navarre Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Whenever it was played at school or something we all stood up for it, don't do the hand on heart thing though. I know my examples of Scottish patriotism are very bland and directed towards a small percentage of the population but what other sort of patriotism is there now? What is there to be patriotic about other than sports? The Scottish Government going for independence? I don't think so, as much as I would like to see us as a seperate country I can't see it working at all. Scottish Wars of Independence is something that the majority of Scots love because we got one-over the English. There just really isn't anything in my view to be patriotic about Scotland for anymore except for sports. You see, this is what I don't understand. Why aren't Scots proud to be British? Why would they rather be proud of their Scottish heritage rather than British heritage? I'm English, but I feel more loyalty towards Britain than England, hence why my location says 'Britain' other than 'England'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 That's what I read about the 13th firearm murder in Toronto that year. Look for Chicago and Houston in this list (coincidentally, they're next to each other), they're the two most similar in population of Toronto. They have murder rates of 448 and 334 per year, respectively. According to this (scroll down), the murder rate was just 84 in 2007 Roughly half involved firearms. Hmm, I believe you now. I'd be interesting to see some general per capita crime rates around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 You see, this is what I don't understand. Why aren't Scots proud to be British? Why would they rather be proud of their Scottish heritage rather than British heritage? I'm English, but I feel more loyalty towards Britain than England, hence why my location says 'Britain' other than 'England'. I think that many english people, without meaning any harm, think of England as the head of Britain -- think as if England is britain. I'm not saying we're idiots, just that's how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Pretty vague article about US levels of crime. Don't you have anything with full stats for non gun crimes and such? Watch Bowling for Columbine. Althought that is mainly about gun crime. I think it does have other violent crimes like knives in it. But I may be wrong. But still it lists the gun crime figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hmm, I believe you now. I'd be interesting to see some general per capita crime rates around the world. Not exactly what you want, but Wikipedia has at least one article per country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanchez Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 True. This seems good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence Oh wikipedia, what don't you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I think that many english people, without meaning any harm, think of England as the head of Britain -- think as if England is britain. I'm not saying we're idiots, just that's how it is. But we are the head of Britain, considering our Queen 'rules' over all four countries. If anyone calls me a Brit or British, I correct them, I'm English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaggis Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Joining the conversation half way in and all but my 2 cents. Who the fuck cares in all honesty. It's just a bit of land in the end, it's not the country thats achieved anything, it's the people that live here/there/everywhere. I really don't want to see union jacks flying around all over the place, I don't see the point. I couldn't give two stuffs about being patriotic, whats the point? I loathe the Americans parading there country everywhere they go, whats the point to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 But we are the head of Britain, considering our Queen 'rules' over all four countries. If anyone calls me a Brit or British, I correct them, I'm English. She's not your Queen, she's the Queen of the United Kingdom. And if you want to go further than that, she descended from Queen Victoria who was partly French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 And if you want to go further than that, she descended from Queen Victoria who was partly French. And more parts German... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 And more parts German... Isn't there some Portuguese in that mix, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shino Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Isn't there some Portuguese in that mix, too? There's a bit of everyone. European royalty is the human equivalent of dog breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 There's a bit of everyone. European royalty is the human equivalent of dog breeding. What breed is Duke of Bragança? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadKill Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I have yet to see a programme, movie or street in America that does not have the Stars and Stripes in it. The Americans have every right to be patriotic, but I think this is a bit ridiculous. American schoolchildren, regardless of nationality, are brought up to think that America is the greatest country in the world. Patriotism is all well and good (I'm sorta half patriotic myself), but don't you think this is a bit out of hand? Are you saying this is isn't the greatest country in the world? Why do you hate freedom‽ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 The Queen is a filthy whore. God save our gracious queen! Long live our noble queen! God save the queen! Send her victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us, God save the queen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 She's not your Queen, she's the Queen of the United Kingdom. And if you want to go further than that, she descended from Queen Victoria who was partly French. We can trace the direct heritage back, and she is from the line of Kings and Queens of England, before the United Kingdom existed. Even though Kings/Queens may have married foreign people, the line is still of people who ruled England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Interesting points in here and I agree with a people like Aimless and J7 (you guys quite often share my views funily enough) and I can also understand a lot of peoples views. On the subject of American patriotism: I think that it is frequently blind and personally I find it very uncomfortable. In contrast however, I went to NY 1 month after 9/11 for the NY Marathon (my Dad was running not me) and was really amazed at how humble and subtley patriotic they were. You know that advert that shows a black out in NY? It was more like that. But lets not get ahead of ourselves, NY has a very twisted sense of herritage and patriotism (American Irish for eg.) but it also a much more comsmopolitan area. Other states from what I know are a stark contrast. On British patriotism: I agree that this is much more subtle than the American form, which is great. We are not so much patriotic but confident in our identity and so don't need to shout about it. This also contrasts wonderfully with what someone was saying about Australia. We do have major problems though. For me, sharing an identity such as a nationality with people requires an amount of trust and that is something that is grossely lacking in this country. This is fully understandable though because lets face it people are bastards. But it all needs to start on a small level. I like to be able to walk down the street of the town where I live and say "Morning" or "Hello" to everyone I pass by. To me, this is a very small step towards gaining common ground with the people in your local area and getting to know them, even if that just means recognising their faces. Specifically about the Queen: I feel no loyalty to her what so ever. The only facts that I know are that although she and her family spend a lot of money (a lot of it oncharities I might add) they bring more in through tourism than they spend. Personally, I find the kind of overt patriotism towards the royals very unsettling, as they are just people. Many people act as if they actually know them. And patriotism in sports? That can plain fuck off. Football - Players are overpayed (try putting that into the club's local community, patriotism works both ways). Fans frequently feel that loyalty is an excuse for discrimination, demonisation and violence towards their opposing team's fans leading to people dying. And where's the UK team? Bit hard to feel like part of the UK team isn't it? (same could be said for Rugby but due to the fact that we can make 4 pretty damn good teams is pretty amazing itself, also the only respectfully patriotic sport that I know). Athletics - This mostly refers to the Olympics. Fantastic groups of competitions which should be celebrated as the purest form of sporting competition. It will bring a lot of money into the country in 2012 but the comission are botching the job horrendously. The Olympic village will be built almost entirely on London tax payers money and once the show is over most of the facilities will be disbanded or destroyed, leaving a huge scar across London. I can almost guarantee that this area will not be put to any good use afterwards. The logo was a huge diservice to the country as a whole, we all know that. On top of this, why can't the newspapers start balancing the benefit of the games with the cost? This should be a huge opportunity for national pride but I very much doubt that it will happen. The public will get screwed and reap very little reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 We can trace the direct heritage back, and she is from the line of Kings and Queens of England, before the United Kingdom existed. Even though Kings/Queens may have married foreign people, the line is still of people who ruled England. She is the Head of State of the United Kingdom. "Until 1603 the English and Scottish Crowns were separate, although links between the two were always close - members of the two Royal families intermarried on many occasions. Following the Accession of King James VI of Scotland (I of England) to the English Throne, a single monarch reigned in the United Kingdom. " http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page13.asp Up untl 1707 there were essentially two crowns resting on the same head. Although Scotland and England had the same monarch they were still two different countries. The Act of Union 1707 joined Scotland and England into the Kingdom of Great Britain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I love the UK. Simple as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarre Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Are you saying this is isn't the greatest country in the world? Why do you hate freedom‽ I sincerely hope you're joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I sincerely hope you're joking. He used an interrobang. Nobody uses them seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 He used an interrobang. Nobody uses them seriously. I didn't even notice that. How do you type one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 But we are the head of Britain, considering our Queen 'rules' over all four countries. If anyone calls me a Brit or British, I correct them, I'm English. Agreed , on forms when choosing a nationality, you can put irish or scottish, yet when I have to put mine down I have to put Bristish..why can't I put english? Personally, I don't have a problem otherwise, but it annoys me when I cannot put down white english, shouldn't it be the same in all four parts of britian then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarre Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 We can trace the direct heritage back, and she is from the line of Kings and Queens of England, before the United Kingdom existed. Even though Kings/Queens may have married foreign people, the line is still of people who ruled England. Funny, we inherited a Scottish king after the Tudors. Surely a flaw in the pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 From my assumption of living in this country for 11 years... All the Proddy's fiercely claim to be British/Northern Irish and all the Catholics claim to be Irish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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