Coolness Bears Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Strange as it may sound this is a thread about the Art of Conversation. Is it something you get better at as you get older? Are there people who when younger.. or perhaps when my age who were shy and couldn't sentance form well? My mum is an out going person but she tells me when she was my age she was quiet and resereved. I want to shake this off and to be able to engage people in interesting conversations but more often than not I can't get the words out and BOOM they think I'm brainless. Then when they do I say things like... "I like the smell of Sellotape on my fingers" Which promptly ends the conversation and causes them to quickly run in the opposite direction. To try and have a real conversation I have to form the sentance in my head which is annoying. I think I'm getting better at it now I don't say such odd things and actually greet the person with a hello but that's as far as it normally goes as shyness still gets the better of me more often than not and I find it hard to keep a conversation going... I really want to talk more but often find myself left out of conversations when I have stuff to say! I like a lot of the stuff that is posted on here but often get my points muddled to contibute in a good discussion. For example in that 13 year old Jesus child thread, I watched but I find it hard to coherence. see? Only time I'm not shy is when I talk nonsense and random tangents (Re: How was your day!) and so I want to take that confidence I get from my energy surge and turn it into proper discussions! Anyone have this? and any tips/advice at how to get better at the art of conversation as it where? Thanks! : peace: (I hope this thread makes sense!)
jayseven Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) Made some sense. I scan-read the post, admittedly. You definitely get better at conversations as you get older. You start to learn about what small-talk is most appropriate (at uni, the three questions you will use the most are "What are you studying?", "where are you from?" and "where are you living?", in later years these are replaced by "what will you do after uni?", "how's the dissertation?" and "where you living next year?"). Also, I think being able to read body language improves conversational skills. You can tell if someone isn't comfortable about what the discussion is about, you can tell if they're bored, or if they don't even like you. The sporadic, random utterances that you seem to say... well if they're in the middle of a conversation then the other person may be silent because they are thinking "... oh, so what we were talking about isn't good enough eh!", or because they haven't been prepared (by the careful steering of the talk) to contribute yet. I think the 'steering' is the skill that is best learned. If you are talking about, say, hospitals, and you want to talk about some tidbit of a memory that spawned as the words were uttered, then to be polite you can't just jump back to a previous sentance or five, you ought to steer the conversation back via new avenues (and, of course, be fully willing to let your thing drop if the course is an entirely new direction. The joy of communication!). There is indeed a certain tact, a certain method of rhetoric that is greatly useful in utilising. I love talking to people, especially when they have things to say that are new to me. I love it when I only know the scraping surface of a topic that they know well, especially when they are surprised to hear that I know anything at all. But truthfully, I rarely talk about what I really want to talk about. I feel very egotistical when I'm the one talking the most, so I like to listen. I think. I could be totally wrong, and people could think I'm an utter dickwad for convo-steering. While I think I do it subtly, they might actually see it for what it is. AH! So yeah. If I ever meet any of you, I swear it's for your own good. EDIT: Went back and read it. Shyness is easly surmounted. I tend to have a problem in saying "hello" in my normal voice. I'm pretty sure the woman in the newsagent has NEVER heard my real accent. So long as you are actually listening to a conversation, you shall be fine. I think people appreciate just being listened to, even if you have nothing to say - but if you sit and stare like a statue then.. no. No good. You shouldn't need to form an entire sentance in your head first. Get the gist going, then open your mouth. The english language was practically built for real-time editing; just start saying "er, but, what i mean to say is, in a sense, the thing is, if you know what I mean, a sort of, you know, but, like, yeah" (not the whole thing) and you give your brain time enough to process. In all honesty, your OP is probably full of the WORST sentance structure I've ever seen you write. Random tangents are fine but after a while, your partner conversationist will be annoyed that you are not heeding to their points. 'Not thinking' is hella hard, but my favourite pastime. Ultimately you can't be held too responsible for what you've said if you've been more honest than "fuck you" or "i like bees". Ok I'm not making any sense at all anymore. latermore. Edited April 19, 2009 by jayseven
Coolness Bears Posted April 19, 2009 Author Posted April 19, 2009 Awesome that makes a lot of sense, what you are saying. Your first point they are good conversation starters but I've had those and I don't go anywhere from that. I think I need to give more in a conversation. My body language while talking to someone is distant and it looks as if I'm bored even if I'm really interested which is what probably puts some people off as I have this air of "not caring what they are saying" I think last year more than this year I would go up to someone and already think that they think that I'm weird so I'd then say something weird to then make them think I AM weird and thus proving myself correct even though I was wrong, that was a bad spiral... I'm getting better but I still feel when I'm talking that I'm boring someone. I've been told countless times I have a monotone voice which has been drummed in a little by now. So it's hard to shake out of the back of my head. I'm hoping at Uni things will change. I think they will. I've been at my school for 7 Years and I've always been known as the quiet/odd/scary looking guy. I'm really not! (honest!) It is hard to get rid of that stigma and suddenly start dancing about. Thanks for the advice on the steering of conversation. That is exactly what I do I get someone talking to me and all of a sudden they are chatting then *INSERT SIMPSONS QUOTE HERE* I shout whatever out confusing them. I often listen to my friend at school. he is very talkative. I rarely speak about anything I like most people would not know what I like since Year 7 which is "Nintendo" In a conversation do you have to be giving as well? For some reason I've learnt not to trust people with information about myself. When people asked where I lived I'd say a competely different address no idea why. I can often steer the conversation away from me and some people do want to get to know me I just ruin the chance for them as it is often one word answers, when I want it to be more!
Dyson Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I've read your first post and taken it all in and fully understand but can;t think of any real advice. I used to be the same. You get used to when random outbursts are welcome and when they become irritating.
Coolness Bears Posted April 19, 2009 Author Posted April 19, 2009 I've read your first post and taken it all in and fully understand but can;t think of any real advice. I used to be the same. You get used to when random outbursts are welcome and when they become irritating. How was your day syndrome? :p
jayseven Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Regarding body language; Personally, I think I maintain too much eye contact, but that's because I lip-read and stuff. I know, lips and eyes are different but.. too long to explain. I think showing that you're following the conversation by nodding and smiling -- and just simply grunts of yes/no will show the partner talker that you aren't pretending to play tetris with the chairs in the room in your BRAIN. Being weird is good. Weird just means different, or unusual, and who the fuck wants to be usual? Just don't define yourself as weird because, frankly, it's a very all-engrossing term that does nothing to depict who you are. People can get used to the 'air of not looking like you care what they're saying' if you can actually show that you do care what they're saying with your response. by listening to what they verbally italicise and enunciate (that's not a link lol) you can focus on what it is that they specifically want to elaborate on, and either probe further with questions or provide your own associated annecdotes. If you feel that you have a monotone voice then no doubt you will either exaggerate with ott gestures of with occasional, sporadic tonal fluctuations in your voice. Again, people may take a while to get used to that but provided you are an interesting person (as you are) and that you are talking to them for reasons beyond talking about yourself (as you ought to) then they will overlook that. When you go to uni you'll meet a wide range of people that are all new-born, too, who will be judging you just as much as they are scared of being judged by you. Just find confidence in yourself (which I'd be surprised if you lacked any, for you know this forum loves you) and what you say. Also in regards to the monotone voice; that might also just stem from your fear of sounding boring-- you're practically 'listening' to their silent reaction more than you're concentrating on making your talk interesting. It should come naturally, but if you don't feel settled then it won't. To get around that... well it's hard to say. People will be more attentive and less distracted by your tone when you are talking about them, and again tonal EMPHASIS on key phrases/words will keep their attention focused. Cultural references, I find, are like in-jokes. If you haven't established that the person you are talking to is a simpsons fan then shouting out a probably-obscure reference will either make no sense at all, or make them feel stupid for not knowing the reference, or make you seem obsessed by the simpsons :P Verbalising an obsession in that way only tells the person that you are obsessive, and the obsession matters not, but that's another thing. Your definition of 'giving' in a conversation is different to mine, I think. You assign 'giving' to be somewhat of a sacrificial term; not lending someone some information but giving it away, as if what happens to it is totally out of your control. For sure, you shouldn't 'give' everything away, but you shouldn't feel like every detail of your life is seriously worth all that much because truth be told, it's not. Most poeple are obsessed about their own lives. it is perhaps polite to also share about your life in order to show the other person that their life is worth something... if you see what I mean? Like, someone tells you a secret then tell them one back to show them that you are trustworthy? I dunno if that makes sense. This is a long post, again, and that's annoying. C_B; college for me was one thing, for you it's another. People are, generally, very strange. University provides another level of challenges, and while daunting I think so long as you just remember that you aren't the only person in the conversation, I think you'll do fine. At uni you discover more about yourself than anyone else. EDIT: As a two-hour-later footnote... Er, yeah; Recognising and mobilising upon the participating speaker's dialect/register is very useful. I mean, if a guy says "dude" or "man" all teh time, then repeating these utterances when replying/spurring a new conversation will make them more at ease. Knowing whether the person you are speaking to is going understand long words or not helps, too. I mean... if you listen to how someone talks then you know how they talk. people find it easier to listen to vocabulary that is similar to theirs. Like, I mean, saying "mate" instead of "bruv" or "dude", but expanding from just identifying how they like to be addressed. Length of sentances, whether they focus heavier on nouns or adjectives or whatever... discussing these theories behind conversations is a lot more complicated than what actually goes on. Half of this occurs naturally, subconsciously, unknowingly anyway! There's no direct point; I just highly recommend that at any time someone says something to you, you say something back. That's the easiest way to enter a conversation. As for holding it? Each to his own.
Ganepark32 Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Oh how sad an existance I live for I read this entire thing. Anyways, I can relate to what you're saying Coolness. I sometimes found that in the company of friends and such I can't really interject into a conversation because I feel that what I have to say won't either be understood or be shrugged off as being purile or something. As a result, it's caused me to sit back a bit more in conversations and this isn't a bad thing. I'm normally a very quier person, even during a conversation where I'll sometimes just sit and listen with the occasional 'yeh' or 'uh-huh' to show I am listening and taking it in but have nothing to reply with. However, this sitting back has allowed me to sort of develop the way in which I speak around people. It's like you're listening to how people talk, how they structure their words, etc. and it's an instant learning thing that after a certain point I feel comfortable to say something, knowing with confidence that it's not going to be thrown away. Basically, as J7 has said, the art of conversation and how we as people construct what we say is indeed something that develops with time and I'm personally of the opinion that in a conversation, even if you feel what you have to say isn't relevant (for example your simpsons' quote) you should just say it because it acts as a testing ground for furtherment in not only your conversation and what you should and shouldn't say but also for what those participating should and shouldn't say. If you want to say something, regardless of what it is, I'd just say it. Unless it's going to be offensive.
Supergrunch Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 This thread is fascinating. Coolness, I think one of the problems is that while conversation comes naturally to many people, to some it really doesn't, and it can be very frustrating if you're in this second group. Nonetheless, it's by no means an insurmountable difficulty, and all the time such people can and do learn to do what others manage innately. While to a certain extent advice can help you here (and the advice that has already been given is very much worth following), the only way you can really learn is by throwing yourself into conversations and just having a go at interacting, and trying to ignore any discomfort you may experience in doing this. Of course some pointers are always useful, and on top of what you've already been told, it helps to try and remember the purpose of conversation, which is largely twofold: to exchange information, and (perhaps more primarily) as a sort of social lubrication device. The first of these is easy - everyone has things they're interested in, and perhaps the only major barrier to talking about such things is how to formulate your thoughts in language, which becomes easier the more comfortable with language you are - perhaps you could try reading a lot of varied things if you're having difficulties with this. The second, however, is harder, as it's proverbially not about what you say, but how (and indeed when) you say it. Hence the rules hear are more difficult to learn, and have to be picked up by observing other people and mimicking what they do to a certain extent. Also try to remember that (assuming it's a friendly conversation), the purpose is to promote amicable interaction, so as long as you're managing this, you can't be going too far wrong. This can still be an incredibly difficult skill to master, and as a result I continue to have difficulties with small talk, especially with people I don't know well. Nevertheless, I'm gradually improving, and I'm sure that with time (and a little effort), you'll also become more happy with having conversations.
Paj! Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I have (had) speech problems, so I've found conversation/speech difficult. I tend to slur or mumble my words if I speak too fast. And I speak from the back of my throat, so I'm pretty quiet, and basiclaly can't be heard in nightclub/gig type situations. Sometimes there's not enough air in my mouth to allow me to say a word. That only happens sometimes though, and not like...mid-sentence. Only when I'm about to add or interject something. Sometimes I can't. If it's a fast-paced conversation. This has caused a lack of confidence in my life, but not so much anymore.
darksnowman Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I didn't actually read everything, but I think I got the jist of it. Tbh, I tend to just let people talk to me about what they want to talk about, then if/ when I'm talking to them again I have an idea of what topics to question them about... or if they don't need any encouragement, I just let them spin me a yarn about whatever they want to spout. Works for me cos I don't really feel I have anything to offer and listening ain't a problem! Like jayseven said, body language is useful. Also, other key questions that come after those university ones he put forth are what did you do at the weekend, what are you doing at the weekend, what did you do last night, what are you doing tonight? Then if there are holidays or have just been holidays its what did you get up to over the holidays, have you any plans for the holidays? My answer to all of the above is that I surfed/ will be surfing the Internet which is a bit of a conversation killer right there. The art of conversation then is just to listen to others, be interested in what they have to say and that will make them feel good. C. Bears, just replace your wacky phrases with some yeahs and the odd how did that go? and you may yet be a renowned conversationalist! I tend to slur or mumble my words if I speak too fast. I think I do this a bit. Atleast it can sound to me like I do, lol. I find that its cos I need to put more focus than I naturally do on talking because it can feel like my mind has already said what I want my mouth to express and I'm thinking about a million different things at the same time, meaning conversation is basically an afterthought. I can still listen (and remember)... its just when its my turn to say something that my brain won't quieten down and let my mouth do the talking!
Paj! Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I'm also just way more interested in listening/observing than joining in when I have nothing to say.
Gizmo Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Skimmed the thread. Too lazy to read it all right now :p I think what you're trying to say is you don't know how to keep a conversation going when it's about nothing in particular? (ie "small talk"). If so, thats something that I'm terrible with too. If I'm sitting at the hairdressers talking about the weather or holidays or whatever it always comes to an awkward silence. I'm happy enough to not break this, as I don't care that my hairdresser is going to Spain next week, but I can tell it makes them feel uncomfortable. I just don't have the art of conversation, of keeping it going when theres nothing in particular to talk about - in a discussion about the pros and cons of socialism I'm entirely happy, as theres always something more to add to something like that. But talking about the weather? I can't do that at all.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I really stink at small talk, too, but this is outweighed by an almost natural ability to turn the current subject into something more meaningful that I like to talk about or discuss.
Paj! Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Yeah I'm rubbish with small talk. I'm fairly friendly with my hairdresser, but I never chat with her when she's doing my hair.
Raining_again Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I usually go for the "how is <family member's name/work/study> doing these days?" then they go off on a talk about that. Cue some nods, laughs and smiles.
Coolness Bears Posted April 19, 2009 Author Posted April 19, 2009 Oh no! I'd just replied to everyone and then accidently copied and pasted something irrelevant! Gah, That has taken me all afternoon. I'll try again later! I new I should have saved it!
Dante Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Sucks man! The boards need save file option or undone option.
Cube Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Sucks man! The boards need save file option or undone option. Ctrl + Z and Ctrl + Y. Works wonders in Firefox. As for the topic, I seem to do fine in conversations now. I'm still incredibly shy but I'm a lot better than I used to be.
Slaggis Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I used to find it incredibly hard to have a normal conversation with someone I wasn't really close with because the stammer I used to have affected my confidence so much. Thanfully now, it's almost completely gone, apart from the odd thing now and then.
Ganepark32 Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I don't know about anyone else but I hate people who small talk. My mother is guilty of this. Small talk is just a way of trying to force a conversation. As I would say, I'd rather sit in silence than have to put up with small talk because the majority of the time it's so impersonal. No need to force a conversation with it. A conversation should come naturally, which is why I hardly ever talk back to my mother when she starts small talking.
Mr_Odwin Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 I worked as a missionary for my church for two years and in that time I had a lot of conversations with strangers, where it was often strained. When I would go into these situations I would try to build a relationship of trust by looking for what I had in common with them, or what their interests were and asking questions about them/it. That was a great weapon, to get someone talking about what they love. I still do that these days. Also, I find that the best way to get someone to flow into a conversation is to ask open ended questions rather than ones that can be answered with a "yes" or "no." When people are asked open ended questions they will give you a little part of themselves in their answers. If they someone has a hobby, why do they like it? etc There's another part to my conversation though, and that is where I have decided that people are interested in me. In fact they may not be, but if I assume that they are then when the opportunity arises I can give my opinion on something, and I assume that they want to hear it, that they are interested in my part of the chat. I think it's a bit like how Ashley has decided that he is awesome (or something to that effect) - just act like it is true, and it may end up that way.
Coolness Bears Posted April 20, 2009 Author Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) Okay this time I didn't copy and paste this wrong! and put it in word first so I apologise for taking a bit more time to reply. Thanks for all the help there is great advice in here. Too much text! Then you are not going to like what is about to come. :p EDIT: Went back and read it. Shyness is easly surmounted. I tend to have a problem in saying "hello" in my normal voice. I'm pretty sure the woman in the newsagent has NEVER heard my real accent. So long as you are actually listening to a conversation, you shall be fine. I think people appreciate just being listened to, even if you have nothing to say - but if you sit and stare like a statue then.. no. No good. You shouldn't need to form an entire sentance in your head first. Get the gist going, then open your mouth. The english language was practically built for real-time editing; just start saying "er, but, what i mean to say is, in a sense, the thing is, if you know what I mean, a sort of, you know, but, like, yeah" (not the whole thing) and you give your brain time enough to process. In all honesty, your OP is probably full of the WORST sentance structure I've ever seen you write. Random tangents are fine but after a while, your partner conversationist will be annoyed that you are not heeding to their points. 'Not thinking' is hella hard, but my favourite pastime. Ultimately you can't be held too responsible for what you've said if you've been more honest than "fuck you" or "i like bees". Ok I'm not making any sense at all anymore. latermore. At the bit in bold, I did that for effect, to highlight the point! Okay so I just need to acknowledge that I'm listening to the person. (which is harder than it sounds) I've gotten used to not reacting as those who know me expect that but I want to change that fact! I always used to put on a voice in the shops as an attempt to sound manly but it just ended up like Mr Bean. :p So I know where your coming from with that newsagents thing! Ahh when I think about what I say that is when people have good conversations with me otherwise it comes out like... YOU FEDDER REDDER GERTA RATA! (simpsons references I apologise) and also BEES? You lost me at that point unless you were highlighting the fact that wild tangents can often make a person feel lost in a conversation? Regarding body language; Personally, I think I maintain too much eye contact, but that's because I lip-read and stuff. I know, lips and eyes are different but.. too long to explain. I think showing that you're following the conversation by nodding and smiling -- and just simply grunts of yes/no will show the partner talker that you aren't pretending to play tetris with the chairs in the room in your BRAIN. Ah yes, I rarely look at a person when they are talking to me... :/ Which is definately rude but I feel locked in if I stare at them plus my eyes are intense! Okay even my friend when he says stuff and don't respond he goes are you listening/even interested? The thing is I find it hard to show excitement. (Unless Cats are said to be aboard trains) For example if someone told me that I'd just won the lottery I'd shrug and continue eating but inwardsly I'd be like: OMJOMJOMOMJOMJOJMOJMOJMOMJ! Being weird is good. Weird just means different, or unusual, and who the fuck wants to be usual? Just don't define yourself as weird because, frankly, it's a very all-engrossing term that does nothing to depict who you are. True. I know that now but last year, I just thought I was weird. Which made things harder as I'd enter into a conversation already thinking that they think I'm weird so I then did something weird and that made them think i WAS weird thus proving me right, even though I was wrong! Plus I like being different and everyone has their own idiosyncrasis's which is what makes humans so fascinating it e boring if everyone was like Me or you or whoever. Variety is the Spice of Life etc. It reminds of the poster in one of the classrooms at school that says You are unique just like everyone else. People can get used to the 'air of not looking like you care what they're saying' if you can actually show that you do care what they're saying with your response. by listening to what they verbally italicise and enunciate (that's not a link lol) you can focus on what it is that they specifically want to elaborate on, and either probe further with questions or provide your own associated annecdotes. Damn I tried to click the link. I try to probe with questions but they are often so pointless, I need to arm myself with better questions. :p My friend has gotten used to it, but that has taken about 6 Years and my other friend about 14! If you feel that you have a monotone voice then no doubt you will either exaggerate with ott gestures of with occasional, sporadic tonal fluctuations in your voice. Again, people may take a while to get used to that but provided you are an interesting person (as you are) and that you are talking to them for reasons beyond talking about yourself (as you ought to) then they will overlook that. When you go to uni you'll meet a wide range of people that are all new-born, too, who will be judging you just as much as they are scared of being judged by you. Just find confidence in yourself (which I'd be surprised if you lacked any, for you know this forum loves you) and what you say. KNEE has definately given me confidence over the years, I formulate much more opinions now and I'm not afraid of what to say. (just find it hard to say.) Thanks guys! : peace: I'm not a fan of talking about myself, really. I do talk about myself on here more though. Guranteed you'd know more about me than people I'd been going to school with for 7 years! When I first joined I was shocked that people actually wanted to listen to what I had to say. I'm still surprised a bit now. Also in regards to the monotone voice; that might also just stem from your fear of sounding boring-- you're practically 'listening' to their silent reaction more than you're concentrating on making your talk interesting. It should come naturally, but if you don't feel settled then it won't. To get around that... well it's hard to say. People will be more attentive and less distracted by your tone when you are talking about them, and again tonal EMPHASIS on key phrases/words will keep their attention focused. Aye it is definately from a fear of sounding boring. I can here myself in my head saying "That's not interesting, no one cares" I think I just need Ye' old rejig of my Cognition and I should be able to shake that apple tree for the scrumping. (I've now lost myself) Cultural references, I find, are like in-jokes. If you haven't established that the person you are talking to is a simpsons fan then shouting out a probably-obscure reference will either make no sense at all, or make them feel stupid for not knowing the reference, or make you seem obsessed by the simpsons :P Verbalising an obsession in that way only tells the person that you are obsessive, and the obsession matters not, but that's another thing. I have a beautiful slice of an awkward cultural reference caught on camera. it is my 18th Birthday party my mum has just made a wonderful speech she asks me "Is there anything I'd like to say?" I look up at everyone there and say... "TONIGHT IS GOING TO BE LEGENDARY! WAIT FOR IT.... DARY!" It was met with the biggest awkward silence I've ever had to endure in my life. This is where my random confidence kicks in though because a lot of people would be embarrassed by that I wasn't really affected. I actually think looking back at the tape it is comic genius. :p Your definition of 'giving' in a conversation is different to mine, I think. You assign 'giving' to be somewhat of a sacrificial term; not lending someone some information but giving it away, as if what happens to it is totally out of your control. For sure, you shouldn't 'give' everything away, but you shouldn't feel like every detail of your life is seriously worth all that much because truth be told, it's not. Most poeple are obsessed about their own lives. it is perhaps polite to also share about your life in order to show the other person that their life is worth something... if you see what I mean? Like, someone tells you a secret then tell them one back to show them that you are trustworthy? I dunno if that makes sense. This is a long post, again, and that's annoying. Then you are not going to like my reply! I don't trust people and I'm unsure why no one has ever done anything to break my trust. This is definately unfair and why should they trust me if I don't trust them. I think I'm improving all the time in that regards though like giving out my real place where I live. I wouldn't say I'm obessed with my own life, more that I'm taken back when some one does show an interest I enter in like "Why do you want to know that?" not thanks for taking interest in me! Thanks, I'll definately try the whole giving/sharing secret thing. I did actually yesterday and it worked some what. C_B; college for me was one thing, for you it's another. People are, generally, very strange. University provides another level of challenges, and while daunting I think so long as you just remember that you aren't the only person in the conversation, I think you'll do fine. At uni you discover more about yourself than anyone else. I think Uni will be different. You see to try this new art of conversation now is a little odd as I've grown up with the stigma for the past seven years as the quiet guy who's opinion is not really needed in this conversation it is hard to get rid of that idea and to suddenly dance the linguistical dance is too much of a change. Accidently deleted that last bit but you were talking about emulating the mannerisms of the person talking to you so they feel much more at home within the conversation and not using either too sophisticated words or acting like you are down with the kids. I had one such occasion the other day when I used the word Macabre and people just got lost at that point... I didn't think that was a very challenging word though. Thanks for the advice Jayseven! Oh how sad an existance I live for I read this entire thing. Anyways, I can relate to what you're saying Coolness. I sometimes found that in the company of friends and such I can't really interject into a conversation because I feel that what I have to say won't either be understood or be shrugged off as being purile or something. As a result, it's caused me to sit back a bit more in conversations and this isn't a bad thing. I'm normally a very quier person, even during a conversation where I'll sometimes just sit and listen with the occasional 'yeh' or 'uh-huh' to show I am listening and taking it in but have nothing to reply with. However, this sitting back has allowed me to sort of develop the way in which I speak around people. It's like you're listening to how people talk, how they structure their words, etc. and it's an instant learning thing that after a certain point I feel comfortable to say something, knowing with confidence that it's not going to be thrown away. I like this. Sit back and observe the conversation so you get to know who you will get what and things. It seems simple but I often jump in with something irrelevant! Basically, as J7 has said, the art of conversation and how we as people construct what we say is indeed something that develops with time and I'm personally of the opinion that in a conversation, even if you feel what you have to say isn't relevant (for example your simpsons' quote) you should just say it because it acts as a testing ground for furtherment in not only your conversation and what you should and shouldn't say but also for what those participating should and shouldn't say. If you want to say something, regardless of what it is, I'd just say it. Unless it's going to be offensive. Lets just say that greeting someone by calling them an arsonist and then subsquentially the next thing you say to them is a joke about them and rehypnol... THAT doesn't go down well... trust me on that one! : peace: This thread is fascinating. Coolness, I think one of the problems is that while conversation comes naturally to many people, to some it really doesn't, and it can be very frustrating if you're in this second group. Nonetheless, it's by no means an insurmountable difficulty, and all the time such people can and do learn to do what others manage innately. While to a certain extent advice can help you here (and the advice that has already been given is very much worth following), the only way you can really learn is by throwing yourself into conversations and just having a go at interacting, and trying to ignore any discomfort you may experience in doing this. I have definately done this more this year than last year and as a result more people find me funny rather than just the creep who sits in the corner with a fork to his face. (also buying your enemies icecream tends to help) Aye it does get annoying being the 3rd wheel. You know what I mean? like you start wandering if I wasn't there it wouldn't really matter. That is why I want to boost up my conversational skills so that people are excited to talk to me rather than talk to me just because I'm there with my friend who is the person they actually want to see. Of course some pointers are always useful, and on top of what you've already been told, it helps to try and remember the purpose of conversation, which is largely twofold: to exchange information, and (perhaps more primarily) as a sort of social lubrication device. The first of these is easy - everyone has things they're interested in, and perhaps the only major barrier to talking about such things is how to formulate your thoughts in language, which becomes easier the more comfortable with language you are - perhaps you could try reading a lot of varied things if you're having difficulties with this. The second, however, is harder, as it's proverbially not about what you say, but how (and indeed when) you say it. Hence the rules hear are more difficult to learn, and have to be picked up by observing other people and mimicking what they do to a certain extent. Also try to remember that (assuming it's a friendly conversation), the purpose is to promote amicable interaction, so as long as you're managing this, you can't be going too far wrong. This can still be an incredibly difficult skill to master, and as a result I continue to have difficulties with small talk, especially with people I don't know well. Nevertheless, I'm gradually improving, and I'm sure that with time (and a little effort), you'll also become more happy with having conversations. Firstly you just randomly reminded me of... LINGUO IS DEAD! (any excuse!) Now on with the serious stuff. I get what you are saying and I have done that before and you do get talking to people about it. I found out once that someone watched How I Met Your Mother once by shouting out Naked Man which started up a conversation that may not have happened. I'm up for trying out new things as well. So at Uni hopefully I can joine a fair few societies. Equally however I think it is good to hide your talents, as it where. For example if someone says they like The Simpsons I will explode and go all nerdcore and probably alienate the person so sometimes it is best to hold back as flooding someone with knowledge makes them feel inadequate! (I can't help it sometimes) Thanks for the advice Supergrunch! I have (had) speech problems, so I've found conversation/speech difficult. I tend to slur or mumble my words if I speak too fast. And I speak from the back of my throat, so I'm pretty quiet, and basiclaly can't be heard in nightclub/gig type situations. Sometimes there's not enough air in my mouth to allow me to say a word. That only happens sometimes though, and not like...mid-sentence. Only when I'm about to add or interject something. Sometimes I can't. If it's a fast-paced conversation. This has caused a lack of confidence in my life, but not so much anymore. I have a soft quiet voice to and people get lost as to what I'm saying as a result. I'm not one for shouting, I've tried. Even at football matches if arsenal scores I go to cheer and I stand up but nothing comes out nothing! Gah. I've got that as well sometimes I really want to say something and physically cannot get the word out of my mouth. I didn't actually read everything, but I think I got the jist of it. Tbh, I tend to just let people talk to me about what they want to talk about, then if/ when I'm talking to them again I have an idea of what topics to question them about... or if they don't need any encouragement, I just let them spin me a yarn about whatever they want to spout. Works for me cos I don't really feel I have anything to offer and listening ain't a problem! I love to listen but I always find it hard to find the words to react but I guess saying yeah or nodding should help the conversation go along the main problem is I think too much about the conversation and don't let it flow I'm very aware that I'm nodding or saying yes where as to some people it is second nature. I can see myself outside of the conversation looking in sometimes. Like jayseven said, body language is useful. Also, other key questions that come after those university ones he put forth are what did you do at the weekend, what are you doing at the weekend, what did you do last night, what are you doing tonight? Then if there are holidays or have just been holidays its what did you get up to over the holidays, have you any plans for the holidays? My answer to all of the above is that I surfed/ will be surfing the Internet which is a bit of a conversation killer right there. Haha, I give that answer all the time on MSN it's such a cop out and defunks the conversation immediately. MSN has strangely helped me as you do get a lot of What has your day been like? and the other key questions about the weekend etc which gets the conversational juices flowing! The art of conversation then is just to listen to others, be interested in what they have to say and that will make them feel good. C. Bears, just replace your wacky phrases with some yeahs and the odd how did that go? and you may yet be a renowned conversationalist! I could become what Nicholas means in greek... LEADER OF THE PEOPLE! /has got a bit carried away... Skimmed the thread. Too lazy to read it all right now :p I think what you're trying to say is you don't know how to keep a conversation going when it's about nothing in particular? (ie "small talk"). If so, thats something that I'm terrible with too. If I'm sitting at the hairdressers talking about the weather or holidays or whatever it always comes to an awkward silence. I'm happy enough to not break this, as I don't care that my hairdresser is going to Spain next week, but I can tell it makes them feel uncomfortable. I just don't have the art of conversation, of keeping it going when theres nothing in particular to talk about - in a discussion about the pros and cons of socialism I'm entirely happy, as theres always something more to add to something like that. But talking about the weather? I can't do that at all. Ah small talk with the Barber I've been there. The last time I got my haircut he asks... So how has your day been? I didn't realised he was talking to me so I shouted loudly ARE YOU TALKING TO ME? Which sounded rather angry so that ended the small talk... If you are not a fan of small talk then you could try that. Warning: May result in an unwanted haircut. I really stink at small talk, too, but this is outweighed by an almost natural ability to turn the current subject into something more meaningful that I like to talk about or discuss. So how about Ludwig Wittgenstein's language games? That's always a fun topic! Note: That is not sarcasm I actually like language games. I'm not very good at discussing it in depth though! I usually go for the "how is <family member's name/work/study> doing these days?" then they go off on a talk about that. Cue some nods, laughs and smiles. This is all very well but when I say it I have to sound as if I care, which hard to pull of with my voice. Good openers though! I used to find it incredibly hard to have a normal conversation with someone I wasn't really close with because the stammer I used to have affected my confidence so much. Thanfully now, it's almost completely gone, apart from the odd thing now and then. Now you text dirty messages to people when you are drunk! :p I worked as a missionary for my church for two years and in that time I had a lot of conversations with strangers, where it was often strained.When I would go into these situations I would try to build a relationship of trust by looking for what I had in common with them, or what their interests were and asking questions about them/it. That was a great weapon, to get someone talking about what they love. I still do that these days. Also, I find that the best way to get someone to flow into a conversation is to ask open ended questions rather than ones that can be answered with a "yes" or "no." When people are asked open ended questions they will give you a little part of themselves in their answers. If they someone has a hobby, why do they like it? etc There's another part to my conversation though, and that is where I have decided that people are interested in me. In fact they may not be, but if I assume that they are then when the opportunity arises I can give my opinion on something, and I assume that they want to hear it, that they are interested in my part of the chat. I think it's a bit like how Ashley has decided that he is awesome (or something to that effect) - just act like it is true, and it may end up that way. Ooh this is good open ended questions. That is true myself especially I will give yes or no which isn't a particuarly revitting discussion to be having! About getting someone to talk about something they love. I agree with that as well as if someone pushes my buttons I then will spill all the information about the simpsons ,for want of a less used example in this discussion, however I then start doubting myself. Okay so more confidence in myself is needed that starts here... I AM AWESOME I AM AWESOME I AM AWESOME Don't want to get to cocky though! :awesome: Edited April 20, 2009 by Coolness Bears
Wesley Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 I was terrible at making conversion with people, especially those older and who have different interests than me, until I was working during my gap year. That year of talking to idiots helped loads. Now I could talk to the Queen and feel comfortable. Which is the perfect state before an assassination.
Coolness Bears Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 Yesterday and today I tried out some of my new aquired techniques. I tonned down the references, looked at people while they talked to me and responded instead of looking into space. :p I asked open ended questions which helped and said things even if no one found them interesting. This is only the beginning though as I still managed to point out in a conversation that I'm weird.
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