ShadowV7 Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 If they did, the world/time they're in will still exist and remain the same. The time/world that had Sylar die will have a different path from the world that went to kill him. So if they go back to change the past, they're world will remain the same, it just creates an alternate path for the world in the past if you get me. For instance, now they're are 4 futures. First one is Peter blowing up destroying Manhattan, the second is with the Shanti virus, third is the current Future Peters future and now the 4th, the world gets destroyed. So future Peters world is the same, but the world he's in will have a worse path. Also Mokong, i've got no idea what I meant with the Nikki thing. I can't even remember what I meant
Sheikah Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 If they did, the world/time they're in will still exist and remain the same. The time/world that had Sylar die will have a different path from the world that went to kill him. So if they go back to change the past, they're world will remain the same, it just creates an alternate path for the world in the past if you get me. You what now? Dunno what strange time theory logic they've created for this show, but it seems obvious to me that if you went back in time and altered something then it would definitely change/undo the future, none of this other worlds lark. But I suppose this is their way of explaining how you can have time travel as a power without causing the entire show to implode on itself in a huge mess.
Mokong Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 You what now? Dunno what strange time theory logic they've created for this show, but it seems obvious to me that if you went back in time and altered something then it would definitely change/undo the future, none of this other worlds lark. But I suppose this is their way of explaining how you can have time travel as a power without causing the entire show to implode on itself in a huge mess. Actually it's a theory of time travel used in a number of shows, even used in the Zelda games. How at the end of Ocarina of Time when Link goes back to the past the timeline divides into two. So now you have a timeline where Link grew up as a child in Hyrule and wasn't missing for 7 years. Leading to furture games/events of Majora's Mask, A Link to the Past, Zelda 1 and Zelda 2. But you also have the timeline he "left", the "future" timeline where he defeated Ganon. Just cause Link went back to the past does not mean this timeline stopped. It infacts still continues as seen in the game Wind Waker and Phantom Hour Glass. Most real world scientists would use this theory as a way around possible paradoxes created if time travel was possible. eg: You go back in time and kill your mother before she gave birth to you. In which case you should not exist, but then that would be mean you would not be able to go back in time and kill your mother in first place...but that means you were born, but if your born you go back and kill your mother.... see very confusing. If time travel is possible we must also be open to the possiblity of infinate parallel realities or timelines. So for any possibile choice there is an infinate number of outcomes and while we only get to experience the one outcome all other outcomes would also be played out in an alternate reality. So if time travel is possible and you go back in time and kill your mother preventing your own birth this would then split that time into a alternate timeline so in effect not only did you travel through time but also through realities. Does that make better sense, i'm not great at explaining this So in the case of Heroes while we get to see the future, everytime the outcome is altered it splits off into another timeline with a new future outcome. If F.Peter went back further and tried to change something else, like kill Sylar as a baby (OMG Terminator), he would just be creating a new timeline/reality and would get stuck in that timeline, meanwhile the mess he made in the other timeline still happens. And since the focus of the show is the "present day" and not a single character F.Peter stays where he is. *my head hurts... and prolly yours does too*
Dan_Dare Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 a bit, yeah. I always assumed the two dark futures we've seen with the bomb and virus' have been erased, being merely possible during the events of the show proper.
Sheikah Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 eg: You go back in time and kill your mother before she gave birth to you. In which case you should not exist, but then that would be mean you would not be able to go back in time and kill your mother in first place...but that means you were born, but if your born you go back and kill your mother.... see very confusing. I would say that this old argument pretty much proves that time travel is impossible. Time is just a concept we created to help measure how we get from one thing to another. To actually time travel would be to return every little thing to its original state, say, 1 day ago, including the erasing of everyone's memories. Which would be conclusively impossible, I'll say. I think at the end of the day the 'real life scientists' you speak of probably don't believe in time travel (like me), but this is a show and we have to take it as that. Thinking up reasons for something like this is a massive waste of time, the creator of the show is only human after all. :p
Mundi Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 I liked these episodes, far better than season 2 but season 1 gets the gold for me. the twist at the beginning was pretty clever but for me it didn´t make Peter any less of an annoying character or that the guy can´t... at all. Also Claires brain topsy turvy was cool and all but I was hoping that she would die, except for Peter she´s my least liked character. EDIT: Oh and just remembered, does anyone else thing that F.Peter looks like something from Equilibrium :Þ
jayseven Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Pretty sure that Claire just didn't die from the cut. that would kill anyone else. Sylar said something about rushing to check the brain before she bled to death, or something. Having your scalp removed doesn't kill you, but I'm sure it would send people into shock. Plus Claire's been dead once before, so if she were ever beheaded then she'd possibly resurrect if the bits were put back together. The real odd thing would be imagining you'd left the body parts separate for fifty years and they'd rotted and shit - would they completely repair themselves? It's toying with the unanswerable questions like this and time travel that fucks the show up. More focus on the unusual powers like parkman's, Darnel's, Micah's and so on would be more interesting. Having two Peters leads me to suspect that one of them will surely die at some point. The ando/hiro future wtf thing... well I think the normal humans will be jealous, and feel that they deserve powers too. I mean, to hear that there are humans out there more 'evolved' than you kind of makes you feel a little shit and... well, obsolete, really. I'm sure the heroes will be all "but dudes it sucks! it's a curse!" and all the neo-heroes will be all "but liek it's no fair! we wanna play," and having never experienced the burden of secrecy and/or embarassment, will be naive and stoopid... but it would bring about the whole apocalyptical refinement of the human race that Adam so verily wanted. Oh, and him being in wosserface's dream, surely he'll be back? Will they remember that he wants to kill all those people in that picture? What happened to parkman's dad? The questions and the potential means I'll keep on watching.
Supergrunch Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 As for Angela having another power, I doubt it, with the exceptions of Peter and Sylar I'm fairly sure it's been stated that nobody will have more than one power... unless they are another Peter or Sylar Yeah, I meant more in terms of it being a different facet of her power, like the Hatian who can supress abilities and erase memories. I would say that this old argument pretty much proves that time travel is impossible. Time is just a concept we created to help measure how we get from one thing to another. To actually time travel would be to return every little thing to its original state, say, 1 day ago, including the erasing of everyone's memories. Which would be conclusively impossible, I'll say. I think at the end of the day the 'real life scientists' you speak of probably don't believe in time travel (like me), but this is a show and we have to take it as that. Thinking up reasons for something like this is a massive waste of time, the creator of the show is only human after all. :p Well, there are some theories for time travel which are arguably physically valid, such as Kip Thorne's idea of creating a traversable wormhole then twins paradoxing one end through space before bringing it back. Alternatively, you could slow light to around walking speed by passing it through Einstein-Bose condensate near absolute zero, and create a loop of light cones and thus a closed timelike curve. Either way, you get the possibility of backwards time travel, but not to before the creation of your "time machine". Some scientists argue that in such cases the parallel worlds theory would resolve parodoxes, but this is controversial. Incidentally, travel forwards in time is definitely possible, and not just by waiting around - it's a fundamental part of special relativity. Spacetime is apparently far more flexible than the speed of light. Anyway, what with Heroes being science fiction and all I see no real problem with them using parallel universes in their treatment of time travel. What's more of a problem is that they apply this inconsistently, so that sometimes timelines merge, and sometimes parallel universes are produced. They should really decide whether lines are mutable or immutable, rather than having both at once and using whichever they please.
Sheikah Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 They should really decide whether lines are mutable or immutable, rather than doing having at once and using whichever they please. Yup, Peter Patrelli goes backwards to change time and that has a an effect on his timeline (didn't Hiro say at one point you couldn't change the past?), yet in the earlier series you see different lines used when things are changed. It's probably better if they stick to one.
Platty Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Well I thought it was pretty damn Epic! can't wait for the next episode
ssj Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Just seen it Probably one of the greatest season premiers ever made. It had everything I could have possibly wanted and more. Everything I wanted to happen has been in Cant wait till episode 2
jayseven Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 .. you mean episode 3? 1 and 2 were shown back-to-back
Sheikah Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 .. you mean episode 3? 1 and 2 were shown back-to-back Careful, you might give him a heart attack if he knows the second episode is already out. :p
Supergrunch Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 Yup, Peter Patrelli goes backwards to change time and that has a an effect on his timeline (didn't Hiro say at one point you couldn't change the past?), yet in the earlier series you see different lines used when things are changed. It's probably better if they stick to one. The timelines also seem to merge after the whole Charlie thing with Hiro in season 1, which doesn't make much sense.
ShadowV7 Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 I'd hope he knows since the end of the first episode said "Heroes continues...NOW"
Shorty Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 watched the first couple of eps... this season seems really messy. I really don't think that peter would've acted this way. and doesn't what happened to clare make the whole tagline of the first season seem redundant?
Sheikah Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 watched the first couple of eps... this season seems really messy. I really don't think that peter would've acted this way. and doesn't what happened to clare make the whole tagline of the first season seem redundant? Exactly. Save the cheerleader, save the w...oops!
Mokong Posted September 25, 2008 Posted September 25, 2008 watched the first couple of eps... this season seems really messy. I really don't think that peter would've acted this way. and doesn't what happened to clare make the whole tagline of the first season seem redundant? Not really, if Sylar had gotten Claires powers back in Season 1 New York would have blown up, and who knows what else he could have done after that?
Shorty Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 Not really, if Sylar had gotten Claires powers back in Season 1 New York would have blown up, and who knows what else he could have done after that? it doesn't change the fact that the cheerleader didn't need saving. in season 1 claire died before hiro changed things. it wasn't "prevent the cheerleader from having her powers taken, save the world", was it?
jayseven Posted September 26, 2008 Posted September 26, 2008 Well all that's stopping sylar for now is his inability to recreate Ted's nukem doo-dah. Potentially he could 'heal' it back, but I believe that he's 'forgotten' how Ted (et al's) brains work, so he can't actually do those tricks anymore, until he finds them again. But realistically, season 2 didn't give the future Heroes episodes much to go on. I mean, each season so far has been pretty self-contained so we feel as if we're learning about the show's direction from scratch for the first half... Of course this season is meant to be a continuation, but we all know it's not.
Mokong Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 Well all that's stopping sylar for now is his inability to recreate Ted's nukem doo-dah. Potentially he could 'heal' it back, but I believe that he's 'forgotten' how Ted (et al's) brains work, so he can't actually do those tricks anymore, until he finds them again.not. Good point... though thinking about it I think he should still have Teds powers... he's still able to move things with his mind and i'm pretty sure he didn't "take" that power from a 2nd person, so he should still have all the powers he had before he "lost" them
Gizmo Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 it doesn't change the fact that the cheerleader didn't need saving. in season 1 claire died before hiro changed things. it wasn't "prevent the cheerleader from having her powers taken, save the world", was it? I'd put that down to her power developing/growing since S1. Also, why doesn't Hiro just pause time, walk up to super speed girl, and take the formula? Why does he need let her get away with it?
ShadowV7 Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 Yeah I was wondering that aswell. Though he stopped time(I think), but she could still move about freely for some reason. I guess her power cancelled Hiro's for some crazy reason. Even in France he could of got the forumla back easy, but used Ando for a trade which was obviously a bad idea since she could just swipe the medal from him.
Coolness Bears Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 Can speed girl travel faster than time? or Hiro can't completely stop it?
Eddage Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 The speed girl actually said that Hiro wasn't stopping time completely or else she wouldn't be able to move around.
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