't understand why they did it. My guess is that they wanted the slashes to be simple and clear-cut. Can't think of any other explanation. I also hope you can slash while you run in future games.
Retro_Link Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) I won't accept the roll thing. At the moment I'm having to think how to roll every time, when in the past it's just been a simple task. And in this case Roll really should just be waggle, but it can't be, because nunchuck waggle raises your shield. Honestly combat just feels like a waggle fest atm. I genuinely can't see how these controls are more approachable/user friendly/intuative. They're the reverse. Halfway into the First Temple now, and the camera is also bugging me. Something which I've always been able to rely on in a Zelda game just doesn't feel right. It's making lining up jumps etc... more difficult than it should be, and combined with the incredibly awkward jumping in this game, these are by far my biggest complaint. Also the game feels unfinished in places. Talking to the Goron I met in the woods for the first time... there was no music!?... He just spoke in silence for a minute or two. Very strange! Where was the Goron theme, or environment theme. Oh and my shield just broke. Happy days! Am enjoying the visuals/environments and what [little] more I've seen of the story etc... though. Edited May 10, 2012 by Retro_Link
Shorty Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 As someone who was, prior to release of this game, immensely sceptical about a Zelda game which circles around various new and somewhat gimmicky control methods - only to then decide that actually I loved almost everything about the controls - I'm sure you will get used to it. Honestly who rolls from a standing start anyway? I imagine this "oversight" occurred because they didn't realise anyone was doing this. This game has made an effort to replace the roll with sprinting, because they realised everyone somersaulted all the way across Hyrule Field, which wasn't what the roll was put in for. How can you have trouble with the camera and jumping? It's Zelda, you don't need to line up your jumps, just run and the AI does the hard work! Try to forget about these niggles don't let them hamper a stunning game.
Retro_Link Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 The AI's not doing it though... for example... there are 2 vines in the first temple alongside 2 Skulltula's, the stiff autojump/lame camera has at time seen me missing these vines and falling in the water. Anyway, yeah I'm sure these niggles will work themselves out. But really, why can't you centre the camera properly, instead of having to enter 'combat stance' to centre it. When you roll into a tree though, you more often than not do that from a standing roll or a short distance away from the tree. But having to do it from sprint which gives you an innitial kick of speed means you have to allow yourself space. It's just not fluid, but again maybe it's just a case of adapting. I will say Sprint is appreciated though and actually pretty cool... albeit ruined [i'm hoping just for now] by Stamina. Honestly what bollocks. I still don't really understand what all these seats are for? because they're never around when you need them, and your stamina recovers quick enough anyway than having to go through the sitting process. OK, time to crack on with the rest of the first temple.
Retro_Link Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) How does this thread work? Should I spoiler tag everything, or is it pretty safe to assume everyones played it? OK was it me or was Ghirahim hard [for an opening boss battle]? Was his charge avoidable once he'd started it?... other than maybe using a shield which I'd broken by this point. In the end I found that if you run towards him and hit him he wouldn't do it. I'm not entirely sure how I beat him in the end I just kept doing this once I found it worked, run and hit. Think I'm close to entering the second temple now, just got 2 more pieces of the key to find. I was pretty intrigued when I got the first stone tablet and it looked like it was one of four... I actually thought the game was going to break with tradition and throw up 4 'temples' in the first part of the game, as was interested what the fourth might be!!... ... only to get the second tablet and find that it only leaves room for one more! Edited May 10, 2012 by Retro_Link
nekunando Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 I was pretty intrigued when I got the first stone tablet and it looked like it was one of four... I actually thought the game was going to break with tradition and throw up 4 'temples' in the first part of the game, as was interested what the fourth might be!!... ... only to get the second tablet and find that it only leaves room for one more! I was thinking exactly the same thing..
MoogleViper Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Jumping between objects is incredible stiff, and thus simple tasks like crossing those 4 rocks over the river on Skyloft has resulted in me falling in the water Dude... ...are you retarded?
Jonnas Posted May 10, 2012 Posted May 10, 2012 Halfway into the First Temple now, and the camera is also bugging me. Something which I've always been able to rely on in a Zelda game just doesn't feel right. It's making lining up jumps etc... more difficult than it should be, and combined with the incredibly awkward jumping in this game, these are by far my biggest complaint. (...) But really, why can't you centre the camera properly, instead of having to enter 'combat stance' to centre it. I seriously do not get those two complaints. Jumps are exactly like they were in previous Zeldas, and the camera might be troublesome if you're using Z-Target instinctively to turn around, but that should not get worse in cramped dungeons (Quite the opposite). (Also, not to be pedantic, but Z-Target to recenter the camera was also "entering combat mode" :p) Also the game feels unfinished in places. Talking to the Goron I met in the woods for the first time... there was no music!?... He just spoke in silence for a minute or two. Very strange! Where was the Goron theme, or environment theme. Oh and my shield just broke. Happy days! That particular area is silent in general. It's supposed to be a soothing clearing of sorts. (Learn to time your bashes properly! And buy Shield Potions while you're at it) I will say Sprint is appreciated though and actually pretty cool... albeit ruined [i'm hoping just for now] by Stamina. Honestly what bollocks. The Stamina meter stops you from spamming spin attacks. Limiting your sprinting ability is also needed for certain areas of the game, and makes some other parts more challenging (though you can buy Stamina potions later on). How does this thread work? Should I spoiler tag everything, or is it pretty safe to assume everyones played it? OK was it me or was Ghirahim hard [for an opening boss battle]? Was his charge avoidable once he'd started it?... other than maybe using a shield which I'd broken by this point. In the end I found that if you run towards him and hit him he wouldn't do it. I'm not entirely sure how I beat him in the end I just kept doing this once I found it worked, run and hit. You do well in spoiler tagging, yes. We thought everyone had played it, but then you came around. You won't be the last one, either. Yes, it is hard. There's no puzzle, only a straight up swordfight with a difficult enemy. He even stole my sword, the first time I played it. It's awesome. You can avoid the dash, but it takes good timing. Or good reflexes to start sprinting in the opposite direction in time. The Shield is the most reliable way to stop it, though. I genuinely can't see how these controls are more approachable/user friendly/intuative. They're the reverse. You've been playing Zelda ever since you were a young'un. The old controls are hardwired into you. The waggle-fest you're doing right now is no more different than button-mashing, which we all did, the first time we played OoT. (SS happens to be more accessible for those who don't play games often, but that's irrelevant. Of course longtime fans think traditional controls are more intuitive :p)
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I've got my own complaints with the game. But, the ones you are raising @Retro_Link are not really all that bad. In fact, some of them are actual positives. The controls add a totally different dimension to the game...plus rolling bombs is satisfying as hell. The complaint about rolling seems a bit of an odd one. I can probably count on one hand the number of times you actually need to roll in the game. (it was a bit stupid having to roll across Hyrule Field in the past to get somewhere fast, as it was pointed out already a few posts back). Give the controls time, and I guarantee that you will not want to go back. Even the weapon choosing system is pretty quick, it will just take a short bit of time to adjust. With regards to the first boss: I agree that it was pretty hard for a first one. I did enjoy that dungeon though and liked the colouring/theming. Had a very Metroid Prime vibe to it, for some reason. Also, have to agree with @Jonnas, the area/clearing you described is meant to be soothing. I loved entering that area, just for that bit (where you walk into the area and then see birds flutter away, it has a magical vibe to it and feels so tranquil).
Ronnie Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 I've been playing Zelda since the original on the NES and I figured out and liked the controls instantly. It's nothing to do with how long you've been playing the games, but how open minded you are. They work fine and really don't deserve all this constant attention negative or positive. As for rolling, 99% of the time the only reason to do that in the previous Zeldas was to get places faster, now with the sprint, I didn't feel the need to roll unless I had to to get something out of trees etc. Also the game feels unfinished in places. Talking to the Goron I met in the woods for the first time... there was no music!?... He just spoke in silence for a minute or two. Very strange! Where was the Goron theme, or environment theme. Oh come on, now you're just complaining for the hell of it. As others have said that clearing is supposed to be silent, it adds to the soothing mood of the environment. It worked well IMO You're not going to enjoy this game in the mood you're in, constantly looking for faults. I'd suggest you sit back, get over the fact that it's not what you were expecting and try to enjoy for what it is.
Retro_Link Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Alright guys! Take it easy! You can all look back at the game now, but I'm sure you had a few issues at the start. I never once said I wasn't enjoying the game, it's just taking a bit of getting used too. Can't say I felt that 'sanctuary' feeling in that space as you guys are describing, seeing as it was full of Moblins on arrival, but fair enough. Just finished the second temple and my control gripes are pretty much gone now, and I'm yet to have any more awkward moments with the jumping, so I'm not sure what that was. I've also found that a very quick tap of the Z button centres the camera without breaking the flow by putting Link into action stance, so that's much better. Really enjoyed the Fire 'Earth' temple! There'd better not be an actual Fire temple too! :p Indiana Link ftw, and the Boss battle was a good one! Continue to love the story and the visuals in the game! Looks like I'm off to the desert next... which I was a bit surprised at... considering it's basically been 'Forest'/'Fire'... lets' just say I wouldn't be surprised to find the desert temple is in fact an Oasis 'water' temple! We shall see. Edited May 12, 2012 by Retro_Link
-Dem0- Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 We thought everyone had played it, but then you came around. You won't be the last one, either.
Grazza Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Alright guys! Take it easy!You can all look back at the game now, but I'm sure you had a few issues at the start. Well, I for one am enjoying your posts as you are perfectly describing the early parts of the game. Sure, I once had to learn the controls of Ocarina of Time, just as I had to learn the controls of Shadow of the Colossus and anything else, but the point about good controls is they should disappear once you've learnt them, allowing you be to become immersed in the game. With Skyward Sword, the controls never did "disappear". I was always thinking "Where is my hand? Which way do I have to move it?" The Ghirahim battle where you have to move it slowly one way and then quickly the opposite way is almost a farce. (Incidentally, there are some good boss battles in Skyward Sword, but none of them are the swordfights.) In the end, the only thing I liked about the controls was the ability to differentiate between vertical and horizontal (not the direction), but you could have just as much fun in Wii Sports Resort. I don't hate motion controls, but I think they are best kept to multiplayer, living room fun, not long, immersive experiences. Yes, you'll get used to the controls enough to complete the game, Retro Link, but I see no reason why they should return in future Zeldas.
Retro_Link Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Talking of horizontal and verticle... I've pretty much just resorted to using the shield against Deku-Baba's now, because the horizontal ones are really annoying, you have to be really accurate I find. Not so much the verticle ones. Still cool though. OK so I've done the desert! Damn it was such a lengthy area I thought it was the temple! But nope, I've just entered the mining facility! The desert grounds/grounds around the Temple of Time were cool! I mean I don't like looking at desert levels, but I loved revealing the past which looked great! Lovely contrast having grass and a tree spring up in the desert etc... Damn I wish I hadn't broken my wooden shield, because I've only got my strengthened Metal one, which isn't good around these electricity folk! I resorted to playing the two 'generator mazes' like a FPS! Moving through them with my slingshot, stunning the baton wielding Moblin's and then laying into them with the sword. I'd have brought a new Wooden shield and maxed it out, except I don't have any of the 'claws' you need. As a result this temple could be a bit of a bitch! :p
Beverage Posted May 11, 2012 Posted May 11, 2012 Retro Link oh my gawd you're a knob! No I know there are some annoying things but you'll get used to them - like it seems that you already have. Has anybody downloaded the Ghirahim theme? If anyone's got it can you email it to me please? Many thanks - I want to have it suddenly play at my brothers wedding when they're saying the vows so I can crash the wedding and make it a no-show (I don't want my big bro getting married just yet, he should take it slow )
Jonnas Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 Talking of horizontal and verticle... I've pretty much just resorted to using the shield against Deku-Baba's now, because the horizontal ones are really annoying, you have to be really accurate I find. Not so much the verticle ones. Still cool though. I actually dislike the fact that the shield basically allows you to skip otherwise interesting fights. Beating the game without a shield should be a fun challenge, in the future. If you need to pull off a horizontal slash quickly, use the spin attack. Works like a charm most of the time. OK so I've done the desert! Damn it was such a lengthy area I thought it was the temple! But nope, I've just entered the mining facility! I was waiting for you to reach this area. Timeshift stones are a wonderful storytelling device, aren't they? 3rd Dungeon is one of my favourites, here. The Iron Shield should work on certain enemies. I think you can handle it. Also, to get the claws...Keese (Bats) have it. If you already have the Treasure Medal, you can collect plenty in Skyloft, at night and in the cave. The desert grounds/grounds around the Temple of Time were cool! I mean I don't like looking at desert levels, but I loved revealing the past which looked great! Lovely contrast having grass and a tree spring up in the desert etc... Damn I wish I hadn't broken my wooden shield, because I've only got my strengthened Metal one, which isn't good around these electricity folk! I resorted to playing the two 'generator mazes' like a FPS! Moving through them with my slingshot, stunning the baton wielding Moblin's and then laying into them with the sword. I'd have brought a new Wooden shield and maxed it out, except I don't have any of the 'claws' you need. As a result this temple could be a bit of a bitch! :p
LostOverThere Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Has anybody downloaded the Ghirahim theme? If anyone's got it can you email it to me please? I tried to email you a bunch, but they keep bouncing back. This was to your hotmail, mind you. Speaking of the soundtrack, I've been listening to it a lot lately. Despite what many have said previously, I still think it's a well put together soundtrack. It's biggest downfall is the lack of catchy melodies that made the previous soundtracks so great. Still, it sounds wonderful and there's still some lovely tunes. Edited May 12, 2012 by LostOverThere
Dog-amoto Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 The game doesn't really get going till the third temple. You will love it after this, minor niggles aside.
Beverage Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) I actually dislike the fact that the shield basically allows you to skip otherwise interesting fights. Beating the game without a shield should be a fun challenge, in the future. Yeah I agree. I think that shields (especially the sacred, legendary high-rule one ) should of course still remain in but most definitely shield-damaging needs to become a standard. Maybe when you get your Hylian shield later on in the story then, if possible, situations should occur which results in your items - namely the defensive item - being confiscated, thus making gameplay even more insane. The area should be riddled with elite swordsman and other brutish giants/trolls/goblins with their clubs, staffs and what not (and their shields) and then you need to use your sword skills (and any other items which may aid you in battle) to worm your way out of that predicament. To make it 'fun' though, I think that they should really work on enhancing the motion precision and also making the enemy A.I more intelligent - i.e. make them be able to predict (to a certain extent) your attack rhythm (not to mention that they also have shields ) and they should also have a couple of unique 'attack rhythms' of their own (each enemy type has maybe 2-3 attack patterns each) so that it mixes up gameplay a nice amount to where you don't just use your sword to attack and trick the enemy, but also to parry - and counter - their series of attacks. I do realize that this probably wouldn't be casual-friendly, though. I tried to email you a bunch, but they keep bouncing back. This was to your hotmail, mind you. Speaking of the soundtrack, I've been listening to it a lot lately. Despite what many have said previously, I still think it's a well put together soundtrack. It's biggest downfall is the lack of catchy melodies that made the previous soundtracks so great. Still, it sounds wonderful and there's still some lovely tunes. Hey you were sending it to [email protected] right? Don't worry I'll download it later, but thanks dude! : peace: Yeah there were a few catchy melodies in Skyward Sword and there were a little mmmm okaaaaayishhhhh ones on the orchestra cd, but three tunes that stand out to me is that place where the windmill thing fell down to (forgot the name of most of the places lol), Ghirahim's theme and also, no doubt about it; the opening soundtrack (this ones quite a classic I reckon!)... The final melody which was apart of the Zelda's 25th Anniversary Ochestral Performance at E3. Loved it:heart: Edited May 12, 2012 by Beverage Automerged Doublepost
Retro_Link Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) OK so I've played quite a bit more of this. Really enjoying it! OK so the Scorpian Boss in the Mine Temple was brilliant! It didn't occur to me for a while that I'd actually be able to blow that huge mass of sand around to uncover it!... I kept thinking I had to somehow strike the tail, which was proving impossible! Great fun! The following mine cart ride through the undergrounds of the Temple of Time was pretty magical! Was it coincidence that the humming sound of the electric minecart sounded like the humming temple of time music from Ocarina of Time? Loved it! --- Then came the trip to the Thunder Cloud... what a mess! Honestly it's so disspointing to see something so badly designed in a Zelda/Nintendo game. We had those ugly 'cloud screens' around landmasses back in Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast, and it looked terrible then, let alone now! And inside the cloud is horrible too... with no explanation as to what the fuck this place is and why it is the way it is/different, with wierd flying insect creatures! --- Thankfully all that was made up for by what I think is one of the most beautiful areas in any Zelda game... Lake Floria! Diving off that stone 'alter' in the woods down into the waterfall surrounded lake below was glorious, as was the trip through to meet the Water Dragon... and the sunny clearing outside Floria Waterfall was stunning! The visuals/graphical style really comes alive here, I love it, such a beautiful relaxing place to be, I wish more was made of it! Also the water effects are lovely. Really enjoyed the 'Water' Temple, the whip is pretty fun! And another fantastic boss fight with that huge metal sword fighter! *note* The boss names aren't at all memorable in this! So it's off to the desert again next. --- Also regarding quests on Skyloft... When it comes to giving that guys letter to either a) the girl with the hat it's intended for, or b) the hand... do you have to make a choice?... or do you get a piece of paper again later on? I saved before that sidequest and tried both options... and both end up with the guy who writes the letter getting pissed with you, but the relationship option gives you crystals, but I haven't seen if the hand quest plays out further at a later stage. *could you please answer this as spoiler free as possible* i.e. Yes you have to choose/No it doesn't matter which you go with at this stage. Have to say it's a little dissapointing to see the Zelda team once again copying elements from Okami. Twilight Princess copied entire gameplay mechanics with the wolf, and the 'zoned combat arena's. And although Skyward Sword isn't nearly as blatent and only relatively small details; so far there's been the 'Eye door locks' and the Water Dragon!... complete with oriental soundtrack! Edited May 24, 2012 by Retro_Link
Ronnie Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 You either choose one or the other, there's no going back. It doesn't really matter though, the outcomes are different but it doesn't impact anything. The Thunderhead was beyond lazy I totally agree. What a disappointment. You'd think they would have at the very least changed the background music, but no it's exactly the same as the regular sky. Wind Waker handled atmospheric changes like that ten times better.
Jonnas Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 The reward is the same for both options. Plot-wise, both outcomes are a bit different (only a bit. And it's ultimately inconsequential outside of the characters involved) Have to say it's a little dissapointing to see the Zelda team once again copying elements from Okami. Twilight Princess copied entire gameplay mechanics with the wolf, and the 'zoned combat arena's. And although Skyward Sword isn't nearly as blatent and only relatively small details; so far there's been the 'Eye door locks' and the Water Dragon!... complete with oriental soundtrack! While I haven't played Okami*, didn't the producer from that game say they were inspired by Zelda in the first place? Both franchises copying each other sounds healthy. Didn't Super Mario 64 use the eye enemy first, though? As for the Water Dragon... if they're both based off Japanese folklore/mythology/whatever...That's not copying elements, that's just drawing from the same reference pool *(WTF is wrong with me, I've been meaning to get it for ages)
Fused King Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Have to say it's a little dissapointing to see the Zelda team once again copying elements from Okami. Twilight Princess copied entire gameplay mechanics with the wolf, and the 'zoned combat arena's. And although Skyward Sword isn't nearly as blatent and only relatively small details; so far there's been the 'Eye door locks' and the Water Dragon!... complete with oriental soundtrack! Now now, they both use Japanese myths and legends and quirkiness as a source of inspiration. One does it more literally than the other though.
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