EEVILMURRAY Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Why on earth would having a man dressed as a woman as your desktop embarrassing? Would it be your intention to have a man dressed as a woman on your desktop?
The fish Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 If you're using "she looks like a man" as a criticism... TBQFH 99% of women would regard "she looks like a man" as a bad thing, and, well, personally I think if a woman looks like a man, it's not exactly great. If that's the effect they want, then, hey, that's cool with me, but I think with the person in question it's not something she'd appreciate none too much.
Goafer Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 At the end of the day, I'm just fucking fed up of whenever this topic is brought up everyone kinda huddles together and says "No, that's not offensive". THAT'S THE KINDA SHIT PEOPLE DID AND SAID IN THE 50s WHILST THEY WERE BLACKING UP AND HUGGING THEIR GOLLYWOGS. It might not seem offensive to you, because you've obviously been brought up in an atmosphere where trans people are laughed at casually and thought of as weird curiosities. But it's a fucking real issue. And you're doing yourself no favours by looking like transphobic cunts. All the gay guys I know have absolutely no problem with people making gay jokes. Know why? Equality. They want to be treated just like everyone else. Everyone else gets a bit of piss taking, pussyfooting around homosexuality isn't equality, it's patronising. Same goes for anything. It's exactly the same with our manager at work (who is black). She get's the piss taken out of her for being black and she takes the piss out of us for being white. No one gets offended and it's all good. That to me is equality. On a side note, this is the greatest video I've ever seen regarding racism:
Frank Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 This is certainly a very interesting/active day for N-E. I think that while Diego didn't mean any/much harm in his post I can see why Chair would get offended. I'm sure it was unintentional and passively said. I think we shouldn't berate Chair for his opinion either. Everyone knows how passionate he is about LGTBQ rights etc. In fact, he makes me feel a little guilty for not being as passionate as him! :p I should learn.
Dyson Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 My manager is the only woman in our workplace, and she's always making jokes about it. We do too. And she jokes about us being guys, with typical guy jokes. There is no issue here. Nobody set out to insult anyones sexual preference and it wasn't a big deal. I don't understand the criticism. Everyone knows how passionate he is about LGTBQ rights etc. Well, people are particularly harsh on extreme feminists, and this took a similar slant, so why shouldn't we question it?
chairdriver Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 TBQFH 99% of women would regard "she looks like a man" as a bad thing, and, well, personally I think if a woman looks like a man, it's not exactly great. If that's the effect they want, then, hey, that's cool with me, but I think with the person in question it's not something she'd appreciate none too much. The point is that Nicki Minaj has chosen, with intention, to present herself like that. Diageo's reaction obviously doesn't stem from the fact she's ugly. No one would seriously argue she's ugly, since realistically she's looks fine at worst. Diageo finds it embarrassing to look at her because she reminds him of a drag queen.
Diageo Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 I do think she is ugly at best. Because I am not attracted to her. One of the reasons is probably because she looks like a man to me.
Dyson Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Diageo finds it embarrassing to look at her because she reminds him of a drag queen. These posts are getting hard to look at because you're being a complete drama queen. Come on, chair, you're a sensible person, there was no malice or harmful intent in any of his posts. Anyone can see that.
chairdriver Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 These posts are getting hard to look at because you're being a complete drama queen. Come on, chair, you're a sensible person, there was no malice or harmful intent in any of his posts. Anyone can see that. That's the thing. There was no malice. It's so casual, and ingrained. All I'm saying is that in life, it's generally not going to go down very well.
Diageo Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 That's the thing. There was no malice. It's so casual, and ingrained. All I'm saying is that in life, it's generally not going to go down very well. If it's casual and ingrained, doesn't that mean that it will go down indifferently?
EEVILMURRAY Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 No one would seriously argue she's ugly, since realistically she's looks fine at worst. Depends on which image. I'd certainly consider Motorboating that. Dennis Rodman part II? No thanks.
heroicjanitor Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 That's the thing. There was no malice. It's so casual, and ingrained. All I'm saying is that in life, it's generally not going to go down very well. But if there was no malice, then it is fine. Jokes are only bad if they contain malice, otherwise everyone is fair game.
Magnus Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Chill your beans chair. I think you're trying to make this bigger than it is. That's what she said. Or he or whatever.
chairdriver Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 But if there was no malice, then it is fine. Jokes are only bad if they contain malice, otherwise everyone is fair game. No, it's not fine. This girl asked me whether you can catch AIDS by touching a gay man's skin, genuinely, as a serious question. She's not got a malicious bone in her body, but the evident deep homophobic atmosphere that that girl has been brought up in is not fine. It's like a white child growing up with black slaves. The white child has no mal-intention. But it is by no stretch of the imagination fine that that child sees itself better than the black slaves [which is what happens when you have someone cleaning your shoes for you].
Goafer Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 But if there was no malice, then it is fine. Jokes are only bad if they contain malice, otherwise everyone is fair game. Exactly this. Rather than getting hysterical over every little joke and alienating themselves further, people should join in with the jokes and make one back. The boss at work I mentioned is the perfect example of this. If she were to get offended at every slight mention of her race, we would be too scared to say anything around her. This would prevent her from being part of the team and generally create a weird atmosphere. Because she joins in, it allows us to treat her equally. It's a lot easier to treat people equally if they just lighten the hell up. This girl asked me whether you can catch AIDS by touching a gay man's skin, genuinely, as a serious question. She's not got a malicious bone in her body, but the evident deep homophobic atmosphere that that girl has been brought up in is not fine. Well target the people who are malicious (the parents I assume in this case). Targeting people who are tolerant but make the odd jokes only alienates yourself further.
chairdriver Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Right, so rather than tackling the issue we should just make jokes of ourselves and then forget the issue exists? Try telling the people who are victims of transphobic abuse that they should make a joke out of it.
EEVILMURRAY Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Right, so rather than tackling the issue we should just make jokes of ourselves and then forget the issue exists? Twats like Alan Carr make good money from that. And pretty much every black stand up comedian.
chairdriver Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Twats like Alan Carr make good money from that. Well, yeah, that's why he's one of my least favourite persons. :p
EddieColeslaw Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 It's like a white child growing up with black slaves. The white child has no mal-intention. But it is by no stretch of the imagination fine that that child sees itself better than the black slaves [which is what happens when you have someone cleaning your shoes for you]. But the circumstances in which that child was brought up in was not his fault. He or she did not choose to be born into a family/place populated by black slaves. It is purely by coincidence, and people learn from what they're exposed to. However some people, as they grow up, branch out and seek other points of view, so perhaps this child later on learned that his views of race as a child were wrong. I'm not arguing against the points you make about transphobia, but this example just doesn't make sense to me...
Ramar Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 These posts are getting hard to look at because you're being a complete drama queen. Come on, chair, you're a sensible person, there was no malice or harmful intent in any of his posts. Anyone can see that. You homophobe! How offensive!
Paj! Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Oh Nicki, what have you started? -- Offence/lack of offence is interesting. I have thoughts, but they need to mull.
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 How is this any different to Paj saying that you looked like a lesbian in the other thread? What is that saying exactly? That all lesbians are skinny with short hair? Are you going to have a go at him, as well? *stirs some more*
Goafer Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Right, so rather than tackling the issue we should just make jokes of ourselves and then forget the issue exists? Try telling the people who are victims of transphobic abuse that they should make a joke out of it. No. What I'm saying is laugh along with people who are clearly just making light hearted jokes. People make light hearted jokes about absolutely everything. By throwing a massive tantrum at the little things, you're just making people shy away from it and not want to get involved. You can't expect "us" to truly accept something if we're always too scared to mention it in case of a shit fit. When people are truly comfortable with something, they joke about it. For example, my friends (one of which is gay) were talking about the cat hairs on my gay friends trousers. One of my other friends said "I bet that's the closest those have ever got to pussy". We all laughed and nothing came of it. That was a sign of being totally comfortable with our friend and his sexuality. If my other friend had thought "better not make that joke, he might get offended" it's just patronising. One of my other gay friends is always joking about being a massive queen. Because he openly jokes about it, it makes it more easier to talk to him since I don't have to worry about offending him. He knows I don't care about his sexuality and I don't have to worry about saying anything offensive. Obviously, if there is genuine abuse being thrown around, inform the authorities. Show that it absolutely will not be tolerated. I'm just saying that you can't get wildly offended at the little things. And I don't really see the manliness in that woman. Don't think she's particularly attractive either. Each to their own.
chairdriver Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 How is this any different to Paj saying that you looked like a lesbian in the other thread? Because that's not built upon an underlying phobia. Where Diageo's attitude obviously is. [Having read 6 months of Diageo's posts, there's been more than enough times where I've thought "... that's pretty toxic."] --- Ultimately, there's nothing to be gained by labouring the point. Just don't act like that in future, for your own sake.
Diageo Posted May 2, 2011 Posted May 2, 2011 Or I might get some more tantrums? I joke because I like you. Even if I am the worst person in your life.
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