jayseven

I'm not sure if the distinction between innocence and ignorance affects the morality of having pets. Being unaware or being incapable of being aware are moot points -- but in terms of distinguishing humans from animals then yes, that can be conceded. But I was talking more in terms about a domesticated animal having no knowledge of another way of life, i.e. they truly don't know what they're missing. This is turning into one of those the-more-I-think-about-it... things. To the pub!

But with humans having all this amazing potential, can't we pull an analogy out of our hats about we are The Man's pets, doing shitty jobs as we're told to do them, etc etc? I think there's a difference between being able to do whatever you want and doing something that's good for you -- rules, behavioural training, moral constraints and so on all serve to restrict the wealth of options one has in order to satisfy "doing whatever one wants" -- yet there's still a maximal level of happiness that the richest man in the world or the most starvingest of african orphans can both experience, regardless of their environmental or educational background. There's also whole wreaths of points to be made about ignorance being bliss, and all that. In general I type this and think of cats and dogs. Truthfully, there are many animals that seem to serve little more than ornamental purpose, which I don't really agree with at all. This is another pub-and-pint topic, isn't it?

You'd rather have someone who's polar opposite to you in terms of mannerisms, characteristics, morality, sensibility, interests, beliefs, and personality -- but so long as they're a good fuck, it's ok? Sex is about way more than just the physical element. Plus, people can learn to be better in bed. If they have an ugly personality then you'll have an ugly existence with them. For many people, dating is a means to an end -- that end is not just something to be 'gotten away' but instead it is to find someone to share life with. I think it's a step away from the hedonistic liberatarianism that you seem to prescribe life to be, and towards a much more realistic version of romantic necessity. Plus you spelt gel wrong.

I know the argument's gone a bit stale now, but anyway; Video description; The point moogle made about having pets being some sort of brainwashing thing... just struck me as an odd thing to say. Note how Bella rushes to the chair and automatically flips the table part over without being instructed. Is that brainwashing, or learned behaviour that is a necessary step towards her being fed? No matter the environment, a being, be it dog or man, learns how to behave accordingly. I just find it odd to think that just because a pet learns to behave a certain way it's somehow damning, especially when you consider that every single child is taught how to behave, from using a toilet to saying please and thank you. Your position on 'brainwashing' is wrong because the brain's previous settings aren't being tinkered with, the creature is simply adapting. I saw this video and remembered the thread. If the dog didn't have owners to cater for its eating requirements then it wouldn't be as comfortable.

Welcome dan hope you enjoy it! It'll be down to you to keep flink in his place in teh lower league :P

Yeah I think that's it... I don't really know either! Will PM you name (though sending it to jayseven would be fine by me :P)

Pft. Hurricanes won two leagues outta three. We deserve recognisshun!

Invite sent! This will be the beginning of the end for the Emo Blades :P Winning the lower league and getting to the final will do me grand. But I'll still try! Bring it!

Posted already! Goafer, where are you getting these old internet things so frequently? Surely they deserve a citation?

Done it. Tbh nearly all answers were "don't know"

2-2 away in teh semi final of the cup to finish it 7-4 on aggregate. Bring on--- woah rompastompa Rising Phoenix turned the tie around - 4-2 to him!

Yes it is PMing you my address if that's ok?

Vote: heroicjanitor for his claim that he has a channel, not a show.

I wore contacts for a while - fell asleep after a family gathering and they'd gone fairly far back over the top of my eye. You can kinda get a purchase on them through your eyelid and wiggle them back into place -- I've only experienced soft lenses so I have no idea if it happens with hard lenses.

A prize for 2nd-last is a nice "thanks for playing" thing because it's a lot harder to plot to come 2nd-last. Rewarding those who are either stupid or conniving is unfair towards the teams that come 4th or 5th, who make the effort and are smart! (FYI most of my pub quiz results have ended 3rd last :P)

A prize for last place is stupid.

My mate's getting her boyfriend a bigger HDD for his xbox as part of his xmas present. Does anyone here have a transfer cable I can borrow for a couple of weeks? transfer caaaaable!! Will pay for postage and return the cable!

1-0 Basel - quite the opposite is happening! Man U being caught on the break and looking a little loose at the back. It does feel like it's a matter of time 'til Man U get something.

happy birthday magnus

Beat aquii1a 5-2 at the home leg, just gotta not lose 3-0 and I'll be fine. pretty happy with that :P Fancying a final with gaggle, a team that I've got a good record against... but ultimately is far superior currently. Winners of league 2 vs league 3... It's an easy call. of course, we've got teh 2nd leg to do first, but still, on paper it's gaggle's tea cup to throw away.

Aw I can sign up - It's not through lack of trying! I'm just a busy bunny (read: lazy, too). Go on then, add my name

In the house I was sharing at uni, we had some issues with damp/the boiler/the shower. One of my housemates had some sort of legalese connection, and essentially if the landlord does not attend to an issue you have informed them of within 30 days, you can withold rent until the situation has been properly seen to. Not that I know how true this is, but it certainly shocked our landlord into sorting shit out quick!

Bard defintely raises one of the points of interest; affinity to the prey. There's a definite heirarchy of preferred distaste. I think tortoises are pretty much the only reptiles I can humanise to a degree (no idea why), and within the mammalian kingdom there's certainly those more antropomorph-able (or whatever the phrase is) than others. Finding one kind of animal more cute than another has a reasoning behind it. Doesn't mean that it should affect our moral judgement of these situations... but it does! Another point of interest is the human involvement. yes, animals eat animals in the wild, but the idea that the situation arose purely because some douche conducted it into existence -- and even worse, that this person appears to do so for the sake of pleasure is something that brings us as the supposedly superior species to feel shame at abusing our superiority -- something that changes to anger when directed to others who tarnish the human name - anger as a response to reinforce difference between us and them, to put ground between their behaviour and our own. Also, another interesting point here, though not really as involved, is the whole "should we keep pets?" thing. With cats and dogs and many other mammals it's clear that the animal's quality of life is fantastic. With snakes and reptiles and lizards and fish and birds it's trickier to recognise how exactly domestication is improving their lives - but then again, perhaps that's placing human characteristics on animal behaviour and assuming things. An interesting point in general but more of a tangent. [/thread summarising or something]

I've enjoyed reading this thread -- admittedly though I've not been able to listen to the music so far, but I'm going to through the whole thread when I have spare time just to indulge myself. The write-ups were excellent!

x11's been something to bring a smile to my face after work all these weeks... On paper aqui1a isn't as strong as Cube or I, but still got the jitters a bit. Won't find out the score until I get home at 11pm!!