Eenuh Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 The main thing that concerns me about the Leave campaign is that they haven't actually said what their plans are, what they will do or what will happen... You're stepping into the great unknown and hoping something good will be on the other side. One thing that I want to know for example, is how travel will be affected. Will I still be able to go visit my family with my Belgian ID card? Will my family still be able to easily visit me without needing visas or something? If there are changes, then I imagine this will increase the waiting times for security, meaning traveling will take even longer than it does now.
bob Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 In. No question. There are pros and cons for both and I'm hating the slander and the desperate, insulting tactics from both sides to prove their opinion is better; but I don't think it's close to what kind of world I feel better in. Even regarding Blades points, all reasonable, but FREE TRADE AND MOVEMENT is a big aspect of the EU and it's staggering;y naive to think we'd have the same trade deals as we do now, we simply won't. Why would we be given the best benefit but have to pay nothing into the system? Surely even the most hardcore OUT-er must see that? As for superstate and lack of democracy, this is obviously a terrible idea, and the grossest aspect of it all, reform is needed, but it's not quite as simple as that either, they are elected by their people we and the people of Europe elect, so it's one removed, don't we want our elected officials to elect them? Not saying it's ideal but the way people talk about it is so misleading. Also, people don't like the idea of these faceless people imposing our laws, but do people actually object to the laws themselves? I mean what actually is wrong with them? How much disgust is there to these laws or is it use "principal"? And for bailing out other countries... Again, a tricky proposition. But it's all proportionate, it's not like we don't get back the value in our membership fee, but aside from that. What is wrong with helping poor countries out? In the same way I want to look after the poor people in my country, I don't see a problem with helping out the poorest in Europe. Aside from just wanting as many people to lead the healthiest and best lives possible and if we can help we should, if you want to be all selfish about it, the stronger, healthier these countries are, the less they'll want to move to another country to work and get money. Keeping them down on their ground is only going to make their people more desperate to leave. (I feel the same about people reluctance to help the poor and desperate in this country, even if you hate them, them being healthier and less desperate means less crime and less imposing on the state/community) As for reform, of course it's possible. If we stay in. We come out, we've lost that chance for good. And in this connected world we are isolating ourselves; will US and China be as eager to give as good a deal to us with a smaller econmy, than the bumper deals they'll be willing to give the EU? I guess ultimately this last point is that I genuinely think we need to come together more and more. We;be moved from our caves, tribes, villages, towns, cities and nations. The bigger and more communal we are, the safer and better the world is. That's what I want to live in. Not us and them! Great post. Agree with pretty much all of it. But the most amazing thing was how few typos there were in it! As I read it, I couldn't believe it was a Dazzybee post! We;be moved from our caves, tribes, villages, towns, cities and nations. Dang. So close.
Zell Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 I have voted Remain and my housemate has voted Leave. We've had a fair few discussions around it and he nearly swayed me at one point, but I think what has made me vote Remain is the political and economic uncertainty of what leaving the EU will cause in the short to medium term. I've detached myself from the media aspect of the referendum as I know that the debates will have devolved to fear-mongering and shit-slinging around immigration, terrorists, economic crises and all the usual political scare tactics. I think the worst thing about this referendum is that 95% of the electorate are just not knowledgeable enough around the EU to make a properly informed decision about UK's status.
Beast Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Out. Personally, I think we're screwed either way but @Blade actually posted my points of why I wanted out anyway Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
Nuntendo Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 The EU is undemocratic and unaccountable. I don't remember having a choice of who is on the EU council of the other 27 member states. I always hear this argument that the EU is undemocratic. I even heard Lord Nigel Lawson say this on Question Time... Is anything wrong with this picture? Clue: The House of Lords, the second house of the British Parliament, is not democratic. And neither is the Head of State, the Monarch, by the way. So, on what basis do we criticise the European Union for being undemocratic? Because we cant vote on the head of governments for other member states? Come on!
Mr-Paul Posted June 15, 2016 Author Posted June 15, 2016 I really hope this board reflects the voting public. Unfortunately it doesn't Too many older people who don't want to be part of a world community and are willing to ruin our generation's future because of xenophobia and ignorance.
bob Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Just check the current odds, that's what I do. Bookies never lie.
somme Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 It does seem a bit unfair that really old people, who will die soon, are choosing the future of a country (countries) they will no longer be a part of.
bob Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) That's assuming that they are voting purely for themselves. If someone voted to remain because they were concerned about the poorer members of society, you wouldn't care how old they were. If an old person votes leave, they may be thinking about future generations and how they will be affected in the future. Edit: Man, that didn't come out as good as I had it in my head... Basically everyone has the right to vote, whether it be for selfish reasons, or not. Edited June 15, 2016 by 130131301364
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 It does seem a bit unfair that really old people, who will die soon, are choosing the future of a country (countries) they will no longer be a part of. Young people will die at any given time so that isn't fair.
Mr-Paul Posted June 15, 2016 Author Posted June 15, 2016 It's a fair point, we are in a democracy where everyone should use their vote. It's just so frustrating when there's so many of them that are so out of touch and believe such blatant lies
Glen-i Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 I really hope this board reflects the voting public. You and me both. Probably won't though. Although, I voted for "Shake it all about" Damn you, @Mr\-Paul! How did you know I couldn't resist a Hokey-Kokey? I will vote for In though, provided there isn't a similar option on the day.
Cube Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 I really hope this board reflects the voting public. I think most of us are in the "younger" and "more educated" demographic, so we're more likely to vote "In".
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Could die? Makes it sound like you have plans. Could...lol (btw I would typically 'thank' this but can't, is there some sort of Thanks limit?)
peterl0 Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 I believe there is a limit, yes. Not sure what it is though.
Sméagol Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 I would miss you guys! Also I don't want to pay import taxes from Amazon.co.uk.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 If it wasn't for being in the EU, I most likely wouldn't have met my Norwegian partner here and she has paid a butt tonne of excess fees for her Masters and tax. I'm not going to use my own personal situation as an excuse to stay in, but migrants like my gf have contributed so much to society on terms of the economy than a standard British citizen. The immigration excuses (I'm gonna be frank) is straight BS. I'm here because the British Empire ruled my parents country by force and thus, Britain was regarded as THE place for middle-higher classes within the Empire to be educated and live too. The world is getting closer together, British people are enjoying the prospects of emigration whilst stereotypically being the migrant less willing to learn the host countries language. Free (legal) movement of people should be a human right.
bob Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 Saw this doing the rounds on Facebook: A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out. Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU: • Governor of the Bank of England • International Monetary Fund • Institute for Fiscal Studies • Confederation of British Industry • Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU • President of the United States of America • Eight former US Treasury Secretaries • President of China • Prime Minister of India • Prime Minister of Canada • Prime Minister of Australia • Prime Minister of Japan • Prime Minister of New Zealand • The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc. • Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations • All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties) • Virtually all reputable and recognised economists • The Prime Minister of the UK • The leader of the Labour Party • The Leader of the Liberal Democrats • The Leader of the Green Party • The Leader of the Scottish National Party • The leader of Plaid Cymru • Leader of Sinn Fein • Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly • The Secretary General of the TUC • Unison • National Union of Students • National Union of Farmers • Stephen Hawking • Chief Executive of the NHS • 300 of the most prominent international historians • Director of Europol • David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation • Former Directors of GCHQ • Secretary General of Nato • Church of England • Church in Scotland • Church in Wales • Friends of the Earth • Greenpeace • Director General of the World Trade Organisation • WWF • World Bank • OECD Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU: • Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave • A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick • The guy who was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system • Leader of UKIP • BNP • Britain First • Donald Trump • Keith Chegwin • David Icke So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple. And if you are unsure about leaving, don't. I think you can also add Joey Essex to that second list too.
Nuntendo Posted June 15, 2016 Posted June 15, 2016 If it wasn't for being in the EU, I most likely wouldn't have met my Norwegian partner here I love the Norwegian language and accent. Its so sing songy and just so cool :awesome: I have only been there once - was the coldest experience of my life!
Nicktendo Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 After living, studying and working in the EU for almost 3 years I'm for remaining of course. I'm still yet to hear a reason for leaving which either doesn't spout "economic" nonsense straight from the pages of The Sun, or isn't tinged with racism. One thing that's really annoyed me about this debate is the language being used. Why is it that a European living in the UK is an 'immigrant' and a Brit living in Europe an 'Ex Pat?'
Nuntendo Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 One thing that's really annoyed me about this debate is the language being used. Why is it that a European living in the UK is an 'immigrant' and a Brit living in Europe an 'Ex Pat?' Because the British are racially superior! And the people who come and live here are poor criminals whereas the British who leave are lovely lovely middle class retirees. No one will say it but thats what many here believe. My grandma complained, a while ago, that so many immigrants come to Britain and they dont even speak our language! Thats very selfish and stupid of them! Then my mother pointed out that my grandma used to live in Iran and has never spoken Iranian in her life. The subject was changed soon after. :p
Nicktendo Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 Because the British are racially superior! And the people who come and live here are poor criminals whereas the British who leave are lovely lovely middle class retirees. No one will say it but thats what many here believe. My grandma complained, a while ago, that so many immigrants come to Britain and they dont even speak our language! Thats very selfish and stupid of them! Then my mother pointed out that my grandma used to live in Iran and has never spoken Iranian in her life. The subject was changed soon after. :p It really is some kind of superiority complex and it baffles me because there is almost nothing 'better' about Britain than any other European country, especially the food
Nuntendo Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 It really is some kind of superiority complex and it baffles me because there is almost nothing 'better' about Britain than any other European country, especially the food haha :p I see you are living in St Petersberg. Are you Russian, may I ask?
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