EEVILMURRAY Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Let´s say that the death penalty is in effect how would that effect crime rates? I daresay repeat offenders might be a less common occurence.
Jav_NE Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I think if the crime is bad enough then yes the death penalty should be used. There's no excuse for some crimes, like murder, including mental ones. They can't help them anyway so they wont change and prisons are already overcrowded. I say we designate a small island, like Jersey or something, and we turn it into a massive prison. Then we dont have to kill them. It'll be like a giant Alcatraz.
Guest Jordan Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I say we designate a small island, like Jersey or something, and we turn it into a massive prison. Then we dont have to kill them. It'll be like a giant Alcatraz. You mean like Australia? :p
Daft Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I think if the crime is bad enough then yes the death penalty should be used. There's no excuse for some crimes, like murder, including mental ones. They can't help them anyway so they wont change and prisons are already overcrowded. I say we designate a small island, like Jersey or something, and we turn it into a massive prison. Then we dont have to kill them. It'll be like a giant Alcatraz. Nice... real civilized.
Eenuh Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I'm absolutely against. By killing someone for a crime, you (or the government) are simply lowering yourself to the same lever, and become a murderer as well. How can you condone murder when you go out killing people yourself? It doesn't make sense. Plus it's not always a simple case of "they killed them so they're guilty". Like last month, a (I think) 79 year old woman had to go to trial for killing her 80 year old husband with a wooden hammer and a knife. She was released, even though she was guilty (even confessed it herself, never denied it). Reason: it was self defence, and her husband had been mistreating/abusing her her entire life. I'm sure some would say she should be punished, but honestly not every crime is the same. Not only is there the chance of killing innocent people (which has happened on numerous occasions already), but the death penalty is also inefficient in preventing crimes. Crime rates do not become lower in countries with the death penalty; they are often even higher than countries without the death penalty. I also believe that the death penalty is "an easy way out" of things. You don't suffer much, you don't really get much of a punishment, as everything just ends. You don't get to think about what you did, feel guilty about it. Prison is more of a punishment (depending on what kind of prison I guess), and I do believe most people deserve a second chance. It actually scares me that so many people seem to be in favour of the death penalty. =/
EEVILMURRAY Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I assume you lot aren't fans of euthanasia as well then?
Eenuh Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I assume you lot aren't fans of euthanasia as well then? I am. But that's a completely different thing, and the person gets to decide for themselves whether they want to live or die. Euthanasia is legal here by the way, and I fully support it.
Fierce_LiNk Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Euthanasia just goes back to what I was saying in my first post. To somebody who is terminally ill and in pain, dying could be seen as relief to them. If a person has killed or offended and is going to spend the rest of his life in a prison, then dying could be seen as relief to them, too.
Domstercool Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Death Penalty should be brought back, but only used for extreme cases and when it's 100% certain that whatever the case is for the victim is guilty, example for instance, Bin Laden.
Jimbob Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 In some ways i am for the death penalty and others against it. I'd only really accept the death penalty for mass murderers and people who don't show emotion in court after a murder, rape or some other serious crime to the victim or victims family. For one murder/manslaughter and the accused showing that he is well and truely sorry for his actions should have that as punishment as well as jail.
Noodleman Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Giving someone the death penalty is in fact Murder, so if you give the death penalty out for murder then well..... I'm against it by the way, I don't see why anybody should have the power to determine whether another person lives or dies. Even if they have committed an atrocious crime, besides getting 50 years in prison to stew on it is surely a far worse punishment.
Supergrunch Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I assume you lot aren't fans of euthanasia as well then? Nope, I think euthanasia is a good thing, provided you can be sure the person wants it, which can be difficult. It's like Eenuh says - death isn't really a punishment - indeed, for some people, it is the opposite.
D_prOdigy Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 It's really a topic that needs to be looked at from every single angle before making a judgement on it, but if you were to demand an answer from the top of my head, then I'd say I'm for a return of the death penalty. Perhaps my decision is swayed by the fact that in the UK, courts are so depressingly lenient on a most crimes. You can essentially beat someone to a pulp in an unprovoked attack and get away with a slapped wrist. Do it again, and you might get a few weeks in a luxury, five star prison. Rape someone and you'll probably serve half of your (already pitiful) sentence. I think we are beyond the days now where even the worst criminals spend the rest of their life in prision. Even worse, people just aren't afraid of that punishment. My family can't afford Sky TV and my house doesn't even have room for a snooker table. Perhaps I'll go and kill someone in time for the next season of Lost. The government puts these shockingly small sentences down to overcrowding prisons, but America are experiencing that very same problem, but it doesn't stop them locking up repeating assaulters for 66 years. Would you see anyone in this country be sentenced for 66 years? I make myself laugh sometimes. So yes, I'm not surprised if a majority is for the death penalty, considering justice is very rarely served the way things are in the UK.
Cube Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 If it's necessary (i.e. cases where someone will still have a load of support when they're locked up), then yes. But only behind closed doors. Either that or give them a ton of diseases and stuff them in a small cell, keeping them alive for as long as possible.
MoogleViper Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I just think it is such hypocrisy to have an attitude like: They killed someone so they must DIE. Why not try and reform these people? How wonderful it must be to live in your naive world. Do you know any of these people? Maybe you live in some world where criminals get a slap on the wrist and then become modern citizens. But in the real world the people who would quite easily murder 5 people without even shedding a tear cannot be reformed. And why should they deserve to? Why do they have the right to live when they have taken that right from others? Two wrongs DO make a right.
Jav_NE Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Nice... real civilized. I think you misuderstood. I meant a mental condition being used as an excuse.
McPhee Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 My argument isn't entirely founded on humanitarianism, but is more to do with how much of a penalty the death penalty actually is. Let's say we assume that prisons are unpleasant in some way, which is presumably the theory, even if it arguably isn't the practise. This unpleasantness could stem from guilt, lack of freedom, isolation from family or the real world, etc. Given this axiom, simply being in prison itself is a form of punishment. Now, let's introduce the death penalty. Things get complex here because reasoning depends on belief, but lets consider the possible payoffs in terms of type of punishment: Dying takes you to a:_Better place_Worse place_Indifferent place_You no longer exist Prisoner lives:__________standard_____standard_____standard_________standard Prisoner dies:___________lesser_______worse_______standard__________none Let's apply a numerical value to this in terms of degree of punishment, the higher the worse: Dying takes you to a:_Better place_Worse place_Indifferent place_You no longer exist Prisoner lives:__________0.5__________0.5___________0.5_______________0.5 Prisoner dies:___________-1___________1____________0.5________________0 So, for the harshest possible punishment, we need to choose a strategy which will give us the largest punishment. The best thing to do here is to let the prisoner live, as this way one will be sure to have a punishment of 0.5, and though you can't achieve a one of 1, there is no chance of 0 or -1. This analysis suggests the death penalty is a flawed strategy, but of course it is subject to change based on what you believe. As someone who thinks nothing after death is by far the most likely scenario, I am even more sure that the death penalty is a bad idea. There is nevertheless one humanitarian element to my argument, that I mentioned earlier. An authority ordering the death of an individual, even if based on a trial, seems far worse than the actions of the individual themselves, whatever these actions may be. That mathimatical argument is completely flawed. You give the belief of no longer existing a numerical value of 0? So what you are saying is that the idea of no longer existing is less scary than the idea of spending the rest of your life in prison? It might well be less scary, but that all depends on the person's outlook on life. If they like being alive then ANY death is going to be worse than prison, if they see death as an escape then death will always be better than prison. Also, surely using this system would give Norway's rehabilitation system a score of 0 or -1. A rehab camp isn't in the slightest bit scary, but it does work. Personally i think Rehab > Death Penalty > Prison. Prison is the worst method of dealing with crime, locking people up ISN'T dealing with the problem. All we are doing is pushing criminals to the side so that we don't have to deal with them and then throwing money in to the prison service to make sure we are in line with human rights. I can see the attempts at rehab, but they don't extend far beyond giving prisoners luxuries and hoping that it allows them the reform upon leaving. The only problem i can forsee with rehab is that our culture isn't right for it. Rehab in this country is seen as an easy way out, freedom after a few months/years in prison. Maybe the answer is to turn a large, unused part of Scotland in to a "community prison" complete with towns etc. where the prisoners all have to work and live together to survivie. It's better than rehabilitating people straight in to society, which very rarely works.
EEVILMURRAY Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Personally i think Rehab > Death Penalty > Prison. Prison is the worst method of dealing with crime, locking people up ISN'T dealing with the problem. All we are doing is pushing criminals to the side so that we don't have to deal with them and then throwing money in to the prison service to make sure we are in line with human rights. I can see the attempts at rehab, but they don't extend far beyond giving prisoners luxuries and hoping that it allows them the reform upon leaving. It's almost like grounding someone and telling them to stay in their room. Granted there isn't as many luxuries.
Wesley Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 Is this the same British public that buy Coldplay's "music"? Um... er...
MoogleViper Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 It's almost like grounding someone and telling them to stay in their room. Granted there isn't as many luxuries. What in the kid's room?
EEVILMURRAY Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 As many luxuries in ones prison cell. But I'm not sure about the minimal condition prisons are getting these days.
MoogleViper Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 As many luxuries in ones prison cell. But I'm not sure about the minimal condition prisons are getting these days. That's what I was referring to. For some of them prison life is like our life except they don't have to work. That and they don't have any interaction with females. No wait... it's the same.
Daft Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I think you misuderstood. I meant a mental condition being used as an excuse. Fair enough. Um... er... Ok, I don't like Coldplay. It shouldn't stop your enjoyment of them.
The fish Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I really can't understand what thought process people have gone through to attain the idea that the death penalty is a good idea. I'm very pro-euthanasia, but only voluntary euthanasia... Do it again, and you might get a few weeks in a luxury, five star prison. You seem to be confusing prison with the Ritz... Have you actually ever been in one? Death Penalty should be brought back, but only used for extreme cases and when it's 100% certain that whatever the case is for the victim is guilty, example for instance, Bin Laden. You can never, ever, ever be 100% certain of someone's guilt. If I some how was caperble to thinking that murdering someone and not having the murderer punished is a really good idea, then I would still point out that there's always the possibility someone else is behind all the attacks pinned on Bin Laden, and he's just a crazy fellow claiming responsibility.
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