Xbox Series S | X Console Discussion

[Esequiel]

23 hours ago, Ike said:

I was going to ask if you got it back. That sucks, I don't get why they are messing you around so much.

They just tested the console I am sure of it. The console works, just certain games that don’t, it’s crazy!

 

I actually managed to get another one so I still have one, just £450 in the hole lol

[Ganepark32]

Didn't take long for the uproar to make Microsoft change their minds. Better yet, they're now also making it so that free to play games are actually free to play, not tucked behind a Gold sub:

Its the right call but they should never have tried to double the price without a justification (not that there really is one for Gold or even for paying for online play). I imagine there's a lot of red faces over at Microsoft right now though.

If they were trying to shore up their finances, with this being part of how they were trying to do it, curious where they'll try and plug that gap down the line. I still think GPU will get a price increase this year so perhaps there. Or they'll most like limit the conversion of Gold to GPU.

[Hero-of-Time]

Given how quick they've changed their minds, part of me wonders if this was planned from the start. They could test the waters to see if people would willingly accept the price change and if not they would announce it would stay the same and get rid of the FTP game barrier, thus being seen as the good guy and a company that listens. Either way they get something out of it.

Regardless, it's good for those who are part of the Xbox ecosystem that the price isn't changing.

[Dcubed]

Wait? WTF!? What’s going on here?

If this was intentional, it was a really stupid idea! This doesn’t make them look good, it makes them look clueless and reactive as they desperately try to cover up their arses in public.

It feels like the whole online-only thing with Xbone all over again.

[Sheikah]

Wait? WTF!? What’s going on here?
If this was intentional, it was a really stupid idea! This doesn’t make them look good, it makes them look clueless and reactive as they desperately try to cover up their arses in public.
It feels like the whole online-only thing with Xbone all over again.

Aye, this is the X1 policy reversals all over again. The arrogance never went anywhere.

[Cube]

Interesting that Phil Spencer stayed away from the initial price hike announcement to keep his image clean.

 

He's no less manipulative as other PR people.

[Ronnie]

Really weird for a big company to announce a price hike and then U-turn the next day. Makes them look really amateurish and unsure of themselves, like they're making it up as they go along.

It's hard to get too upset given the years of pro consumer moves and the incredible value of gaming on Xbox... but the whole thing just feels really suspect.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Ronnie

[Hero-of-Time]

22 minutes ago, Cube said:

Interesting that Phil Spencer stayed away from the initial price hike announcement to keep his image clean.

 

He's no less manipulative as other PR people.

True but I still think he's the best out of the 3 console makers. He seems more willing to talk to various outlets about a range of things and just generally seems more open than Jim Ryan or Doug Bowser. I've never liked Jim (seems very arrogant) and Doug is just the puppet of Nintendo of Japan, who doesnt say anything of worth.

[Sheikah]

Really weird for a big company to announce a price hike and then U-turn the next day. Makes them look really amateurish and unsure of themselves, like they're making it up as they go along.

It's hard to get too upset given the years of pro consumer moves and the incredible value of gaming on Xbox... but the whole thing just feels really suspect.

Worth bearing in mind that online gaming was free until they started charging for it, and now the other 2 console manufacturers have copied them. Up until now they also haven't allowed you to play F2P without a Gold subscription, and they tried to implement always online and no game sharing at the start of the X1 generation. And their first party games often have microtransactions.

 

If anything they've always been at the forefront of anti-consumer moves.

[Ronnie]

29 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Doug is just the puppet of Nintendo of Japan

Probably because NoA are only in charge of distribution, localisation and marketing. It's the same as Reggie, just a PR mouthpiece for the West for what Nintnedo of Japan do.

[Cube]

They're also trying their hardest to remove ownership of games from gamers. The Xbox One failed at this, Game Pass is more successful.

 

[Ronnie]

26 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

If anything they've always been at the forefront of anti-consumer moves.

Oh come on. 

Much as I hate the term "anti-consumer", Microsoft since Phil Spencer took over are as far away from that as possible of the three. They've made tons of pro consumer moves in recent years, until yesterday's announcement.

[Cube]

You can't hate the term "anti-consumer" while using "pro-consumer". They're both part of the same thing.

Microsoft releasing games on Microsoft Windows is no more "pro consumer" than Sony releasing PS3 games on Vita. 

[Sheikah]

Oh come on. 

Much as I hate the term "anti-consumer", Microsoft since Phil Spencer took over are as far away from that as possible of the three. They've made tons of pro consumer moves in recent years, until yesterday's announcement.

You know that most of the anti-consumer things I listed are still happening right now? Including the attempt to rise the price yesterday.

 

Their attempt to rise the price also plays into their Game Pass strategy - by increasing the price they will push people onto Game Pass.

 

Game Pass is praised for being cheap but it's pretty clear once it has enough uptake they will up the price, just like they tried to do here with XBL Gold. And if it becomes the norm then people will lose their game ownership.

[Ike]

There's no way they made the u-turn design in 1 day. And they suddenly remembered that Gold was required for F2P games? Reminds me when you needed Gold to use Netflix. it was obvious they had a plan B. I've seen people rush out to stock up on 12 months cards when now they didn't need to.

12 minutes ago, Cube said:

They're also trying their hardest to remove ownership of games from gamers. The Xbox One failed at this, Game Pass is more successful.

Yeah, funny how you dress it up differently and suddenly it's OK. Microsoft still achieved their original intent (to a point).

On an un-related topic, I've noticed my A button doesn't always register a press. A quick Google suggests this is a common issue if you press it at a certain angle? Anyone else noticed this?

[Ronnie]

15 minutes ago, Cube said:

You can't hate the term "anti-consumer" while using "pro-consumer". They're both part of the same thing.

Yes, I don't like either term. 

15 minutes ago, Cube said:

Microsoft releasing games on Microsoft Windows is no more "pro consumer" than Sony releasing PS3 games on Vita. 

Backwards compatibility on Xbox One? Xbox Elite controller? Adaptive controller? Game Pass? Xbox One controllers work on next gen? Cross play moves with Nintendo/Minecraft? Putting their games on other platforms? Smart Delivery? Play Anywhere? xCloud game streaming with GamePass?

Since Phil Spencer took over they've been the gold standard for "pro consumer". Until yesterday, (which they've now walked back).

Edited January 23, 2021 by Ronnie

[Cube]

13 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Backwards compatibility on Xbox One? Xbox Elite controller? Adaptive controller? Game Pass? Xbox One controllers work on next gen? Cross play moves with Nintendo/Minecraft? Putting their games on other platforms? Smart Delivery? Play Anywhere? xCloud game streaming with GamePass?

Backwards compatibility was a thing far before then. The biggest reason the PS4 wasn't backwards compatible with the PS3 was because it was literally impossible. 

Xbox Elite controller....selling a rubbish controller in the box and making people buy an improved one (especially one still lacking many features of other controllers) separately is definitely not pro-consumer. The vast majority of people only need one controller.

Adaptive controller is a good thing. 

Game Pass is offering a subscription service. They weren't the first, it happened a lot with music and films, now lots of people don't own many of either. Sony and EA also already had services before Game Pass.

Xbox One controllers working are a good thing. But Sony not doing isn't a bad thing either due to new features in their controller.

Smart Delivery is a dumb manipulative marketing term for the same thing that Sony did with a bunch of games on PS4, and with a load of games on PS5.

Play Anywhere is a very limited feature, and again something Sony has done before too. 

XCloud streaming with Game Pass...it's not. It's only part of the higher tier package. With PS Now it's part of the basic package. 

 

If "Anti-consumer" is when a company punishes the customer for their own greed, then "Pro consumer" is more when a company chooses to do something that's a determent to themselves for the benefit of consumers. 

 

Most of what Microsoft have done is for their own benefit. Sure, a lot of them are good things, but the majority are not "pro consumer". 

[Map]

What a strange turn of events, definitely seems like Microsoft were putting out feelers to see if people were willing to take a price increase, guess they got their answer.

Just shows that all this pro/anti consumer talk is just nonsense really, none of these companies are our friends and their end goal is to extract as much money out of us as possible. People like Jim Ryan and Phil Spencer are just salesmen at the end of the day.

[Dcubed]

4 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

True but I still think he's the best out of the 3 console makers. He seems more willing to talk to various outlets about a range of things and just generally seems more open than Jim Ryan or Doug Bowser. I've never liked Jim (seems very arrogant) and Doug is just the puppet of Nintendo of Japan, who doesnt say anything of worth.

Say what you will about Microsoft, but they are the most willing to listen to consumer feedback and are far more willing to actually act on it than either Nintendo or Sony.  They've also made some great strides over the past few years with some fantastic initiatives that I wish that Nintendo & Sony would do!

They are also the most transparant about what they plan to do (for better or worse).  We all know that Game Pass is a trojan horse for the eventual removal of game ownership (and even bespoke hardware, as Xbox transitions into becoming a service, rather than a hardware platform); and that the price of Game Pass will inevitably increase.  They are following squarely in Netflix's footsteps, and they're not shy about admitting that.

For however "anti-consumer" Microsoft have been? At least they're honest; and don't actively try to mislead their customers.  That's far more than I can say of most other game publishers & platform holders.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Dcubed

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Cube said:

Backwards compatibility was a thing far before then. The biggest reason the PS4 wasn't backwards compatible with the PS3 was because it was literally impossible. 

Xbox Elite controller....selling a rubbish controller in the box and making people buy an improved one (especially one still lacking many features of other controllers) separately is definitely not pro-consumer. The vast majority of people only need one controller.

Adaptive controller is a good thing. 

Game Pass is offering a subscription service. They weren't the first, it happened a lot with music and films, now lots of people don't own many of either. Sony and EA also already had services before Game Pass.

Xbox One controllers working are a good thing. But Sony not doing isn't a bad thing either due to new features in their controller.

Smart Delivery is a dumb manipulative marketing term for the same thing that Sony did with a bunch of games on PS4, and with a load of games on PS5.

Play Anywhere is a very limited feature, and again something Sony has done before too. 

XCloud streaming with Game Pass...it's not. It's only part of the higher tier package. With PS Now it's part of the basic package. 

 

If "Anti-consumer" is when a company punishes the customer for their own greed, then "Pro consumer" is more when a company chooses to do something that's a determent to themselves for the benefit of consumers. 

 

Most of what Microsoft have done is for their own benefit. Sure, a lot of them are good things, but the majority are not "pro consumer". 

The Xbox One controller is rubbish? Since when? I thought everyone loved it. And then they release a model for the 1%, hardcore gamers, who also (from what I hear) love it.

Sony making it impossible for backwards compatibility on PS4 isn't a good thing, or in any way disregards Xbox's push for it. It's a great service that's there if you want it.

Dismissing Game Pass because music and film did it previously? Really? What does it matter... it's an incredible service!

At the end of the day, I realise that Microsoft is doing all these pro consumer moves because they have to, they lost last gen and are trying to make up for it. Obviously it's all a business. If PS4 had lost then Sony would be making some pro consumer moves. The point I was making wasn't about MS v Sony, just that putting the reasoning aside, Xbox have made some good moves under Phil Spencer and gotten a lot of respect back, so I found it surprising to read yesterday's news. Though the net result from all this is actually another positive step, no need for Live for F2P. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Ronnie

[S.C.G]

Interesting to hear that they've decided to not increase the prices now... I'm still not renewing, but with the news on Free to Play games, soon being actually Free to Play, with that seemingly happening in a few months time, maybe I'll give PSO2 another go.

[Esequiel]

Just got my exchanged console back, sold it for £440 to someone I know who needs one.

[Dcubed]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/sega-games-coming-to-gamepass-might-be-similar-to-ea-deal.370239/
 

More fuel added onto the fire about MS buying SEGA... (or at least striking a deal for Gamepass)

[Dog-amoto]

Does anyone have issues with their Series X disconnecting from WiFi? It’s really strange, I can play alone for hours and it might not do it at all, but even if I try to play something simple with a friend like Peggle 2, it completely disconnects and I have to restart my console. It can do it a few times in half an hour or sometimes it can be fine. It’s really annoying. A wired connection is fine but it’s not ideal. 

[Julius]

Xbox Wireless Headset announced:

More details: