Daft Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The Raid was utterly inane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanee Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Man I was pumped for the Raid I really was. God easily the most disapointing film of last year for me. Dredd trumps it every department, apart from the hand to hand combat that is. Edited January 18, 2013 by bryanee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) The Raid was utterly inane. So was Dredd. And it's irrelevant in both cases, since they're pure action thrills with absolutely no substance behind them. Also, I'd actually argue that Dredd actually wins on the inane departament... The 3 traitor judges were absolutely unnecessary, especially that ridiculous "wait for her to shoot you" scene... and the corny little mind heist scene. The Raid's only offense was maybe the fridge scene... maybe. There's no de facto answer to it, but when both the audiences and the critics agree that something is better, it usually means it's better. Usually. Man I was pumped for the Raid I really was. God easily the most disapointing film of last year for me. Dredd trumps it every department apart from the hand to hand combat. Trumps it? oO It has worse cinematography, worse acting and worse sound design. That's the factual part. Then, although it's obviously subjective, I'd (along with the large majority of the entire film community) argue it has a worse soundtrack, worse action setpieces, worse pacing and the corny special effects end up detracting from it... The Raid is a pure action film, no frills whatsoever, just pure action from start to finish. The only reason you probably didn't like it was that you must've watched Dredd first and were expecting something along the same lines... Dredd has better action than the usual Holywood shite, but still succumbs to the usual unnecessary special effects cluttering everything and the same old villain cliches of old. Opinions aside, at the end of the day this is how it stands now: The Raid was an unprecedented action indie success the likes of which haven't been seen since Ong Bak first came out, it has won the love and acclaim of the entire industry and is now widely considered a masterpiece of modern action as well as very important milestone in independent film making. Dredd is a decent film that got a modest positive reception, but tanked very hard and was mostly shrugged off by everyone. The world will forget about Dredd in 6 months while The Raid has a sequel and 2 remakes on the way and has successfully launched the career of both it's director and main star. Which one do you think "won"? Edited January 18, 2013 by Oxigen_Waste Automerged Doublepost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanee Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Wow I'm just going to ignore you because you're coming across as a complete tit with all the fact bollocks in your first paragraph. And FYI I saw The Raid a good few months before Dredd so ner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Just feel like adding this to the little argument going on here. In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Wow I'm just going to ignore you because you're coming across as a complete tit with all the fact bollocks in your first paragraph. And FYI I saw The Raid a good few months before Dredd so ner. What bollocks? They are fucking facts. The cinematography IS better, it's not an opinion thing like the action setpieces which or may not appeal to each individual! The sound design and cinematography of The Raid are immensely better and there's no opinion that can change that. Technique is what it is. I'm sorry if you feel inadequate, but calling me a tit isn't going to change anything. If I come across as a tit, then your insult comes across as the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. Just feel like adding this to the little argument going on here. Consequentially, the validity of such arguments is null, unless employed in the context of a cultural debate, as with folklore, the arts See, I have a rethoric textbook too. Although I do mostly agree with your quote, it's not as black & white as you make it out to be, especially since art is the most subjective of fields, even if it does have it's objective side too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Well obviously, it only applies to deductive reasoning of propositional logic. I just thought I'd annoy you. I also thought it was funny that you complained that everyone is in a production line mentality and obsessed with Americanised culture, but then use the opinion of the masses to say that it must be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Well obviously, it only applies to deductive reasoning of propositional logic. I just thought I'd annoy you. I also thought it was funny that you complained that everyone is in a production line mentality and obsessed with Americanised culture, but then use the opinion of the masses to say that it must be good. "There's no de facto answer to it, but when both the audiences and the critics agree that something is better, it usually means it's better. Usually." I pretty much meant that when the masses agree with the critics, it's usually a very strong sign, not that the opinion of the masses alone is what defines it. Like I said, I do mostly agree with you, the masses have no idea what they're talking about, for the most part... however, when both the critics and the masses agree on the same subject it's usually (how many usuallys does that make?) a great (or at least a good one) sign. The dumb part is, I'm getting all agitated discussing this and I actually liked both movies the same. I'm not that big a fan of no frills action, I like my action cerebral, but they both seduced me to like them, and whilst I do agree that The Raid is the best movie of the two, I honesly don't know which one I personally preffer. As for annoying me, you can't do that anymore. I've grown to actually like you and enjoy your posts (even though we don't see eye to eye on many things), so now even when they do annoy me, I immediatly just smile and say "oh you!" in my head. :P It's weird, this forum has that effect on me, I ended up liking all the people I had/started arguments with over the years. It's like the bard said, I'm just a saccarine pussy in real life, lol. On the one hand it's cool because it really does feel like a community, but sometimes it's annoying because I feel guilty for venting at anonimous strangers, when ideally, I shouldn't. It's the internet, goddamnit, I shouldn't have to make sense here! @bryanee, sorry for being an asshole, I'm trying to become a better e-me. =\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I can see where you're coming from with learning to like the people you argue with. For one, Chairdriver and I fell into many arguments, but when he stopped posting I missed the antagonism. I never thought of it the other way around though. Thanks for the honesty. I really just intruded to try to pick a flaw in your argument, as I wasn't going to get into the whole objective/subjective argument I'm famous for. I can understand your point of view, I just have different opinions on how to apply the word "good" and it's synonyms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 So was Dredd. I'm actually just trolling. I probably would have found Dredd a lot less fun if it wasn't in the context of Judge Dredd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Look at us, being all mature and shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) I just watched this last night, really enjoyed it. Brilliant, honest, fast paced action film. No time wasted on fluff, padding or backstory. It was a film starring Judge Dredd, not a film about Judge Dredd. It was also one of the best comic-book-brought-to-life films in all manner of visuals, the luminescent smoke, some of the still shots (like the wall full of holes from the gatling guns), the immense HDR for the drug scenes. Urban was brilliant. Lena Headey might've been the weakest part of the film for me though. Loved her in SCC, but didn't feel like she had the strength of the part in this. I just couldn't picture the people around her letting her push them around. especially that ridiculous "wait for her to shoot you" scene... Hm, if I know the bit you're referring to, I think you misunderstood the scene? She pointed out that she had the window of Anderson's hesitation to kill her, because she had no reason to suspect her as a traitor. She was totally over confident and in the end the hesitation was briefer than expected because of the psychic element. Edited January 18, 2013 by Shorty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The Raid is a pure action film, no frills whatsoever, just pure action from start to finish. The only reason you probably didn't like it was that you must've watched Dredd first and were expecting something along the same lines... If Dredd was actually released first would you be fisting The Raid as much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReZourceman Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Let's not go there. One is a milestone and a masterclass on how to make a good action movie that's being hailed around the globe as one of the best action films in ages. The other's a pretty decent but ultimately irrelevant blockbuster. Now, I "get" that you especially might not like independent films or understand why The Raid's such an important achievement, as you obviously are "part of the problem", since you enjoy sterilized action movies like The Avengers, but there's no contest when it comes to Dredd vs The Raid, as what makes Dredd a decent movie is precisely that it attempts and somewhat succeeds to emulate that raw and gritty appeal that independent action films have and which The Raid so fully embodies. Personally, I didn't really preffer either of them, but The Raid is the superior product, no doubt. Daft was pretty much bang on with his one word review of inane. To expand, I like independent movies. The Raid was jaw dropping in places, and the fake wall/cubbie hole scene was fucking...in-fucking-credible, that was absolutely stunning. The violence was ott and amazing. But the actual story and execution...I mean, damn there was some fucking stupid ass scenes. The violence was far over gratuitous at times too, much more so than Dredd. The scene where the two brothers fight the dude....damn that was fucking stupid, and the actual choreography was disappointing (constant head scratching as to "what is the other brother doing right now....") they certainly try to keep it fresh but honestly, it becomes monotonous far too long before the credits roll. I am not saying it was bad by any means, it was breathlessly entertaining in its majority, but Dredd was tighter, cooler, more concise and less daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I've just bought The Raid. Shall check it out over the next coupla days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbob Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Watched Dredd last night, thought it was an excellent movie. Great cast, good story and overall brilliant. Can't say much more without spoiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Thought Dredd was brill. Thinking about getting Raid now if it's similar, see if i like it too. EDIT: Here is a cheap deal for the Dredd Blu ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Hm, if I know the bit you're referring to, I think you misunderstood the scene? She pointed out that she had the window of Anderson's hesitation to kill her, because she had no reason to suspect her as a traitor. She was totally over confident and in the end the hesitation was briefer than expected because of the psychic element. No, that's not the scene I'm talking about. I mean when one of the other judges shoots Dredd, his "last words" are wait, and after blabbering for 30 seconds, the gal turns up and kills him, and Dredd finished his sentence: "wait for her to shoot you". Corniest scene I've seen all year. If Dredd was actually released first would you be fisting The Raid as much? Ahah, no idea. But I'd preffer The Raid either way, since I'm all for grit and low-fi action. Daft was pretty much bang on with his one word review of inane. To expand, I like independent movies. The Raid was jaw dropping in places, and the fake wall/cubbie hole scene was fucking...in-fucking-credible, that was absolutely stunning. The violence was ott and amazing. But the actual story and execution...I mean, damn there was some fucking stupid ass scenes. The violence was far over gratuitous at times too, much more so than Dredd. The scene where the two brothers fight the dude....damn that was fucking stupid, and the actual choreography was disappointing (constant head scratching as to "what is the other brother doing right now....") they certainly try to keep it fresh but honestly, it becomes monotonous far too long before the credits roll. I am not saying it was bad by any means, it was breathlessly entertaining in its majority, but Dredd was tighter, cooler, more concise and less daft. Wait, what? Did you just use the word cool to describe Dredd? oO I liked the movie, but c'mon... it's the corniest thing I've seen since Wanted came out, dude... although the Dredd comics are what's to blame there, not the movie. As for the rest, I completely disagree. With pretty much everything. But this is a useless discussion since I'm well aware of your film appetites and how much they differ from mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Ahh yeah that scene. Hm I kinda thought they were playing on the whole bad-guy-ego-trip cliché, how they just can't shut up no matter what's on the line, happens in comic books and action films too often. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 This should make @Daft very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) SPREAD THE DREDD!!! I NEED A SEQUEL. THE WORLD NEEDS A SEQUAL. Edit: I could definitely lead a grass roots campaign with that slogan. Edited January 23, 2013 by Daft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Dredd 2: Direct To DVD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I think we can rest easy knowing that 2000AD would never let that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Gibbs Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I only got a chance to see this the other day when i bought the blueray WOW this film was good! there had best be a damn sequel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Ahah, no idea. But I'd preffer The Raid either way, since I'm all for grit and low-fi action. Just so I'm reading this right :p So if Dredd had come first and you had seen it first you would've still preferred The Rain because it isn't as science-y as Dredd is in the fiction department? Still haven't watched The Raid yet. Will do today. Promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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