Blade Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 I think just saying Nintendo doesnt produce anything new anymore is short sighted. Skyward Sword is a perfect example where Nintendo has shaked up a franchise and it is not just the motion controls either. I personally loved the game but a lot of people dislike it and have cried wanting a traditional serialised standard already done a 1000 times Zelda sequel. You just can't win.
Ashley Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 That's what Dazzy and I are getting at, a lot of the new IPs last gen didn't feel new, just re-skinned. Yeah Nintendo's games are long standing franchises but they contain elements that make them feel fresh and new. That's what it seems you're not getting about our point. I don't think either side is "not getting" anything. It's just differing opinions on what constitutes "new" and "fresh".
Sheikah Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) That's what Dazzy and I are getting at, a lot of the new IPs last gen didn't feel new, just re-skinned. Yeah Nintendo's games are long standing franchises but they contain elements that make them feel fresh and new. That's what it seems you're not getting about our point. Out of interest, how many out of the list have you played? Many like LittleBigPlanet, Journey, flow, Valkyria Chronicles, Heavy Rain and Demon's Souls feel very different to what was already out there. It would be very hard to argue that these are reskins; the gameplay is really rather unique. Also, regarding Skyward @Blade, I acknowledge they added motion controls but for me it's very hard to argue it was a huge shakeup to the series, or even that it made the series feel fresh. I mean, on a general playthrough what you were actually doing was pretty identical to previous games. You get your sidekick, you go into a dungeon, go through the whole small key/dungeon item/boss key/boss/heart container spiel. Grab many of the same pieces of equipment (with some new additions), get the extra bottles, nab the Master Sword after a few earlier dungeons... props to them laying off Ganondorf though. Turning the sword in the direction that aligns with the chink in the shield just wasn't going to make everything else seem fresh. :/ Reasonably enjoyable? Sure. But it kinda feels like you're going through the motions with this series now. As I say, I would love either new IPs or Resi 4 style shakeups (or perhaps even less dramatic, but a shakeup nonetheless) to take place. Something that makes you really excited to be a gamer again. I don't think either side is "not getting" anything. It's just differing opinions on what constitutes "new" and "fresh". Yep. I think some people are obviously happy with Nintendo's output, whereas some want more new stuff to go alongside it. Neither view is really wrong. Edited March 16, 2014 by Sheikah
Cube Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Sometimes, other elements of the game beyond the gameplay can make a game feel fresh. Uncharted was very lighthearted, with great dialogue and set pieces that were fun to play. It felt fresh to play because of elements beyond pure gameplay - the same for The Last of Us. The gameplay is very memorable to me because of the atmosphere. And on top of that, "new" and "fresh" gameplay elements and game design can also ruin a game - like Skyward Sword, which felt like a lightweight Zelda with some annoying elements added to it.
Grazza Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 And on top of that, "new" and "fresh" gameplay elements and game design can also ruin a game - like Skyward Sword, which felt like a lightweight Zelda with some annoying elements added to it. This exactly. I totally agree with those who say Skyward Sword was fresh and innovative. I'd even agree that the motion controls on their own were amazing. Not that I liked them, but I was technically "amazed" - no more so than in Wii Sports Resort, but that's the point really. Something that's amazing on its own does not necessarily tie-in with why we loved Zelda in the first place. The problem for me is that freshness/innovation is not really what's needed - not exactly. Maybe there's another word for it that I don't really have the vocabulary for, but to me the best games are the ones where they seemed like they put 100% effort into making it the best so far. Like Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker - with both of those games it seemed liked they'd sat down and thought about what would be the best overworld, tone, atmosphere, gameplay, controls etc. To me, that sort oft thing is what makes stand-out entries in any particular series, rather than innovation, as such.
dazzybee Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Journey and Heavy Rain were great games, but Little Big Planet?! Really? It was an awful platforming game with great scope for creativity, which many games have done before (maybe not in the platform genre), but did it matter when the core mechanic was so atrocious?! But with regards to last gen, Nintendo created a new ip in wii sports which forced sony and microsoft to add incredibly extensive peripherals to compete with it was the influential!! But Ashley is right, the argument is old, my main irritation is I have no problem with all the games you are mentioning, I like the variety in the industry. It was your constant bitching about Nintendo don't innovate and make derivative games which was a little strange. But who cares, I'll be playing Mario Kart 8 in May and you can't get more derivative than that! And it'll probably be my favourite game for the whole year on any platform!
Sheikah Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) And like I've said, I justified quite well why I think what I do about Nintendo; nothing strange about it. Dazzy, I've said this before, but you need to learn to deal with other people's views in a non-insulting manner. Calling people a 'nob' (surprised nothing came of that tbh) or other personal remarks remove credit from your points and put you in a bad light. It's very frustrating that several people on here are capable of explaining their views without resorting to such like kav, Blade and Pestneb, but then for the same barrage of words and tone to come from you. And that's the last of this from me. Edited March 16, 2014 by Sheikah
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 This exactly. I totally agree with those who say Skyward Sword was fresh and innovative. I'd even agree that the motion controls on their own were amazing. Not that I liked them, but I was technically "amazed" - no more so than in Wii Sports Resort, but that's the point really. Something that's amazing on its own does not necessarily tie-in with why we loved Zelda in the first place. The problem for me is that freshness/innovation is not really what's needed - not exactly. Agreed. Personally, the motion controls in Skyward Sword were a frustration and wasn't necessary for my enjoyment of the game - I'm more than happy to press A to swing a sword. I also acknowledge Nintendo do innovate, I just don't like the way they tack on these innovations onto well established games like Zelda and create an unnecessary gimmick. I would like to see Nintendo relax these 'innovations' and just remember what made their games so great - art direction, music, intelligence, humour... Fun - I for one am happy the Wii Motion controls are not at the fore-front of the Wii U playing style. I just hope that future big hits like Zelda U aren't further delayed because Nintendo want to include traditional controls as well as motion controls to the play style.
Retro_Link Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 New Bonus Round on Nintendo http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/zxgykg/bonus-round-nintendo-s-missing-piece- Pachter slamming Nintendo's decision making.
Goron_3 Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Agreed. Personally, the motion controls in Skyward Sword were a frustration and wasn't necessary for my enjoyment of the game - I'm more than happy to press A to swing a sword. I also acknowledge Nintendo do innovate, I just don't like the way they tack on these innovations onto well established games like Zelda and create an unnecessary gimmick. I would like to see Nintendo relax these 'innovations' and just remember what made their games so great - art direction, music, intelligence, humour... Fun - I for one am happy the Wii Motion controls are not at the fore-front of the Wii U playing style. I just hope that future big hits like Zelda U aren't further delayed because Nintendo want to include traditional controls as well as motion controls to the play style. The biggest problem with Skyward Sword wasn't the controls, it was the ridiculous pacing.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 New Bonus Round on Nintendo http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/zxgykg/bonus-round-nintendo-s-missing-piece- Pachter slamming Nintendo's decision making. LOOL, he really has it in for Iwata.
Serebii Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 New Bonus Round on Nintendo http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/zxgykg/bonus-round-nintendo-s-missing-piece- Pachter slamming Nintendo's decision making. He postulated the idea of getting EA to develop a Mario game. He put forth the QoL platform as if it was wearable tech when Iwata made clear that it wasn't wearable tech. For someone whose job it is to get the facts, provide analyses and put forth suggestions to investors, he sure does ignore facts and live in his own world. I mean hell, he seemed surprised that Iwata hasn't said the Wii U is dead. With software coming out over the next year, at least, that would cause irreparable damage to Nintendo. He has no business sense.
RedShell Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 "The GameBoy Advance just wasn't that sophisticated a control scheme." What the hell? Pachter might know about business, but he clearly knows sweet f.a. about video games, and even less about Nintendo. He's great entertainment value though.
Hero-of-Time Posted March 17, 2014 Author Posted March 17, 2014 What the hell? Pachter might know about business, but he clearly knows sweet f.a. about video games, and even less about Nintendo. He's great entertainment value though. I dunno, he said that Nintendo needed to release a Wii HD and if they waited too long it would be irrelevant on the market. Enter the Wii U. Dude says some rubbish but there are times where he has said stuff that was spot on. I found people tend to just pick and choose what they hear from Pachter.
Serebii Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 I dunno, he said that Nintendo needed to release a Wii HD and if they waited too long it would be irrelevant on the market. Enter the Wii U. Dude says some rubbish but there are times where he has said stuff that was spot on. I found people tend to just pick and choose what they hear from Pachter. Even a blind squirrel will occasionally find an acorn. The problem with Pachter is that his job is to secure short term profits for investors. Due to the way Nintendo works (Iwata focuses on game quality and long term health of the company), he hasn't been able to make money on them. Basically, Nintendo is contrary to everything he believes in. Hell, he says Nintendo should go mobile now. iOS App store made $26bn in revenue last year. Nintendo made $5.8bn in revenue last year. As such, they'd have to get 22.8% of the iOS App Store's revenue in order to reach the same point as they are at now. Now, consider the amount of developers on that platform. The money just isn't there unless you hit very big with a game like Flappy Birds, Angry Birds or Candy Crush Saga. It boggles the mind that people don't see this.
Hero-of-Time Posted March 17, 2014 Author Posted March 17, 2014 Even a blind squirrel will occasionally find an acorn. So basically you disregard any time he is right as you think it's just luck? Gotcha.
Serebii Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) So basically you disregard any time he is right as you think it's just luck? Gotcha. No. However he's wrong and idiotic far more often than he is correct. Seriously...he suggested Super Mario Bros 3 on iOS and claimed the GBA's control system was no better than mobile. Edited March 17, 2014 by Serebii
Zechs Merquise Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 No. However he's wrong and idiotic far more often than he is correct. Seriously...he suggested Super Mario Bros 3 on iOS and claimed the GBA's control system was no better than mobile. Too right! I've always thought he was a complete clown. He is wrong far more often than he is right. What's more, mobile gaming is a massive gamble, I read some figures that suggested only 1 in 10,000 apps are commercially successful. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/22/not_even_14m_users_can_save_4chan_chris_pooles_founders_startup/ Mobile gaming is fine for a quick diversion. But most types of games do not control well on mobile and I can't see Mario working on iPhone. You need a proper pad for something like that. Nintendo could release iPhone games, but they would have to be made for the iPhone, not just VC games with horrible inadequate touch controls. A selection of DK mine cart levels where you just touch to jump would work, but playing a full DK game on a mobile would be impossible. I think there will always be a place for dedicated handheld gaming.
Clownferret Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 I dunno, he said that Nintendo needed to release a Wii HD and if they waited too long it would be irrelevant on the market. Enter the Wii U. Dude says some rubbish but there are times where he has said stuff that was spot on. I found people tend to just pick and choose what they hear from Pachter. if you keep throwing darts at a board a few will hit the bullseye.
Hero-of-Time Posted March 17, 2014 Author Posted March 17, 2014 if you keep throwing darts at a board a few will hit the bullseye. How many of these are we gonna get in this thread? Personally I have no beef with the guy. I love his banter and enjoy watching the hatred he has for Iwata.
liger05 Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 How many of these are we gonna get in this thread? Personally I have no beef with the guy. I love his banter and enjoy watching the hatred he has for Iwata. Pachter does say some crap but everything his said about the Wii U from the time it was first revealed until now has pretty much been bang on. Actually initially he said it would sell out for the first 4 months so he was wrong on that prediction but other than that he said it would be a flop and thats what its been. Is he unfair on Iwata? I would say no considering Iwata is CEO and the company keeps losing money and failing to his sales targets. Which CEO wouldnt get criticism for doing such a poor job? I dont think Nintendo should go mobile but anyone who doesnt think there handheld market is being choked by Mobile is in cloud cookoo land and its only going to get worse.
Sheikah Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 Aside from not knowing how the product works, I think he's bang on about the Vitality sensor being a bad decision. These days most people want fitness trackers that hook up to their smartphone; I don't see this really doing much to boost sales or help with the Wii U take off. People don't want a separate device they have to pay a lot for. Regarding the mobile thing and how many apps fail - that's your average app, made from the ground up. This is an already extremely successful franchise that people love. Of course Mario on mobile would sell like hotcakes.
Serebii Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 You realise that the Vitality Sensor isn't the QoL platform, right?
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) How many of these are we gonna get in this thread? Personally I have no beef with the guy. I love his banter and enjoy watching the hatred he has for Iwata. If you suck on a tit hard enough, milk might just come out. Wahahaha! Edited March 17, 2014 by King_V
Sheikah Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 You realise that the Vitality Sensor isn't the QoL platform, right? To be honest, I don't really know or care what the jargon relating to their fitness plans is. I just think it's not the sort of thing they need to focus on.
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