Let's talk about this place.

[Sheikah]

@Rummy when have I ever mentioned banning anyone? I haven't. And although I can be quick to react, I'm pretty sure I never instigate, which is worse, far worse. As for denial, I didn't mean thst there was a problem, or even that I offered a solution, but you did deny what I said in my earlier post. Out right. Even though many people agree, even one of your fellow mods as you know, tske it in board, watch the pattern if it continues.

 

As for a poll. Can if you want, feels a little childish but go for it. Want mske a difference though, I'd be pretty co fudent there'd be many people who agree, but I wouldn't change my mind either way. The "majority" have a history of thinking horrific things throughout history, doesn't make the minorty wrong.

 

I don't mean this in a harsh way but I genuinely do think you need to take a step back and take a look at your own behaviour before calling for actions to be taken against others. Regarding the bolded part, above...particularly over the past few weeks I have, on more than one occasion, seen you instigate arguments. And before you disagree on this, instigating an argument is, for all intents and purposes, creating an argument where there was none. Where an opinion about something has been posted, you can sometimes present a hostile response and make an argument out of it as opposed to having a reasonable debate. In terms of dealing with negativity towards Nintendo you can come across as difficult and bad at dealing with other viewpoints, and in some cases insulting when addressing the particular holder of that view. I remember an instance recently with regards to drahkon's opinion of the gamepad that I thought demonstrated these points pretty well.

 

There is also some hypocrisy (which I think drahkon touched on earlier) in that you often enter the other consoles board to complain about something or other to do with the PS4 (I would estimate that most of your posts there are negative), but then are seemingly repulsed by people being often critical in the Nintendo boards. You can't have it both ways.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Sheikah

[Ashley]

Sorry, another point I want to address.

 

Some people are saying "those that are positive about Nintendo don't go in to the Other Consoles board and needless complain there" as if it somehow 'proves' that pro-Nintendo people are 'better'.

 

Of course they're not going to. At the end of the day this is a Nintendo forum and that's what brought us here. A lot of us have been here for many years and started coming here when Nintendo had a different approach and outlook. Like it or not, Nintendo's focus and business approach has changed a lot in the last decade and it has left a number of people feeling disappointed. They are still here because by and large they still enjoy coming to this place (discounting Stockholm Syndromers). I genuinely believe a lot of them want Nintendo to be making different decisions because they feel it will make Nintendo a better company.

 

The majority of people came here for Nintendo and discuss other consoles, but they all share an interest in Nintendo. Interest does not have to mean agreement with what they do. You can be interested in Nintendo and hate them (for what it's worth I think few people do hate Nintendo, they just disagree with a lot of their recent decisions and output).

 

Whereas if you came here to discuss Nintendo and just chose to go into the Destiny thread to say it looks like a bland shooter (and just that alone, without any other arguments), that would be needlessly trying to cause strife. You may play more Xbox One now, but coming into the Star Fox Zero thread and saying it doesn't look to be a patch on the SNES game isn't necessarily the same as you are comparing it to past experiences and a desire to see better.

 

To use a weird analogy, think of the Tory backbenchers. They joined the party because they believe the party most closely aligns their personal political views. Some are opposed to David Cameron's opinions on stuff and thus fight against it. Doesn't mean they're no longer Tory, just means they disagree with the current direction. Yes they may agree with the opinions of other parties when it comes to certain things, but doesn't mean they are going to give up their belief in the Tory party. They may sit around and have passionate disagreement about types of wine (I'm being ridiculous to make a point here) but can get along with it, but sometimes publicly come to heads about political issues. That's because they signed up for political reasons and to have those kind of political debates. They may also happen to like wine and chat about it too socially.

 

And on that note before now people in the past seem to be under the impression they can dictate who engages in a topic. No. You can't. Providing someone is sticking on topic and relaying a valid view (i.e. it's not just "you're wrong and stupid" but one argued clearly and rationally) then they are welcome here.

[Goafer]

Ignoring the poor attempt at impartiality in your post, I take issue with this part in particular. I wasn't falling back on anything. I posted a graphic that showed off the Wii U's best looking games. Happenstance commented that they all looked alike and there was no variety. I then commented on the supposed "variety" of the rest of the industry, by way of comparison. The only thing that gets proven wrong time and time again is the never-ending suggestions from the majority that the Wii U only has platformers.

 

The PS4 lacking variety comments were coming thick and fast long before that incident. Maybe not just from you, but I definitely noticed it almost becoming a meme before that whole debacle.

 

And assuming I was talking about you is exactly the overly defensive attitude that I take issue with from the pro Nintendo camp. If it was aimed squarely at you, I would have said so, but it wasnt. It was aimed at a few people.

 

And as for my poor attempt at impartiality, at least it was an attempt. That's more than I can say for quite a few people here.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Goafer

[Zechs Merquise]

After reading all this, I'm not going to start responding to individual points, but I will just give my general feelings.

 

I love Nintendo, I came here to discuss Nintendo. However, despite my love for them, I don't believe they're perfect or that they shouldn't be criticised. What I, and clearly many others get so tired of is the constant identical criticism from the same small bunch derailing every single thread.

 

What's more - and this is the bit that pisses me off, it seems these people don't even want to play Nintendo games. They don't like the look of the game, they wouldn't purchase it, but they are in the threads just going on and on and on about how they don't like it, how it isn't for them and then snapping and talking down to anyone who does like it.

 

People say there are no arguments over on the 'other consoles' board. Well that's maybe because most people who don't want to play the games on other consoles don't go there to discuss how they don't want to play the games.

 

You see, I never wanted to play the Order 1886, I always thought it looked sketchy and bit shit from day one. Everything from the colour palette to the lack of true gameplay bothered me. I remember saying to @kav82 it was going to be shit, despite plenty of hype for it. But I haven't felt the need to go into the thread on the game and discuss it. Because I don't want it and have no interest in it. I also have no interest belittling those who are enjoying it or trying to convince them they shouldn't be enjoying it.

 

However the same never appears to be true for Nintendo releases. There's always people who seem far happier on their PS4 telling people that they shouldn't be enjoying their Wii U. Often this borders on condescending and if anyone sticks up for Nintendo or has an opposing view it's responded too with those pathetic reaction GIFs or a snarky one liner - the the kind which would get @Glen\-i - the bullying of @Serebii is ridiculous. It's got to the point that people can openly attack him, mock his job his hobbies and be down right awful to him and it is tolerated. It is almost like t is accepted for him to be a target of abuse.

 

People may find him annoying, or dislike the tone of his posts, but does that give people the right to attack him? I don't believe so. It also seems to me that those who are positive get far more warnings than the negative bunch.

 

This has led to a huge downward spiral in the numbers that seem to be posting. So many positive Nintendo fans who used to post have all been driven away. People who used to play on the Wii have slowly stopped posting and some people in this thread have even admitted to not wanting to post.

 

I still play Nintendo games, I like some of them, I don't like others. The ones I want to buy, I spend time discussing, those I don't want to buy I may say why I don't like them, but often I don't even post in the thread about them. I don't like Amiibo, but don't feel the need to rip up every thread about them. I will never play that Animal Crossing board game - so I don't post in the thread. I posted once about it not being the Animal Crossing game people wanted - and I'll leave it at that.

 

The same can't be said for a certain group who have to keep chirping on repeating the same points and attacking anyone showing the slightest positivity or hype toward any Nintendo title.

 

Finally, I know what these people will say - they love Nintendo and are just frustrated and want Nintendo to change. They will say that they are passionate and that they are just expressing their opinion. Well that's not really going to wash with me. Few people loved COD as much as me. On the Wii I had every online COD game and played them for probably over a thousand hours. Now, I don't play COD any more and I didn't enjoy the last few games and really didn't like the look of AW and think BO3 looks even worse. Yet despite my love for what the series once was, I don't ruin every COD thread with hate for what the series is now, I just move on and play other games. I don't see why others can't do the same thing - if you no longer like Nintendo, if they don't do it for you, if you have a PS4 and love it, then cool, I'm happy for you. Just don't keep coming to the Nintendo threads to endlessly post the same condescending rubbish about games you don't want to play!

[Nicktendo]

After reading all this, I'm not going to start responding to individual points, but I will just give my general feelings.

 

I love Nintendo, I came here to discuss Nintendo. However, despite my love for them, I don't believe they're perfect or that they shouldn't be criticised. What I, and clearly many others get so tired of is the constant identical criticism from the same small bunch derailing every single thread.

 

What's more - and this is the bit that pisses me off, it seems these people don't even want to play Nintendo games. They don't like the look of the game, they wouldn't purchase it, but they are in the threads just going on and on and on about how they don't like it, how it isn't for them and then snapping and talking down to anyone who does like it.

 

People say there are no arguments over on the 'other consoles' board. Well that's maybe because most people who don't want to play the games on other consoles don't go there to discuss how they don't want to play the games.

 

You see, I never wanted to play the Order 1886, I always thought it looked sketchy and bit shit from day one. Everything from the colour palette to the lack of true gameplay bothered me. I remember saying to @kav82 it was going to be shit, despite plenty of hype for it. But I haven't felt the need to go into the thread on the game and discuss it. Because I don't want it and have no interest in it. I also have no interest belittling those who are enjoying it or trying to convince them they shouldn't be enjoying it.

 

However the same never appears to be true for Nintendo releases. There's always people who seem far happier on their PS4 telling people that they shouldn't be enjoying their Wii U. Often this borders on condescending and if anyone sticks up for Nintendo or has an opposing view it's responded too with those pathetic reaction GIFs or a snarky one liner - the the kind which would get @Glen\-i - the bullying of @Serebii is ridiculous. It's got to the point that people can openly attack him, mock his job his hobbies and be down right awful to him and it is tolerated. It is almost like t is accepted for him to be a target of abuse.

 

People may find him annoying, or dislike the tone of his posts, but does that give people the right to attack him? I don't believe so. It also seems to me that those who are positive get far more warnings than the negative bunch.

 

This has led to a huge downward spiral in the numbers that seem to be posting. So many positive Nintendo fans who used to post have all been driven away. People who used to play on the Wii have slowly stopped posting and some people in this thread have even admitted to not wanting to post.

 

I still play Nintendo games, I like some of them, I don't like others. The ones I want to buy, I spend time discussing, those I don't want to buy I may say why I don't like them, but often I don't even post in the thread about them. I don't like Amiibo, but don't feel the need to rip up every thread about them. I will never play that Animal Crossing board game - so I don't post in the thread. I posted once about it not being the Animal Crossing game people wanted - and I'll leave it at that.

 

The same can't be said for a certain group who have to keep chirping on repeating the same points and attacking anyone showing the slightest positivity or hype toward any Nintendo title.

 

Finally, I know what these people will say - they love Nintendo and are just frustrated and want Nintendo to change. They will say that they are passionate and that they are just expressing their opinion. Well that's not really going to wash with me. Few people loved COD as much as me. On the Wii I had every online COD game and played them for probably over a thousand hours. Now, I don't play COD any more and I didn't enjoy the last few games and really didn't like the look of AW and think BO3 looks even worse. Yet despite my love for what the series once was, I don't ruin every COD thread with hate for what the series is now, I just move on and play other games. I don't see why others can't do the same thing - if you no longer like Nintendo, if they don't do it for you, if you have a PS4 and love it, then cool, I'm happy for you. Just don't keep coming to the Nintendo threads to endlessly post the same condescending rubbish about games you don't want to play!

 

Sums up my thoughts exactly, and explains why I've only been lurking for the past year.

[Hero-of-Time]

One thing that has been brought up a couple of times ( Zechs recent post has reminded me to question this ) is how people are saying that many have left the boards due to the negativity. While this may be true, what about the flip side of things?

 

Earlier this year, I felt the need to leave the boards for a month due to the constant defensive attitude from a select few that kept hindering any type of meaningful discussion. I also didn't care for the constant badgering of Wii by Ronnie that was going on, so I just left the place.

 

There's also the fact that many may have left simply because of life changes or even because Nintendo longer cater to what they are after in gaming.

 

I don't think it's as clear cut to say people have left because of the negativity, yes some may have, but I know others have left for the same reason I did and also for the other reasons I stated.

[Happenstance]

One thing that has been brought up a couple of times ( Zechs recent post has reminded me to question this ) is how people are saying that many have left the boards due to the negativity. While this may be true, what about the flip side of things?

 

Earlier this year, I felt the need to leave the boards for a month due to the constant defensive attitude from a select few that kept hindering any type of meaningful discussion. I also didn't care for the constant badgering of Wii by Ronnie that was going on, so I just left the place.

 

There's also the fact that many may have left simply because of life changes or even because Nintendo longer cater to what they are after in gaming.

 

I don't think it's as clear cut to say people have left because of the negativity, yes some may have, but I know others have left for the same reason I did and also for the other reasons I stated.

 

Yep, I've left before out of frustration over this place before.

[Hero-of-Time]

Yep, I've left before out of frustration over this place before.

 

Exactly. There are two sides to this.

[markderoos]

And both sides are bad in my opinion. If a select group, be it the overly defensive or the overly offensive make members wanna leave then it needs to be addressed at both.

That's why I think singling one side out as "worse than the other" has no effect. You need to address the style of discussing, not the side someone's on.

[Ronnie]

After reading all this, I'm not going to start responding to individual points, but I will just give my general feelings.

 

I love Nintendo, I came here to discuss Nintendo. However, despite my love for them, I don't believe they're perfect or that they shouldn't be criticised. What I, and clearly many others get so tired of is the constant identical criticism from the same small bunch derailing every single thread.

 

What's more - and this is the bit that pisses me off, it seems these people don't even want to play Nintendo games. They don't like the look of the game, they wouldn't purchase it, but they are in the threads just going on and on and on about how they don't like it, how it isn't for them and then snapping and talking down to anyone who does like it.

 

People say there are no arguments over on the 'other consoles' board. Well that's maybe because most people who don't want to play the games on other consoles don't go there to discuss how they don't want to play the games.

 

You see, I never wanted to play the Order 1886, I always thought it looked sketchy and bit shit from day one. Everything from the colour palette to the lack of true gameplay bothered me. I remember saying to @kav82 it was going to be shit, despite plenty of hype for it. But I haven't felt the need to go into the thread on the game and discuss it. Because I don't want it and have no interest in it. I also have no interest belittling those who are enjoying it or trying to convince them they shouldn't be enjoying it.

 

However the same never appears to be true for Nintendo releases. There's always people who seem far happier on their PS4 telling people that they shouldn't be enjoying their Wii U. Often this borders on condescending and if anyone sticks up for Nintendo or has an opposing view it's responded too with those pathetic reaction GIFs or a snarky one liner - the the kind which would get @Glen\-i - the bullying of @Serebii is ridiculous. It's got to the point that people can openly attack him, mock his job his hobbies and be down right awful to him and it is tolerated. It is almost like t is accepted for him to be a target of abuse.

 

People may find him annoying, or dislike the tone of his posts, but does that give people the right to attack him? I don't believe so. It also seems to me that those who are positive get far more warnings than the negative bunch.

 

This has led to a huge downward spiral in the numbers that seem to be posting. So many positive Nintendo fans who used to post have all been driven away. People who used to play on the Wii have slowly stopped posting and some people in this thread have even admitted to not wanting to post.

 

I still play Nintendo games, I like some of them, I don't like others. The ones I want to buy, I spend time discussing, those I don't want to buy I may say why I don't like them, but often I don't even post in the thread about them. I don't like Amiibo, but don't feel the need to rip up every thread about them. I will never play that Animal Crossing board game - so I don't post in the thread. I posted once about it not being the Animal Crossing game people wanted - and I'll leave it at that.

 

The same can't be said for a certain group who have to keep chirping on repeating the same points and attacking anyone showing the slightest positivity or hype toward any Nintendo title.

 

Finally, I know what these people will say - they love Nintendo and are just frustrated and want Nintendo to change. They will say that they are passionate and that they are just expressing their opinion. Well that's not really going to wash with me. Few people loved COD as much as me. On the Wii I had every online COD game and played them for probably over a thousand hours. Now, I don't play COD any more and I didn't enjoy the last few games and really didn't like the look of AW and think BO3 looks even worse. Yet despite my love for what the series once was, I don't ruin every COD thread with hate for what the series is now, I just move on and play other games. I don't see why others can't do the same thing - if you no longer like Nintendo, if they don't do it for you, if you have a PS4 and love it, then cool, I'm happy for you. Just don't keep coming to the Nintendo threads to endlessly post the same condescending rubbish about games you don't want to play!

 

Great post, particularly the part about (not) posting in game threads you don't like.

[Hero-of-Time]

Great post, particularly the part about (not) posting in game threads you don't like.

 

This could also be applied to you, though.

 

When Wii created a thread for wanting to discuss the negative side of Amiibo ( due to people kicking off with him for being in the normal thread ) you still went into that thread. Why bother going in to said thread if you are quite happy with Amiibo?

[Daft]

You know, The Order thread is pretty well balance - bar me hoping against hope that it was going to be much better than it was. If anything, that thread is a credit to the OCB.

[Hero-of-Time]

You know, The Order thread is pretty well balance - bar me hoping against hope that it was going to be much better than it was. If anything, that thread is a credit to the OCB.

 

Surprisingly, most of us really enjoyed the game, despite it's flaws.

 

I recently gave my brother a lend of it and he absolutely adores it. Said it was just what he needed while he waits for Gears.

[Ronnie]

This could also be applied to you, though.

 

When Wii created a thread for wanting to discuss the negative side of Amiibo ( due to people kicking off with him for being in the normal thread ) you still went into that thread. Why bother going in to said thread if you are quite happy with Amiibo?

 

He would have been the only person in that thread if only people who disliked amiibo could post. I have an interest in them therefore didn't see it as unreasonable to post. He goes on and on about how much he hates them yet stirs the regular Amiibo thread looking to start arguments.

[Daft]

Surprisingly, most of us really enjoyed the game, despite it's flaws.

 

I recently gave my brother a lend of it and he absolutely adores it. Said it was just what he needed while he waits for Gears.

 

As soon as it hits ~£20, and I'm done with the Witcher and Batman, I'll definitely pick it up. Think after those open world games, The Order might be ideal.

[Hero-of-Time]

He would have been the only person in that thread if only people who disliked amiibo could post. I have an interest in them therefore didn't see it as unreasonable to post. He goes on and on about how much he hates them yet stirs the regular Amiibo thread looking to start arguments.

 

He made that thread so he could talk freely about them in a negative manner and people still followed him in, despite being sick of his banter in the normal thread.

 

He wouldn't have been the only one in there. Many like to discuss the stock issues, quality build etc. If you are happy with such things then why bother going into the negative thread in the first place, other than to derail and have your positive say, which is what the other thread was for.

 

As soon as it hits ~£20, and I'm done with the Witcher and Batman, I'll definitely pick it up. Think after those open world games, The Order might be ideal.

 

Indeed. It was certainly a nice change of pace playing a more story driven and focused games.

 

You'll probably be able to get it for £15 by the time you are done with those other games. It's constantly kicking around the £20 mark now.

[dazzybee]

Some people are saying "those that are positive about Nintendo don't go in to the Other Consoles board and needless complain there" as if it somehow 'proves' that pro-Nintendo people are 'better'.

 

And again, slight doubt standards, some people use the exact same reasoning to make out the other boards are better (no fighting there, so much nicer etc) - Don't say a word. Someone mentions that the reason it doesn't happen is because nintendo fans don't go on there and do the same things and you feel the need to condemn their point... Why didn't you want to condemn the original point that the other boards are implied "better" because there's no fighting?

 

This point wasn't raised by a few of us because we're saying nintendo fans are better, it was a direct response to someone mentioning it, and it is a valid point, maybe because the reason you said (you seemed to be arguing a point that was being made), but it is still the case, nintendo fans generally don't go over there much, so of course there isn't the inane bickering. It was purely an observation I'd imagine from everyone rather than a judgement call.

[Rummy]

People may find him annoying, or dislike the tone of his posts, but does that give people the right to attack him? I don't believe so. It also seems to me that those who are positive get far more warnings than the negative bunch.

 

This has led to a huge downward spiral in the numbers that seem to be posting. So many positive Nintendo fans who used to post have all been driven away. People who used to play on the Wii have slowly stopped posting and some people in this thread have even admitted to not wanting to post.

 

My first point - oh no! People have been told off! I'm really starting to think more and more that I've been silly in giving too many warnings and not enough punishments. Whilst I said that the moderation isn't transparent, I'd still pretty much say that other than the last few months - the number of infractions given has been minimal. Do people really get that upset about a warning/talking to?

 

Well, @Hero\-of\-Time already mentioned my second point I was going to make - it's driving people away on 'both sides'. I put that in '' because I don't know why this keeps becoming about sides. I don't think everyone realises this isn't a one sided or one dimensional problem. We also need people from all points of view to let us know when there's problems - the more vocal tend to be those being put off by(because they told us) Wii('negative'), Ronnie('positive'), Serebii('positive') and more recently Sheikah('negative'). Other names are in the mix but those are the most notable ones I've had complaints about - and it shows the problem isn't related to PoV.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Rummy

[Hero-of-Time]

Well, @Hero\-of\-Time already mentioned my second point I was going to make - it's driving people away on 'both sides'[/i]. I put that in '' because I don't know why this keeps becoming about sides.

 

I hate the sides thing and I think it's pretty petty and pathetic, TBH. I stated in the past that you can often tell who will Thank certain posts or posters when an argument breaks out. I think it's not about agreeing with what was said but more about waving your flag for which side you are on.

 

I know when I was mod I pitched forward the idea about removing the Thanks button from the Nintendo board for this very reason. I honestly think it creates a lot of problems and a lot of the time doesn't get used for it's intended purpose.

[Rummy]

I know when I was mod I pitched forward the idea about removing the Thanks button from the Nintendo board for this very reason. I honestly think it creates a lot of problems and a lot of the time doesn't get used for it's intended purpose.

 

But...but now I want to thank your post for the idea to remove thanks!

 

May actually be something to re-consider for a while, though.

[Agent Gibbs]

As much as i like thanks on posts, if its making it seem like battle lines are drawn and that only certain people like certain people than i'd be upset but willing for them to go

i generally like posts if i agree with any of the content, i've not really noticed a trend of sides likeing people on their side (uhhhh sides) but i'm sure if i go looking i'll notice it

[Debug Mode]

Other names are in the mix but those are the most notable ones I've had complaints about - and it shows the problem isn't related to PoV.

 

I'm noticing this too lately. It seems certain reactions are being geared towards certain posters saying things and using their character against them rather than challenging their opinions in a constructive manner. Essentially ad hominem, no?

 

Serebii, from the 'positive' crowd and Wii from the 'negative' crowd, are going to be the two posters which I have seen often attracting unwarranted flack. Looking at Serebii's comments in this thread has opened my eyes a little to a certain hypocrisy I've had in this forum. Although I do think he needs to get in control of his arrogance (you can not even dare flirt with the idea with a 3D main series Pokémon game for example), the annoyance I've had of the defence of Nintendo of things they should be called out on purely for being Nintendo can apply in reverse, that some people may feel we are attacking Nintendo purely for being Nintendo, which I'm pretty sure is not the case.

 

As for Wii, a very vocal poster for sure which tends to attract a lot of flack that is mostly unwarranted. And this is where my annoyance comes in because it's so simple to just ignore these things if you don't like what's being said, but there are members that I can only assume sit by their computers ready to ambush him and this kicks off a lot of drama as we know the baiting and insults aren't at all welcome. And, in a certain someone's case, are going to be completely unheard thanks to the magic of having an ignore list feature.

[Clownferret]

just caught up with the last few pages of this thread, very good reading.

 

A few more things that have come to mind:

I don't think anybody has a problem with different opinions, I quite often complain about aspects of Nintendo gaming and nobody has confronted me, but there are a couple of people who derail EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION with anti Nintendo, pro Playstation nonsense, some of which is so stupid that I and others feel the need to "address the situation". From memory one such conversation was how the PS4 is cheaper than the Wii U!

Another thing I have noticed that it only appears to be PS4 that this happens with, probably because the key culprits own PS4's and not XB1's. I remember moaning about Nintendo because I would need to buy another console so I could play FIFA & PGA and how Nintendo's failures were going to cost me £500. I got jumped on for talking crap about PS4 as it wouldn't cost this much and I hadn't even mentioned what console I was going to buy.

I certainly consider myself impartial and with the possible exception of @Ronnie & @Serebii I think most people are, I certainly don't harbour any ill felling towards either of them for being passionate Nintendo fans in a Nintendo forum and talk of banning them is ludicrous.

[Goafer]

there are a couple of people who derail EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION with anti Nintendo, pro Playstation nonsense...

 

Now this I just don't agree with. I'd say more people from the pro Nintendo "side" bring up the PS4 than the anti Nintendo "side". People have definitely been called on it several times.

 

I'd find quotes, but I'm on my phone. Plus it would involve more effort that I'm willing to put in to this fiasco and it's not like anyone would listen, much like people don't listen to the counter points to comments such as PS4 only having shooters and WiiU only having platformers.

 

And I guess that's the problem. People on both sides are so fucking stubborn in their views and are completely unable to concieve that other opinions might exist.

[Debug Mode]

Clownferret, do you kind quoting these posts that you're talking about? I haven't seen any pro-Playstation derailment, I usually see Ronnie do the exact opposite though.