Nintendo Switch - Happy Switchmas Everyone!

[Hero-of-Time]

What is 'PS I Love you XOXO'? Sounds interesting.

 

Its a Playstation Podcast. They used to host Beyond on IGN but left to do their own stuff.

[killthenet]

It is an interesting one, because financially Nintendo don't really need to release a new home console, financially they don't really need to do anything because they have such an abundance of cash. But investors like to see a company spending money and opening up new avenues of income, so the move into mobile is a way to appease them while still doing it on Nintendo's terms.

 

The Wii U seems to be quite highly regarded as a system among a lot of gamers and journalists, so it always seems odd to me when someone rallies against it so heavily as this Colin guy seems to. I've never listened to the podcast you mention, so I can't speak about that guy specifically, but I do find it odd when people get so passionate about how Nintendo has 'burned' them, it's been so long since any Nintendo console had really solid third party support that surely most people buy a Nintendo console expecting to mainly play Nintendo's own games and since when have their own games been a let down?

 

There has always been more than enough good first party software in each generation to warrant a purchase of a Nintendo console, even if a lot of the time there aren't releases to continuously whet our appetites we still get at least 4 or 5 fantastic titles a year. Obviously the ideal situation would be that Nintendo are able to receive a proper slate of AAA multi-platform releases to bolster their own output so that we don't have to purchase another console to enjoy Fifa, or Fallout or Call Of Duty, but in reality we have to and most serious gamers are able to afford to have two home consoles, so it rarely comes down to choosing whether you prefer playing Nintendo games to the big third party releases - most of us can choose both.

 

Granted, this year has been a bit thin on the ground for the Wii U and 3DS, with Mario Tennis and the Animal Crossing Amiibo games being lacklustre holiday replacement titles that don't live up to the quality we expect from Nintendo games, but we've still had a pretty decent slate of releases with the likes of Splatoon, Super Mario Maker, Yoshi's Wooly World and Xenoblade X alongside excellent DLC for Smash Bros and Mario Kart.

 

It makes me wonder what people expect from a Nintendo console and from Nintendo releases. I'm not trying to start an argument or troll anyone by saying any of this, I'm simply asking what we should expect from the NX that the history of Nintendo has warranted us to expect.

 

What are the factors that are driving Nintendo with the NX? We know that they are seeking to unify handheld and home console development in some way and that they want to appease their investors, which is what has prompted their move into the mobile market. Putting aside our own biases towards what we think Nintendo should do, what do we think Nintendo will be trying to achieve with the NX?

 

What are your expectations for a video game console each year? How many releases do you think there should be? What variety of titles is necessary for a healthy home console?

Edited November 26, 2015 by killthenet

[Tellyn]

It is an interesting one, because financially Nintendo don't really need to release a new home console, financially they don't really need to do anything because they have such an abundance of cash. But investors like to see a company spending money and opening up new avenues of income, so the move into mobile is a way to appease them while still doing it on Nintendo's terms.

 

Exactly. Nintendo Gamer pointed out three years ago that they could afford to operate at a loss for 38 years... not that that's any way to run a business, and I would imagine that's why there's been an increased focus on Amiibo, mobile gaming, and presumably the NX. I don't think we'll ever see Nintendo fully depart the console market as long as they're making money. They'll continue to do their own thing, because they have a core crowd of fans who will buy anything they put out on principle.

[Kounan]

And also they are making profits now.

[Hero-of-Time]

@killthenet Colin was a massive Nintendo gamer. He grew up playing the NES and had every Nintendo console that came out. When the Wii arrived it wasn't what he wanted out of a console, something that many gamers ( some on here ) could probably sympathise with. He's not a fan of gimmicks, he's said as much many times. He would prefer if they just went back to basics, give people a normal controller and leave it at that.

 

Exactly. Nintendo Gamer pointed out three years ago that they could afford to operate at a loss for 38 years... not that that's any way to run a business, and I would imagine that's why there's been an increased focus on Amiibo, mobile gaming, and presumably the NX. I don't think we'll ever see Nintendo fully depart the console market as long as they're making money. They'll continue to do their own thing, because they have a core crowd of fans who will buy anything they put out on principle.

 

Problem with this is that the people who religiously buy Nintendo goods are fading with every generation. Just look at this place as a small example. There's no growth there and ultimately it may bite them in the butt.

[Tellyn]

Problem with this is that the people who religiously buy Nintendo goods are fading with every generation. Just look at this place as a small example. There's no growth there and ultimately it may bite them in the butt.

 

I agree, it's not healthy for their own growth either. They're stuck in a weird situation, in that they helped to carve not just a niche, but a massively new market with the Wii and DS... and they've lost it. They're left with the people who stick by them just because they're Nintendo - us. They're no longer really making the types of games that defined their blue ocean era, but at the same time they're still sort of clinging to that mentality with the games that they are bringing out to a degree.

 

So do they move forwards and do what Sony and Microsoft are doing and try to shoulder their way back into the market they vocally tapped out of with the Wii, or create their own path again? It's a bit like lightning striking twice, because the Wii genuinely felt revolutionary to me when it came out. The pointer alone on the Wii Remote was incredible for me because I hadn't seen anything like that before, I'm sure many of the millions who bought it in the first few months felt the same way. I'm not exactly sure what they could do to break new ground like that again, but out of their options, I'd say that's their best bet for making a significant amount of impact again.

[Serebii]

Thing is, Nintendo going for a "basics" console would end very, very badly for them. There's no room in the marketplace for three near identical consoles. Nintendo have to be different enough in order to entice people but similar enough to lure third parties.

 

It's tricky.

[killthenet]

Thing is, Nintendo going for a "basics" console would end very, very badly for them. There's no room in the marketplace for three near identical consoles. Nintendo have to be different enough in order to entice people but similar enough to lure third parties.

 

It's tricky.

 

Exactly. At the moment Nintendo still offer great games to Nintendo fans. With the Wii, despite being gimmicky and focusing too much on 'waggle' controls, Nintendo still offered their hardcore fans great gaming experiences. In some cases they were hindered by the 'gimmicky' controls but in other instances the motion controls worked perfectly and complemented the gameplay.

 

With the Wii U they tried to go back to the traditional game controller but added the functionality of the gamepads touch screen. The Wii U was Nintendo's attempt at satiating those who still wanted Nintendo to innovate but also wanted them to offer a traditional gaming experience. Other than being underpowered, in what way is the Wii U not a traditional gaming console? Are people clamouring for a return to a standard controller really convinced that if Nintendo released an identifical console to the PS4 but with a GameCube controller instead of a Dualshock that it would sell as well as at least the Xbox One?

 

There isn't even a guarantee that Nintendo would win back many third parties with a console of equal power to the other two, as many of their issues with third parties are due to unfortunate spats - such as the one with EA where they won't even bother supporting the Wii U with a legacy version of Fifa, despite the fact they still do this for the PS2.

[Hero-of-Time]

Exactly. At the moment Nintendo still offer great games to Nintendo fans. With the Wii, despite being gimmicky and focusing too much on 'waggle' controls, Nintendo still offered their hardcore fans great gaming experiences. In some cases they were hindered by the 'gimmicky' controls but in other instances the motion controls worked perfectly and complemented the gameplay.

 

With the Wii U they tried to go back to the traditional game controller but added the functionality of the gamepads touch screen. The Wii U was Nintendo's attempt at satiating those who still wanted Nintendo to innovate but also wanted them to offer a traditional gaming experience. Other than being underpowered, in what way is the Wii U not a traditional gaming console? Are people clamouring for a return to a standard controller really convinced that if Nintendo released an identifical console to the PS4 but with a GameCube controller instead of a Dualshock that it would sell as well as at least the Xbox One?

 

There isn't even a guarantee that Nintendo would win back many third parties with a console of equal power to the other two, as many of their issues with third parties are due to unfortunate spats - such as the one with EA where they won't even bother supporting the Wii U with a legacy version of Fifa, despite the fact they still do this for the PS2.

 

The Wii U was stuck in the middle. It didn't know whether it was appealing to core gamers or the expanded and audience. Ultimately it tried for both and got neither. All that was left to support the thing were the Nintendo fans, which have shown are loyal but are a shrinking audience with every generation.

 

You ask in what way it's not like the rest and this can be answered with one world: Online. It's simply not up to the standard of the other 2 machines. Messaging, voice chat, usefulness of the friendslist, everything about it is so far behind what the other two are offering. It's not even up to scratch to what the 360 was offering last gen.

 

While this may not bother you personally, it certainly annoys a lot of people, especially on here. Again, look how many jumped ship this generation on this very forum because of things like this. Once people get a taste of what else is on offer, many of them can't go back. Honestly, I think you would see a lot more happy people if their online allowed for communication and matches were easy to set up. I certainly would be still playing Splatoon, Mario Kart and Smash if these things were implemented.

 

While it is a risk to try and match the other 2, it's no more of a risk of trying to catch lightning in a bottle once again. If they do something weird and wacky again, and aren't making it easy to port games, then once again 3rd parties won't touch them with a barge pole.

[Pestneb]

I'm not too fussed about using skype as a work around... but that's not an option at the moment, and playing without voice chat has put me off trying with splatoon. I've never used the other systems so fortunately skype (when I get it back up and running) is a passable work around, but I do want better online with the next home console. I'm not as pessimistic as many on here... I lost a lot of love and respect for Nintendo with the end of the Wii's life, only got the Wii U because it was dirt cheap and it looked like it was failing.. so I was hoping for something closer to the GC than the Wii was. I think I got that, but it's still not quite "there" for me. Hopefully the NX will be a nice step up.

[Ronnie]

All of you who own PS4s/XBOs, if the Wii U had decent third party support, COD, Battlefront, Tomb Raider, Destiny, Batman etc and better social features, would it be enough to keep you from buying a PS4/XBO? I get the impression it wouldn't and the vast majority of people would still want a PS4 for the exclusives/indies/wider range of third parties. If that's the case then trying to compete with other two machines would be a huge (expensive) risk.

 

I still think in the modern age of gaming, they're better suited to positioning themselves as a cheaper second console.

[Fierce_LiNk]

All of you who own PS4s/XBOs, if the Wii U had decent third party support, COD, Battlefront, Tomb Raider, Destiny, Batman etc and better social features, would it be enough to keep you from buying a PS4/XBO?

 

Yes.

 

No Alien: Isolation was a fucking travesty considering that there were PS3 and 360 versions of the game AND considering that the gamepad could have been used awesomely as a motion tracker.

 

Why would people want to spend hundreds of pounds on another device if they could get it all (or the vast majority of it all) on one machine?

[Sheikah]

All of you who own PS4s/XBOs, if the Wii U had decent third party support, COD, Battlefront, Tomb Raider, Destiny, Batman etc and better social features, would it be enough to keep you from buying a PS4/XBO? I get the impression it wouldn't and the vast majority of people would still want a PS4 for the exclusives/indies/wider range of third parties. If that's the case then trying to compete with other two machines would be a huge (expensive) risk.

 

I still think in the modern age of gaming, they're better suited to positioning themselves as a cheaper second console.

That's not really much of a question because Nintendo are so far from achieving it that we can't even imagine it.

 

Nintendo should also totally compete. Sony competed with PS1 and overtook in 1 generation.

[Esequiel]

If Nintendo added a proper live/psn system with an account system that actually a links games bought from the store to the account and not the console then I would be in.

 

I hated the PS3, it felt clunky and the PSN was embarrassing compared to live. I kept it for sing star and the 100+ tracks I bought. The 360 was amazing and I spent hundreds of ponds on downloadable games which were available on every 360 I had (mine and my sons). When I got a PS4 there was still £10+ in my game wallet ready to use and when sing star was released, the songs I owned on PS3 that were available on PS4 were free to download.

 

I spent so much money on my Wii downloadables. Let's face it, who doesn't want all the old Marios and zeldas and other classics!! When I sold the wii and the in laws bought one I figured I could load up my account and re-download them. No dice. Same problem with the wii u. We had one for a few certain games and loved them, spent money on downloads for games I already owned on the wii but I don't like leaving consoles sat there depreciating in value. And after trading it in I am told that yet again the games are linked to the system not the account.

 

It's batshit crazy. If I could redownload games I already paid for on the wii or at worst still get the games I had paid for on the wii u.... Blargh.

 

Ummm where was I.... Errrr, rant over?

[dazzybee]

This is why it's so fascinating to see what they'll do. Do they compete or not? Is it. Full on hybrid and is that the gimmick? Will they fix the account and online issues?

 

If they do it all is that even enough? Does it even matter?

 

I can't wait. I'm absolutely certain the embarrassing account situation will be sorted. I'm cerain online will be a lot better. I'm pretty certain it will be a hybrid. How good the online will be? How powerful it will be? These are the big questions for me.

[Kav]

All of you who own PS4s/XBOs, if the Wii U had decent third party support, COD, Battlefront, Tomb Raider, Destiny, Batman etc and better social features, would it be enough to keep you from buying a PS4/XBO? I get the impression it wouldn't and the vast majority of people would still want a PS4 for the exclusives/indies/wider range of third parties. If that's the case then trying to compete with other two machines would be a huge (expensive) risk.

 

I still think in the modern age of gaming, they're better suited to positioning themselves as a cheaper second console.

 

If the WiiU had party chat and the big Third Party games of course I wouldn't have bought a PS4!

 

Party chat is the biggest thing for me though, not being able to talk to your friends on the WiiU is criminal!

Edited November 26, 2015 by Kav

[killthenet]

As a few others have said, I'm not personally too bothered about voice chat but the lack of voice chat is symptomatic of what's wrong with Nintendo's online strategy. If online had been properly built into the OS of the Wii U from the ground up, then there would surely be a way to actually communicate with your friends, rather than it being limited whatever individual developers offer the user. Third parties might also have been more willing to work on Wii U versions of their games if there had been a similar online set up to the other consoles, as it would have cut down on the workload required to port a game over.

 

I don't see how Nintendo Account won't at least solve the problem with downloads being locked to one device. It's such an obvious problem and the solution is so easy that it has to be resolved when the new service launches. Hopefully Nintendo account stretches further than that though and really is the early stages of a true Nintendo version of Xbox Live or Playstation Now.

 

How many of us would willingly pay £10 a month to have a more substantial online service and the occasional free game? It seems like such a no-brainer, it's unbelievable that they haven't at least set up some kind of subscription service that offers hardcore fans access to more virtual console games.

 

As dazzybee said though, whatever Nintendo do over the next 12 months - it's going to be fascinating. I'm a happy Wii U owner but i'm considering buying a PS4 so that I can enjoy Fallout 4, Fifa and Shenmue 3 to name a few, but I'd much rather be able to play them on a Nintendo console, so if the NX boasts the 'industry leading specs' that would enable developers to release these games for it, then i'd be more than happy to wait until the NX arrives before playing them.

[nekunando]

It really is exciting to see what Nintendo do with NX. Nobody really knows what they should do or how they can get themselves out of the situation they currently find themselves in.

 

I genuinely can't wait to find out

[Serebii]

If Nintendo added a proper live/psn system with an account system that actually a links games bought from the store to the account and not the console then I would be in.

 

To be fair, the games are linked to accounts now...

[peterl0]

Can we agree that whenever anyone talks about linking accounts they mean that if your console is stolen or you buy the upgrade, you can tie it to a new account and re-download your games without contacting Nintendo, and without necessarily erasing the previous system. Like phones.

[Blade]

People saying that they dont know whether Nintendo should remain as a quirky gimmicky mess or to change themselves haven't quite got the grasp the effect of this embarrassing generation has done to them.

 

Nintendo needs to change. If they do not change then they will eventually not be able to compete. It has already been said that their market is shrinking by the generation.

 

I'm sorry, but releasing about 5 "decent" games a year (3 of which are platformers!!) is not acceptable. Releasing tat like Animal Crossing Amiibo Party or a shite Mario Tennis does them no favours.

 

"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change"

 

Nintendo needs to adapt to the modern era or face being irrelevant and a joke.

[Kounan]

I just hope that we will be able to transfer our games on our next console as most of my games are digital. OK, this is HD so I will probably play thee Wii U for a long time, even after the NX comes out as I don't have many games, but still it would be nice to have only one console conected to the TV and not 2 like I have now with the Wii (because of Mario Galaxy and few other games).

[Pestneb]

Change isn't necessarily the right word.. but perhaps "grow" would be a better term? Nintendo have a lot of good things, and a lot of things that need to develop (some a lot!). So those good things.. if they grow a little would be awesome. But the things needing to develop... needs to happen a lot.

I'm thinking of it hopefully like a frog. The black dot grows a tail.. then one day wriggles out of it's jelly egg, emerging as a happy tadpole. After many days it begins to grow back legs, then front legs develop as the tail disappears. And eventually the tadpole crawls out of the pond as a baby frog. Not sure what stage Nintendo are at... but yeah.. I'm hoping Nintendo have a big period of growth in the next gen!

[Serebii]

People saying that they dont know whether Nintendo should remain as a quirky gimmicky mess or to change themselves haven't quite got the grasp the effect of this embarrassing generation has done to them.

 

Nintendo needs to change. If they do not change then they will eventually not be able to compete. It has already been said that their market is shrinking by the generation.

 

I'm sorry, but releasing about 5 "decent" games a year (3 of which are platformers!!) is not acceptable. Releasing tat like Animal Crossing Amiibo Party or a shite Mario Tennis does them no favours.

 

"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change"

 

Nintendo needs to adapt to the modern era or face being irrelevant and a joke.

Nintendo needs to get third parties on board. That's all.

 

You say 5 decent games isn't acceptable? How many have Sony developed this year? Microsoft? Stolen from GAF

 

2015 Average by original games only

Nintendo: 68.48 (25 games)

Sony: 71.62 (8 games)

Microsoft: 83.60 (5 games)

 

2015 Average by 1st party developed games only

Nintendo: 71.45 (11 games)

Sony: 80.50 (2 games)

Microsoft: 81.33 (6 games)

 

Nintendo have put out far more games than their competitors did, both published and developed. Granted they've had a couple of stinkers like amiibo Festival, but can we scrap the idea that Nintendo can't support platforms? They can't support them alone but they're doing a damned good job at trying. Sony and Microsoft pump out less titles because they don't need to.

 

The major problem is lack of third parties and that's the major conundrum they need to solve...not their own thinking (for the most part. They do need to fix things, I'm not denying that.)

[Blade]

@Serebii

 

Problem is, Nintendo is the main developer whereas for the PS4 and XB1 there are tons of games due to it being better supported.

 

So comparing Nintendos output to that of Sony and Microsoft is not really fair.

 

You say Nintendo "are at least trying". I don't think so. Releasing around 5 games, 3 of which are platformers on their home console is not "trying" in my opinion. More like "can't be arsed"

Edited November 27, 2015 by Blade