EEVILMURRAY Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Vista comes with Windows Live Messenger doesn't it? Or is it just a link to it? Irrelevant anyway, really, and only fuelling my point if it's impossible. Most likely, but I'm saying in future if they actually go through with this bullshit.
DCK Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 I don't think this is stupid. There's no good reason why IE and WMP aren't at least uninstallable (you can uninstall Safari in OS X for example). Microsoft has dominated the market with an inferior browser way too long, and with it, they're really stopping progress in web development. If they're forced to remove IE though, getting the user to install a web browser is a big challenge. Although you can install Firefox without opening IE, people aren't nerds like some on the Firefox fundamentalists of the web. Problem is, if the Windows installer lets you choose, it'll be confusing for users. Then, which browsers will they show? I assume Firefox, and Opera too because they filed the lawsuit, but Microsoft doesn't even fully support stuff like Silverlight on Opera (yet), and doesn't support ActiveX in any browser but IE. And then there's other browsers like Safari, Chrome, Konqueror... Not to mention all the slight varieties on IE and Firefox (like Flock)... There's probably going to be a list sorted by popularity or something.
Nolan Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Actually, I've heard good things about IE8 beta. Someone said they liked it better than Chrome, and they switched to Chrome off of FF.
Jimbob Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 This... seems pretty stupid. They've been fined for not giving other browsers enough chance? "reduces customer choice?" Ok, what if Windows didn't include internet explorer with their OS, how would people get online to get another browser in the first place? Buy it on a disk? Ask someone to send them the setup file via IM? I suppose they could run ftp and download it like that... if they knew the location and the commands :/ Bundling Internet Explorer with Windows allows users to get online easily. It is just that people don't ever think about downloading another browser because they are used to Internet Explorer or because it is there and have a "cba" feeling about change. I can't stand using Internet Explorer, thats why i downloaded Firefox at both work and at home. Much better. EU Person 1: We need money fast!EU Person 1: Who has the most money? EU Person 2: Microsoft? EU Person 1: Good idea. Lets sue them over the most stupid thing that we can think of? EU Person 2: I.E is crap. EU Person 1: Yeah! Let sue them for putting I.E in Microsoft product. Thats probably how the EU came about with the decision to sue MS, its all about the money and nothing else.
Gizmo Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Vista comes with Windows Live Messenger doesn't it? Or is it just a link to it? Irrelevant anyway, really, and only fuelling my point if it's impossible. Yeah, but bundling MSN with Vista is unfair against AIM and IRC.
Twozzok Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 What they should do is just remove ie.exe or whatever it's called. But have a disk with it on included with the packaging.
RoadKill Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 This is a stupid fucking anti-trust measure and it simply means Microsoft keeps getting the shaft for no reason. Fuck this decision
fex Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 This is a stupid fucking anti-trust measure and it simply means Microsoft keeps getting the shaft for no reason. Fuck this decision If they'd have kept IE up to the standard of the other browsers im sure there wouldn't have been any problem.
GothicPlague Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 If they'd have kept IE up to the standard of the other browsers im sure there wouldn't have been any problem. No because they're getting sued for bundling it not due to it's (lack of) quality.
RoadKill Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 If they'd have kept IE up to the standard of the other browsers im sure there wouldn't have been any problem. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the browser, just the fact that Microsoft bundled their own product with their own product. I don't care about anti-trust laws, I think that Microsoft is well within their rights to include their own goddamn software with their own goddamn software, this is akin to you walking into Tescos, and as you're about to buy something, a staff member has to walk up and tell you that's it cheaper at a store down the road. It's up to the consumer, and it should always be up to the consumer to make the choice. If they're too stupid, that's not Microsoft's problem. They've already done enough in my opinion in making the browser ask which search engine you want on startup, so you can even choose Google off the bat, which, to be honest, is more than I feel they needed to do. It's not like Windows stops you from downloading and using any other browser. Now, if that were the case, then yes, I'd agree that that's anti-competitive, if somehow Windows falls over and tells you to get stuffed if you're using Firefox, but it doesn't, and infact Microsoft have made a decent effort to get their own web sites and web apps working on Firefox. It makes no logically sense to ask a company to sell somebody elses product. It's like askin McDonalds to sell Burger King. Besides if they started installing 3-4 browsers on a computer, the person using that pc is only going to use what they already know; I.E. This, exactly this, oh, thank you Nightwolf - as for tech support supporting users, they're always going to assume they're running IE if they're running Windows, or most of the time they're not going to help them. This is exactly like picking on any other component of Windows and saying it shouldn't be bundled. CALCULATOR? THIS TAKES AWAY THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO SELL REAL CALCULATORS, FUCK YOU MICROSOFT NOTEPAD? THIS TAKES AWAY ALL THE JOBS FROM THE PEOPLE CUTTING DOWN TREES FOR PAPER!!! RAAAGE Besides, if you give people an open source choice http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/15/ubuntu_cant_access_net/ HURRRR
Raining_again Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 You'd think getting free stuff wouldn't be so frowned upon. Jeez. Its not like you have to pay for Firefox or Opera. People need to chill out a bit. >_> @the talk about msn messenger - I don't think it is provided by default, windows installs a shortcut on the desktop to a download linkeh. (in vista)
Pookiablo Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 You'd think getting free stuff wouldn't be so frowned upon. Jeez. Its not like you have to pay for Firefox or Opera. People need to chill out a bit. >_> @the talk about msn messenger - I don't think it is provided by default, windows installs a shortcut on the desktop to a download linkeh. (in vista) Windows Messenger is installed, Windows Live Messenger you must download however.
Raining_again Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Windows Messenger is installed, Windows Live Messenger you must download however. MSN messenger/windows messenger doesn't "exist" on vista. Not on my copy that's for sure
RoadKill Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Windows Messenger is installed, Windows Live Messenger you must download however. Yeah, not on Vista.
The fish Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 This... seems pretty stupid. They've been fined for not giving other browsers enough chance? "reduces customer choice?" Ok, what if Windows didn't include internet explorer with their OS, how would people get online to get another browser in the first place? Buy it on a disk? Ask someone to send them the setup file via IM? I suppose they could run ftp and download it like that... if they knew the location and the commands :/ This was my reaction. I believe a better idea would be to bundle both Firefox and IE.
Ramar Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 And we want to be giving these people (the EU) more power?... Yeah right.
Guest Jordan Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Everyone knows the EU are useless, this is just another mark on the board for them. Its bad enough that WMP doesn't come with Windows in the EU (it just gives you a download link... ).
Sheikah Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Its bad enough that WMP doesn't come with Windows in the EU (it just gives you a download link... ). I would rather be given the option to download things rather than buy something already littered with crap. WMP doesn't take long to download anyway, and there's better players.
The fish Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Everyone knows the EU are useless, this is just another mark on the board for them. Yeah, so useless that the CAP worked too well... I know the whole IE idea is pretty silly, but, in the EU's defence, Microsoft has a larger share of the market than it deserves, entirely due to the bundling of the software with Windows.
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 Yeah, but bundling MSN with Vista is unfair against AIM and IRC. Don't forget YIM. Ithis is akin to you walking into Tescos, and as you're about to buy something, a staff member has to walk up and tell you that's it cheaper at a store down the road. It's also disgraceful that Tesco stocks Tesco brand products and not Sainsbury's own etc.
Shino Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 Thats probably how the EU came about with the decision to sue MS, its all about the money and nothing else. Do you have any idea how insignificant is MS compared to EU's budget? To everyone accusing the EU, these are actions taken after accusations of other companies, and it seems at least stupid anyone would give reason to a multi nacional monopolistic company over the industry regulator.
RoadKill Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 This was my reaction. I believe a better idea would be to bundle both Firefox and IE. Wow, that's incredibly stupid. Now you've just shut out Safari and Opera and whatever else. That's JUST AS anti-competitive. Bundling your own product at least makes sense. It's also disgraceful that Tesco stocks Tesco brand products and not Sainsbury's own etc. Haha, exactly. AN OUTRAGE
Slaggis Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 Yeah, so useless that the CAP worked too well... I know the whole IE idea is pretty silly, but, in the EU's defence, Microsoft has a larger share of the market than it deserves, entirely due to the bundling of the software with Windows. Yeah, but you're implying all these people that use it are idiots because they could download another program but don't because they obviously don't realise there are others. People aren't as dumb as the EU seem to think they are. Even though personally I use Opera (Love it), lots of those users may love IE, or not care about it enough to change it. I see nothing unfair about it whatsoever. It's absolute crap. It's their Operating system, so they should be able to include their programs on it. It's all optional, so what's this moaning about? God, why don't the EU stop bothering Microsoft, and instead go and do something important with their time, like assasinate the pope or find a cure for aids.
Shino Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 Lets get things straight, the reason behind the previous fine was about more than WMP (like closed network protocols and taxes for ever computer sold by official retailers EVEN without Windows) and dates to something from 98 which Microsoft kept pushing forward until it ended in 2008 with the sum of its fines together. As you can imagine, any company that depended on Microsoft's fair play during this 10 years could have very well gone bankrupt. Microsoft has a long history in antitrust issues in the US and it just happens that the EU is a much tougher regulator. This has happened to more than Microsoft such as telecoms, energy, chemicals, pharmaceutics and even member states. To those implying that a 16 trillion dollar economy needs any of MS's money, go hump a cactus.
Pookiablo Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 Lets get things straight, the reason behind the previous fine was about more than WMP (like closed network protocols and taxes for ever computer sold by official retailers EVEN without Windows) and dates to something from 98 which Microsoft kept pushing forward until it ended in 2008 with the sum of its fines together. As you can imagine, any company that depended on Microsoft's fair play during this 10 years could have very well gone bankrupt. Microsoft has a long history in antitrust issues in the US and it just happens that the EU is a much tougher regulator. This has happened to more than Microsoft such as telecoms, energy, chemicals, pharmaceutics and even member states. To those implying that a 16 trillion dollar economy needs any of MS's money, go hump a cactus. The smartest motherfucker in this thread - as he says, t'is fuck all to do with money, if any of you studied Europe you'd know. MS may be rich but the EU makes 'em look like a small cornershop business. I imagine the reasons for this are far more legitimate than they may seem - one being that MS can be a right bunch of dicks.
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