Nintendo Switch - Happy Switchmas Everyone!

[Jamba]

I'm a little tech ignorant in this regard, but I just think of n64 using carts and it single handedly fucking things up for Nintendo. Have things changed or would it yet be another mistake and barrier for 3rd parties?

 

Yes, you're right. It's a horrendous thing for Nintendo to do. I was at a lecture by a publisher who was stating the minimum order quantities from Nintendo on DS cartridges and it was horrible. A huge investment of cash and a second run was almost the same price. This was why games like Castlevania disappeared of the shelves right away.

 

Nintendo control the production and want to rinse out cash at every stage of the process. You think that they use propriety disc formats for paying reasons? Nope, its so Nintendo can control the supply chain and make more dollar.

[Kav]

Would it be bad form of them to host an event on the anniversary of Iwata's passing, have a segment dedicated to his memory and his work and then reveal the NX console and games as a "for Iwata", as they say in their meetings?

[liger05]

I hope Nintendo don't forbid any third parties confirming NX releases.

 

If third parties are releasing NX multi plats then allow them to list the NX when they tell us the platforms. It will be silly if they have to say 'PS4/XB1/PC and unannounced platforms' then months later they confirm a NX release.

 

There is no reason for Nintendo to tell third parties to keep it secret.

[killthenet]

I'm not sure of the exact amounts, but I read on GAF recently that discs cost pennies to produce, but carts cost $2 or so, so there is still a difference but it's not the gulf in price that it was in the mid 90's. It'd be great if the NX does end up using flash cards instead of discs, but I think Nintendo would have to come to an arrangement with big developers to subsidise the cost, Nintendo is rich enough to do so and getting third parties on their side would only help to make it a success, which would in turn minimise the cost of subsidising cartridge costs.

[Dcubed]

I actually said this before, but I'm pretty confident that they're gonna go with 3DS style Game Cards with the NX console and handheld.

 

Typically, cartridge/game card sizes for Nintendo's consoles and handhelds increases by a factor of x8 when jumping generations. Going by that, we should be looking at 64GB Game Cards with the next generation (3DS max size was 8GB), which is already larger than a dual layer Blu-Ray.

 

Also, no Wii U game ended up being larger than 25GB, so that's more than double the size of even the largest Wii U game.

 

Greatly cuts down on loading times, increased reliability of the media, removes the noise of the disc drive, greatly decreased console size, decreased console heat, greatly increased console reliability, decreased console cost and the ability to share Game Cards across both console and handheld (use the exact same physical game card on both console and handheld - there's your cross buy!) and it's a no brainer really. The cost difference between modern day Game Card and BD disc is pretty minuscule now, so it's not really an issue of cost either.

 

With loading times being so incredibly long with optical media on PS4/Xbone, the alternative would be to copy what MS and Sony do with the PS4/Xbone (have mandatory installs that force the player to copy all data from disc to HDD). That's the kind of tech savvy thing Nintendo do not want to have to ask its audience to have to do. It would also greatly increase the price of the console as well because not only would they have to include a noisy disc drive, but they'd also have to include a large HDD as well; something they won't have to do (and probably wont - I suspect internal flash memory/USB 3 HDDs being used for digital purchases like on Wii U) if they go with Game Cards.

 

It really is the best solution all round. The main issue here is that of marketing though as many people still associate Game Cards with 90s consoles and handhelds...

Edited May 6, 2016 by Dcubed

[Kounan]

I am not sure about NX not having a bigger HDD as they are trying to promote digital sales and for that you need a bigger HDD.

 

Maybe nothing huge, but 250gb should be included, but it would increase the price of the console.

 

Is there a chance that we would be able to use the same external HDD we used on the Wii U, without loosing the games already installed on it?

[Pestneb]

I think having 128/250Gb on an entry model, with either an additional 500Gb/1Tb for a premium model would work generally...

 

if 25 Gb is the current max size of Wii U games, 10 games is the average owned... so 250Gb should suffice for most people on the Wii U and 1Tb should be enough for the NX....

 

I'd prefer 1Tb basic and 4Tb premium but.. looking at the Wii U (wasn't it 8Gb and 32Gb??) I imagine not.

 

Wii 512 Mb

Wii U basic 8 Gb

Wii U premium 32 Gb

 

So maybe NX basic could get a similar bump to 128 Gb and premium 512Gb. Still, seems a bit meagre, assuming 50Gb a game that would be 2/10 games before needing external storage options.

 

So as a reference for those like me who only have a Wii U, a PS4 and X1 both have 500Gb (16 times the Wii U capacity).

[RedShell]

With loading times being so incredibly long with optical media on PS4/Xbone, the alternative would be to copy what MS and Sony do with the PS4/Xbone (have mandatory installs that force the player to copy all data from disc to HDD). That's the kind of tech savvy thing Nintendo do not want to have to ask its audience to have to do.

Not sure how it works on Xbox, but on PS4 it ain't tech savvy at all. You literally just stick the disc in and it automatically starts installing, depending on the game it can be really fast too!

I've been amazed at how quickly some games have installed actually.

[Hero-of-Time]

Not sure how it works on Xbox, but on PS4 it ain't tech savvy at all. You literally just stick the disc in and it automatically starts installing, depending on the game it can be really fast too!

I've been amazed at how quickly some games have installed actually.

 

The Xbox One install is stupidly slow. Phil Spencer talked about it last year and how Sony really had the edge when it came to this. I'm not sure what the hell they done differently to cause this problem. I played Wolfenstein on both consoles and the difference between the time it took to install on both consoles was staggering.

 

I think having 128/250Gb on an entry model, with either an additional 500Gb/1Tb for a premium model would work generally...

 

if 25 Gb is the current max size of Wii U games, 10 games is the average owned... so 250Gb should suffice for most people on the Wii U and 1Tb should be enough for the NX....

 

You also have to factor in patch sizes and any DLC that arrives for games. The Smash Bros, Hyrule Warriors, Splatoon and Mario Kart stuff can really eat into your HDD space. Xenoblade X also has the 10Gb stuff that lets you run the game a little smoother. Yeah, it's optional but it would be nice to download and use it without having to worry about space.

[Happenstance]

I think at this point the NX needs to have a nice sized hard drive as standard. 500gbs on my PS4 got filled up really quickly so I think at least a 1tb and then either the ability to upgrade on your own or an external drive but it needs to be a large hard drive right off the bat. 8gb and 32gb on the Wii U was ridiculous.

[Hero-of-Time]

I think at this point the NX needs to have a nice sized hard drive as standard. 500gbs on my PS4 got filled up really quickly so I think at least a 1tb and then either the ability to upgrade on your own or an external drive but it needs to be a large hard drive right off the bat. 8gb and 32gb on the Wii U was ridiculous.

 

It really was. I mean, I don't do digital games that are at retail but even i'm struggling to keep things on my HDD at the moment. I had to juggle stuff around just the other week when the Humble Bundle arrived. eShop games, Virtual Console games, patches and DLC all eat up that HDD space. It feels like i'm back in the Wii era when you had to clean out the fridge every time a new game came out.

 

They need to ship the console with at least 500Gb HDD. I've never been close to running out of that space on my PS4 ( usually only play a couple games at a time and then delete them once i've finished ) so this would certainly do for me.

[bob]

When you delete a game on PS4 (to make space, say), does it still keep your saves, achievements, etc, a la Steam?

[Happenstance]

When you delete a game on PS4 (to make space, say), does it still keep your saves, achievements, etc, a la Steam?

 

Saves are in a different section which can be deleted seperately. Trophies will always be linked to your account.

[Dcubed]

Not sure how it works on Xbox, but on PS4 it ain't tech savvy at all. You literally just stick the disc in and it automatically starts installing, depending on the game it can be really fast too!

I've been amazed at how quickly some games have installed actually.

 

It's not terribly complicated, but considering that this is the same company that tried to explain how computer storage works to their audience with beads in glass jars, I can imagine that they want to avoid any sort of unnecceasary complication with their products wherever possible. It did take until Wii U before they finally started measuring game sizes in MB/GB instead of blocks after all!

 

Plus all the other associated benefits as well (not to mention that the savings on the cost of the drive, as well as the heat and wattage budget that it would otherwise consume, can be put towards a more powerful CPU/GPU instead - forgot to mention that!)

Edited May 6, 2016 by Dcubed

[Serebii]

It really was. I mean, I don't do digital games that are at retail but even i'm struggling to keep things on my HDD at the moment. I had to juggle stuff around just the other week when the Humble Bundle arrived. eShop games, Virtual Console games, patches and DLC all eat up that HDD space. It feels like i'm back in the Wii era when you had to clean out the fridge every time a new game came out.

 

They need to ship the console with at least 500Gb HDD. I've never been close to running out of that space on my PS4 ( usually only play a couple games at a time and then delete them once i've finished ) so this would certainly do for me.

The issue that Nintendo was wanting to avoid is how Hard Drives deprecate in business. They actually get more expensive with age, which is why Sony/MS keep having to put out new SKUs

[Dcubed]

The issue that Nintendo was wanting to avoid is how Hard Drives deprecate in business. They actually get more expensive with age, which is why Sony/MS keep having to put out new SKUs

 

This is true as well. Nintendo favour flash storage over HDDs for a number of reasons (this being a key one). Flash storage is also more reliable and performs better too (and we all know that reliability is a chief concern of Nintendo's, moreso than anyone else).

 

I reckon they're more likely to have 128GB of flash storage as standard (256GB at the absolute max, but I'm leaning more towards 128GB) and just allow people to connect any USB 3 HDD they want for more storage. No Premium or Basic SKU, just the one model.

[Pestneb]

afaik they aren't setting rrp in Europe (not sure world wide?) so maybe it's less of a factor now as shops set the price point, but having a budget price one and premium is an ok idea for me... idk what the pricing was at launch, but when I was looking at Wii U prices, the difference between a basic and premium was just too small to be worth it... really £50-£100 is what I would be looking at between the Wii U basic and premium consoles...

[Cube]

The issue that Nintendo was wanting to avoid is how Hard Drives deprecate in business. They actually get more expensive with age, which is why Sony/MS keep having to put out new SKUs

 

Why can't they just have "soft" revisions where they alter just the product code and put a newer HDD in?

[Clownferret]

Interesting reading, regarding the carts and HDD.

The problems with carts during the N64 era were purely cost related, so if there is no longer this gulf between ROM and disc based tech and chuck in the benefit of much quicker load times then I don't see why they wouldn't go down this route.

 

I think the HDD argument is irrelevant. Yes Wii U is 32gb and PS4 500gb but my PS4 filled up a lot quicker as the games are much bigger, the bottom line is you are going to have to upgrade regardless, so it makes sense for the console to have a smaller HDD to keep the cost down.

 

I remember Nintendo toying with RAM carts that were sold as blanks and you could go to a shop and buy a game which was loaded onto the cart. If they pursued this then the console wouldn't need a HDD as you could store downloads, saves, dlc etc onto RAM carts.

 

Food for thought

[Goron_3]

All dem PS4 SKU's, causing havoc to everyday consumers.

 

(Seriously though, has this even happened this gen?)

[bob]

Saves are in a different section which can be deleted seperately. Trophies will always be linked to your account.

I don't really see the problem then, unless you have really slow Internet or need immediate access to all your games.

 

On steam I only download the game I'm currently playing, and delete all local content otherwise. There's no way I could store all those games on my laptop, and nor would I want to.

[Dcubed]

All dem PS4 SKU's, causing havoc to everyday consumers.

 

(Seriously though, has this even happened this gen?)

 

Well Sony have only ever had one PS4 SKU being sold on the market at any one time no?

 

MS however have had multiple Xbone SKUs at the same time though haven't they? (and that hasn't exactly gone down well).

 

Every time we've had a console with two or more models, the lower priced one has always gone ignored. 60GB PS3 VS 20GB PS3, Premium Wii U VS Basic Wii U, Xbox 360 VS Xbox 360 Core etc...

 

The market clearly doesn't respond well to having multiple SKUs, so why bother making multiple ones?

 

The issue in regards to HDD storage and price isn't so much the fact that the HDD needs to be continuously replaced to avoid the price increasing, it's more that it's a fixed cost that never goes down; making it very difficult to reduce the cost of manufacturing over time. 360 and PS3 never hit the kinds of price points that the PS2 and GCN did for this very reason.

 

Flash storage however will reduce in cost over time, alongside all the other system components, meaning that the console will become much cheaper to produce over time. Adding in a HDD means that this cost reduction will not happen as it otherwise should do.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Dcubed

[Happenstance]

I don't really see the problem then, unless you have really slow Internet or need immediate access to all your games.

 

On steam I only download the game I'm currently playing, and delete all local content otherwise. There's no way I could store all those games on my laptop, and nor would I want to.

 

I think that is the problem though, Internet speeds just arent what they need to be, especially in rural areas. Games can easily be 20-40 gigs in size now and that can take days to download for some people. I keep a lot of my games installed on my PC and PS4.

 

Well Sony have only ever had one PS4 SKU being sold on the market at any one time no?

 

There are 500gb and 1tb versions of the PS4 currently available.

[Hero-of-Time]

All dem PS4 SKU's, causing havoc to everyday consumers.

 

(Seriously though, has this even happened this gen?)

 

Sony currently sell a 500gb model and 1tb model of the PS4 and the market seems to be fine with that. Same with the Xbox One.

[Dcubed]

There are 500gb and 1tb versions of the PS4 currently available.

 

Yeah but the 500GB one isn't really part of their current marketing is it? It's more that they need to phase out the older model and sell off their stock before the 1TB one takes over completely. The 500GB ones aren't just gonna up and disappear over night, it takes time to phase them out.