MindFreak Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 50 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I agree. I know Furukawa mentioned adapting to changing circumstances and being fluid with how the industry moves (I'm paraphrasing), but I genuinely think Nintendo would be quite happy to keep pushing out hardware even if the rest of the industry has gone all in on streaming. It might be an option but I still think they consider themselves a toy maker. Interesting times for sure. I agree but then again, in a time where everything is streaming, there is room for a physical console as well. Also, it makes them possible to go places with no Internet of they have a physical media as well. 2
drahkon Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: Interesting. I wonder if that is still the plan, Microsoft changed their minds or Sony declined? You can bet your sweet ass that Sony declined. 3
killthenet Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 It makes you wonder why Microsoft are still investing in new dedicated hardware of their own if they're planning on Xbox being a service like Netflix that is available on a variety of other platforms. If the rumours about Scarlett are to be believed it will be two devices - one that is digital only and a higher end 'X' type console that provides more capable visuals alongside a disc drive, presumably the lower end device will be targeted more as a 'streaming' console and the higher end one will be the more traditional dedicated console. I suppose by offering new hardware with a streaming capability they can gauge how their consumers use the devices, whether people are ready yet for an all streaming future, but that only makes it stranger that they're planning on offering the service across not just Xbox and PC but smartphones and even other game consoles. Rolling it out to everything doesn't seem to signal that they're experimenting, it seems to signal that they're expecting it to become the industry standard. If this is all true it could create a seismic shift in the industry. 1
Ronnie Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 Netflix and other streaming services are hugely popular but DVDs and Blurays are still being sold around the world. It’ll be a decade or two before those disappear completely so Microsoft shifting their focus to streaming and getting their games on different platforms but also providing a dedicated box makes a lot of sense.
Nicktendo Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 I think it makes sense to have both, services and dedicated hardware. Look at what Apple are doing, they’re investing a lot of money in services alongside their dedicated hardware, which despite not being massively popular, has it’s dedicated fan base and audience. I think there’ll always be room for a Microsoft console in the marketplace, especially if, like the X, they go for a powerhouse. I reckon there’s a good 20-40 million potential customers who’d stay loyal to the brand and continue to buy consoles for the next 15-20 years. Especially when you can just sit back on the couch and play on a 70 inch beast 4K TV. In my opinion they know they’ll never beat Nintendo and Sony in terms of franchises, and this way they can maintain their loyal audience and expand their reach to other gamers as well. A really smart move to be honest. I know I’d be interested in Game Pass if it meant I could play Xbox games without buying the system. What’ll be really interesting is how it changes the industry. While I think there’ll always be room for dedicated hardware (especially if we talk about offline gaming), service based gaming is probably going to explode, just like Netflix did, and Microsoft is way ahead of the curve right now. 1
Hero-of-Time Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 More evidence that Ori is on the way... Quote Gematsu has also heard that a Switch version of Ori and the Blind Forest has appeared in at least one United Kingdom wholesale database under the distribution of THQ Nordic, which has worked with Microsoft in the past to publish PC titles on Steam. 1
Julius Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: More evidence that Ori is on the way... It's crazy just how quickly the story has developed in the last 24 hours. The conversation has evolved from "Hey, Xbox are going to announce Xbox Live coming to Switch, and iOS and Android devices, at GDC next month", which we learned a few weeks ago, to the Gematsu article referenced in your quote citing FIVE sources that have come out in the last day or so, and that's not even including themselves! Quote According to JeuxVideo, Microsoft and Nintendo executives have been having regular meetings, and while their conversations are not quite finished, several decisions have already been made, including the release of both Ori and the Blind Forest and Cuphead for Switch. The website further states that one of Microsoft’s three bigger franchises—Forza, Gears of War, or Halo—is also being considered for Switch, though in what form is unknown (port of a current generation title, port of an Xbox 360 title, exclusive spin-off, etc.). Xbox Game Pass and by extension the Project xCloud game streaming platform will reportedly be accessible to Switch players later this year. This would let Switch access the Xbox Game Pass lineup of titles through cloud streaming. Direct Feed Gaming also reported yesterday that Microsoft is bringing Ori and the Blind Forest and Xbox Game Pass to Switch. Game Informer sources have suggested that the announcement of Xbox Game Pass for Switch could come as soon as this year. Thurrott reported today that Microsoft is trying to expand where Xbox Game Pass is available, including Switch. While it could not explicitly confirm whether the service would come to Switch, it did say that Microsoft is planning substantial Xbox Game Pass announcements for E3 2019. And Windows Central reported that it has heard for almost a year that Microsoft has been aiming to bring Xbox Game Pass to Switch, and even PlayStation 4. It also heard that games like Ori and the Blind Forest and Cuphead are coming to Switch and may be used as test subjects for the new Xbox Live SDK for third-party developers, which will facilitate Xbox Live services on Switch and mobile devices. Gematsu has also heard that a Switch version of Ori and the Blind Forest has appeared in at least one United Kingdom wholesale database under the distribution of THQ Nordic, which has worked with Microsoft in the past to publish PC titles on Steam. Edited February 22, 2019 by Julius
Dcubed Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 I don't believe any of this. Why would they go 3rd party like this on Switch at the same time that they're trying to promote and release their new hardware? Literally shooting themselves in the foot both ways here. Makes absolutely no sense. 1
Ashley Posted February 22, 2019 Author Posted February 22, 2019 Although there would be something amusing about Microsoft making a better online service for the Switch than Nintendo 1 2
Ronnie Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Dcubed said: I don't believe any of this. Why would they go 3rd party like this on Switch at the same time that they're trying to promote and release their new hardware? Literally shooting themselves in the foot both ways here. Makes absolutely no sense. Read this, maybe that'll help: https://www.windowscentral.com/why-xbox-game-pass-nintendo-switch-and-other-systems-smart Too many sources have said it now for it not to be true.
Glen-i Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 27 minutes ago, Ronnie said: Too many sources have said it now for it not to be true. I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to Pokémon Stars... 4
Nicktendo Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) It makes perfect sense. Why sell ~30 million consoles, when you could sell a bit less than that and make $10 a month off potentially hundreds of millions? The rumour about Project Scarlett being a streaming device and a powerhouse is bleeding obvious to me now. Streaming box for the cheap, entry-level casuals, powerhouse for the hardcore, hi-tech couch-gamers. Both will be cheaper than power-PC and both will have a market. I honestly think this could be a revolutionary step by MS. They’ll be making a bit of cash off the hardware and a hell of a lot more off services. As I said above, I wouldn’t think twice about dropping a tenner a month on a “Netflix for games” like service if it had games that couldn’t be supported on the Switch and had an online service at the level of XBL. I’m desperate for a good racing game on the Switch and could be enticed by the likes of Sea of Theives and Crackdown 3. I’ve spent the last 3 years mulling over buying an Xbox One, even more so after Game Pass was revealed. I can’t justify the upfront costs as I just don’t have the time to dedicate to it, but I’ll happily drop a few quid a month to play Xbox games on my Switch or PC. This really could be a game changer and I hope they pull it off. Also, think about all the studios they’re buying up. In 3-4 years you’re going to start seeing all of these games releasing “only on Xbox Game Pass”. Want to play? Buy an Xbox or subscribe to Game Pass, play anywhere. Cross saves, cross play, start on Switch, play on the phone at work, see the ending in 4K on your Xbox. Seamless gaming. It’s genuinely exciting. Edited February 22, 2019 by Nicktendo 1
Julius Posted February 22, 2019 Posted February 22, 2019 46 minutes ago, Glen-i said: I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to Pokémon Stars... I think the biggest difference here is that listing for the event that they're holding next month at GDC about Xbox Live coming to other devices seems to naturally foreshadow a bigger move by Xbox as a whole. The description from the GDC listing, before it got taken down in a hurry: Quote Xbox Live is about to get MUCH bigger. Xbox Live is expanding from 400m gaming devices and a reach to over 68m active players to over 2bn devices with the release of our new cross-platform XDK. Get a first look at the SDK to enable game developers to connect players between iOS, Android, and Switch in addition to Xbox and any game in the Microsoft Store on Windows PCs. Game Informer allowing Imran Khan, their employee, to say something in an article posted on their site, I think, gives this a little bit more validity, simply because he doesn't just write about potential rumours on a regular basis -- and that's not to discredit the other sites, because they're all actually fairly reliable when it comes to gaming news, and Thurott and Windows Central for Xbox news in particular. On Stars, though, I think that the consensus around here is that Game Freak likely tested some stuff out on the Switch, and porting Sun and Moon in some form or another to the Switch to try some things out seems like a probable conclusion -- whether or not Emily Rogers or Eurogamer (I think it was them?) actually knew anything is an entirely different discussion, I guess that plus the whole "expect to see Virtual Console, plus GameCube games, by the end of Switch's first year!" thing is why I don't put too much stock in Eurogamer anymore, and there seemingly much more reliable sources than Emily Rogers these days.
Dcubed Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Glen-i said: I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to Pokémon Stars... But that DID come true... it was called Pokemon Ultra Sun/Moon! Everything about the rumour ended up being true (right down to the announcement & release timeframe and the inclusion of both new story events and new Ultra Beasts), with the platform being the only thing that was wrong (and that was probably a matter of crossed wires from seeing initial tests of the Gen 7 engine being ported to Switch; which probably did happen at some point). Game Freak are actually very leaky and have been ever since Gen 5... They’re very bad at keeping secrets and a LOT of early rumours from them are turning out to be true now (co-incidentally, it also started happening at around the same time that they hired a lot of foreigners and people who used to work at Genius Sonority...) Quote Read this, maybe that'll help: https://www.windowscentral.com/why-xbox-game-pass-nintendo-switch-and-other-systems-smart Too many sources have said it now for it not to be true @Ronnie, I can’t believe that this is true because according to those same sources, Microsoft are due to announce the next Xbox (as a two tiered SKU) this year; for a release in 2020. Why on earth would they do that; and then proceed to shoot themselves in the foot by announcing that they’re going 3rd party on Switch? What kind of insane strategy is this? Why would I buy an Xbox and get excited to buy an Xbox, if they go ahead and announce that they’re gonna start porting all of their games to Switch at the same time!? (Or even worse... before they formally unveil the next Xbox!) And all of this nonsense about Rare now coming back to Nintendo as part of this deal just screams of fan fiction. Besides, Nintendo have publically stated that they have no intention of continuing the line of classic mini consoles; that they were just a temporary line that was designed to fill a hole that was left by the failure of the Wii U. Nintendo is not taking back Rare; the people who made Rare what it is are no longer there anyway. I mean... if it were true; then this would be the single greatest paradigm shift that the industry has seen since the death of SEGA and the introduction of the original Xbox. Only thing that compares is the introduction of the Apple App Store. Sony would have to start reconsidering their entire business model if this move turned out to be true; as it would be a big step towards the commoditisation of traditional (i.e non-Nintendo/specialist) console gaming. And a big step away from traditional console gaming being driven by new and shiny hardware. Game Pass would become Sony’s biggest enemy, not retail games. They would have to triple down on PS Now and position it as their prime offering if they wanted to compete in the same space. It would be a truly disruptive innovation if true and a literal game changer. That’s how unbelievable this move is. We’d be talking about a complete seismic shift in how the traditional game market operates. Completely. Overnight! Excuse me for taking it with a pinch of salt!! Edited February 23, 2019 by Dcubed
Julius Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Dcubed said: I can’t believe that this is true because according to those same sources, Microsoft are due to announce the next Xbox (as a two tiered SKU) this year; for a release in 2020. Why on earth would they do that; and then proceed to shoot themselves in the foot by announcing that they’re going 3rd party on Switch? What kind of insane strategy is this? Why would I buy an Xbox and get excited to buy an Xbox, if they go ahead and announce that they’re gonna start porting all of their games to Switch at the same time!? (Or even worse... before they formally unveil the next Xbox!) I mean, for the same reason that anyone has bought an Xbox X, for instance, right? To play games on the most powerful home console available. We're quickly coming to the end of the third generation of Xbox consoles, and, I'll be frank: Microsoft didn't decide to get into the gaming business to be second best, and that's the best that they've managed in nearly twenty years. Let's just talk about the numbers of consoles sold here, and nothing else: the original Xbox (24 million) got trounced by the PS2 (over 150 million); the Xbox 360 (84 million) got jumped by the Wii (101 million), and despite the PS3's repeated attempts to off itself, it still nearly caught up (~84 million); and the Xbox One (~40 million) has been left in the dirt by the PS4 (94 million). They've put a dent in the console market and ushered in so many things that likely wouldn't have seen the light of day for a few more years otherwise (the way that they integrated online multiplayer with the original Xbox, or developed that into an online subscription-based service with the Xbox 360 come to mind), and have been at the cutting edge of technology since they started competing, but at this point, I just don't know what they could do really do to beat the Switch and PS5 by the end of the next generation. Don't get me wrong: I don't think consoles are going away, and they won't for a good while yet. But Microsoft's, and thus Xbox's, strengths lie in advancing technology and paving the way for others in that space. They didn't win the first battle, nor the second, or even the third -- but they're the only one of the Big Three with the financial clout and know-how to put something like this into place right now. I can watch Netflix on my phone, on my computer, on my TV...even on my Amazon Fire, despite the fact that it's a product manufactured by a direct competitor. I mean, imagine if Disney+ (Disney's new video streaming service) came out at the end of this year exclusively on mickeyPhones -- how bizarre a move would that be considered? The Netflix-style game streaming services speculated about to this point have missed one key element: ambition in scale. This is that scale that they need to succeed. The point isn't at all that Xbox Game Pass could be coming to Switch; the point is that it could be coming to just about everything. 2 1
Dcubed Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Julius said: I mean, for the same reason that anyone has bought an Xbox X, for instance, right? To play games on the most powerful home console available. We're quickly coming to the end of the third generation of Xbox consoles, and, I'll be frank: Microsoft didn't decide to get into the gaming business to be second best, and that's the best that they've managed in nearly twenty years. Let's just talk about the numbers of consoles sold here, and nothing else: the original Xbox (24 million) got trounced by the PS2 (over 150 million); the Xbox 360 (84 million) got jumped by the Wii (101 million), and despite the PS3's repeated attempts to off itself, it still nearly caught up (~84 million); and the Xbox One (~40 million) has been left in the dirt by the PS4 (94 million). They've put a dent in the console market and ushered in so many things that likely wouldn't have seen the light of day for a few more years otherwise (the way that they integrated online multiplayer with the original Xbox, or developed that into an online subscription-based service with the Xbox 360 come to mind), and have been at the cutting edge of technology since they started competing, but at this point, I just don't know what they could do really do to beat the Switch and PS5 by the end of the next generation. Don't get me wrong: I don't think consoles are going away, and they won't for a good while yet. But Microsoft's, and thus Xbox's, strengths lie in advancing technology and paving the way for others in that space. They didn't win the first battle, nor the second, or even the third -- but they're the only one of the Big Three with the financial clout and know-how to put something like this into place right now. I can watch Netflix on my phone, on my computer, on my TV...even on my Amazon Fire, despite the fact that it's a product manufactured by a direct competitor. I mean, imagine if Disney+ (Disney's new video streaming service) came out at the end of this year exclusively on mickeyPhones -- how bizarre a move would that be considered? The Netflix-style game streaming services speculated about to this point have missed one key element: ambition in scale. This is that scale that they need to succeed. The point isn't at all that Xbox Game Pass could be coming to Switch; the point is that it could be coming to just about everything. True... I mean, the whole reason why they got into the industry in the first place was to counter Sony and protect Windows... ... but with Google looking to enter the fray with their streaming solution, their lack of success at retail this generation and the company-wide shift towards subscription services (like Office 365 and Azure), this kind of shift does tie into that... ... but then why bother releasing a new console at all then? That’s what I don’t get. Why bother losing money on hardware if you’re planning on fully transitioning to becoming a subscription streaming service? Hell, they’re even apparently doing native ports of their games to Switch! It’s not even a matter of needing bespoke hardware to provide a “physical” copy of a game here; it just seems to run counter to the idea of having their own hardware. Why bother buying an Xbox if it has no exclusive titles? Sure, the Xbox consoles still have a place, even when their titles are also being released on PC (as there is a huge audience of people that would never consider jumping over to PC), but if you’re going to be supporting your rival’s console? Well... it doesn’t serve much of a purpose anymore does it? Bespoke hardware, or pure platform agnostication. Pick one. That’s how I see it. Edited February 23, 2019 by Dcubed
Glen-i Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 53 minutes ago, Dcubed said: ... but then why bother releasing a new console at all then? That’s what I don’t get. Something for the graphic whores? You know, those people who think a Switch that only works in docked mode but runs in 4K is a better idea than a hybrid console. 2
bob Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 I wonder if you'll need to have a Nintendo online subscription first?
Glen-i Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, bob said: I wonder if you'll need to have a Nintendo online subscription first? I'd say it'd be a decent perk for Nintendo.
Ronnie Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 Trouble with this deal is Nintendo will end up losing sales on their own third party software, so I imagine Microsoft will have to pay them a fair amount to get Game Pass on there. Otherwise why would anyone buy Rocket League, as one example, on Switch when you can just load the Game Pass app and play it there for free.
Mandalore Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 How would a "Netflix for games" work exactly? Would the games run natively on the hardware, or would it all be streamed? If the latter, I'd take playing it on an actual Xbox to streaming it on something else any day.
Glen-i Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 22 minutes ago, Mandalore said: How would a "Netflix for games" work exactly? Would the games run natively on the hardware, or would it all be streamed? If the latter, I'd take playing it on an actual Xbox to streaming it on something else any day. Probably streaming, going by the general consensus.
Nicktendo Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mandalore said: How would a "Netflix for games" work exactly? Would the games run natively on the hardware, or would it all be streamed? If the latter, I'd take playing it on an actual Xbox to streaming it on something else any day. This is one question I have too. I imagine for bigger games, they'll be streamed (thinking of Forza, GOW etc), but for indies, surely they'd just download to the system if they can run natively? Though it would certainly require extra work. This is why game scaling is so interesting, if a game is able to run on many devices and can scale accordingly, it makes sense to let it run natively on the hardware. This also gives you the added bonus of playing off-line (maybe you'll have to check in once every 24 hours). I still don't think the infrastructure is quite there for full scale game streaming, in the coming years, it certainly makes sense. It's obvious what Microsoft gains from this, but I do wonder what's in it for Nintendo (besides a bigger library and probably better online), more importantly, what they're giving Microsoft, if anything. The fact that sales of e-shop games could potentially be diminished could be a worry from a 3rd party standpoint. E3 is going to be interesting this year.
Glen-i Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Nicktendo said: It's obvious what Microsoft gains from this, but I do wonder what's in it for Nintendo (besides a bigger library and probably better online), more importantly, what they're giving Microsoft, if anything. Man, can you imagine if they agreed to put the NES online app on an XBox console? That would just be nuts! With crossplay support to boot! Great, now I want that and I don't even own an XBox... Edited February 23, 2019 by Glen-i
Dcubed Posted February 23, 2019 Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Ronnie said: Trouble with this deal is Nintendo will end up losing sales on their own third party software, so I imagine Microsoft will have to pay them a fair amount to get Game Pass on there. Otherwise why would anyone buy Rocket League, as one example, on Switch when you can just load the Game Pass app and play it there for free. Supposedly Nintendo are getting a cut of Game Pass playtime/subscription revenue from Game Pass on their platform; going by the rumours...
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