Sheikah Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I'm just going to leave it there because unless you can explain your reasoning as opposed to 'it sucks', I fear we are at an impasse.
Ronnie Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I see your Rayman Legends Castle Rock gameplay and raise you a 5-player session of NSMBU: That was amazing
peterl0 Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I must admit I don't understand all the Rayman Legends love. I played the demo and thought it was ok. I did not really enjoy the physics of the game (jumping seemed floaty). At a time when I was quite keen for a new Wii U game it did not make me want to take the plunge.
Retro_Link Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Yeah I have to say I don't really like the vibe of these Rayman games. I can appreciate the visual style but the character design doesn't appeal to me. I tried the demo and yes the music level is fun, but the floaty gameplay as a whole, not so much. 2D Mario needs to seriously raise it's game however. They should make an HD Shake Dimension graphics engine.
liger05 Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I must admit I don't understand all the Rayman Legends love. I played the demo and thought it was ok. I did not really enjoy the physics of the game (jumping seemed floaty). At a time when I was quite keen for a new Wii U game it did not make me want to take the plunge. I thought it was a very good game but Mario is in a different league. I absolutely loved the first New Super Mario Bros on DS but by the time I got around to playing the Wii U version it really did just feel like I'd been playing the same game over and over again. This. The 3DS version was enough for me. Edited March 13, 2015 by liger05
Ashley Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Playing Rayman Legends with Daft and at times others was a lot of fun. As childish as it sounds being able to slap each other made it funnier than Mario, which must felt safe. Plus the were plenty of other things, not just the slapping! I remember a particular level that resulted in Daft playing and me shouting "jump" as he navigated upwards. There was such tight rhythm in that level (and it wasn't a music one) it felt challenging in ways NSMBU simply didn't. Although we did play it on the PS4, which was much better than the Wii U version as we all know. Edited March 13, 2015 by Ashley
Ronnie Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 I thought it was a very good game but Mario is in a different league. Yeah but Rayman is very nice to look at at least.
drahkon Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Overall, the gameplay is middling at best. Again: Why?
nekunando Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Ultimately, everyone has different tastes I personally find New Super Mario Bros U to be a great looking game It obviously takes most of what was present in previous games in the series and gives it a lick of HD paint but everything is crisp and vibrant. The gameplay is also exemplary and provides a platforming precision that I never feel is quite matched by any other platformers. I've only played the demo of Rayman Legends, having actually owned Origins on Wii for a period of time, but I have found neither to be my cup of tea and ultimately sold Origins after playing through most of it and not really enjoying it in any meaningful way. I'm sure it appeals to many other gamers but I'd take Mario any day of the week Having said that, it would be nice to see the next 2D Mario game take a different direction
Rummy Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I personally find New Super Mario Bros U to be a great looking game It obviously takes most of what was present in previous games in the series and gives it a lick of HD paint but everything is crisp and vibrant. The gameplay is also exemplary and provides a platforming precision that I never feel is quite matched by any other platformers. I think this seems to be the biggest issue with it really. I didn't like NSMBU at first because it felt like it had all been done before - and that's coming from someone who even skipped owning NSMBWii and NSMB2. However I'll say in its defense slightly - I did find it(and have yet to complete it) a challenging game at times. If I go back to the Marios of my youth, I find them mostly unchallenging of sorts - probs because I know them so well, but possibly because they actually just aren't as challenging(can't be sure). If I look at NSMBU in its own right like that, and think of kids playing it in this age who haven't played much Mario before - I can see it becoming as awesome for them as the ones I played as a kid did. If that makes any sense at all. It's a really quite true to Mario platformer, but I CAN see the criticism from those who've had lots of Mario before how it just isn't innovating enough. I'd at least say it certainly isn't doing any much worse than the original big hitters in the Mario series either, though.
Serebii Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Again: Why? Levels aside from the music based ones felt uninspired, going through the motions, lack of impact etc.
drahkon Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Levels aside from the music based ones felt uninspired Ok.
Wii Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I haven't played Legends yet. It's still sitting here gathering dust with tonnes of other games but it looks gorgeous. I played and finished Origins and loved it. By all accounts Legends is even better. The NSMB games are good, I loved the first one on the DS. The thing is I've played so many of them now they feel a bit samey and uninspiring.
Ashley Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Speaking of Rayman, I'd love if Ubisoft released the UbiArt Framework like they promised. Looks like a great tool.
Daft Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Rayman is an absolutely gorgeous looking game. The levels all look beautifully hand drawn. The pace and the ease of the platforming is completely unrivalled. It's one of the best local multiplayer games I've ever played, it's a riot. Generally it's just way more energetic than Mario. Mario feels tired - a little over produced. Kind of soulless, like the mascots at Disney world.
Wii Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Here have a read if you want the latest bull$h1t from Reggie: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/03/12/nintendo-3ds-best-selling-video-game-console-in-february/ Let's start with this gem. “We think deeply about all our product names and really try and come up with a naming convention that makes sense for the consumer that communicates what’s going on,”
Sheikah Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Rayman is an absolutely gorgeous looking game. The levels all look beautifully hand drawn. The pace and the ease of the platforming is completely unrivalled. It's one of the best local multiplayer games I've ever played, it's a riot. Generally it's just way more energetic than Mario. Mario feels tired - a little over produced. Kind of soulless, like the mascots at Disney world. Completely agree with this. Decades ago, Nintendo came up with a great concept that has now become their cash cow. It's just so cookie cutter in the way they churn out more games in the Mario Bros format. The new Rayman is a much fresher and relevant series. Unlike Mario which is pretty forgiving in how you tackle platforms, Rayman feels a lot tighter.
dazzybee Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I love Rayman, but the last thing it is is tight, it's pretty floaty. Mario is maybe more boring but the course design and coNetil is unrivalled. If only we could merge the two - raymans presentation and gameplay variety woth Marios design and control!
Sheikah Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Guys, when I'm saying 'tight' I don't mean whether my character sinks like a stone when he jumps. I'm talking about the engineering of the levels. In the music levels in Rayman for instance, if you mis-time a jump, you will die. It's very precise, something that must come from them carefully designing their levels and repeatedly playing through them to test them. They've had to make the platform spacing and length of them just right, place obstructing enemies with a lot of thought, and so on. It feels the same with the challenges, and also with quite a few of the regular levels. Not everyone may appreciate that, but I do. With Mario, or at least NSMB, it's generally easy enough for kids to tackle as well as pro gamers. It's nowhere near as tight - you can take your time usually, and even levels where the camera is constantly tracking, you don't have to constantly run like in Rayman and you can even pause to time your jumps, and even then the timing of jumps is nowhere near as crucial. On a relative scale, anyhow. Anyone who has played a music level of Rayman will know exactly what I'm getting at. Unless you are god's gift to gaming, you will die a lot in perfecting your run. I never get that with NSMB. I mean, there's definitely some levels that are challenging but I feel they're challenging in different ways, not through seriously tight/well planned level design. In terms of tight Mario levels, star 242 on SMG2 is definitely a contender for that! To end this post, let me just say, I think the design of the Mario Bros style was brilliant. Mario is iconic. Super Mario World was/is amazing. The truth is, as I've grown up, I feel like the NSMB games are basically offering the same game over and over, along with the themes/environments, and the gameplay isn't changing enough. I welcome tight platforming as it's more of a challenge for me and something new to play with. Edited March 14, 2015 by Sheikah
dazzybee Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 The music levels are designed brilliantly, but as its to music its quite easy to do. I adored those levels, but I can safely say I barely died playing them. Maybe I'm just God gift to gaming I do love rhythm games in general an abnormal amount though..... I also think Marios genius is that kids and adults can play it, not a bad thing, but perfecting it is way more skilled than rayman could ecer hope to be. You played the challenge mode?
Sheikah Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I realise this now goes deep into our own experiences/preferences but...here goes. Bar few examples, for me NSMBU was generally not difficult to play through, in part because of how safe it is (which I think is partly because they dare not upset the balance they have established in these games, and being mindful of target audience). For the most part, NSMB feels like just a much more laid back game (look at the pace of Rayman legends levels where you're running versus NSMB where the screen is tracking along). For the main game in NSMB, if you even know slightly what you're doing you'll easily clear the game with stacks of lives and power ups that you can stock up on to pretty much make it a cinch. If I start a level in NSMB with a power up and a power up in reserve, not only do I have added abilities but I can take a good few hits too. At its most difficult in Rayman, if you literally knock that one enemy or stop the rhythm then you're done for. You can be skilled and not die on them, but that doesn't detract from the added challenge they bring relative to NSMBU runner levels. I literally cleared the normal mode of NSMB with next to no difficulty whatsoever, never getting even slightly phased by a single level. As for challenge levels, they are indeed more challenging, but for me they were still not particularly difficult. The pace is so much slower than Rayman as you run at a speed that let you react without much difficulty (again, personal opinion here). There are weekly extreme challenges on Rayman that are much tougher IMO as they are tests of mental endurance and no fuck ups, if you want to place high on the ladder. For further comparison, there's a level in Rayman Legends that is not only a music level but the screen splits into several tiny screens, goes fuzzy and generally becomes incredibly fucked up. That level really brought a smile to my face, took me back to the days of Metal Gear Solid with an out of game experience. It would be nice to see that kind of thing in NSMB I think! Edited March 15, 2015 by Sheikah
Zechs Merquise Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) I have DKTF, NSMBU and Rayman Legends and I love them all. But, NSMBU is a better game than Rayman Legends. Mario just has a perfect weight and 'feel'. The way he performs just feels completely natural, it's just perfect. Rayman feels good, but just not quite as 'tight'. People often talk about the music levels in Rayman - and they are magnificent. There are a couple of other memorable levels - the stealthy one with the laser beams was good. But Overall, Mario's levels are more memorable - the castles, airships and ghost houses just made a far bigger impact. Also, the map screen in NSMBU with the different paths, alternate exits and secrets was far more rewarding than the paintings and rooms in Rayman. What's more, the post game content in Mario is better than in Rayman. Just recycling the music levels again and putting a shitty filter over them felt weak and cheap. A really lazy and frustrating way to extend a game. Rather than requiring pin point accuracy and reflexs as should be the case in a platformer - they just made them fuzzy and difficult to see, thus making it more of a memory game than an actual skill based challenge. After the music levels, I was disappointed by this. Overall, I'd recommend getting all three platformers - and for different reasons. But out of the three, Mario and DK are definitely have the edge of Rayman. But if you were to score them out of ten, I'd give all three a 'nine'. So it's a close call. And none of them are bad, in fact all three are wonderful games and worth their place in your collection. That was amazing Oh and ^this. This is magnificent, and I'm pretty sure that's a unique experience that you can only get on Wii U! Hats off to the guys who pulled that off! Edited March 15, 2015 by Zechs Merquise Automerged Doublepost
Sheikah Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Even with filters on some of the levels, those music stages still require far more pinpoint accuracy and reflexes (more than NSMBU, which runs at a slower pace and you're not running constantly, since you can pause to reorient yourself and whatnot). If you don't jump right when they want you to, or strike an enemy just so, you're probably dead in those Rayman levels. The way it feels to jump is a preference really, but I don't think one feels worse than the other - it's just what you're used to or what you prefer. If you fall quicker from a jump or don't jump as far in one game relative to another then you become aware of this and adapt when you jump in relation to a platform. It's more how game developers design their levels around their characters - if Rayman can jump far, but the platforms are placed further apart (but just 'right' so precision is needed), then overall you get the feeling that the platforming feels more tight. That's the feeling I get much more with Rayman relative to NSMB. With NSMB, I always feel like I have more breathing space and am not as pressured to time my jumps so precisely. Regarding the filters on that music level, it was more of a challenge to react to the music than remember the course, I felt. Although the levels like ghost house, airship and whatnot were cool, it's that they've been repeated so many times now that it's hard to feel any excitement for them. The whole world structure with its miniboss that requires 3 hits, baby bowser in his little helicopter, toad houses, etc, are things we've seen many a time. It'd be nice for them to come up with new concepts and themes than keep going with the same thing. I agree that the Rayman Legends painting array was a more boring hub than the NSMBU map, but I can't shake that the map system and the similar structure it brings could be moved on from. At least, I wasn't particularly happy when it worked its way into NSM3DW. Edited March 15, 2015 by Sheikah
Jonnas Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 The idea that "floaty=bad" irks me. I'm all for having great physics in a 2D platformer, but a character having a higher... "buoyancy" just means you have to play him differently. If the game's level design serves that same buoyancy, then there's not much reason to say the game is worse because of it*. From what little I played Rayman Legends, the level design gels quite well with how the character controls. *(I understand if a person finds a specific character/game simply not fun to control, but merely saying "floaty" is not a good argument by itself. It's like me criticising Mario for having no traction, it's useless out of context.) Also, I don't think that Castle Rock level was hard. I played it in a store, and the TV's sound was really low, and I still managed to get through without much issue. It didn't make it any less fun, of course, Rayman Legends is a really fluid game, and I loved what little I played of it.
Clownferret Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 This conversation is all that is wrong with the Wii U... platformers, platformers and platformers!
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