Glen-i Posted June 11, 2019 Posted June 11, 2019 If a Pokémon cannot be caught in Sword and Shield. You will NOT be able to transfer them from previous games using Pokémon Home. Devastating news for me... Why does Game Freak seem to hate people who collect Pokemon these days?
Ike Posted June 11, 2019 Posted June 11, 2019 That's really sucks. I caught when they said Dynamax replaces Mega Evolution, didn't think they would go that far.
Glen-i Posted June 11, 2019 Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Ike said: That's really sucks. I caught when they said Dynamax replaces Mega Evolution, didn't think they would go that far. I would put money on Let's GO! being a reason for this influence. As if I couldn't hate that game anymore. They tried to use the "Battle Balance" reasoning, but that's bull, because since Gen 6, they just restricted the Pokemon you could use in online battles. No, I guarantee this is due to stupid whiners complaining about how there's too many Pokémon. This has gone from a day 1 purchase to me considering skipping it, or at least waiting in the hope that Game Freak see sense and backtrack on this idiotic choice. What's the bloody point of futureproofing the Pokémon models if you're not gonna let people catch them all!? Man, I'm legit angry. EDIT: As expected, the Pokémon Twitter account is getting battered by complaints about this. And for the first time ever, I joined in. It's unacceptable, and this needs to be heard. Edited June 11, 2019 by Glen-i
Ike Posted June 11, 2019 Posted June 11, 2019 They said they don't want to keep fans waiting so it's probably the people moaning about it not being out like a year ago. You just know they're going to hold the rest back until Sword 2/Shield 2. I will amit that not having to catch over 800 is a bit of relief, but obvisouly that means someone's favourite 'Mon migh tnot make the cut. This also possibly restricts competivitive battles as well depending on who makes the cut.
Julius Posted June 11, 2019 Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Glen-i said: If a Pokémon cannot be caught in Sword and Shield. You will NOT be able to transfer them from previous games using Pokémon Home. Devastating news for me... Why does Game Freak seem to hate people who collect Pokemon these days? On a serious note, though, what the flying Squirtle do they think they're doing? What the hell is the point in Home if you can't transfer all of your Pokémon to the latest game? Such a strange decision. And yet I'm not at all surprised, and I imagine I'm not the only one? "One step forward, two steps back" might as well be Game Freak's mantra at this point why is it that every time we head into a new generation, it always feels like a trade-off between new features and QoL features present in prior games? Edited June 11, 2019 by Julius
Sméagol Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Why this will be the best Pokémon game: I'll leave you to wonder whether I mean the giant Wooloo or sexy Nessa. ♥ The anwser is of course both. And Sofia.
Hero-of-Time Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Julius said: On a serious note, though, what the flying Squirtle do they think they're doing? What the hell is the point in Home if you can't transfer all of your Pokémon to the latest game? Such a strange decision. And yet I'm not at all surprised, and I imagine I'm not the only one? "One step forward, two steps back" might as well be Game Freak's mantra at this point why is it that every time we head into a new generation, it always feels like a trade-off between new features and QoL features present in prior games? I'm honestly not surprised. How many Pokemon are there now? Around 800? Game Freak backed themselves into a corner when they kept allowing players to keep bringing their Pokemon over, as well as adding another 80-100 with every new generation. It's an unsustainable model. Having to balance and update all of these Pokemon, as well as creating new ones, while also finally having to develop for a HD machine is going to push Game Freak to their limit. They aren't the biggest developer in the world and it comes as no surprise that something has got to give. The social media reaction from a lot of the fan base is quite frankly embarrassing. It's been hilarious to watch because on one hand you have Nintendo fans kicking off because Animal Crossing has been delayed and then these same people are kicking off about Pokemon and screaming that they delay the game so the missing Pokemon can be put in. Developers really can't win, can they?
Glen-i Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: I'm honestly not surprised. How many Pokemon are there now? Around 800? Game Freak backed themselves into a corner when they kept allowing players to keep bringing their Pokemon over, as well as adding another 80-100 with every new generation. It's an unsustainable model. Having to balance and update all of these Pokemon, as well as creating new ones, while also finally having to develop for a HD machine is going to push Game Freak to their limit. They aren't the biggest developer in the world and it comes as no surprise that something has got to give. The social media reaction from a lot of the fan base is quite frankly embarrassing. It's been hilarious to watch because on one hand you have Nintendo fans kicking off because Animal Crossing has been delayed and then these same people are kicking off about Pokemon and screaming that they delay the game so the missing Pokemon can be put in. Developers really can't win, can they? Then what is the bloody point of making sure that when they created the 3D models for every Pokémon, they were designed in a way that they were ready for HD consoles? A lot of the legwork was done!
Sméagol Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 I've already told you. It's not that simple. You can't just press a button "convert" and then expect it to be done. You are seriously underestimating the time it takes to put a character in a game. Me personaly, I don't care. I'm actually glad I don't have to catch 800 Pokémon. I also never understood the need to transfer your Pokémon between games. They've served their purpose in their own games.
Glen-i Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Just now, Sméagol said: I've already told you. It's not that simple. You can't just press a button "convert" and then expect it to be done. You are seriously underestimating the time it takes to put a character in a game. Me personaly, I don't care. I'm actually glad I don't have to catch 800 Pokémon. I also never understood the need to transfer your Pokémon between games. They've served their purpose in their own games. Nope, that's not gonna fly. They were totally ready for the jump. I'll take a quote from ResetEra. Because it puts it across quite clearly. Quote The models, the animations, all of that is already done and has been done for years. It's also not uncommon for old Pokemon to not get updated movesets or abilities in a new gen, and picking what Pokemon get new attacks shouldn't be much of an ordeal anyways. Not every Pokemon needs to be in the wild area, certainly not Pokemon that aren't in the regional dex, but not only that those run animations are old, they are unused animations from Sun and Moon and they did them for every Gen 1-7 Pokemon. They have no excuse, they simply don't care. And even if the issue was workload that is entirely Game Freak's fault for refusing to grow. If they want to do 5+ HD games at once they can not continue to be a 150~200 person studio. I watched that Treehouse segment, and not a single one of the older Pokémon had a new animation. They literally did just transfer the files over. They did that for Sun and Moon. They did it for Let's GO. (Apart from Pikachu and Eevee, obviously) It worked because they planned ahead for it! Online tournaments have restricted the Pokémon that can be used to only those in the latest region's Pokédex. So they already had a workaround for any "balance issues"
Hero-of-Time Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sméagol said: Me personaly, I don't care. I'm actually glad I don't have to catch 800 Pokémon. I also never understood the need to transfer your Pokémon between games. They've served their purpose in their own games. Same. It's a big reason why I enjoyed Let's Go. Going back to basics and just having a set amount to catch felt great and actually obtainable. Honestly, i'd be happy if they kept wiping the slate clean with every generation. It would also be a lot less hassle from a development stand point because then you wouldn't have to worry about balancing the past generation every time a new game arrived.
Glen-i Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 Just now, Hero-of-Time said: Same. It's a big reason why I enjoyed Let's Go. Going back to basics and just having a set amount to catch felt great and actually obtainable. Honestly, i'd be happy if they kept wiping the slate clean with every generation. It would also be a lot less hassle from a development stand point because then you wouldn't have to worry about balancing the past generation every time a new game arrived. Why do I even bother?
Mandalore Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 They've never been that concerned with balance issues in the past. I'm not that bothered myself, but I can see why a lot of fans are pissed off. It's one of the key features of the main series games. I suppose this new Home app will act as the ultimate Pokédex for the player now?
Sméagol Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Glen-i said: Why do I even bother? Because you like being wrong? You don't listen. You don't press a convert button and be done. You don't. They have a starting point, which they need to optimize for the new game, depending on technical and stylistic factors, then add any new features, then test this, and they'd have to do this 800 times. Then balancing. And sure they'll most likely have shortcuts.. But in software, if you add something, you test it. Then fix if anything brakes. There's no way around this.
Hero-of-Time Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Mandalore said: They've never been that concerned with balance issues in the past. I'm not that bothered myself, but I can see why a lot of fans are pissed off. It's one of the key features of the main series games. I suppose this new Home app will act as the ultimate Pokédex for the player now? Very true but games change as generations go on. I didn't care for BOTW which was a BIG change for the Zelda series but I didn't go on social media and demand that the developers change the game back to the way I would like. I said my piece on here and accepted that the changes weren't for me. If these changes in Pokemon stick and fans aren't happy with it, then simply don't buy the game, which may be what actually happens.
Dufniall Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Glen-i said: Then what is the bloody point of making sure that when they created the 3D models for every Pokémon, they were designed in a way that they were ready for HD consoles? A lot of the legwork was done! So they can be put in Pokémon GO. I also wouldn't mind if a Pokémon main game would only hold a limited number of 'Mon if that would come to the benefit of the story, the overworld and general look of the game. As far as I'm concerned make 2 games: a story-driven RPG with a selection of Pokémon that introduces the new generation, and a stand alone Stadium game for competitive battling including all Pokémon and full Home integration, but lacking a big overworld/RPG element.
Scratch Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 It's not the end of the world to me, but I am a little disappointed that not all Pokemon will be in SwSh. Although it kind of makes sense considering how many Pokemon there are now. I wonder if the backlash will be enough to make them add the missing Pokemon at some point? It worked for changing Sonic's design in the new movie. xD On the bright side I'm pretty sure I saw someone playing Pokemon SwSh with a Pro Controller, although no-one's mentioned it anywhere, which means either I'm the only one who cares about Pro Controller compatibility, or everyone just assumed it would have it, or I'm the only one that's noticed, or the person I saw with a Pro Controller was playing something else and just happened to be on screen when they were talking about SwSh. xD
Ronnie Posted June 12, 2019 Posted June 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sckewi said: I wonder if the backlash will be enough to make them add the missing Pokemon at some point? It worked for changing Sonic's design in the new movie. I really hope not. Slippery slope if companies start listening to gamers with their pitchforks demanding changes.
Hero-of-Time Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 Famitsu have confirmed that both Z-Moves and Mega Evolutions won't be returning in this game. I can't say I'm really fussed about Z-Moves being dropped. I don't think I even used the Z-Moves mechanic during my time with Pokemon Moon and Pokemon Ultra Move. Shame about the Mega Evolutions though. There were some pretty cool designs that came out of that.
Hero-of-Time Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 Masuda gave an interview to US Gamer above the changes being made in regards to carrying Pokemon over from game to game. Quote "There are a couple of different parts to the thinking behind it, but really the biggest reason for it is just the sheer number of Pokemon. We already have well over 800 Pokemon species, and there's going to be more added in these games. And now that they're on the Nintendo Switch, we're creating it with much higher fidelity with higher quality animations. But even more than that, it's coming down to the battle system. We're making sure we can keep everything balanced and give all the Pokemon that appear in the games a chance to shine." "We knew at some point we weren't going to be able to indefinitely keep supporting all of the Pokemon, and we just found that Sword and Shield would probably be a good point to go back and reevaluate what would be the best selection of Pokemon that appeal to the widest audience while keeping into consideration the balance of the battle system. It isn't just going to be all-new Pokemon in the Galar region Pokedex; there's still going to be a lot of favorites that fans will be able to bring over that they've adventured with previously. But yeah, it was pretty much just balancing and getting this optimal selection of Pokemon for the adventure we wanted to provide." So pretty much what I said it was. Too many Pokemon, balancing and now working in HD.
Julius Posted June 13, 2019 Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) Yeah, I'm 100% with @Glen-i on this. Let's be honest: for anyone who has used Bank/transferred Pokémon forward at any point in the past, and had wanted to do so this time around, it sucks that you won't be able to transfer all of your Pokémon to Sword and Shield because Game Freak are, to put it frankly, completely overwhelmed by the work that they're carrying out for these games. Plus, if I'm not mistaken (and I haven't seen anyone mention this): wouldn't this leave the Pokémon which can't be transferred to Sword/Shield in limbo in Home? If it's going to work at all like Bank (and I don't know why it wouldn't), then it'll be an annual subscription service with a cool-down period, in the event that you don't renew your subscription, to allow you to renew (I believe that's how it worked on 3DS? Let me know if that's wrong — been a while since I've used Bank, to be honest) and retrieve those Pokémon. However, if like the diagram above illustrates you can only move Pokémon freely between Home and Sword/Shield, then surely Pokémon unable to be transferred to those games will become practically useless, as they can't be transferred back to previous games (or accessed in any way whatsoever)? @Sméagol, while I know where you're coming from, I think you're missing the bigger point that @Glen-i has been making by getting stuck on the necessary implications of software (game) development. @Glen-i is referring to a time prior to X/Y: if I recall correctly, Pokédex 3D Pro for 3DS was Creatures' attempt to future proof Pokémon models for HD development; this application included HD models for the first five generations of Pokémon (so 649, unless any were missing?) which are still used to this day, and they have been used in Pokémon GO and every mainline game since. I feel like we've talked with @Serebii about this in the past, and he said that the only real difference between the 3D Pro models and how they're utilised in GO/the mainline series is the type of shader applied to the model. Of course these models need to be tested when moving onto a new project, but I can't help but find it kind of patronising that you wrote off @Glen-i's perfectly valid point about the publicly disclosed efforts made by Creatures and Game Freak to future proof high definition 3D Pokémon models by suggesting that he thought that all they have to do is highlight some files and convert them. We're all video game fans here, many here much longer than me, but I think we can all appreciate - and are fully aware - that the development process isn't that simple. But anyway, back to my actual point: I don't think that the problem here lies solely with Game Freak itself, but almost entirely with The Pokémon Company. Can I just remind those here that Pokémon is currently the most valuable media franchise, and has been for a long while? With the resources that they have at their disposal, there's honestly no reason for them to be nearly as unambitious as they are. I find it somewhat ludicrous that Game Freak, of all people involved with Pokémon, have to be the ones to publicly spout off excuses, because the way I see it, it's very simple: they aren't provided with enough resources or time to push the envelope, and what we're left with are half baked, surface level efforts at best. There's no reason that Game Freak shouldn't just be working on certain facets of these games at this point, such as monster and character designs, world design, etc. Why can't a much larger and more able studio in the JRPG space — for crying out loud, get someone like Square Enix, who still seem to give enough of a damn: Dragon Quest XI is a 10, and Final Fantasy VII Remake looks incredible; hell, even MonolithSoft would do! — work alongside them to help them realise what I imagine start out as passionate and lofty ambitions, but are snuffed out by the realism of their spreadsheets taking complete precedence? I'm glad that we're seeing backlash. This is a silly thing which shouldn't be happening in the first place, and it's brought plenty of other low effort practices of theirs from the last few years back into the limelight. PSS in Gen VI was great, then it was taken away. Primal and Mega Evolutions were an interesting concept. Taken away. Z-Moves too. Bye bye. Regional variant Pokémon. Au revoir. Pokémon contests, Pokémon following you (why isn't that something that we can expect in every game?), the National Dex, Ultra Beasts, Training, Poké Pelago...the list goes on and on. And you know that Dynamaxing will be gone by the time next generation rolls around, too. The Wilds, in any other franchise, would be taken as a hint that next generation will be entirely open world — so I guess that means that's something we'll probably never see again. In case you can't tell, I'm getting tired of giving them a pass just because it's Pokémon. How is it that I'm even excited by being able to control a camera, considering that that's been a mainstay in gaming for over two decades at this point? If this were any other franchise, it would not only be dead and buried, but completely torn apart. It just doesn't sit right with me. I'd hope they learn their lessons this time around, but who am I kidding? We've been here before, and no doubt we'll be here again. Edited June 13, 2019 by Julius 5 2
Glen-i Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 You know what? @Julius puts my point across much clearer than I did. I get that things have to be cut back, especially when you're a development group as small as Game Freak. I normally get annoyed by stuff getting cut in a new Pokémon game, but I can mostly look past it, because the main point of the game was still intact, collecting and battling Pokémon. But with some Pokémon being cut, collecting them all is no longer possible. That's half of the selling point gone. You ever wonder why Ruby and Sapphire were nowhere near as successful as the previous games? Because not being able to transfer Pokémon was probably the main reason. Creatures took great pains to model all 649 (Julius was right about that, but it's worth noting that some Pokémon have multiple forms, like Unown and Kyurem. As well as Pokémon with tweaked models due to gender differences, like Cacturne, so that's definitely near the 800-ish mark) Pokémon, ready for HD consoles, only to trip at the first hurdle due to not enough manpower. Pokémon Company needs to pump some money into Game Freak so they can outsource to a company that can handle something like world design, so they can focus on other stuff. 13 hours ago, Julius said: Plus, if I'm not mistaken (and I haven't seen anyone mention this): wouldn't this leave the Pokémon which can't be transferred to Sword/Shield in limbo in Home? If it's going to work at all like Bank (and I don't know why it wouldn't), then it'll be an annual subscription service with a cool-down period, in the event that you don't renew your subscription, to allow you to renew (I believe that's how it worked on 3DS? Let me know if that's wrong — been a while since I've used Bank, to be honest) and retrieve those Pokémon. However, if like the diagram above illustrates you can only move Pokémon freely between Home and Sword/Shield, then surely Pokémon unable to be transferred to those games will become practically useless, as they can't be transferred back to previous games (or accessed in any way whatsoever)? Oh man, I completely forgot about that one-way trip! Seeing as I don't use Bank for the storage and only when I need to transfer stuff, I'm going to have to be careful about which Pokémon I send to Home, lest they be trapped there. 1 1
Dcubed Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) This game needed another year in the oven. I knew Game Freak were being stretched way too thin. Something had to give and it's a damn shame that it was Sword/Shield itself that bore the brunt of it. Hilarious to think that Pokemon Home is literally completely useless now; that was clearly never the original plan. And dynamaxing is blatantly a corner cutting exercise, since it's just the existing models being enlarged; super easy thing to add in comparison to Mega Evolution. Thanks for wasting everyone's time Let's Go! Edited June 14, 2019 by Dcubed
Hero-of-Time Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 14 hours ago, Julius said: In case you can't tell, I'm getting tired of giving them a pass just because it's Pokémon. How is it that I'm even excited by being able to control a camera, considering that that's been a mainstay in gaming for over two decades at this point? If this were any other franchise, it would not only be dead and buried, but completely torn apart. It just doesn't sit right with me. I'd hope they learn their lessons this time around, but who am I kidding? We've been here before, and no doubt we'll be here again. Welcome to how many of us on here and elsewhere have felt for a LONG time. The franchise has been stale for ages now but every time it got brought up there was always some excuse for it. People defended the IP and GF purely because of the love of the franchise and the years they had spent with it. Fast forward to now and the fan base is finally admitting what many have been saying for years.The franchise has been given a pass for a long time purely because of what it is. GF have never really had to mix up the formula because the thing sells by the bucket loads. It will be interesting to see how well this one does. Will those kicking off about the changes actually put their money where their mouth is and not buy the game? Probably not. We seen this scenario with the Let's Go games where fans were adamant that they were going to buy it or play it but surprise surprise many of them did. Until the sales start to dwindle ( they are never going to fall off a cliff because of the cross media promotion that the franchise has ) then GF are pretty much free to do what they want with it, for better or worse. 1
Nicktendo Posted June 14, 2019 Posted June 14, 2019 When I was watching this in the Direct my only though was "huh, so Just Dance isn't the only Wii game releasing in 2019" Game looks shoddy. I get that it's their first game in full 3D, but I was (probably foolishly) expecting more. Let's go was fine, and looked fairly decent. This looks pretty bad and looks like it runs even worse. Saying that, I'll probably still pick it up because it's 3D Pokemon and I'm part of the problem.
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