Serebii Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 It's more that people don't understand that others can have different levels of independence to what they had when they lived at home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 It's more that people don't understand that others can have different levels of independence to what they had when they lived at home Actually it's more that you insisted you have 100% independence/freedoms even after you pretty much agreed you don't after people asked you whether you could do a list of things. Whether you are happy with that level of independence/freedoms is another matter, and nobody judges or looks down on you because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Actually it's more that you insisted you have 100% independence/freedoms even after you pretty much agreed you don't after people asked you whether you could do a list of things. Whether you are happy with that level of independence/freedoms is another matter, and nobody judges or looks down on you because of it. I do have 100% freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 He probably meant he has 100% independence to do what he wants to do. No one has 100% independence to do anything anybody would ever want to do, unless you're somehow above the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 It's more that people don't understand that others can have different levels of independence to what they had when they lived at home I just moved back in with my parents. And while I don't feel any restrictions on what I can do, it's still not independence. They currently do my washing, cook the evening meals, pay the bills. If I were living alone I would be doing all of these things. I'm happy not to do these things, but it's still a lack of independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I do have 100% freedom. Like bob says, nobody does. But if you are free to do everything you want to right now then that's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goafer Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 Ironically, this thread could probably be used to show exactly who needs to grow up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 He probably meant he has 100% independence to do what he wants to do. No one has 100% independence to do anything anybody would ever want to do, unless you're somehow above the law. Yeah, freedom and independence are two completely different things. And while you can be quite independent, one has to be a fool to believe we actually have any freedom in contemporary society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I don't think you ever really grow up, just grow older really. It seems different with the older generation, but even people I know now who are in their 30s-40s are kinda feeling a bit of the 'is this what grownup is??' vibe. A lady I work with is only 6 years older than me, married, homeowner, just had second kid...I know when we've talked she's still not entirely confident that she's grownup and worries with the fact she's actually trusted with all these things lol. Now, I don't have the relationship or family side of things, and 'technically' not a real stable job neither(tho as job thread'll show it's doing me good) - but whilst I've been working for the NHS for coming on 9 or 10 years, got my house, a job I like etc...I still feel like I ain't neccessarily all that grownup. I definitely feel more grownup of sorts than when I was younger, though not as grownup as I thought I'd feel/be by now. It makes me worry sometimes but then it turns out a lot of folks then to think I'm older than I am anyway and when they find out how old I am are all like 'oh you so young you ain't old enough to complain etcetc' lol. I did used to say, and guess I do still think so now though, that working the job I was in grew me older and faster than I probably would have otherwise mentally, but to be honest that's something else I'm grateful for. In the grand scheme of things though, I don't know if you ever truly get to a point of feeling 'grownup' and I'm not even sure if I'll ever want to now either, if that makes any sense. It's kinda nice to think there's still something more to be tomorrow, no? Seriously.... Btw am I the only person who lives at home still pays a bit of rent. Not like going rate but some money none the less. I used to until last year(though I was looking for a while) when I moved out/finally finished being kicked out. Having said that, I was fortunate in that my parents helped me both in giving me and lending me money to buy my house which brings me on to... Im sure a lot of people probably think they are perfectly happy with how things are at home but as soon as they move out they'll realise how wrong they were. Not that they are secretly unhappy but being independant completely different (...I assume ) Ykno, I'm not sure if I'm too much more fussed being in my own place now. One thing - no barneys with the parents, and it's probably been better for our relationship; but mostly at home I had quite a lot of the freedoms as I wanted. Having said that, I started by taking a lot of freedoms I was being told I wasn't allowed when I was younger, and it kinda fed into the latter of me having them in ways. I had more than some, and less than others, but on the whole I managed to get by quite well with it - and so I stayed with them for a long time(moving with them in 2009 too). One thing I think we both shared mentally - I wouldn't move out and rent, so it was only going to be buying; for me staying at home and saving as long as I could to put towards my own place was a balance between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I can't believe how quickly this descended into bashing @Serebii just because he lives at home and has a relaxed relationship with his parents and feels he gets to do as he wishes! The way some people act on here is as if they live on luxury yachts moored off the coast of Monaco and are surrounded by Playboy bunnies all day as they drink champagne and work on their tan! I moved out when I was 18, but I know plenty of people who live at home and it works for some and doesn't work for others. It hasn't at all descended into that and trust you to make an argument out of something where there isn't one. Nobody is judging Serebii for living at home. What people are arguing is that you don't have the same level of independence and freedoms as when you have your own place. If he didn't argue against what is pretty clearly true then none of this would have happened. I don't think he is. I can see where Zechs is coming from a little. Reading this felt a little like you were all telling him something you don't know about in some ways. You can't tell him if he does or doesn't have 100% freedom/independence/whatever just like you can't tell me about mine. I live with my parents and I can do whatever I want. If I said I wanted to go out, I would. If I want the place to myself, I'd obviously ask but you'd do if you lived with flatmates anyway so that's got nothing to do with anything. I can paint the walls any colour I like and I get a say in whatever decisions are made in the house. I pay a third to all of the bills because I insist it- my parents tell me I don't have to if I don't want to but I want to do it because it's fair. I can go out and come back whenever I please (latest I'm ever out anyway is midnight). Yeah, I get my meals and stuff cooked for me but I'm hopeless at cooking anyway. So I have to say, I COMPLETELY get where @Serebii is coming from because by the looks of it, I'm living the same way he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I don't think he is. I can see where Zechs is coming from a little. Reading this felt a little like you were all telling him something you don't know about in some ways. You can't tell him if he does or doesn't have 100% freedom/independence/whatever just like you can't tell me about mine. I live with my parents and I can do whatever I want. If I said I wanted to go out, I would. If I want the place to myself, I'd obviously ask but you'd do if you lived with flatmates anyway so that's got nothing to do with anything. I can paint the walls any colour I like and I get a say in whatever decisions are made in the house. I pay a third to all of the bills because I insist it- my parents tell me I don't have to if I don't want to but I want to do it because it's fair. I can go out and come back whenever I please (latest I'm ever out anyway is midnight). Yeah, I get my meals and stuff cooked for me but I'm hopeless at cooking anyway. So I have to say, I COMPLETELY get where @Serebii is coming from because by the looks of it, I'm living the same way he does. The point was however - you are still more limited than you would most often be in your own place. Paint the walls any colour you say - any and all of them? Or just a specific few? 'getting a say' or being the only say? There's differences, that's the point. I've been on both sides of the coin, and there's definitely a difference. I didn't mind the more limited living at home too much though, especially compared to some of the more chore-some aspects of independence(ie the chores) :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I don't think he is. I can see where Zechs is coming from a little. Reading this felt a little like you were all telling him something you don't know about in some ways. You can't tell him if he does or doesn't have 100% freedom/independence/whatever just like you can't tell me about mine. I live with my parents and I can do whatever I want. If I said I wanted to go out, I would. If I want the place to myself, I'd obviously ask but you'd do if you lived with flatmates anyway so that's got nothing to do with anything. I can paint the walls any colour I like and I get a say in whatever decisions are made in the house. I pay a third to all of the bills because I insist it- my parents tell me I don't have to if I don't want to but I want to do it because it's fair. I can go out and come back whenever I please (latest I'm ever out anyway is midnight). Yeah, I get my meals and stuff cooked for me but I'm hopeless at cooking anyway. So I have to say, I COMPLETELY get where @Serebii is coming from because by the looks of it, I'm living the same way he does. I was going to type a big reply out to this but I will just say we will have to agree to disagree regarding the amount of independence people have when living at home/alone. And I am by no means the only one here who brought up these points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I don't think he is. I can see where Zechs is coming from a little. Reading this felt a little like you were all telling him something you don't know about in some ways. You can't tell him if he does or doesn't have 100% freedom/independence/whatever just like you can't tell me about mine. I live with my parents and I can do whatever I want. If I said I wanted to go out, I would. If I want the place to myself, I'd obviously ask but you'd do if you lived with flatmates anyway so that's got nothing to do with anything. I can paint the walls any colour I like and I get a say in whatever decisions are made in the house. I pay a third to all of the bills because I insist it- my parents tell me I don't have to if I don't want to but I want to do it because it's fair. I can go out and come back whenever I please (latest I'm ever out anyway is midnight). Yeah, I get my meals and stuff cooked for me but I'm hopeless at cooking anyway. So I have to say, I COMPLETELY get where @Serebii is coming from because by the looks of it, I'm living the same way he does. Yeah, we have the exact same situation, though I sometimes cook for the family too...out of choice because I enjoy it. It's not right for certain people to have a go saying we don't know freedom just because they were under restrictions when they lived at home that people like us don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 It's not right for certain people to have a go saying we don't know freedom just because they were under restrictions when they lived at home that people like us don't have. Nobody is having a go at you, so don't try to play the victim card. We're all aware that people living at home can have varying levels of freedom and independence. But the fact still remains that living on your own affords more independence than living with your parents. Even when living alone there are varying levels. Living in a house share is less independent than renting your own place. And renting is less independent than owning your own house. These are facts. They're not insults, they're not down to personal experience, they're just facts. You can choose to accept them or not, but if you do the latter then you can't get all upset when somebody tries to correct you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbob Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 As i mentioned earlier, i still live at home. In terms of the independance i get, i do my own washing, ironing, cleaning. Got my own bathroom which i decorated and contributed in the cost/design of the stuff in the last year. I pay my fair share of the bills and get a takeaway or two in each month. I get my own breakfast and lunch, but tea is cooked/prepared for me. And i get my own part of the fridge and freezer to store food and drink. Which is fine with me, and my parents don't mind this arrangement, in fact it was them that suggested it. And, if i say i'm off out or going anywhere, i just say i'm off out. My Mum still wants to know roughly where i'm going, you know mothers being concerned no matter what age you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I know a few people who live with their parents, but still live as independently as they can (paying rent, cooking their own food, never borrowing their parents' car, etc.). I've nothing against it (heck, I'd love to take care of my own individual food if my household didn't insist on making family meals), but regardless of how much freedom your parents grant you, there's always a degree of dependence, even if it's just mental, even if it is just the fact that you're living with people who've known you all their lives. I usually recommend to people that they should try to live alone at some point of their lives, even if just for a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 A lot of Indian families live with their elderly parents...are they less grown up/ independent than someone who lives on their own? I have no idea I'm just stirring shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You seem to have a very naive view of how the world works if you think people only do what they're supposed to. I can see where this is coming from, but the fact that I've seen entire societies reluctant of stepping outside of the norm ("what is allowed", so to speak) makes me see Serebii's statement as more inexperienced than naive. A lot of Indian families live with their elderly parents...are they less grown up/ independent than someone who lives on their own? I have no idea I'm just stirring shit. What do you mean "Indian families"? My grandparents always lived with at least one of their children, it's not an uncommon arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) A lot of Indian families live with their elderly parents...are they less grown up/ independent than someone who lives on their own? I have no idea I'm just stirring shit. Less grown up? No. Less independent? Yes. The most independent you can be is living on your own. If you live in a couple, you're somewhat dependent on your other half for your livelihood. So yes, if you live with your (elderly) parents then you are less dependent. This debate has lost all meaning. Nobody ever claimed that moving out and being as independent as possible was the be all and end all to becoming a "grown up" (which most people agreed was a flimsy concept at best). Merely that moving out affords further independence (even if only slightly) than living with your parents. What do you mean "Indian families"? Please excuse bob and his lack of political correctness. He means "Native American families". Edited April 29, 2015 by MoogleViper Automerged Doublepost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Perhaps going back to @Goafer original post because man this seems to have derailed and got nasty quick. Heh. (well ok slightly, but still) I've lived away from home since I was 18. I've been independent since I was young - probably barely a teen, due to things with parents and my sister but that's another story for another day. Do I feel like an adult? No Do I feel independent? Yes I don't think I'll ever feel what is classed as an 'adult'. According to @Serebii that means having kids. That's no dig, that's his definition, but for me that's not going to happen. For others it's marriage, I'm not sure I'll get married, so that's out too. For some it simply means moving out and doing your own thing. In that case: I've lived away from home, kept a job since I was 16, had a car since I was 18 and cared for it. Had multiple flats and houses to live in, paid my bills and dealt with the tax man. -- As for my boyfriend, he lives right in London, he's never moved out, even for university. London is expensive and even at 26, it's tough to break and get your own place, especially if you don't have the right job. Would I say he's not an adult? No, he's sometimes more of an 'adult' than me! He's aware of the world and grown up enough to know how to do most things and get on with it. Is he independent? Probably not. Why? Because he gets his meals cooked for him, his clothes washed and never has to worry about bills. He lives off mum and dad for the most part and you know what? That's ok. --- I quite frequently envy him though, but both sides have their cons and pros. For me, I do what I want with what my money from my job provides. I live how I want to live and where I want too. For him it means he never has to worry about food in the cupboards or that a bill hasn't been paid. *shrug* I wouldn't and I don't concern myself with whether I'm an adult or not. At 24, I'm sure I've still got a ton left to learn and people much older than me speak about how they still don't quite feel mature or adult like yet. It doesn't really seem a big deal and doesn't stop me from doing what I want or need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) I live in a shed in my Mum's garden. It's win-win really, I get all my meals and washing done whilst still getting my own space. Only thing is the shed has to be painted with Ronseal paint to protect against the elements, so I don't get much of a say in that. I can have as many friends over as I like but it's only usually one at a time, since there isn't much room. Edited April 29, 2015 by Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The point was however - you are still more limited than you would most often be in your own place. Paint the walls any colour you say - any and all of them? Or just a specific few? 'getting a say' or being the only say? There's differences, that's the point. I've been on both sides of the coin, and there's definitely a difference. I didn't mind the more limited living at home too much though, especially compared to some of the more chore-some aspects of independence(ie the chores) :p It works differently in my house. We all get a say and we all listen to each other's opinions. My friends live in their own flat and they can't paint the walls a different colour because that what it says on their contract so they don't get the freedom to do anything they want in respects as to how they want their home to look. Right now, if I really wanted to, I can go out and by bright pink paint and paint my bedroom walls with it because it's MY bedroom and my parents would be okay with it. Obviously with stuff that is SHARED and not mine, it'd be up for discussion, which would be normal if you were to live with flatmates anyway. It's not just your living space, it's theirs too. Would you say that you wouldn't get the same freedom or independence if you were to live with flatmates either? I'm currently going through different colours and stuff for my room and when I can actually be arsed, I'll do it, haha. But yeah, no digs, no arguments, that's just honestly my living arrangements. Sometimes I do want to move out just because I want my own place but then other times, I'd hate nothing more than to be alone. I'd definitely need to have someone living with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 It works differently in my house. We all get a say and we all listen to each other's opinions. My friends live in their own flat and they can't paint the walls a different colour because that what it says on their contract so they don't get the freedom to do anything they want in respects as to how they want their home to look. Right now, if I really wanted to, I can go out and by bright pink paint and paint my bedroom walls with it because it's MY bedroom and my parents would be okay with it. Obviously with stuff that is SHARED and not mine, it'd be up for discussion, which would be normal if you were to live with flatmates anyway. It's not just your living space, it's theirs too. Would you say that you wouldn't get the same freedom or independence if you were to live with flatmates either? I'm currently going through different colours and stuff for my room and when I can actually be arsed, I'll do it, haha. But yeah, no digs, no arguments, that's just honestly my living arrangements. Sometimes I do want to move out just because I want my own place but then other times, I'd hate nothing more than to be alone. I'd definitely need to have someone living with me. As expanded on by Moogle - there's varying degrees. Me, right now? I can paint every single inside and outside and halfside nearside offside or noside wall of this abode I'm in whatever the hell sort of colour I want, with no one telling me otherwise. The point was simply that, at home with your parents, you do not have that level of freedom compared. In event of having housemates in my current situation, I'd still have more freedom than with my parents. I don't know why* it ended up getting so over-complicated and off-topic into a different discussion and personal feelings of slightedness. But it's interesting, isn't it? That independence has come up with the whole growing up aspect? Life kinda forces more and more independence on you as time goes on, is that what is supposed to make us 'grown up'? Or what we see as it? Well, that and responsibilities, too. I think the growing up is the way we deal and respond to that, but the incongruency comes in the personal feeling that, whilst we ARE dealing with it, we aren't some magical new 'grown-up' being of sorts(or at least not what we thought that would/should be). *I absolutely do know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I don't think he is. I can see where Zechs is coming from a little. Reading this felt a little like you were all telling him something you don't know about in some ways. You can't tell him if he does or doesn't have 100% freedom/independence/whatever just like you can't tell me about mine. I live with my parents and I can do whatever I want. If I said I wanted to go out, I would. If I want the place to myself, I'd obviously ask but you'd do if you lived with flatmates anyway so that's got nothing to do with anything. I can paint the walls any colour I like and I get a say in whatever decisions are made in the house. I pay a third to all of the bills because I insist it- my parents tell me I don't have to if I don't want to but I want to do it because it's fair. I can go out and come back whenever I please (latest I'm ever out anyway is midnight). Yeah, I get my meals and stuff cooked for me but I'm hopeless at cooking anyway. So I have to say, I COMPLETELY get where @Serebii is coming from because by the looks of it, I'm living the same way he does. I still live with my Mum and whilst I feel I have a certain degree of freedom, but I don't think I feel as deluded as to having no where near as much "freedom" as you and Serebii claim. I can go out and come back when I want, if I come back too late and make too much noise enough times I could get kicked out. So the freedom to do that has gone. I could paint any wall in the house any colour, but that's not to say that she won't paint over it as soon as she cans. So I'm not free to redecorate. I'm not sure if I've had a say in things, but just because you have a say doesn't mean you'll get your way. If people decide otherwise, yes you were free enough to voice an opinion, but not free enough to actually make a change by yourself. I don't really expect to be consulted anyway, she pays all the bills and cooks so she can (and recently did so) get new wallpaper, carpet and sofa for the living room in whatever way she wants. The wallpaper and sofa aren't what I would have in my home, but it's her choice. Not mine. Not ours. Hers. Plus I hope to move out before the end of the year. My challenge to you and Serebii - be arseholes. Go out late, slam doors, come home at 3am and put the TV on loud. Bring groups of friends around during Emmerdale and tell your parents that you need the living room to watch Pointless which you recorded earlier today (delete everything of your parents recorded on their TiVo's/whatever). See if your parents stand for you exploring your 100% freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 My challenge to you and Serebii - be arseholes. Go out late, slam doors, come home at 3am and put the TV on loud. Bring groups of friends around during Emmerdale and tell your parents that you need the living room to watch Pointless which you recorded earlier today (delete everything of your parents recorded on their TiVo's/whatever). See if your parents stand for you exploring your 100% freedom. Happens often. I have many late nights, often needing music playing with my work. Besides, they're heavy sleepers, especially as my dad is deaf. Plus, I have my own TV and Virgin Media box in my room so it's illogical for me to bring friends in there, but I have many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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