pedrocasilva Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Indeed, certainly that effort would have to be made, but it was already confirmed in an interview that some teams are already making proprietary tools to convert programmable shaders to fixed function calls... And I know that Framework was made with multi-core processors in mind, but that doesn't mean that Lost Planet on PC isn't going to run on a single processor, (not with the same performance, though). If the console continues to sell like this, I think sooner or later that effort is going to be made to assure the ports from the other systems... The results wouldn't be the same, of course, but at least it would allow a toned-down version of those games. Anyway, that's not relevant in this discussion:). The truth is, Capcom has no excuse, I hope they apply some better textures to those models till it comes out. Apart from that, the inclusion of co-op is pretty sweet. Thing is... Tools will most likely barely make it, just like you won't use a conversor program to turn the TEV shader into a Shader Model x.x compliant one. They should learn how to program for it and it's strenghts instead, since in reality it's not more hard than Shader Model is. Also, they shouldn't be (at least completly) fixed function calls, TEV is totally programable it's just that the overhead after it is fixed (probably is fixed actually, since we don't know what they changed), but you have 16 totally programable stages before that. In reality if you know what you're doing, you can do pretty much what you want. If they were to attempt a LP or DR port... they could import most geometry, character models and move sets into a Wii engine since these are most likely done outside the engine's SKU. I don't know if they could spare that much work having a stripped down framework engine. Still, a optimized engine is a optimized engine, it's always welcome. As for not making sense to discuss this, who cares I don't :wink:
Konfucius Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 The shadows suck, this is not PS2 (or N64 for that matter) and I've seen they doing a lot better with this engine (and platform). I watched this trailers and it seems that in some parts they have good shadows, in some parts bad and in other no shadows at all. So I guess either some things are pre-rendered or the video is cut together from different times of developement and that the final game will indeed have good lighting.
Meo Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Thing is... Tools will most likely barely make it, just like you won't use a conversor program to turn the TEV shader into a Shader Model x.x compliant one. They should learn how to program for it and it's strenghts instead, since in reality it's not more hard than Shader Model is. Also, they shouldn't be (at least completly) fixed function calls, TEV is totally programable it's just that the overhead after it is fixed (probably is fixed actually, since we don't know what they changed), but you have 16 totally programable stages before that. In reality if you know what you're doing, you can do pretty much what you want. If they were to attempt a LP or DR port... they could import most geometry, character models and move sets into a Wii engine since these are most likely done outside the engine's SKU. I don't know if they could spare that much work having a stripped down framework engine. Still, a optimized engine is a optimized engine, it's always welcome. As for not making sense to discuss this, who cares I don't :wink: Yes, believing that those tools would solve everything is a mistake; It is a diferent arquitecture and as such it must be treated differently. I was also aware that the TEV has now 16 stages, at least according the some older patents and some developers, and those imply that it is no longer *just* the same pipeline it was on GC. Problem is... who are the developers who are going to exploit it? It crosses my mind names like Factor 5, Capcom, Amusement Vision, Konami(the team making Dewis), Square... Nintendo is actually the one to blame about, as they don't release enough info, despite the fact that they are now trying to reverse that situation, by giving workshops and demonstrating how some effects might be achieved (like fur shaders). Companies like RARE had those informations years ago. Hell, Star Fox Adventure is technically more advanced than most Wii games:heh:. Fact is most developers nowadays have a preset way of thinking, anything different from standard arquitectures is overlooked and therefore inferior. Not much developers are going to make low-level optimizations to try to exploit the hardware in its full capacity... As for Umbrella, I'm surprised that it doesn't look better then it does. Considering RE4 was running on a machine that has roughly half of the RAM and clockspeeds that the Wii has (without even considering other optimizations/bottlenecks removed)... I see no reason why this shouldn't look better. I'm sure Capcom is up to the challenge, and they will take some of placeholders they have there:). As for the world geometry and models that they've used on Lost Planet and Dead Rising, I think none of them should have to be downgraded if a port were to be made on Wii. Most of those models don't have very high polygon counts... Shaders take care of the rest of the detail. And considering the exotic texturing capabilities that Flipper/Holywood have... Wii wouldn't have that problem as well. As for discussing it here, well... I tryed to restrain myself of going into it simply because most people don't care about it, and generally most threads that have technical conversations create some flame wars (specially when it comes to Wii):p. (/rant mode off)
pedrocasilva Posted July 5, 2007 Posted July 5, 2007 Yes, believing that those tools would solve everything is a mistake; It is a diferent arquitecture and as such it must be treated differently. I was also aware that the TEV has now 16 stages, at least according the some older patents and some developers, and those imply that it is no longer *just* the same pipeline it was on GC. Problem is... who are the developers who are going to exploit it? It crosses my mind names like Factor 5, Capcom, Amusement Vision, Konami(the team making Dewis), Square... Nintendo is actually the one to blame about, as they don't release enough info, despite the fact that they are now trying to reverse that situation, by giving workshops and demonstrating how some effects might be achieved (like fur shaders). Companies like RARE had those informations years ago. Hell, Star Fox Adventure is technically more advanced than most Wii games:heh:. Fact is most developers nowadays have a preset way of thinking, anything different from standard arquitectures is overlooked and therefore inferior. Not much developers are going to make low-level optimizations to try to exploit the hardware in its full capacity... Yes, I completly agree. But Rare also had a big budget and was always asking for more money, the project was actually kinda stalled for some times, so the team would focus on the graphics, still... definetly they had a lot of documentation. As for Umbrella, I'm surprised that it doesn't look better then it does. Considering RE4 was running on a machine that has roughly half of the RAM and clockspeeds that the Wii has (without even considering other optimizations/bottlenecks removed)... I see no reason why this shouldn't look better. I'm sure Capcom is up to the challenge, and they will take some of placeholders they have there:).I'm not that optimist, that said it's only natural that they don't "kill it" on the first time arround. But they could try harder, and at least use the extra RAM. As for the world geometry and models that they've used on Lost Planet and Dead Rising, I think none of them should have to be downgraded if a port were to be made on Wii. Most of those models don't have very high polygon counts... Shaders take care of the rest of the detail. And considering the exotic texturing capabilities that Flipper/Holywood have... Wii wouldn't have that problem as well.I actually think I talked about Lost Planet polycounts before, it's 12.000 per character whereas RE4 was 10.000 so yeah, no problem at all, even if they had to downgrade some effects. Still I don't know what they were doing with the CPU's so perhaps the AI had to be dumbed down, or the number of enemies on-screen had to be decreased, perhaps physics too. Still even if it's possible you'd have to, rewrite the shaders, resample the textures until they fit, etc... that's a load of work. Framework is meant for cross platform games, meaning no porting and for Wii there would be porting. I watched this trailers and it seems that in some parts they have good shadows, in some parts bad and in other no shadows at all. So I guess either some things are pre-rendered or the video is cut together from different times of developement and that the final game will indeed have good lighting.The lightning of the scenarios is good, but the characters really need work. And sadly I'm not putting my hand on fire they will be reworked.
Hero-of-Time Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Boo for the lack of R Evil 2 sections ( again! ) Yay for the narration by Wesker. Big mistake peeing Wesker off, BIG mistake.....
Retro_Link Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 AWESOME!! Finally we hear from Leon, though they still aren't showing him! Loved the whole computer voice to the trailer and Weskers section at the end.... haha, this is gonna be amazing!!
Zechs Merquise Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 This looks better and better all the time. I reckon it'll be great, may even outsell RE5 due to the lack of uptake of PS3 woo!
DCK Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 I have a feeling that this is just a showcase of Wii graphics and doesn't have very much depth at all
Retro_Link Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 I have a feeling that this is just a showcase of Wii graphics and doesn't have very much depth at all Well they did promise some 15+ hours of gameplay, so we'll see... There's also the new Wesker/Umbrella chapters, so at least there's something very substantially new in the game!
James McGeachie Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 AWESOME!! Finally we hear from Leon, though they still aren't showing him! Loved the whole computer voice to the trailer and Weskers section at the end.... haha, this is gonna be amazing!! I'm seriously hoping that ISN'T Leon speaking, it's such a crap voice. It's a bit annoying how Wesker is the only character who's voice actor Capcom feels the need to be consistent.
Goron_3 Posted July 6, 2007 Author Posted July 6, 2007 God that looked beautiful Though I think I saw a Regenarator somewhere in there *hides behind closet*
Blue_Ninja0 Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 I can't say it looks bad anymore! That trailer looks really good. But there's a chance the game will be short or just don't have any big depth at all. Let's hope it's just not a quick cash in on the RE name.
Retro_Link Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 I can't say it looks bad anymore! That trailer looks really good. But there's a chance the game will be short or just don't have any big depth at all. Let's hope it's just not a quick cash in on the RE name. http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/780/780373p1.html Kawata is promising that the title will run between 15 and 20 hours long If the keep to that it will be just fine!
Ash Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 AWESOME!! Finally we hear from Leon, though they still aren't showing him! Loved the whole computer voice to the trailer and Weskers section at the end.... haha, this is gonna be amazing!! What part did you hear his voice, ive watched it a few times and can not make Leons out?
Mokong Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 ah that new trailer was wicked, really getting hyped for this game
Guyver Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Billy = Rebecca? haha yeah i was wondering did they make a mistake on billy's photo description:smile:
Blue_Ninja0 Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 Billy = Rebecca? Wow, that was strage. Maybe it's a massive overplot which should not be spoiled, but now it's too late.
Hellfire Posted July 6, 2007 Posted July 6, 2007 OR and this is crazy, it's just an error they haven't fixed yet. Crazy, I know.
Noku Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 Any of you reckon they just turned the option "show guns" off? Hate it when the guns don't show, and hate it even more when the hands don't show with them
Zechs Merquise Posted July 7, 2007 Posted July 7, 2007 Any of you reckon they just turned the option "show guns" off? Hate it when the guns don't show, and hate it even more when the hands don't show with them nah, it's a lightgun game, guns never show in a ight gun game. But I know what you mean, I hated the fact that in Ghost Recon on the GC you couldn't show your gun.
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