Ashley Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Julius said: I don't think so? Not in the Final Smash (the Smash logo on the door as opposed to Mickey's kind of says it all), no Disney music, etc. Makes sense though. Got to imagine getting Sora and the Keyblade was hard enough, but having Disney in this thing would have made it a future licensing nightmare, I mean I'm just imagining YouTube and Twitch channels getting strikes a decade from now because some Disney song came on. It's enough of a mess these days as it is, even with just the video game music. Yeah I expect that to be the case, I was just checking it was as I was only half-paying attention (or even less paying attention during certain bits) so I thought I'd ask in case I missed something. Cheers!
Glen-i Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Aperson said: I must admit I had written off Sora's chances thinking that Sephiroth was going to be the Square-Enix. Ah, but that was your mistake. Sora's Disney, not Square. Man, it's gonna be surreal seeing Nintendo, Microsoft and Disney on the copyright list on the title screen. Edited October 5, 2021 by Glen-i
bob Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 Who the fuck is that? I don't want to play as some shitty-ass turdface in ridiculous shorts waving a stupid fucking key about.Why is everyone pretending to know who this little shit is, anyway? Nobody has ever heard of fucking Soreen from Kingdoms Heart.Excuse me while I cry myself to sleep tonight. 3 1
Julius Posted October 5, 2021 Author Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) this is way funnier when you realise that almost all of this was likely recorded and edited before the announcement Edited October 5, 2021 by Julius 1 1
Helmsly Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 I think today's announcement was pretty cool, even though I have never played a KH game I know a lot of people wanted him in the game and should be very happy with the reveal. He looked decent to play as too. I am only disappointed that there are no actual Disney characters on his stage or in his final smash. I understand why but that really would have been awesome. And Just a heads up but right now until the 24th of this month, if you buy either of the fighter passes, piranha plant or the game itself on the eshop you get double Gold Points: I decided to pick up the first Fighters pass because of this and will probably get the second one before this deal ends.
Aperson Posted October 5, 2021 Posted October 5, 2021 But you can at least pair Sora up with Donald and Goofy... just do a team match with Duck Hunt Duo as your teammate! 1 1
Glen-i Posted October 6, 2021 Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) Hey, they made the rhythm game spin-off canon, don't see why Smash Ultimate can't get in on that confusing mess! Half expecting his Classic Mode to end with a sudden conversation with Yen Sid about light and darkness and how Galeem and Dharkon embody it! Also... I can see no faults with that argument. EDIT: @markderoos, there's a Metroid Dread Spirit Event coming this weekend. Fair warning though, there's one spirit of something that wasn't shown in the reveal trailer for Dread. So, if you've been avoiding every trailer after that initial one, like me, be careful of spoilers. You wouldn't want to let curiosity or OCD get the better of you, like me... Edited October 6, 2021 by Glen-i 2
Sprout Posted October 6, 2021 Posted October 6, 2021 Whoops forgot to react to things in a timely manner. I suppose I'll do some post thoughts since I popped in yesterday an' all. I'll get the negatives out of the way first, and attempt to cleanse the darkness that resides in my heart. Starting with the one people will probably find obvious: That ain't Wright! Less to do with Sora of course and more Super Smash Bros. Ultimate as a whole but, well, no matter how much of a big deal each new fighter addition is, you're not going to satisfy everyone. And now Ultimate is coming to an end. "Everyone" is here. So to know that after several years of hoping and wishing, that something you wanted may never be a part of what can be argued as one of the biggest celebrations of videogames - not even as a spirit - well, I can't say I'm not disappointed. Combined with other desired characters also not getting to fight, it almost feels like my wants didn't really matter, drowned out amongst all these huge franchises and incredibly loud fan followings. And I feel guilty that there's a part of me that feels that way, because what Ultimate has accomplished is a collaborative effort that's nothing short of phenomenal, with herculean amounts of work and dedication to make it all become a reality and attempt to satisfy as many people as possible, and yet despite this here I am years later still reeling from the words "Yup, it's him.". And I'm sincerely thankful that each and every fighter that has joined the battle has made a great number of people happy, including people I know personally. Furthermore, it's not like Ultimate never elicited a joyful reaction out of me, as there's plenty of stuff both new and returning that I'm very grateful for. But if you'll forgive me for the selfish thought, I wish I could have got to experience those ecstatic feelings that so many others have had with the inclusion of a series and character that I hold a deep affection for. ...Granted, if you were to ask Phoenix himself, he's probably quite happy that he won't be on the receiving end of whatever Smash can throw at him. Man gets enough violence his way in his own series, after all. What the Duck? Where's the Duck? And the mouse and whatever the heck Goofy is I dunno some kind of dog maybe what the hyuck. Now, I am someone who played the first Kingdom Hearts back when it originally released on PS2 and enjoyed it, because I was a child and I had my innocence and no idea what lied ahead. And despite Sora not being who I wanted, watching him soaring about like Peter Pan to Simple and Clean and shaking Mario's hand, that admittedly did hit some feels. But no matter how many mooks you throw at the series that talk about hearts or the light or the darkness or what have you, a big part of the series has always been, y'know, Disney properties. I think it's fair to say that many people knew, even those who wanted Sora, that getting Kingdom Hearts into Smash wouldn't be without compromise. You can see it from the allusion that there won't be a Sora amiibo, and that Kirby apparently is not allowed to wield the Keyblade, so has to make do with an elemental recreation. And most obviously, from the complete and entirely predictable lack of Disney content (with the exception of a keychain). As someone who has only really played the first Kingdom Hearts game I don't suppose my opinion carries much weight, but - putting aside the implication that it would open the Pandora's box that is non-videogame inclusions in Smash - if you can't include the Disney properties, then, in my opinion, you're not really capable of including Kingdom Hearts as a whole. That being said, to be clear, I don't really fault Smash for that. £50 for a Music Track. Look, temporarily locking promotional spirits behind save data from certain games is one thing, but I paid for this Fighters Pass, with all the characters, stages and music associated with it, so to lock some of a DLC stage's music behind owning a different game feels a tad annoying, especially because I like Dearly Beloved, damnit. Do I like it enough to spend money on a rhythm game I'm not particularly interested in? ...Maybe. Frick. ---------- Anyway, whilst I may be a grumpy old man yelling at cloud versions of PS2 games, I don't want to appear as if I'm one, so here's some more positive impressions, too. An Outstanding Job of translating Kingdom Hearts into Smash. Whilst I may have said that getting Kingdom Hearts into Smash required compromise and would have liked to have seen a little of the Disney side of things, please don't misunderstand and think I believe that what is there is bad. Because really, I think that they took what they were allowed to and absolutely delivered. Part of the reason people want their desired character to join the fight, is that when someone gets that invitation, it comes with the knowledge that Sakurai and everyone else working on Smash are putting in as much effort and care into the inclusion as possible. And whilst I don't find the move set particularly interesting, as said before, I've played the first Kingdom Hearts, and though my memories are faint, watching how Sora played and animated, it certainly gave me the impression that they had managed to successfully faithfully capture how Sora plays in Kingdom Hearts, and I imagine bigger fans of the series have a similar impression. People on the internet keep talking about Sakurai retiring, or wishing that he wouldn't work on the next Smash Bros., but whilst that day will inevitably come, I personally think that he should continue to work on the series for as long as he is willing to do so, because time and time again, this man has demonstrated how much he knows and cares about the franchises he gets to work on through Smash. Whenever Smash returns, should he return with it then I welcome him with open arms. And, y'know, if there's an Ultimate Deluxe in the future, if Kingdom Hearts is in, maybe add Cloud's Kingdom Hearts costume whilst you're at at. A Smashing Send Off. I believe the final trailer was successful in conveying what it wanted to. Not just that Sora is here, but that Ultimate has reached its end, and what an incredible celebration it has been. It's easy to forget, but since the start, Smash isn't necessarily the likes of Mario and Pikachu fighting, but action figures or trophies of them. They are a child's plaything. They. Are. All. TOOOYYYS! The characters coming to life and crossing over to engage in battle are the result of your imaginations running free. And once playtime is over, they return to their original form. And that's essentially how this final trailer opens. It's the end of the show, the fire that has burnt brightly from the first trailer has finally burnt out, and the lifelight of the figures fade with it as they all return to the darkness. And yet, one final flicker of the fire remains, one guiding light that is just enough to spark the life back into Mr. Nintendo, who after a brief moment of hesitation (because who wouldn't hesitate at the internet reactions he might bring), throws caution to the wind and his hand into the flame, to reawaken the light. And who better to bring light to chase away the darkness than the protagonist of the series that won't shut up about either (and I say that in the most complimentary way possible of course). And that final parting shot of the handshake as all those other fighters look on, under that rekindled Smash flame is really powerful. Regardless of how you feel about Sora, I don't think there are many characters in the world of videogames not in Smash that you could replace him with in that final image and have it carry quite the same weight. It really can't be stated enough, but Smash is such an incredible accomplishment. I have no idea what lies ahead for the series, but as for where it currently stands... I'd say Ultimate was a pretty fitting title. With the exception of the netcode. And whilst the final trailer is still fresh in your mind, you may as well give this another listen. ---------- Smash is huge, so there's a lot to talk about. It's possible I may more to say about it in the future, now that Ultimate is complete. But for now, this has been the rambling thoughts of Mr. Sproukurai. 6 2
Glen-i Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) Excellent post, @Sprout Thinking back on it all, the complete lack of a new Capcom franchise getting a playable character is probably the most surprising omission amongst Ultimate's newcomers. Now granted, Monster Hunter did get the hilarious Rathalos boss fight and assist trophy, but when that Mii costume made a return, it really did feel like the stars may have been starting to align up for the other blue bomber. All the bigger Capcom franchises had been taken out of the running (Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series!). I actually kinda feel a little bad about my standing on why Phoenix was the most likely Capcom candidate now. Now don't get me wrong. I stand by my argument that Ace Attorney was the biggest Capcom IP left in the running at that point. But maybe I shouldn't have pointed that out quite as much as I did. If it makes you feel any better, I'm a little sad that the 8th generation of Pokémon is likely to get skipped over now. Sword/Shield has some amazing designs that I would have loved to see in Smash! Unless they would've picked Cinderace, in that case, screw 8th Gen! On your point about the obvious lack of Disney. You say it's not on Smash, but I wonder how much of that is actually true? There's defo clear signs of Disney putting it's foot down. (The music including no remixes and it being almost all KH1 music is the biggest sign of that). I wouldn't be surprised if Ninty and Sakurai's negotiation team offered one of those temporary spirit things for Melody of Memory and Disney took the inch and ran a mile by demanding a music track instead. But I'm not entirely sure it's on Disney that Donald and his hilarious voice are missing in action. Sakurai has made his stance clear on characters like Iron Man. To him, Smash is about celebrating video games and video games only. So I think it's possible he just never bothered asking, because he never wanted Mickey and his friends showing up and blurring the video game/other media line. Of course, I have no actual definitive proof of this, just a gut feeling based on previous statements. Man, I would have loved to see those negotiations though. On the 50 pound Dearly Beloved topic. Now, I have happily dropped a couple of quid on a Mii costume purely for the music multiple times (Shantae, Undertale and Cuphead totally deserve it), but even I have to draw the line at buying a whole game for one track! A shame too, because the original Dearly Beloved would not fit Smash at all! But the swing version definitely would work for Smash... That said, I bought Melody of Memory ages ago, it's a fun game, and I would recommend it if you like Rhythm games. And while I have misgivings about locking a track behind an entire game, a little part of me wishes PMD: Rescue Team DX could get some songs in there through a similar method. EDIT: I forgot that the Kingdom Hearts 2 forms involve Sora doing a fusion thing with Donald/Goofy. Clever! OK, LAST EDIT, I PROMISE: Spoiler I like the implication that Sora is the only person Sephiroth is terrified of. Edited October 7, 2021 by Glen-i 1
Ashley Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 18 hours ago, Sprout said: They are a child's plaything. They. Are. All. TOOOYYYS! Everyone read this in Tom Hanks' voice right? 1 1
Glen-i Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 57 minutes ago, Ashley said: Everyone read this in Tom Hanks' voice right? Yup. 1
BowserBasher Posted October 7, 2021 Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Ashley said: Everyone read this in Tom Hanks' voice right? How else are you supposed to read it? Lol 1
Glen-i Posted October 8, 2021 Posted October 8, 2021 So, neat little detail I just learnt. The Dive to the Heart section in Sora's stage seems to have obviously edited out Donald and Goofy for... well... obvious reasons. Spoiler But it turns out this isn't the Smash team editing something to avoid Disney, no, it's Square themselves who did that. 5 years ago. So what I thought was Smash editing an image turned out to be a convenient deep cut! Neat! Yeah, I'm stupid hype for October 18th, it's so far away! 1 2
markderoos Posted October 8, 2021 Posted October 8, 2021 On 6-10-2021 at 8:09 AM, Glen-i said: EDIT: @markderoos, there's a Metroid Dread Spirit Event coming this weekend. Aaaaaaand, done! 1
Glen-i Posted October 9, 2021 Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) Decent quality version of the super horizontal image with every character including Sora. Only just noticed that they added Min Min's Dragon Arm to the things lunging at Wario. Edited October 9, 2021 by Glen-i 3
BowserBasher Posted October 9, 2021 Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Glen-i said: Decent quality version of the super horizontal image with every character including Sora. Only just noticed that they added Min Min's Dragon Arm to the things lunging at Wario. Love the details. Wario and King Dedede reactions and Dr Mario and Game and Watch down in the corner there. Edited October 9, 2021 by BowserBasher
Glen-i Posted October 9, 2021 Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BowserBasher said: Love the details. Wario and King Dedede reactions and Dr Mario and Game and Watch down in the corner there. My favourite part is still Robin wayyyyyy in the other corner, trying to get in some light reading, despite the chaos. You can just imagine Chrom above him trying to gently warn about the utter destruction that's gonna occur behind him with the way he's pointing. Edited October 9, 2021 by Glen-i
Jonnas Posted October 10, 2021 Posted October 10, 2021 I still love that Piranha Plant is just chilling in the middle of the chaos, watering some Pikmin with a random watering can.
BowserBasher Posted October 10, 2021 Posted October 10, 2021 Villager just chasing a butterfly is nice too.
Julius Posted October 18, 2021 Author Posted October 18, 2021 A lovely - but lengthy - thank you letter from Good Vibes Gaming and friends to Sakurai: Always nice to see things like this. I know that there were countless others who worked on the game alongside Sakurai, but still, it's incredible to see what he's achieved across all of the Smash games, but Ultimate in particular. Recognition at The Game Awards and GDC in some form for what he's achieved with Smash would just feel right. Ultimate sets such a stupidly high bar that I honestly think that now his time is potentially done with Smash (at least as the main man), whoever takes the reins next might need to pivot pretty hard. They could take it back to a fairly barebones roster similar to Smash 64 / what we started with in Ultimate, but then maybe shift towards a 3D fighter akin to something like Virtua Fighter. Would not want to be the person potentially taking over Smash from Sakurai, that's for sure! 1
Helmsly Posted October 19, 2021 Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) Edited October 19, 2021 by Helmsly 1 1
Glen-i Posted October 19, 2021 Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Julius said: Ultimate sets such a stupidly high bar that I honestly think that now his time is potentially done with Smash (at least as the main man), whoever takes the reins next might need to pivot pretty hard. They could take it back to a fairly barebones roster similar to Smash 64 / what we started with in Ultimate, but then maybe shift towards a 3D fighter akin to something like Virtua Fighter. Would not want to be the person potentially taking over Smash from Sakurai, that's for sure! This suggestion of a 3D Smash reboot gets thrown about a lot. My question is why bother going that route? Smash continues to sell more and more with each iteration, so it's not like the customers are getting bored of the formula. If sales ever start declining, then it'd be time to think of how to shake things up. Now this is a bit anecdotal, but the 2D nature of the game, as well as the relatively simplified controls, help to give Smash a low skill floor. When I still held gaming sessions at a community centre, kids would gravitate towards Smash because of the concept. (Chances are, a kid these days would see Mario fighting Pikachu and think "Oh, I know those guys, I want in on that"). They only stick with it because the game is easy to learn. The 2D plane helps to ease people in and keep them engaged. Honestly, once they get over the initial hump that is learning how to recover with Up B, then they almost always find themselves engaged. Add a 3D movement element to it, and you run the risk of losing what makes Smash so accessible. The characters entice people in, but the easy to learn concept is what keeps newcomers interested. Edited October 19, 2021 by Glen-i 4 1
Julius Posted October 19, 2021 Author Posted October 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Glen-i said: This suggestion of a 3D Smash reboot gets thrown about a lot. My question is why bother going that route? Smash continues to sell more and more with each iteration, so it's not like the customers are getting bored of the formula. If sales ever start declining, then it'd be time to think of how to shake things up. Now this is a bit anecdotal, but the 2D nature of the game, as well as the relatively simplified controls, help to give Smash a low skill floor. When I still held gaming sessions at a community centre, kids would gravitate towards Smash because of the concept. (Chances are, a kid these days would see Mario fighting Pikachu and think "Oh, I know those guys, I want in on that"). They only stick with it because the game is easy to learn. The 2D plane helps to ease people in and keep them engaged. Honestly, once they get over the initial hump that is learning how to recover with Up B, then they almost always find themselves engaged. Add a 3D movement element to it, and you run the risk of losing what makes Smash so accessible. The characters entice people in, but the easy to learn concept is what keeps newcomers interested. Oh yeah, I totally agree with you when it comes to 2D making the game more accessible (I've seen how hard it is for a lot of people new to games to dive into modern 3D games firsthand, and it's always the second stick controlling the camera). To be clear, I was more throwing a suggestion out there of one of the ways they could pivot hard from Ultimate, and I do think jumping to 3D is the most obvious way to clearly delineate from earlier entries, even if it wouldn't be the most accessible. That being said, there are obviously many other ways to make it different. Lean really heavily into a story mode more like Subspace Emissary with a small roster, as well as introducing other new modes; updating or even redoing character movesets across the board; and changing palette swaps so that not only can you change costume colours, you can also change appearance based on the many looks each character has had. Or they could totally just port Ultimate with a Deluxe version to whatever their next console is, backwards compatibility or not It's funny because Smash could easily start with a stupidly small roster and be a GaaS title, but Nintendo won't want that, and honestly, I wouldn't want it to see it go that way either. Imagine paying piecemeal for skins, such as an Ocarina of Time skin for Link...
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