What are various series' lowest points?

[Rummy]

23 hours ago, darksnowman said:

Not only were films a different sort of beast at that time (as you mentioned above with the likes of Total Recall), Mario was still a ways from being distilled down to the clean, sterile template we... enjoy... nowadays so the casting didn't seem as outlandish as it might do through today's prism.

you mean the guy who regularly consumed mushrooms then jumped down pipes he should have been mending, presumably full of shit and all kinds of other stuff?

[Dcubed]

The Final Fantasy series has a huge swarth of lows... Chocobo GP on Switch, Chaos Killing Simulator Stranger of Paradise, Final Fantasy 13, the original version of Final Fantasy 14 that was so bad that it was pulled from store shelves and remade from scratch? But Final Fantasy: All The Bravest has to be the series lowpoint surely?

will knock your credit rating down!

I mean, even massive corporate shill IGN went out of its way to make a PSA video to not buy this game! Hell, even Game Informer, whose job is literally to sell you stuff from Gamestop, absolutely eviscerated this money grubbing mobile shite! You know it's some real low shit when even they actively encourage you not to buy something!

Can anyone here think of any FF series lowpoint lower than FF ATB?

Edited March 17, 2022 by Dcubed

[bob]

The Final Fantasy series has a huge swarth of lows... Chocobo GP on Switch, Chaos Killing Simulator Stranger of Paradise, Final Fantasy 13, the original version of Final Fantasy 14 that was so bad that it was pulled from store shelves and remade from scratch? But Final Fantasy: All The Bravest has to be the series lowpoint surely?

will knock your credit rating down!

I mean, even massive corporate shill IGN went out of its way to make a

to not buy this game! Hell, even Game Informer, whose job is literally to sell you stuff from Gamestop, absolutely eviscerated this money grubbing mobile shite! You know it's some real low shit when even they actively encourage you not to buy something!
Can anyone here think of any FF series lowpoint lower than FF ATB?

A whole swarth!?

[Cube]

Another low point that is often overlooked is mobile games. 

Time limited loot boxes, requiring certain characters and parts to get better scores, progress reset every few weeks and some rewards (plus a difficulty) hidden behind a subscription. Mario Kart Tour is an incredibly predatory game. Everything about this game is geared towards exploiting people - especially children.

Of course, loads of franchises has stuff like this, but Mario Kart Tour is one of the worst examples I've played. You have some cases of straight up slot machine games with microtransactions:

Outside of lootbox stuff, there can be some odd advertising games, pretty harmless but still strange.

 

 

 

[Dcubed]

Absolutely @Cube! I can't believe that I didn't even think to post Mario Kart Tour!!

This thing is a monster.  It is so predatory that it's shocking that Nintendo allowed it to get released.  Check out this Jimquisition video about the wretched little thing...

Not only is it a gacha fuelled microtransaction hellscape, the damn thing has its own fucking monthly subscription that adds up to $60 a year! That's more than an NSO + Expansion Pak subscription for one, single mobile F2P trash game!!!

And if that isn't bad enough? THIS THING COST US A REAL MARIO KART 9 ON SWITCH!!! It is absolutely NOT a small project, it's a full-on HD Mario Kart game; with more than 100 people who worked on it.  It literally prevented Nintendo from making an original Mario Kart game for the Switch... Mario Kart Switch died for this game's sins!

And the best part of it all? This game was a huge commercial failure!  All of those years of development, hundreds of millions spent on its development, the hundreds of people who were completely wasted on this project?  All for naught.  The game just barely brought in around $200 million in revenue, roughly the equivilent of 3.3 million copies sold at $60; a massive failure considering the huge opportunity cost incurred by this game.

This game is an insight into the future that we would've had if the Switch had been a commercial failure... where Nintendo had no choice but to go all-in on mobile and abandon the dedicated hardware/software business... [shudder]...

And you people wonder why I celebrated so much when the Mario Kart 8 Booster Course Pack was announced!  That thing is the penance that Mario Kart Tour is finally about to pay! The rare example of justice being served within this industry 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Dcubed

[Dufniall]

Yes, Mario Kart Tour is an absolutely horrible product that should have

NEVER

seen the light of day!!

 

 

Still love playing it every day though.

[CrowingJoe79]

RE6 was trash. You know?

Capcom tried to rip off Gears of War 3 with that game. They did a lot of spin off titles that are stinkers as well. Namely Umbrella Corps and Operation Raccoon City. It's a wonder Capcom even published those games in the first instance. They were absolutely awful...

Rather than doing a proper PS5 co-op RE game or something, they tack on these ridiculous non canon modes into the mainline games. Like none of it is even good. It's practically lazy to not do proper storylines for these minor characters. So I think that 2012 was a really bad year for the company. 

[Glen-i]

3 hours ago, CrowingJoe79 said:

RE6 was trash. You know?

Capcom tried to rip off Gears of War 3 with that game. They did a lot of spin off titles that are stinkers as well. Namely Umbrella Corps and Operation Raccoon City. It's a wonder Capcom even published those games in the first instance. They were absolutely awful...

Rather than doing a proper PS5 co-op RE game or something, they tack on these ridiculous non canon modes into the mainline games. Like none of it is even good. It's practically lazy to not do proper storylines for these minor characters. So I think that 2012 was a really bad year for the company. 

I wouldn't say that counts. The game did OK enough. Selling slightly less then 5 and a little more then 7. RE6 has more of a polarising reception. For every person who think it's rubbish, there's likely another person who quite enjoyed it.

You're letting your personal opinion cloud your judgement. You want a Resi game that did universally bad?

There you go.

[CrowingJoe79]

Actually, a lot of fans like that game from the early 2000s. The same with Dead Aim. It's not quite as detested. 

[Glen-i]

10 minutes ago, CrowingJoe79 said:

Actually, a lot of fans like that game from the early 2000s. The same with Dead Aim. It's not quite as detested. 

Doesn't matter, it's sales were absolutely woeful. One of the least successful games in the franchise.

[Jonnas]

11 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Doesn't matter, it's sales were absolutely woeful. One of the least successful games in the franchise.

I mean, to be fair, most mentions in this thread aren't about sales, they're about personal preferences (or rather, dislikes).

Like, the Terry Bogard commercial I posted is for a game that did (and still does) well, and came at a good point in SNK's history. Half of the things that DCubed mentioned on Final Fantasy were also fairly successful commercially.

For the most glaring discrepancy, the petting mini-game in FE Fates was embarrassing, but the game sold immensely while the series was (and still is) rising in prominence. If we were going for the actual commercial low point of the series, we would mention the entire Wii/DS generation, especially the fan favourite Radiant Dawn (search your feelings, you know this to be true)

All I'm saying is, Resident Evil 6 is a fair pick. Outside of spinoffs, it likely sports the lowest critical reception in the series.

[Dcubed]

Oh yeah, no doubt; Resident Evil 6 is a very good choice for that series' lowpoint.  It is, by far, the most critically panned game in the entire series; it was so bad in fact, that it spurred Capcom to completely reboot the series with RE7 as a result.

It was also far from the commercial success that its total sales would suggest... as almost all of those sales came from bargain basement discounts many many years after it came out.  It had a budget that was around 3x bigger than RE5 and didn't even come close to selling as much at full RRP; it price-collapsed very quickly!  Make no mistake, RE6 was a huge failure and RE7 was a direct response to that failure for a damn good reason.

Is it THE biggest lowpoint for the series? I'm not so sure when there are seven shitastic RE movies to choose from, as well as nine horrible mobile titles to choose from and four depressing and horrendous F2P multiplayer spinoffs that all equally besmirch the series' name...

If I have to pick just one true series lowpoint though? I'd probably have to give it to Resident Evil Retribution (the 5th RE movie) however, purely for how much pathetic Sony product placement (& other products) is absolutely littered throughout...

I honestly would've believed this to be a Sony infomercial if it didn't have the Resident Evil logo on it

Oh boy! I can't wait for Resident Evil Portable! Any day now...

Edited March 23, 2022 by Dcubed

[Dcubed]

Oh! Speaking of Sony... That reminds me of another little product placement gem regarding the Uncharted series... I hope you like Subway!

 

How did he even manage to find a Subway in the middle of a desert anyway!?

 

There are plenty of other embarrasing little Uncharted product placement examples we can choose from, but this one is my favourite 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Dcubed

[Dcubed]

While the Kirby series doesn't really have any real major lowpoint per-say (though him being attached to the F2P Team Kirby Clash games on 3DS and Switch certainly rubs me the wrong way), a rather strange promotion literally just got announced that certainly fits well within the theme of this thread!

Presenting... Kirby hocking Suntory's Craft Boss Coffee brand in Japan!

 

Not exactly how I imagined Kirby celebrating his 30th anniversary, but whatever gets his rocks off I suppose 

[Jonnas]

You call that a low point? That jazz coffee commercial was the best thing I've ever seen!

[Josh64]

On 13/03/2022 at 2:46 PM, Glen-i said:

It didn't start off well, but then that happened and I immediately starting folding into myself out of pure cringe.

That's real bad!

This is one of two reasons why I can't deal with Persona, despite being an RPG fan. Because of that, you kinda develop a tolerance for this kind of stuff and roll with it.

But somewhere, there is a line, and Persona constantly crosses it by contradicting the messages it tries to put forward for cheap fanservice. And it's really blatant. And I just know it would impact my enjoyment.

A good comparison is the Persona and Fire Emblem spin off, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, which is not without it's problems, but is so much more restrained, especially the western version. My theory is that Nintendo may have been reining in the fanservice that the Persona influence might have had. Remember, the western version edits some costumes to be less revealing and flat out replaces the typical swimsuit outfits with something far more tasteful and better looking really.

Boy, a lot of guys really outed their misogynistic views when they started complaining about that! Meanwhile, I immediately chose that outfit for Tsubasa and Ellie and never looked back!

So yeah, I think Atlus really needs a third party to give them a heads up whenever things get a bit too much.

I didn't know they were the swimsuit replacements! That's my favourite Tsubasa outfit so we definitely got a win there! 

 

I remember 2015/16 being a particularly hard time for Nintendo franchises largely because Nintendo was struggling and rushing things out or giving things to outside developers.

Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, Star Fox Zero, Hey Pikmin, Chibi-Robo Ziplash and Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival all came out in about the span of a year. Without the foresight of knowing the switch was going to become the success it was and following on from years of dreadful WiiU sales it certainly seemed like a rough time to be a Nintendo optimist! 

 

[Josh64]

On 13/03/2022 at 1:50 AM, Glen-i said:

 

But I think there's been at least one lower point for the series, and here it is.

If there was ever a screenshot that proved how desperate Nintendo got during the GameCube era? This was it.

This is from NBA Street V3. Now, don't get me wrong. This isn't me dunking on the game, I heard it was perfectly OK. And it certainly isn't a low point for EA. But it's pretty obvious what happened here. EA weren't interested in releasing this on the GameCube because it was getting destroyed by the competition. So Ninty pulled out a power bargaining chip and offered the use of Mario, Luigi, and Peach here.

 

 

It's so ridiculous I love it but I can see how it's a low point. I think it worked though, I was about 13 then with no interest in NBA Street but seeing those shots in NOM really put it on the radar for me so I imagine it might have done the same for a few of the younger GameCube players. 

I also wonder if it could be inspired by Soul Calibre? I remember reading back in the day how Soul Calibre 2 was a rare example of the GameCube version selling more than the PS2 of Xbox versions (at least initially) and it was attributed to Links inclusion.

[Glen-i]

1 minute ago, Josh64 said:

I also wonder if it could be inspired by Soul Calibre? I remember reading back in the day how Soul Calibre 2 was a rare example of the GameCube version selling more than the PS2 of Xbox versions (at least initially) and it was attributed to Links inclusion.

I'm almost certain it was Ninty trying to make lightning strike twice.

The Soul Caliber II guest characters kinda prove my point about how crossover characters have to somewhat make sense. Link, naturally, uses a lot of weapons, and doesn't look totally out of place in that roster. Compare that to the other platforms, which don't quite hit that natural inclusion sweet spot with their guest characters.

Also helps that Link being in a non-Nintendo game was a huge deal back then. You can't find many other characters from that era with that kind of clout.

[Cube]

I'm a big Star Wars fan, but Yoda and Vader in Soul Calibur 4 just seemed incredibly dumb and out of place. 

And the part that makes Soul Calibur 4 perfect for this thread: they weren't even available on the same platforms, so they couldn't even fight each other.

The exclusive characters make sense when they're tied to the platform owners, but this was purely done for marketing.

 

(I believe they later sold the other character as DLC for a temporary period).

[Josh64]

2 hours ago, Glen-i said:

I'm almost certain it was Ninty trying to make lightning strike twice.

The Soul Caliber II guest characters kinda prove my point about how crossover characters have to somewhat make sense. Link, naturally, uses a lot of weapons, and doesn't look totally out of place in that roster. Compare that to the other platforms, which don't quite hit that natural inclusion sweet spot with their guest characters.

Also helps that Link being in a non-Nintendo game was a huge deal back then. You can't find many other characters from that era with that kind of clout.

Yeah Link was a perfect fit and you're right - Link in another title, especially a non-Nintendo one, was a huge deal back then. 

Do you think Nintendo reached those NBA levels of desperation since? I know in the early WiiU days Tekken and Rayman had Mario costumes but that did seem to be handled a lot better (especially as Tekken does have some great goofy characters already). 

Need For Speed had a fair few Mario references but I think that was done very tastefully too as oppose to an out of place looking playable Mario. 

 

[Jonnas]

It should be noted, Link's inclusion in Soul Calibur II shaped that series' identity going forward, and was by no means its low point. That dishonour goes to the incredibly rushed Soul Calibur V

It's not a terrible game (there's still a solid, if unusual, gameplay foundation in there. Plus, the graphics look fine, the music's still great, and Ezio is an excellent guest), but between the incomplete (and terrible) story, the baffling cast, barebones DLC, and the fact that it was designed more like most typical fighting games than its predecessors (a.k.a. lost a lot of elements that made Soul Calibur unique), it just missed the mark on a lot of important points.

You can easily blame that game for the series going into oblivion until SCVI soft-rebooted the franchise, restoring its dignity.

Soul Calibur II HD for Switch when, Nintendo?

Just now, Josh64 said:

Do you think Nintendo reached those NBA levels of desperation since?

Not sure if "Desperation" is the right word, but speaking of the Wii U days...

Some weird crossovers were definitely gotten.

[Dcubed]

Soul Calibur 5 is certainly a low-point as far as the mainline series goes... but we can do better than that...

Bet you forgot this trash existed!

An absolutely insulting piece of shovelware that was unceremoneously forced upon Wii owners as compensation for not getting Soul Calibur 4.  An utterly grim experience from start to finish that exemplifies so perfectly how utterly little of a shit that 3rd parties gave to the platform... You wonder why Wii owners distrusted pretty much any and all 3rd party games shovelled their way?

Well

here's

why!

 

 

Now, this game is bad enough for how it drags the good name of Soul Calibur through the mud, but oh no... that's not enough to satiate its desire for brand destruction... Because it also has the gall to drag poor Tales of Symphonia's Lloyd Iirving down with it too!

 

 

And you thought that Dawn of the New World was his lowpoint!!!

So there you have it.  Another fine example of a disasterpiece of a game that pummels not one, but TWO series into the dirt at the same time! Street Fighter X Tekken is in good company 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Dcubed

[Jonnas]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

And you thought that Dawn of the New World was his lowpoint!!!

I mean... it still is. SC Legends may have been low-budget shovelware, and Lloyd's moveset is mostly copied from Cervantes (not playable in that game) but at least there's some basic respect for his character.

By comparison, I utterly despise how he was written in DotNW. They turned an inspiring cheery idealist into the most lazily written brooding anti-hero I've ever seen. Dreadful. Lloyd was easily the worst part of that game.

[WackerJr]

I like this topic and the scope for ‘lowness’! 😀 Some great examples suggested. A few others sprung to mind:

WWE 2K (2019, multi-platform)

A buggy mess that saw #FixWWE2K20 trending and contributed to the cancellation of the following years’ title, and a 2-year gap for this usually annual wrestling game.

Long-time developer Yukes had left, and somehow this game was allowed to be released in a clearly unfit state.  Things continued to get worse too, as the more expensive collector’s edition, supposedly containing wrestler autographs, were sent out without the actual signatures (which lead to one wrestler, Edge, setting up a PO Box himself to allow people to send him their copies to sign).

To add a huge heap of ironic misery to the situation, the game even initially suffered a game-breaking bug when attempting to play WWE 2K20 when the year changed to 2020!

Yes game fixes were subsequently implemented, but the damage had been done.  It didn’t kill the series, but caused a huge black mark, a delay to future games, and a lot of rebuilding (both with game engine and in reputation).

 

Bubsy 3D (1996/7, PS1)

This attempt at revitalising the Bubsy series effectively killed it (at least we thought / hoped, until a new game was made 20 years later!).  It was being developed as one of the first console 3D platformers and then shortly before release the developers saw Super Mario 64 demoed and swiftly realised how inferior Bubsy looked in comparison!  It was too late to change though, so their game was released and made to look even worse in the shadow of Mario’s 3D masterpiece.

Balan Wonderworld (2021, multi-platform)

Ok, so I cheated as I really can’t see this becoming a series after the disastrous reception of this!  It did however, cause the co-creator of Sonic to leave Square-Enix so is likely considered one of the low points for everyone involved…. According to him, he actually left six months before the game was released, after complaining about the state of the game.

[Jonnas]

9 hours ago, WackerJr said:

To add a huge heap of ironic misery to the situation, the game even initially suffered a game-breaking bug when attempting to play WWE 2K20 when the year changed to 2020!

I heard a lot of this game's failings, but I didn't know this. Dear God, that's actually hilarious.