Wind Waker

[Hero-of-Time]

I never really got into that at all. You saying its better than Anju & Kafei?

 

Yup. When done right, I love collecting stuff in games. This was fantastic, especially when you're in the middle of a boss fight and have to whip the camera out. Seeing your shots get turned into little statues was most satisfying.

[darksnowman]

What the-?! Go replay Wind Waker right now!

 

Windfall doesn't even have caves!

 

I might just have a nosey on Youtube later. We'll see who's right then!

 

Yup. When done right, I love collecting stuff in games. This was fantastic, especially when you're in the middle of a boss fight and have to whip the camera out. Seeing your shots get turned into little statues was most satisfying.

 

Are there missables in that sidequest? I seem to remember reading about people saying that at the time.

[Hero-of-Time]

Are there missables in that sidequest? I seem to remember reading about people saying that at the time.

 

Yeah, I think so.

 

*googles*

 

Big Octo: Take his picture before you defeat all six of them.

Phantom Ganon: Take his picture before you kill him with the Light Arrow in Ganon's Tower.

Wizzrobe: The mini-boss in Wind Temple. Get his picture before you kill him.

Helmaroc King: Get his picture before defeating him in the Forsaken Fortress.

Tetra: Get her picture in Hyrule Castle, after Helmaroc King, but before Tetra realizes she's Zelda.

Kolgoli: The Rito closest to where Medli on the second floor deck in Dragon Roost Island. Get his picture before playing Earth God's Lyric to Medli.

Knuckle: Get his picture after the Knuckle event on Outset Island, but before every other figurine is collected.

Cyclos: Get his picture before you defeat him and learn the Ballad of Gales.

Puppet Ganon: Get his picture before defeating him in Ganon's Tower.

[Ike]

I had a race with a friend to see who could get them all first. I won of course

 

It was fun when you get into it, having missables is a pain though. I think it required a second play through anyway though? I liked reading the descriptions and it was great seeing the rooms filled out.

[Jonnas]

Having missables usually sucks, but the figurines carried over to a New Game+, so it didn't bother me as much as it could. Better than having to collect everything again in another playthrough, at least (yes, Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, I'm looking at you)

[Cube]

Didn't it take at least two or three playthroughs to collect them all?

[Magnus]

I think it takes two playthroughs, as you need the color camera before you can actually get it to get every statue.

 

I would have liked collecting the statues more if you could get all of them in one playthrough, if the statue maker wasn't so picky when it came to your photos (especially annoying when you only get one chance to take a picture - whoops, sorry, the giant boss's right tentacle is slightly out of frame, please go back in time and take another picture) and if it wasn't such a pain to hand in the pictures and wait for him to make the statues.

[Hero-of-Time]

I'm pretty sure I got all of them on my first playthrough....

 

*googles*

 

Yup, you can get them all first time.

[Cube]

What about :

 

 

Aryll

On the second playthrough only snap her on the lookout tower before she is kidnapped.

 

Quill

On the second play through only snap him on Outset Island before you board the Pirate Ship.

[Ronnie]

I never really tried the figuring sidequest (and this is coming from an enormous Wind Waker fan), maybe I should next playthrough

[Hero-of-Time]

What about :

 

For Aryll you take a photo of Grandma on Outset Island and for Quill you get that one by taking a photo of the Chieftan.

[Retro_Link]

Windfall doesn't even have caves!

Hmm, it kinda does... there's that cave inlet where you talk to 'Red Lion.

[Grazza]

What the-?! Go replay Wind Waker right now!

 

Windfall doesn't even have caves!

 

Well, it does really, if secret passages count, which is what 'snowman is thinking of with the camera.

 

As for the Pictograph sidequest, yes, it's brilliant, but I am one of the people who hasn't completed it fully. There are too many missables and the sculptor is indeed too picky.

[Jonnas]

Hmm, it kinda does... there's that cave inlet where you talk to 'Red Lion.

 

Well...not a cave in the traditional Zelda sense, then

 

Well, it does really, if secret passages count, which is what 'snowman is thinking of with the camera.

 

In order to get the colour camera, you need to do Lenzo's errands, and then fetch a bright firefly at Forest Haven to trap in the camera (still cruel).

 

There's a secret passage nearby you can take to do another pictograph-related sidequest...but calling it a cave is pushing it.

 

I think it takes two playthroughs, as you need the color camera before you can actually get it to get every statue.

 

Nope. I once tried to do everything on a single playthrough, and it is possible (some statues you get automatically with certain pictures, like Quill and Aryll. Others you can find a way around, like Gohdan on the wall).

 

It's just not probable to find this out by yourself, the first time.

[Captain Falcon]

Falcon, I can respect your feelings regarding the beginning of WW, as I can see how someone might dislike the stealthy segments (I'm surprised nobody mentioned Forsaken Fortress before you, actually)...

 

...but that argument is false. In Windfall, there are no tasks. Only a task: Talk to the eskimo. Then you can leave.

Just saying

 

Memory must be playing tricks on me but I seem to recall their being a bit more to acquistion of the sail than that - did you not even have to pay for it? Doesn't he give you some rubbish about it being his family's treasure and he couldn't possible part with it until you give him some money... which if you don't have means you have to wander around collecting rupees?

 

I agree with dungeons being style over substance in this game, they're very basic and straightforward, except for the Wind Temple. There are nostalgia goggles at play.

 

The Wind Temple is decent enough but only that. Majora's Mask's Stone Tower reflection puzzles destroy those of the Earth Temple. It's not like the temples are bad... they just aren't exactly good.

 

However, I also think the real "meat" of the game is in the ocean, not in the dungeons. I can see we don't agree on this point, though.

 

And Epona is definitely not the same as the boat. Epona is an accessory that moves like Link, while the boat is a necessary vehicle. It may not seem like much, but the difference goes a long way.

 

If the ocean is the meat then it's that string chewy kinda that you think is fine at the start but then your realise you're still trying to break down that same piece from 5 mintues ago and it's beginning to give you jaw ache.

 

If Link could swim for more than 30 seconds without drowning, wouldn't TKoRL then just become another accessory? Yes there are a couple of times when you need to fire your cannon or shoot an arrow but that would easily be overcome by making a section of land you can stand on. As it stands, what you say is true, and I can't deny, that but it could have so easily not been the case.

 

I do hope this part was a joke...

 

Perhaps it was a little over the top but I can say of the 13 Zelda games I own, it easily ranks the lowest and was enough to put me off getting it's sequel. I never bought FSA because I knew I'd never get to play it properly in multiplayer and see it at it's best. I never bought ST because PH at it's best still wasn't good enough in my eyes and I had doubts over the quality of the gameplay... in a Zelda game.

 

It's one thing to look back at a and game and realise it could have been better after you "hyped it up" in your own mind but when you have the doubts before you've even played it, something is wrong.

[Ronnie]

The dungeons in Wind Waker were stunning, I thought. The Forsaken Fortress and the whole creepy vibe that went with it, the Forsaken Fortress (gorgeous art style and beautiful use of props), the Tower of the Gods was epic in scale, the Wind Temple concept was pretty nifty and I can't really remember the Earth Temple but I'm sure it was good. Using Medli and Makar in the latter two also gave them a nice twist.

 

On the other hand I've already forgotten what half the ones in Skyward Sword were like.

[Jonnas]

...I can't really remember the Earth Temple [and I haven't mentioned Dragon Roost Cavern or Forbidden Woods]

 

On the other hand I've already forgotten what half the ones in Skyward Sword were like.

 

Apparently, you have also forgotten half of Wind Waker's dungeons, too :p

(I'm not making a point, here. Just noticed the irony and had to point it out)

 

Perhaps it was a little over the top but I can say of the 13 Zelda games I own, it easily ranks the lowest and was enough to put me off getting it's sequel. I never bought FSA because I knew I'd never get to play it properly in multiplayer and see it at it's best. I never bought ST because PH at it's best still wasn't good enough in my eyes and I had doubts over the quality of the gameplay... in a Zelda game.

 

It's one thing to look back at a and game and realise it could have been better after you "hyped it up" in your own mind but when you have the doubts before you've even played it, something is wrong.

 

I was only referring to the fact that you apparently used Phantom Hourglass as an argument against Wind Waker. That was what I hoped was a joke, and thankfully, it was.

 

Not a jab at your opinion of PH at all, there are numerous flaws in that game (I happen to like it a lot, but they're clear as day)

 

As for Spirit Tracks... I get that. Playing a game while expecting too less of it can easily ruin the experience.

If you hated PH that much, there must be something inherent to the engine that simply turns you off.

(lol, engine)

 

Memory must be playing tricks on me but I seem to recall their being a bit more to acquistion of the sail than that - did you not even have to pay for it? Doesn't he give you some rubbish about it being his family's treasure and he couldn't possible part with it until you give him some money... which if you don't have means you have to wander around collecting rupees?

 

Oh yeah, 70 or 80 Rupees, right? But you can still find those in Outset and Forsaken Fortress, no? I think I recall there being a few in the prison cell...

 

The Wind Temple is decent enough but only that. Majora's Mask's Stone Tower reflection puzzles destroy those of the Earth Temple. It's not like the temples are bad... they just aren't exactly good.

 

I kinda want to thank this paragraph Since we're merely talking dungeon design, I definitely agree. Though I think comparing it to Stone Tower Temple is unfair, that's the best dungeon in the series

 

If Link could swim for more than 30 seconds without drowning, wouldn't TKoRL then just become another accessory? Yes there are a couple of times when you need to fire your cannon or shoot an arrow but that would easily be overcome by making a section of land you can stand on. As it stands, what you say is true, and I can't deny, that but it could have so easily not been the case.

 

You do realise that every single reason that prevents this from happening is a core element of the game, right?

 

For starters, there's the sunken treasures, for which you logically need the boat. You forgot to mention these, but the treasure charts are involved on more than half of the sidequests (and 8 of them are actively required for the main quest).

 

More importantly, it wouldn't be an ocean if you could simply hop and swim from isle to isle (I'm not talking about drowning, I'm talking about it not being impossibly big to travel by foot/stroke). In fact, to be able to swim from isle to isle, the bodies of water would have to be pretty small, which would inherently eliminate things like the spontaneous hurricanes and Giant Squids (which require the boat to be feasible battles). Also, since the world would be smaller, the gloomy Forsaken Fortress, the majestic Tower of the Gods, the lively Windfall and the stormy Greatfish Island would be so close to each other, the mood whiplash would be immense (especially considering we can see them in the distance).

 

And even if the world was still huge, why would they create an Ocean and allow us to travel it by swimstroke? If the protagonist was a Zora of sorts, maybe, but this is about a kid who travels the ocean, a boat is the only logical means of transport. And everything we see is tied to the "sailor" theme (which brings us back to the sunken treasure)

 

Point is, it couldn't "easily" be the same. It would need to have a completely different concept and design.

[Grazza]

I thought Wind Waker's dungeons were all very specific and memorable:

 

Forsaken Fortress - Clearly a remote fortress. Surrounded by sea, patrolled by lantern-carrying Moblins and spotlight-operating Bokoblins. On later visits (itself a revelation), you traverse the tall tower leading up to the room where the governer surveys his prison.

 

Dragon Roost - An angry dragon sits atop a volcano... Once Link has conquered the fiery base, he takes a tour round the clifftop paths, taking in the sea views, before fighting the Moblins at the top and finding out what the real problem was.

 

Forbidden Forest - Like so many of the game's dungeons, it has the Great Sea on all sides. Even getting there involves you taking in your surroundings and gliding over to the main dungeon. Once inside, you are cleary in a type of forest, fighting insects and cutting vines with your Boomerang.

 

Tower of the Gods - Even the way it appeared blows everything else away. Then there's the fact you can actually take your boat into it, before the higher parts of the tower, which involve some challenging puzzles and fights with the best Darknuts and Wizrobes yet seen.

 

Wind Temple - A cyclone rages in the centre, allowing you to access different levels from all sides and requiring one of the best items in Wind Waker - the Deku Leaf.

 

Earth Temple - The room with the scorpion mirrors alone was enough to make this one of the best. Finding them (by bombing the walls), dragging them into position and then using your Mirror Shield to complete the whole thing may not have been as demanding as Majora's Mask, but was even more fun than that brilliant game.

 

...

 

Outstanding.

[Ronnie]

Jonnas, sorry no idea why I wrote Forsaken Fortress twice lol, the second one was supposed to be Forbidden Woods

[Jonnas]

It's cool, it was just something humorous I noticed

[nekunando]

I can't even remember the dungeons in Wind Waker at all (or Twilight Princess, for that matter )

 

I can picture places such as Outset Island and Windfall Island in my head but the only part of any dungeon I seem to recall is actually the section that Miyamoto demonstrated back at E3 2002 where I remember him not being able to pick up a stick (it kinda fell into the wall, I think..?) and then he wasn't able to progress any further

 

After seeing a few screenshots of this, I really want to play it again..

[Retro_Link]

I just felt the need to watch the opening section of this game to get a fix of it.

 

I was sure there was mention of the Gods flooding the land in the titles?... does that come later on in the game?

[Jonnas]

I just felt the need to watch the opening section of this game to get a fix of it.

 

I was sure there was mention of the Gods flooding the land in the titles?... does that come later on in the game?

 

Yes. It was a plot twist, remember?

[Retro_Link]

Yes. It was a plot twist, remember?

No but as in, I thought there was a section of the 'scroll/book' or whatever you envisage the title sequence to be on, that portrayed the events in pictures. Is there?... and you're shown that bit later on?

 

And well no, unfortunately for me I don't think it was a plot twist.

 

Can't remeber how exactly, but I think I knew about it, probably as a result of internet spoilers/gaming mags in the build up to launch, I can't remember how exactly.

 

I've always thought how great it must have been to not know that fact.

[Jimbob]

All this talk of Wind Waker, it's made me dig out the ol soundtrack for a listen.

 

 

Such brilliance indeed, i ought to maybe dig the game out as well.