Posted May 17, 2014 That's the reveal and reveal of various concepts, not the initial concept... So you're saying that Nintendo had an initial idea, found more ways to do things but we should expect them to not move past the initial idea? That just sticking to that is fine? Genuinely trying to understand your statement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 What have I missed today? @Serebii at the heart of it no doubt defending the indefensible as always? Just a guess. I'm very sorry if I'm wrong, watching the football. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 What have I missed today? The usual NDF tripe that happens on these boards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Wait, so if you did two players (one person on the TV and the other person on the gamepad), it's split screen on both screens? Holy fuck, I assumed for the longest time that each player would get a whole screen to themselves. Surely I wasn't the only one to assume this? Madness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Serebii never assumed this it seems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Wait, so if you did two players (one person on the TV and the other person on the gamepad), it's split screen on both screens? Holy fuck, I assumed for the longest time that each player would get a whole screen to themselves. Surely I wasn't the only one to assume this? Madness. I think the world and his wife thought each player would get a screen to themselves. In what universe did Nintendo think that this would be a useful feature or a good idea? Whyyyy would you need splitscreen on the GamePad? Fucking bizarre. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Surely the reason is that it is a power thing. The developers have said that mario kart is pushing the wii u to the limit (edge interview I think) so to be able to push out the full main screen and the game pad screen at the same time would be too much. Same reason that 2 game pad screens is hard. Should have made a more powerful console then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Having two players on the gamepad is almost completely useless. The only way it would be of any use, is if both players were using Pro controllers and the TV was being used by someone else so they had to use the gamepad as their main screen. I'm genuinely confused why an obvious feature like having each player have their own screen, wasn't included to the game. The gamepad clearly can do it. Surely the reason is that it is a power thing. The developers have said that mario kart is pushing the wii u to the limit (edge interview I think) so to be able to push out the full main screen and the game pad screen at the same time would be too much. I would have thought pushing two screens onto the gamepad would be taking up more power then just one. Also, Sonic Racing Transformed actually has each player having their own screen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 I think it just mirrors the screen by default though with dedicated hardware for it? Like another port on a graphics card. Having said that if sonic transformed did it there really is no excuse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/mario-kart-8-review#image=13 MSN State it's the best Mario Kart ever! 5/5! Awesome reading Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 http://tech.uk.msn.com/gaming/mario-kart-8-review#image=13 MSN State it's the best Mario Kart ever! 5/5! Awesome reading Nice to see the mainstream media giving it good reviews Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Surely the reason is that it is a power thing. The developers have said that mario kart is pushing the wii u to the limit (edge interview I think) so to be able to push out the full main screen and the game pad screen at the same time would be too much. That doesn't make any sense. The console is already creating the 2 screens in split screen. It would still be the same number of pixels to display whether showing a split screen or 1 whole screen and 2 different viewpoints are being displayed regardless of what screen they're showing on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Not to downplay the issue being discussed here, but I do find it kinda funny how people were recently having a go at Nintendo for focusing too much on local multiplayer over online, and now that we get a game from them where the superior way to play against others is online, people kick off about aspects of the local multiplayer. I would have thought pushing two screens onto the gamepad would be taking up more power then just one. Also, Sonic Racing Transformed actually has each player having their own screen.Nah, the split screen image on the GamePad is still just a single video stream. Having the GamePad show a different view to that of the TV screen would have a much greater impact on the system. Having said that if sonic transformed did it there really is no excuse.Well, let's not forget about the difference is visual quality between the two. Sonic racing was an OK looking game, but MK8 is on another level entirely. Hell, it's almost as if they're games from 2 different console generations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Not to downplay the issue being discussed here, but I do find it kinda funny how people were recently having a go at Nintendo for focusing too much on local multiplayer over online, and now that we get a game from them where the superior way to play against others is online, people kick off about aspects of the local multiplayer. Nah, the split screen image on the GamePad is still just a single video stream. Having the GamePad show a different view to that of the TV screen would have a much greater impact on the system. I'd argue that local is still better, in large part because of the lack of voice chat. Mario Kart is a very vocal game. And... Is it really? They're essentially two different cameras attached to the players. The GamePad would essentially just have to focus on one camera, rather than both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Can I just remind people that the initial concept for the Wii U GamePad was Off-TV play and this game, and those, use that feature. You mean a bit like having a dedicated handheld - hardly an innovation, Gameboy was off-TV play too. I can't possibly believe Off-TV play is anything but a happy (to some) accident; it's such a retarded idea to build a console around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 I'd argue that local is still better, in large part because of the lack of voice chat. Mario Kart is a very vocal game.I meant in terms of it being full screen and 60fps, instead of half a screen and (potentially) 30fps. And... Is it really? They're essentially two different cameras attached to the players. The GamePad would essentially just have to focus on one camera, rather than both.I think so, yeah. However I could be wrong, and I sure as hell couldn't explain it in any technical detail. @Dcubed, help! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) I meant in terms of it being full screen and 60fps, instead of half a screen and (potentially) 30fps. I think so, yeah. However I could be wrong, and I sure as hell couldn't explain it in any technical detail. @Dcubed, help! You called? Actually you're both right... kinda... Rendering a second image to the Gamepad would be the same in terms of how much the console is rendering, buuuutttt it would be harder for the console to pull off Gamepad 2nd screen rendering than it would for traditional splitscreen because the Wii U would have to render one full size 720p display AND a full size 480p display instead of two half 720p res displays. Personally I would've still liked to see them do it anyway (as well as 60FPS 3-4 player splitscreen) and just downgrade the graphcs as necessary. I HATED the FPS downgrade in MK Wii's 3-4 player mode (especially since MK DD pulled off a perfect 60FPS 4 player splitscreen on the GCN), it just felt terrible in comparison to 1-2 players Edited May 17, 2014 by Dcubed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Well, let's not forget about the difference is visual quality between the two. Sonic racing was an OK looking game, but MK8 is on another level entirely. Hell, it's almost as if they're games from 2 different console generations. Let's get real here. Sonic Racing was a launch game for the Wii U that was aimed at other platforms. It's by a third party who probably didn't have a lot of time to optimise the game for the Wii U. Two years ago. Of course Mario Kart is going to look better as it rightfully should, considering it's a flagship title for the system and the fact that it's being made by Nintendo, who designed the system. Sonic at least had interesting ideas. 5 player multiplayer, for example. Ideas that Nintendo haven't implemented into Mario Kart 8, for whatever reason. Whilst Sonic Racing may not be technically as good as Mario Kart 8 (obviously), it should still be commended for giving the genre a new lease of life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 That doesn't make any sense. The console is already creating the 2 screens in split screen. It would still be the same number of pixels to display whether showing a split screen or 1 whole screen and 2 different viewpoints are being displayed regardless of what screen they're showing on. It makes sense. As it is currently implemented the original screen buffer is taken, down sampled and sent to the gamepad in what I am sure must be hardware accelerated. To have one 1280 by 720 screen and another 854 by 480 screen showing something different would likely take more computational power. However as dcubed has suggested they could have just reduced the graphical fidelity to compensate as the did in the 3/4 player mode to take advantage of the gamepad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 17, 2014 Are people saying it takes too much power to show a different screen on the gamepad to the TV? I thought there were games that did this though? I'm certain Nintendoland does it for some games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 18, 2014 Not to downplay the issue being discussed here, but I do find it kinda funny how people were recently having a go at Nintendo for focusing too much on local multiplayer over online, and now that we get a game from them where the superior way to play against others is online, people kick off about aspects of the local multiplayer. I am mainly just shocked such an obvious feature was not included. I'm sure the game will be fantastic, but Nintendo really are shooting themselves in the foot with it as it's really not selling the gamepad's capabilities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 18, 2014 Both the COD games on the Wii U have the ability for one player to play solely on the pad and one player to play solely on the TV. The two players can go online together from the same Wii U - each with their own screen - and play in competitive multiplayer matches (with a cap of 18 or 12 players depending on which COD it is). I'm surprised you can't do this with Mario Kart - seems an odd omission, but not a game breaker. Maybe the game has been tooled up for a gamepad-less SKU? The problem with the gamepad, is it was based around a FAILED experiment with the GC-GBA connectivity. It never took off because it was too expensive and the experiences were too quirky and demanded too many people to be in the same room at the same time. Fast forward to now, it's still too expensive, the experiences are still quirky and there's no need to gather around the TV anymore as we all have broadband and we don't need to huddle around one screen at our mate's houses to play multi-player - gaming has moved on from that. To me it seems as if there is a group of people inside Nintendo who simply don't want to accept the reality of what they did with the Wii. A cheap, accessible, friendly console that could be enjoyed by everyone. Instead they follow it with a confusing, expensive and inaccessible console where the key features are so unintuitive games that do use them have to repeatedly remind you where to look and how to hold the pad! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 18, 2014 Let's get real here.Let's. Sonic Racing was a launch game for the Wii U that was aimed at other platforms.I know. It's by a third party who probably didn't have a lot of time to optimise the game for the Wii U.Yep. Two years ago.Correct. ... 5 player multiplayer, for example. Ideas that Nintendo haven't implemented into Mario Kart 8, for whatever reason.How about the very reason I was originally pointing out? Do you seriously reckon Nintendo couldn't get MK8 running in a 5 player mode if the game had graphics similar to those of SASRT? Expecting both super high quality visuals and 5 player is a big ask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 18, 2014 Meh quite frankly I couldn't give a shit and not going to bitch about the local multiplayer. I don't really care for it. It's going to be an amazing game, i'm sure of it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted May 18, 2014 If I'm not mistaken Mario kart 8 only outputs at 720p upscaled to 1080p right? So if the console can't even output the game in full HD, it's normal that it can't render two seperate screens at realtime. I guess they preferred the game to look fantastic, sacrifices needed to be made to achieve that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
