Cube Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 No matter how many arguments you make about either console/PC/handheld, the most important questions always boils down to: "Which one has the games you prefer?"
Oxigen_Waste Posted March 30, 2013 Author Posted March 30, 2013 https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/ The web store works pretty well (oddly, Microsoft had a really good web-based store, but a redesign of their website completely messed up the search, making it impossible to find anything). Yeah I use that often as I just fear the regular store. The old one worked so well! games like that See this is the whole problem right here. This is pure platform bias. You have just grouped a hugely different group of games into a single label and that's that. "games like that" is not an accurate descripition of the games described... a platformer, an RPG, 2 Survival Horrors, 1 Puzzler, 2 RTSs, 1 TBS, 1 4X,1 FPS and 1 Action RPG can never ever fall under the same umbrella of "games like that". These are completely different games from each other, be it in tone or genre! oO What the hell does "games like that" even mean? PC exclusive games? oO As for the Osmos and Dear Esther thing, don't be an ass... there's an audience for everything. You like the more classic formula blockbuster games like Infamous, Assassin's Creed or Cpt. Shepherd's Tales of space exploration and reaper termination with all their epic scale and soulless execution... I'd much rather have something with personality or something that pushes the limits of what the medium is. I think Osmos is a brilliantly executed pioneer in a blooming genre. And Dear Esther expanded the definition of gaming with it's interactive novel feel. Personality in a game goes a long way, for me. Those profitable games you mention, a lot of them have a subscription. They're mostly profitable because each individual pays an exorbitant sum over their playing life relative to the cost of people buying only the game on consoles. It's not like they have the majority of gamers worldwide playing them. The only one with a subscription is WoW. As for the rest... what? Of course they have the majority of gamers worldwide playing them! LoL alone has a monthly active player base of over 40 million people, with almost 80 million registered players. It's the most played game in the world by almost double the #2. COD is the only game that getting any significant number of players, on the consoles. The list is dominated by MOBAs, Diablo 3, Minecraft and MMOS. All on PC. Almost nobody plays on consoles in Southeast Asia (except the Japanese, obviously)... or Brazil for that matter! Most people don't want to play MMORPGs, let's be honest. Even though they globally have a lot of players, there's no doubt that overall in Europe most money in gaming is spent on consoles and handhelds relative to PC gaming. One need only look at the charts. It's more all eggs in one basket when you look at MMORPGs - lots of players divided between a few top long-running titles, relative to console gaming which has millions forking over cash for sequels released every 1-2 years. Game devs make their money in different ways here, and I'd still definitely say there's more money to be made in console gaming. What? Just because we hardcore gamers don't really enjoy MMORPGs it doesn't mean they're not immensely popular. Hell, after MOBAs I'd bet MMORPGs re the most popular genre! As for the rest... You G8s make me laugh. I'm going to paint you a picture of Europe you might not be familiarized with, at least that's not the Europe I know: apart from the whole Game Boy craze, I was always the weird kid around my parts because I was the console guy. You have no idea how outnumbered the console players are around here. I know 5 people with home consoles who use them. 6 if you count my brothers. This is spread out over 2 cities with a combined population of approximately 2 million people and over 26 years of life. Let it be noted I'm very socially active and I know a ton of people. Every single guy who's into gaming that I know except for Hellfire does all his gaming on their PCs. You think us normal countries can afford to live the way you guys do? We get paid 3 times less and things cost twice as much! You think anyone's gonna buy a £60 game(yeah that's how much games cost here... sucks having a small market) when they make £400/month?? Everybody plays on the PC! And guess what? 90% of people will obviously be pirating the game. Which is why the F2P micro transaction model is becoming so popular... Europe is more than Scandinavia and the big 3, us folk in the other countries can't live the way you do. You don't even represent one third of the population, dude, remember that! The European reality you are experiencing is a very, VERY priviledged one! Considering the global videogame market is valued at 65 billion$ I highly doubt the console market is more profitable, but alas, google is failing me. Anyway, the console market needs a collapse. It's a fucking olygopoly, for christ's sake... Plus, I'd imagine quite a number of PC gamers have a console, but I don't think anywhere near as many console gamers have a proper gaming rig PC. You don't need a gaming rig for most of the games mentioned. At all... they're pretty much all low-spec games. Or optimized to run on a huge variety of hardwares, like Diablo 3 (which looks gorgeous on a gaming rig but can be played smoothly on most laptops (using my brother's 400$ laptop as an example). This entire post was an excercise in derivative ramblings, I now realize. :P You are consistently the most ridiculous person on the planet, if we're being honest. Have some fun making a PC by yourself, Larry The Cable Guy. Oh yeah and those prices are accurate. Personally I prefer the relative simplicity of consoles. Though I might be tempted to buy a gaming PC when I can legally play Nintendo games on them. I keep hearing from PC guys that I should ditch consoles for a gaming PC, because you can play games cheaper and in full 1080p and 60 fps and all that. And yet, if you only gamed on a PC this gen you'd have missed out on the likes of: God Of War, Uncharted, KillZone, Little Big Planet, Demon Souls, InFamous, Yazuza, MGS4, Resistance, Heavy Rain, Journey, Valkyria Chronicles, 3D Dot Game Heroes, Vanquish, Bayonetta, FF13, Super Mario Galaxy, NSMBWii, Skyward Sword, No More Heroes, Monster Hunter Tri, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Metroid Prime 3, Metroid: Other M, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Xenoblade, Sonic Colours, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, Little Kings Story, Sin and Punishment, Goldeneye 007, and many more. And that's not even mentioning handhelds. I don't doubt PC gaming has a lot going for it, but I wouldn't just turn my back on all the great Nintendo exclusive games just for the advantage of being able to play other games cheaply and at high specs. All the bolded games are perfectly legal to play on your PC as long as you own them. That goes for all emulators, too. As long as you own the game you're emulating, it's legal. Also, Dolphin is a better Wii than an actual Wii. And a better NGC than the NGC. As for the WiiU, that's a different song, for now. The handhelds don't really enter this discussion, if we're being honest. They exist on a separate segment. No matter how many arguments you make about either console/PC/handheld, the most important questions always boils down to: "Which one has the games you prefer?" I still think the PC just completely wins, this past gen. With a gaming PC and a PS3, you have legal access to everything except the Fable, Halo and Gears games. Truth be told, they're not that amazing, either.
Hogge Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 PC + PS3 would be pretty much all you need unless you were the biggest Halo/Gears Of War/Fable enthusiast ever. Or Forza, Fable, Alan Wake and a whole bunch of others. IMHO, the Xbox 360 has far more interresting exclusives. PS4 has like, Uncharted... Uncharted 2 and... err... Uncharted 3. Oh, and Gran Turismo. Only it's a bit open to debate whether it's better than Forza or not. Personally, I'm a console gamer and I love Nintendo. My PC has been getting a lot of games in the last few years, but that's only because I don't want to pay for an Xbox Gold subscription. If all the multiplatform titles were to come out for the Wii U, I'd buy them and play them there. I'm super cross that Battlefield 4 won't get a Wii U release. I can however agree with you that certain PC cases are better looking. I love my brushed steel Acer. I'm probably reusing the case for my next computer. Regarding the supperior PC compatibility... yeah, right! The PC isn't even compatible with all PC titles. I completely adore Need for Speed: High Stakes, but I haven't had a computer that can run it properly since the Win98 PC I originaly bought it for. I always get weird graphical glitches, regardless if I run it in compatibility mode or download special haxx patches. Plus that consoles last forever. I've had many, many consoles over the year and the only one that's ever broken was my Dreamcast, which probably has a worn out laser. When it comes to the PC on the other hand... My laptops motherboard MELTED when I did my final thesis and my current PC was in for repairs just a few months ago... just weeks after the guarantee ran out. I was very much in to modding my games a bunch of years back. GTA with all the cool cars and guns I wanted was fun. I just think that consoles are far more laid back and "special". They feel alive when you're sitting in your sofa with the dedicated control unit in your hand and displayed on the big screen. On the PC it somehow feels more calculated and lifeless.
Cube Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Those PC games may be good, but they simply don't appeal to me (for different reasons). The Witcher 2 is supposedly one of the "best" PC gams and so far I don't like it. So far, my gaming PC has been mostly for console ports. The main other one is Star Trek Online. PS4 has like, Uncharted... Uncharted 2 and... err... Uncharted 3. Oh, and Gran Turismo. Only it's a bit open to debate whether it's better than Forza or not. Uncharted games, inFamous games, Killzone games, God of War games, Heavy Rain, Demon's Souls, Flower, Journey, The Unfinishe Swan Gran Turismo, LittleBigPlanet games, WipeOut, Resistance Games, MGS4, Motorstorm games, Ratchet & Clank games, SOCOM 4 (with one of the best soundtracks in video games), War/Starhawk, Tokyo Jungle. And upcoming ones like The Last of Us, Beyond, Dust 514, Puppeteer, Rain, Tales of Xillia. Plus possible games like Gran Turismo 6 and The Last Guardian.
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 All the bolded games are perfectly legal to play on your PC as long as you own them. That goes for all emulators, too. As long as you own the game you're emulating, it's legal. Also, Dolphin is a better Wii than an actual Wii. And a better NGC than the NGC. I don't know if this is actually true or a classic case of misinformation. I've heard people argue for both sides, some claiming it's legal and other's saying it isn't. Does anyone know for sure?
Dcubed Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 The problem with PC gaming in general is that it's a hassle. Most people have their PCs away from their main TV/Sound system, so if you want the best experience, it's a PITA to set it up (not even getting into installing drivers and such) And even then, as an owner of an upper mid-range PC (Radion 7890 1GB edition), the difference in graphical quality isn't even that big. Even when switching from max settings to low, I hardly see a difference at all! I don't generally like playing games on PC because it's a hassle to set up and in its normal setup (not hooked up to my main TV, with comfy sofa etc) it's an uncomfortable experience. I'm not keen on playing my games on a desk (even with controller in hand) and I can't be arsed to move it into my main game room every time I want to play properly (and for what? A very minor boost in graphics? Hell I'm a Nintendo fan, I don't give a toss about graphics :p ) It's a shame cause there's lots of cool indie games I'd like to play, like Antichamber or Stealth Bastard, but I'd much rather play those on a console (or handheld!) because its a much more convinient and comfortable experience (never mind all the cool stuff they could do with Wii U and 3DS versions!)
Cube Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 I don't know if this is actually true or a classic case of misinformation. I've heard people argue for both sides, some claiming it's legal and other's saying it isn't. Does anyone know for sure? If you rip the game yourself, it's legal. Downloading it isn't.
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 If you rip the game yourself, it's legal. Downloading it isn't. Which method is more commonly used in conjunction with the Dolphin Emulator?
pratty Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 I don't know if this is actually true or a classic case of misinformation. I've heard people argue for both sides, some claiming it's legal and other's saying it isn't. Does anyone know for sure? I read somewhere that a second copy is only legal if it is "necessary", which is vague to say the least. Also if we conclude it's ethical to run a copy of software you legally own, then isn't also legally owning the hardware you're emulating the ethical thing to do? I still think the PC just completely wins, this past gen. With a gaming PC and a PS3, you have legal access to everything except the Fable, Halo and Gears games. Truth be told, they're not that amazing, either. The PC might well be the best overall gaming platform, but that doesn't mean the other hardware isn't worth owning, even if we exclude the Wii, the PS3 and to a lesser extent the 360 are still necesassry to play several worthwhile games. I think there are pros and cons to both approaches, like Cube said it just depends on the games you're into and what you value. On the emulation of Wii games, if everyone played their Wii games (copies or originals) on their PCs, then would Nintendo even continue to make games, without having their own platform? Even if Nintendo continued to make their games, they or somebody would still need to make the necessary hardware to interface with their motion games, such as sensor bars and wii-motes, a "Wii-kit" so to speak. At which point a market might develop where people just want a cheaper, albeit lower spec option of a "Wii-kit" that will plug into their TV, without the expense of a gaming PC, and we'll be back where we started with the Wii.
Jonnas Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) After the initial investment that was getting my current high end PC, I now have a new technique... ever since I bought the new one I've been saving 20€ every month in a special box. After 5 years that'll be 1200€, which is more than enough to either buy a new PC or inject some new life into your old (not that old, but 5 years is usually enough for it to need some work, and if that's not the case you just save the money for later or partially use it for something else. As for the whole "get cheap games, not recent ones" mentality, I'm exactly the same, and as far as that goes, no platform even comes close to the level of cheapness you get on PC. Unless you just need to have a physical copy for collecting purposes, of course. :P I agree about the cheapness thing. In fact, I keep forgetting to get Steam, even though there's absolutely no reason for me to not have it (Except for finding time to play games and stuff) But I don't need to spend more money on the PC than my initial investment just to play the more demanding games. My laptop was bought 3 years ago for 300€ and it works just fine for me, I can even play recent games like Amnesia and Portal 2. Anything bigger than that, I'll wait (because I'll have to buy a new one eventually, anyway) I really should've made this point clearer. True, they are simpler. Although in all honesty, if you do have a high end PC with updated drivers, it's also incredibly straightforward... and as for the install I'm gonna have to be the asshole here, but c'mon... (apart from the Wii which has no install) the consoles take even longer than the PCs to install, and you end up having to do it most of the time just to make the console acceptably quiet (360) or because you're forced to (PS3). I don't really see which part of going on steam and pressing install is that stressing... It's all about how you set it up... 80% of my pc gaming experience consists of picking up the 360 or the CCP, depending on game/mood, sitting on the couch and just playing. That's it... apart from some complicated older stuff (which are very few, nowadays), that's pretty much it. I just turn the controller on and that's it, I'm ready to play 1 second later. The whole "complicated" thing is completely blown out of proportion, it has become increasingly more intuitive as time has passed and it's now at a point where it's just not complicated at all anymore. 1. From personal experience, the PC's ability to run games has always been unusual. I've had older games that couldn't run on my PC for unusual or unspecified reasons, even though they weren't demanding (I'm talking about games from 2004/2005, here). For me, PCs will always be cumbersome in the field of practicality. 2. Regarding longer install times, I didn't know that the PS3 and the X360 had such long install times. I don't own either (only playing them at other opportunities), and considering people were complaining about the Wii U's update times, I assumed things were fast for the PS3 and X360, too. As much as I love portable consoles, it always makes me incredibly sad/frustrated to see that their repertoires mostly consist of lesser entries in big franchises or remakes/ports. I mean, c'mon... Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks? Metroid Prime Hunters? These aren't bad games, but they're the lowest common denominator among their respective series... And on the Sony side of things it's even worse... oO Of course, there's always those series whose portable entries are actually better than their home console counterparts like Fire Emblem, but sadly those are the minorities... and as much as I like quirky charming little games like Rythm Heaven, Phoenix Wright, Wario Ware, Loco Roco, Patapon or Professor Layton, it just doesn't feel the same as playing a "true" game. That said, I pretty much have every portable ever launched since the original Game Boy, except for the Neo Geo ones and the Vita (which I will buy as soon as it gets a price drop). (I realise that this is going a bit off-topic, so I will just say that it's all down to personal opinion. I'm a firm believer that Twilight Princess was a mess of a game, and that PH and ST are both better than that. ST also makes a good case for being as good as, if not better than, Skyward Sword. MP Hunters was just a spin-off, and games like Zero Mission and Fusion are better than Prime 2&3. I'll also take quirky, small games over most of the predictable big budget games we see on home consoles. In fact, even PCs are better than home consoles at finding that sort of game. But my original point was still about sheer practicality. Sure, home consoles may have a lot of good stuff, but portables are still the ones I play the most) You think anyone's gonna buy a £60 game(yeah that's how much games cost here... sucks having a small market) when they make £400/month?? Everybody plays on the PC! And guess what? 90% of people will obviously be pirating the game. Which is why the F2P micro transaction model is becoming so popular... Europe is more than Scandinavia and the big 3, us folk in the other countries can't live the way you do. You don't even represent one third of the population, dude, remember that! The European reality you are experiencing is a very, VERY priviledged one! Dude, Euros are not Pounds Most games cost 60€, not 70€. Also, your previous points about PC gaming being dominant around here, even though they sound like anecdotal evidence from a small reference pool, are very true. PC gaming is more accessible and even more socially acceptable. Just wanted to confirm that, for the purposes of this discussion. Edited March 30, 2013 by Jonnas
Guy Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Using a Mac kind of disqualifies me from most PC gaming, but at least it allows me access to most of the lower spec indie games via Steam OS X or boot camp. WOW is also compatible for when I occasionally feel the need to scratch that itch. Maybe I'll gravitate more towards PC gaming in future, it may eventually become inevitable, but I'm pretty good with consoles for now. I'd certainly like to see consoles adopt the Steam model for digital distribution since console digital distribution right now is stuck behind a ridiculously high money wall.
MoogleViper Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Lots of reasons, really. Price, convenience, simplicity. The cost of a good PC may or may not be exaggerated, but a console only costs about £150-200. Plus, I'm pretty sure you'd have to build your own to get good value, which not everyone knows how to do. But you'd probably spend £400-500 on a standard PC anyway. So add the £200 for the console and you've got £600-700. You could get a pretty good gamin PC for that or less. And you'd have a decent PC to do all of your other PC stuff as well. I prefer PC, it's easier for me as it's always on. I'd say the argument comes down to this (excluding all of the misinformed arguments such as price and compatibility). PC: Better graphics/spec Modding community More versatile Cheaper games Consoles: Easy to hook up to TV Better for offline multiplayer No worried for those with little PC knowledge And then as @Cube said, it comes down to which has games you prefer. Although I'd say the PC has far more exclusive than the consoles. Also the indie game market. Consoles do have a few good AAA exclusives though (Fable, Yakuza, Uncharted...).
Sheikah Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) @Oxigen_Waste, like I said, you need only look at charts to see that console and handheld games are always dominating the charts not only in the UK but also in Europe. By a long shot too. If you're going to say that the figures are due to 'nearly all PC gamers pirating' then you'd have to start making up figures for PC sales which pretty much eliminates any chance of a discussion. There are some really popular PC games but that doesn't negate the fact that console gaming is much more popular, at least legally. And to say that the UK market is an isolated oddity whereas your experience in Portugal is reflective of Europe is pretty much false when you look at EU sales. Portugal must be very much the odd one out. Edited March 30, 2013 by Sheikah
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 ... quirky charming little games like ... Phoenix Wright ... just doesn't feel the same as playing a "true" game. Heretic! Obviously a high end PC is going to look and play better than a console running the same game (or modded version of it), but what i like about the console is that you know that you can buy the game, and play it when you get it home instantly, without faffing around, and as the console ages, the game is going to continue to play the same way. Plus for online games, you know that everyone is on the same playing field, with the same equipment (i don't really care so much about this, but it's an arguement i've heard). If i had a £1500 gaming pc, i would sure as hell play games on it (they are often cheaper than console games), but i do not, so it's a console for me! EDIT: I actually bought an Xbox because i couldn't play the game i bought on my laptop. I got Just Cause 2 off steam after playing the demo and loving it so much i bought the whole game. But after faffing for around 2 weeks trying to get it to a playable level on my laptop, i relented and went out and bought an Xbox and JC2 to play on it. Best £250 i ever spent. This pretty much sums it up for me. I've run into hassle with PC gaming more times than I care to remember. However, I do see the pros of PC gaming and am currently getting more into it. I plan on getting a gaming-oriented laptop in the foreseeable future.
Daft Posted March 30, 2013 Posted March 30, 2013 Or Forza, Fable, Alan Wake and a whole bunch of others. IMHO, the Xbox 360 has far more interresting exclusives. PS4 has like, Uncharted... Uncharted 2 and... err... Uncharted 3. Oh, and Gran Turismo. Only it's a bit open to debate whether it's better than Forza or not.
Deathjam Posted March 31, 2013 Posted March 31, 2013 Jesus that is a beautiful case. You have? Or Forza, Fable, Alan Wake and a whole bunch of others. IMHO, the Xbox 360 has far more interresting exclusives. PS4 has like, Uncharted... Uncharted 2 and... err... Uncharted 3. Oh, and Gran Turismo. Only it's a bit open to debate whether it's better than Forza or not. Plus that consoles last forever. I've had many, many consoles over the year and the only one that's ever broken was my Dreamcast, which probably has a worn out laser. When it comes to the PC on the other hand... My laptops motherboard MELTED when I did my final thesis and my current PC was in for repairs just a few months ago... just weeks after the guarantee ran out. There's ya problem right there. Most gadgets these days aren't built to last. Expect that machine to konk out on you as soon as that guarantee runs out. Make it yourself so you know whats inside. Really helps me when trying to figure out what went wrong and if I can fix it. The problem with PC gaming in general is that it's a hassle. Most people have their PCs away from their main TV/Sound system, so if you want the best experience, it's a PITA to set it up (not even getting into installing drivers and such) I don't generally like playing games on PC because it's a hassle to set up and in its normal setup (not hooked up to my main TV, with comfy sofa etc) it's an uncomfortable experience. I'm not keen on playing my games on a desk (even with controller in hand) and I can't be arsed to move it into my main game room every time I want to play properly (and for what? A very minor boost in graphics? Hell I'm a Nintendo fan, I don't give a toss about graphics :p ) Most games this generation, haven't even been designed with the PC in mind, only as an afterthough (GTAIV) so they don't even take advantages of the platform in the graphics and engine department. Here's what's possible with some more adventurous developers: Hi res screenshots from hi-end gaming machines.
Oxigen_Waste Posted April 1, 2013 Author Posted April 1, 2013 Jesus that is a beautiful case. You have? Indeed I do. That's my baby's case. It's called the Bitfenix Prodigy, it comes in Black or White, and it's small form factor without needing to sacrifice any power. I'm rocking it with an i7-3770K, HD7970, 16GB RAM and full-on water cooling to make sure it runs as silently as possible. It's a dream machine, petite but incredibly powerfull. ------------------------------------------------ Big thumbs up to Hogge for out-asshole-ing me.
Zell Posted April 9, 2013 Posted April 9, 2013 Stumbled into this video and found it quite interesting. I'm not a PC gamer and I don't really know much about technical specs so it would be good to know what more knowledgeable people think of this. I do see myself buying a desktop PC within the next 12 months would obviously use it for some gaming, the question for me would me how much I should spend to get as much bang for my buck.
Recommended Posts